Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[carlton_99]

He must be imaging again.

To be fair, I did write Heeney and it autocorrected to Bontempelli.

Nonetheless, all the data was there in the original post #5415.

Daicos also 'had Bont covered at the same age'...

Yes I must be "imaging" you writing a post you wrote

 

[Carringbush2010]

No i don't think so. Carlton still better we are your grand final lord and masters after all!

Most pundits and footy heads alike compare clubs in the same competition you think what you like if it makes you feel better.

 

[Robertio]

There have actually lots of comments when that article has been previously posted.

1. Questioning who were regarded as best 22 for both teams. I mean, it makes a pretty big difference if Silvagni was or wasn't included for Carlton, for example. That question went unanswered.

2. I also shared some data around the clear best 18 players missing large chunks of games - that is, more than 6 games. The only CLEAR best 18 player Carlton had miss more than 6 games was Cerra with 11. Docherty may be included at a stretch with 22 missed games. So that's two players. Best 18 Collingwood players who missed more than 6 games were McStay (18), Mitchell (17), Mihocek (12), De Goey (10) and Elliott (8). Cox (7) is in the same boat as Docherty as fringe best 18. Again, 'nothing to see here from the Carlton folk'.

So any other data you want to blindly share, without understanding it yourself, that you're going to accuse other posters of ignoring?

Every club has injuries but the fact is Carlton had a lot more than the Pies, a good role player is just as important than a top 6 player and remember we were 2nd when De Koning went down and seems you've forgotten all about him.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes I must be "imaging" you writing a post you wrote

Posts a false claim that rabbit averages as many hard ball gets as Bont and Petracca, challenged, then questions the comprehension of others

 

[Fadge]

Every club has injuries but the fact is Carlton had a lot more than the Pies, a good role player is just as important than a top 6 player and remember we were 2nd when De Koning went down and seems you've forgotten all about him.

'A good role player is just as important as a top 6 player....'

So losing Silvagni was just as impactful to Carlton as losing Cripps, or Weitering, or Curnow would have been'?

Notwithstanding the fact you've highlighted how much Carlton fell away when they lost De Koning for 6 matches...

Carlton being second on the ladder midway through the year was more about the fact they'd already played 3 games against North and Richmond than it was about them being one of the better teams in the comp...

 

[carlton_99]

Posts a false claim that rabbit averages as many hard ball gets as Bont and Petracca, challenged, then questions the comprehension of others

Rinse and repeat

 

[Arr0w]

So Carlton were better in 2024 and had more injuries?

Oh boy

 

[Pistol Night]

Every club has injuries but the fact is Carlton had a lot more than the Pies, a good role player is just as important than a top 6 player and remember we were 2nd when De Koning went down and seems you've forgotten all about him.

Stop talking shit. You didn’t have “a lot more”. We both had around 12-14 on our injured lists mid season. The difference was we didn’t drop our lips and use it as an excuse. We actually slumped when a few players started filtering back into the side. I’ve never seen a side sook as much about injuries as Carlton 2024

 

[Arr0w]

Stop talking shit. You didn’t have “a lot more”. We both had around 12-14 on our injured lists mid season. The difference was we didn’t drop our lips and use it as an excuse. We actually slumped when a few players started filtering back into the side. I’ve never seen a side sook as much about injuries as Carlton 2024

Some context, the usual suspects make claims like "there they go again, blaming the draw, injuries and umpiring decisions"

Then use the same factors to justify why one side finishes higher than the other

 

[carlton_99]

Stop talking shit. You didn’t have “a lot more”. We both had around 12-14 on our injured lists mid season. The difference was we didn’t drop our lips and use it as an excuse. We actually slumped when a few players started filtering back into the side. I’ve never seen a side sook as much about injuries as Carlton 2024

Come on mate there were plenty of Pies fans bringing up injuries in this thread during the season

 

[Robertio]

'A good role player is just as important as a top 6 player....'

So losing Silvagni was just as impactful to Carlton as losing Cripps, or Weitering, or Curnow would have been'?

Notwithstanding the fact you've highlighted how much Carlton fell away when they lost De Koning for 6 matches...

Carlton being second on the ladder midway through the year was more about the fact they'd already played 3 games against North and Richmond than it was about them being one of the better teams in the comp...

NFI

 

[Robertio]

Stop talking shit. You didn’t have “a lot more”. We both had around 12-14 on our injured lists mid season. The difference was we didn’t drop our lips and use it as an excuse. We actually slumped when a few players started filtering back into the side. I’ve never seen a side sook as much about injuries as Carlton 2024

The facts are there and your mob are still dropping their lips mate, sometimes i wonder if you can read.

 

[Fadge]

The facts are there and your mob are still dropping their lips mate, sometimes i wonder if you can read.

'Facts'?

So you'll be able to answer my first question - who were the best 22 from the respective teams that were used to compile the data?

And an associated question - 'Why is a player who is assessed as best 22 by the author of the article more important than a player who is assessed as just outside the best 22 from another team (and may in fact be deemed best 22 by another observer)?

Detail in the data is important.

 

[Fadge]

NFI

Typical response from a Carlton poster when then have nothing.

