Who is the best midfielder of the 21st century?

[Cleansweep17]

Geelong had a few contenders for best finals players those seasons. Despite relatively lean grand finals 2007 and 2009, on overall finals series I'd have GAJ marginally on top those years. 2008 probably second to Hodge like the Norm Smith. 2010 second or third to Swan and Pendlebury.

What makes it harder is that I believe now the GF has 1.5 times vote weighting. Due to Garys 07 and 09 GFs being average I don’t think he would him them. This also makes Hodge the clear winner in 2008 and Gary not close in 2010 since he didn’t even play in the GF.

 

[H00t]

What makes it harder is that I believe now the GF has 1.5 times vote weighting. Due to Garys 07 and 09 GFs being average I don’t think he would him them. This also makes Hodge the clear winner in 2008 and Gary not close in 2010 since he didn’t even play in the GF.

GAJ wins it in 2008. Would have got votes in his first 2 games where as Hodge wouldn’t have.

Not that it really matters anyway. It’s a silly award to attempt to judge any sort of greatness on. Alongside the Norm Smith. A nice medal to win but that’s about it.

 

[Fadge]

GAJ wins it in 2008. Would have got votes in his first 2 games where as Hodge wouldn’t have.

Not that it really matters anyway. It’s a silly award to attempt to judge any sort of greatness on. Alongside the Norm Smith. A nice medal to win but that’s about it.

Indeed.

Look at the honor roll:
J. Kennedy (losing Grand Finalist)
Martin
Sidebottom (losing Grand Finalist)
Macrae (losing Grand Finalist)
Dangerfield
Walsh (losing Prelim Finalist)

I had to google to confirm Macrae and Dangerfield, and tipping most wouldn't recall Kennedy and Sidebottom off the top of their head.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Indeed.

Look at the honor roll:
J. Kennedy (losing Grand Finalist)
Martin
Sidebottom (losing Grand Finalist)
Macrae (losing Grand Finalist)
Dangerfield
Walsh (losing Prelim Finalist)

I had to google to confirm Macrae and Dangerfield, and tipping most wouldn't recall Kennedy and Sidebottom off the top of their head.

So you think being the best finals player and best player in the GF don’t mean anything? Wow

Lucky you aren’t in charge, AFL would be a round robin

 

[Cleansweep17]

GAJ wins it in 2008. Would have got votes in his first 2 games where as Hodge wouldn’t have.

Not that it really matters anyway. It’s a silly award to attempt to judge any sort of greatness on. Alongside the Norm Smith. A nice medal to win but that’s about it.

Players would disagree, it’s literally what they play for. H&A is just a qualifier, finals are where it’s at.

Ask Lachie Neale whether he’d want to trade his Brownlow for the NS in the most recent GF. Bad GF performances haunt players and great ones are where legends are made, in every sport really.

 

[STPer18]

Ask Lachie Neale whether he’d want to trade his Brownlow for the NS in the most recent GF. Bad GF performances haunt players and great ones are where legends are made, in every sport really.

Reckon guys like Buckley and Ablett Snr would trade their NS in for a 0 disposal WoG performance provided their teams got over the line and won the premiership.

 

[RonnieRaven]

GAJ wins it in 2008. Would have got votes in his first 2 games where as Hodge wouldn’t have.

Not that it really matters anyway. It’s a silly award to attempt to judge any sort of greatness on. Alongside the Norm Smith. A nice medal to win but that’s about it.

I love the concept and admire the winners but it can’t be the sandwich when judging best of, delicious home made mayo though.
Only 80 odd players have a chance of winning it every year

 

[Fadge]

So you think being the best finals player and best player in the GF don’t mean anything? Wow

Lucky you aren’t in charge, AFL would be a round robin

Tipping you wouldn't have been able to name many of the winners outside of Martin off the top of your head...

I'm pretty sure Kennedy, Sidebottom, Macrae and Walsh would have preferred to be the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even 12th best player in the premiership team, that being awarded the best player of the finals series in a team that didn't win the flag.

When I'm reflecting on the 2023 finals series in 10 years, I'm thinking if Hill, De Goey, Pendlebury. Not Walsh.

Similarly the 2021 finals series. Gawn and Petracca. Not Macrae.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Reckon guys like Buckley and Ablett Snr would trade their NS in for a 0 disposal WoG performance provided their teams got over the line and won the premiership.

If both those guys had their time again they wouldn’t have left their original clubs.

And no players don’t like participation awards. If we gave Nic Nat a premiership medal do you think he’d value it? Don’t think so.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Tipping you wouldn't have been able to name many of the winners outside of Martin off the top of your head...

I'm pretty sure Kennedy, Sidebottom, Macrae and Walsh would have preferred to be the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even 12th best player in the premiership team, that being awarded the best player of the finals series in a team that didn't win the flag.

When I'm reflecting on the 2023 finals series in 10 years, I'm thinking if Hill, De Goey, Pendlebury. Not Walsh.

Similarly the 2021 finals series. Gawn and Petracca. Not Macrae.

Ok, then what you are actually saying is you don’t value a losing Gary Ayers award. Which is fair enough. But a flag one is different.

Bit rich though considering pies supporters have gone nuts over Pendles last Qtr in the GF. But then you suddenly don’t care about a whole finals series or GF?

 

[Cleansweep17]

I love the concept and admire the winners but it can’t be the sandwich when judging best of, delicious home made mayo though.
Only 80 odd players have a chance of winning it every year

It’s the mayo, and it puts players above others because of it.

I mean the Dusty v Danger debate ended in 2019 when Danger s**t the bed in the prelim and Dusty won another Gary Ayers medal and Norm Smith.

 

[Fadge]

Ok, then what you are actually saying is you don’t value a losing Gary Ayers award. Which is fair enough. But a flag one is different.

Bit rich though considering pies supporters have gone nuts over Pendles last Qtr in the GF. But then you suddenly don’t care about a whole finals series or GF?

Now Falcon, yes I have commented on Pendles' last quarter in the Grand Final.

I have also commented on Hill's Grand Final (and Qualifying Final).

I have also commented on De Goey's finals series.

Last year I commented on Selwood's first half of the Grand Final.

The list goes on.

People don't really give a rat's toss bag about who is awarded an individual award in a team game. It's the sum of all parts that result in the ultimate prize.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

GAJ easily.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

There is only one answer, it's obviously GAJ. Close the thread.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Now Falcon, yes I have commented on Pendles' last quarter in the Grand Final.

I have also commented on Hill's Grand Final (and Qualifying Final).

I have also commented on De Goey's finals series.

Last year I commented on Selwood's first half of the Grand Final.

The list goes on.

People don't really give a rat's toss bag about who is awarded an individual award in a team game. It's the sum of all parts that result in the ultimate prize.

Look up a guy called Michael Jordan and come back to me

 

[Fadge]

Look up a guy called Michael Jordan and come back to me

Is that a sport where there are 5 players from each team on the court at any one time?

You might as well have cited Jack Nicklaus.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Is that a sport where there are 5 players from each team on the court at any one time?

You might as well have cited Jack Nicklaus.

Look up Messi then who just ended the debate between him and Ronaldo

 

[Cleansweep17]

Is that a sport where there are 5 players from each team on the court at any one time?

You might as well have cited Jack Nicklaus.

Also Lebron v Jordan is very similar to GAJ vs Dusty.

One dominates all the H&A awards, has less flags and greater consistency and the other dominates finals, has more flags and a better peak (including finals). They couldn’t be more polar opposite.

Most people say Jordan is better.

 

[Fadge]

Look up Messi then who just ended the debate between him and Ronaldo

The debate was allegedly won when he led his team to the World Cup win.

Do you think there would have been any different view if he was only rated the second best player of the tournament behind Mbappe?

 

[Fadge]

Also Lebron v Jordan is very similar to GAJ vs Dusty.

One dominates all the H&A awards, has less flags and greater consistency and the other dominates finals, has more flags and a better peak (including finals). They couldn’t be more polar opposite.

Most people say Jordan is better.

You are kidding yourself.

Comparing Martin to Jordan.

LOLOLOLOL

 

[Cleansweep17]

The debate was allegedly won when he led his team to the World Cup win.

Do you think there would have been any different view if he was only rated the second best player of the tournament behind Mbappe?

Ok Tom Brady then?

The evidence is all around you. Are you just going to disregard every team sport in the world to prove your point?

 

[Cleansweep17]

You are kidding yourself.

Comparing Martin to Jordan.

LOLOLOLOL

Where exactly? That’s literally what happened

And people do think Jordan is better than Lebron specifically because of his finals record despite having an inferior H&A record. Maybe you are kidding yourself.

 

[Fadge]

Where exactly? That’s literally what happened

And people do think Jordan is better than Lebron specifically because of his finals record despite having an inferior H&A record. Maybe you are kidding yourself.

Really?

Despite Jordan having won 5 league MVP's to LeBron's 4?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Really?

Despite Jordan having won 5 league MVP's to LeBron's 4?

And All star team which is the equivalent to AAs?

19 Lebron v 14 Jordan

You use AAs to primarily judge how good players are right? You must be a Lebron guy then. (Which is the minority btw)

 

[Fadge]

See, Ablett Jnr has 10 x Brownlows/Coaches Awards/League MVP's spread across 5 different seasons (would have been 13 if not for a season ending injury in round 15 2014) to go with his 6 x club best and fairests and 8 All-Australians.

Martin has 3 x Brownlow/Coaches Award/League MVP, spread across 1 season, to go with his 2 x club best and fairests and 4 x All-Australians.

It's like comparing Roger Federer with Lleyton Hewitt.