 

[Robertio]

'Facts'?

So you'll be able to answer my first question - who were the best 22 from the respective teams that were used to compile the data?

And an associated question - 'Why is a player who is assessed as best 22 by the author of the article more important than a player who is assessed as just outside the best 22 from another team (and may in fact be deemed best 22 by another observer)?

Detail in the data is important.

Ha ha ha, I'm not and have never played your silly games, you just keep on making an idiot of yourself like leaving De Koning out of our injury list.

 

[Robertio]

Typical response from a Carlton poster when then have nothing.

Just like yesterday with you and your nuffy and dill comments when you're struggling.

 

[Fadge]

Ha ha ha, I'm not and have never played your silly games, you just keep on making an idiot of yourself like leaving De Koning out of our injury list.

I left him out because the parameters I wrote on the post were 'more than 6 games'.

Comprehension... is important.

 

[Robertio]

I left him out because the parameters I wrote on the post were 'more than 6 games'.

Comprehension... is important.

So is the truth mate.

 

[Arr0w]

I'm still unsure if it's a spambot, communal account, memory loss, trolling, or ineptitude

Perhaps a mixture

 

[JustaBattler]

There have actually lots of comments when that article has been previously posted.

1. Questioning who were regarded as best 22 for both teams. I mean, it makes a pretty big difference if Silvagni was or wasn't included for Carlton, for example. That question went unanswered.

2. I also shared some data around the clear best 18 players missing large chunks of games - that is, more than 6 games. The only CLEAR best 18 player Carlton had miss more than 6 games was Cerra with 11. Docherty may be included at a stretch with 22 missed games. So that's two players. Best 18 Collingwood players who missed more than 6 games were McStay (18), Mitchell (17), Mihocek (12), De Goey (10) and Elliott (8). Cox (7) is in the same boat as Docherty as fringe best 18. Again, 'nothing to see here from the Carlton folk'.

So any other data you want to blindly share, without understanding it yourself, that you're going to accuse other posters of ignoring?

I think aggregate numbers speak louder than your opinion about individual players ...

Each team will play to its best capability when it has its best players available more often than not - it matters not wether those players may or may not be as good as other teams missing players - that is a red herring irrelevancy...

I agree with you that Collingwood had to cope with injury which impacted on team performance capability during 2024 - this is just a fact.

For similar reasons - Carlton was also negatively impacted - however you seem to have a view that Carltons player availability is an irrelevant consideration because they are all spuds.

Having views like the ones you put forward diminish the potential for interesting discussion.

At base level - you and your pussy cat friends assertions that "injoorieeers dun maataaaa" is a demonstrably rubbish notion and people that push such idiocy deserve the derision that comes thier way - at best it is lame trolling and at worst - it indicates total ignorance regarding the game of football - I think you and your mate pussy willow evidence a dreary combination of both.

For mine - there was absolutely zero surprise in the shellacking that Sydney recieved atthe hands of Brisbane in the GF - ther was also zero suprise for me in Carlton losing to Brisbane ...

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Posts a false claim that rabbit averages as many hard ball gets as Bont and Petracca, challenged, then questions the comprehension of others

Take it up in the relevant thread mate don't drag your rubbish around

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustaBattler]

Stop talking shit. You didn’t have “a lot more”. We both had around 12-14 on our injured lists mid season. The difference was we didn’t drop our lips and use it as an excuse. We actually slumped when a few players started filtering back into the side. I’ve never seen a side sook as much about injuries as Carlton 2024

oh come on now....Player availability is one thing - disrupted team continuity is another - they are both negatives as your own owrds clearly spell out.

and also clearly demosntarted by Voss's gamble putting in 6 players who hadnt played for a month into a final against Brisbane and praying. That game was always going to be a loss- IMO better to have played the kids and copped the loss on the chin but at least giving them a go instead of playing blokes that couldnt move let alone compete.

Brisbane's flag win was remarkable ( for mine) not only becase they managed to win from 5th - but also because they had a pretty ordinary run with injuries themselves - they got it all together leading up to finals - great effort. Sydney (again) proved that their strong fitness and lack of injury compared to other smilar teams could get them so far - but their defensive holes were able to be exposed by Brisbane's strong forwad line.

The real surprise to me was Bisbane's midfield dominace in that game - shameful display by Sydney including Grundy not to be able to best a VFL ruckman - the VFL bloke was insterumental in the flag win - and of course big Joe Daniher.

There were othe rsuprises in teh finals series - capitulation by Port probably topped my list.

 

[Pistol Night]

oh come on now....Player availability is one thing - disrupted team continuity is another - they are both negatives as your own owrds clearly spell out.

and also clearly demosntarted by Voss's gamble putting in 6 players who hadnt played for a month into a final against Brisbane and praying. That game was always going to be a loss- IMO better to have played the kids and copped the loss on the chin but at least giving them a go instead of playing blokes that couldnt move let alone compete.

Brisbane's flag win was remarkable ( for mine) not only becase they managed to win from 5th - but also because they had a pretty ordinary run with injuries themselves - they got it all together leading up to finals - great effort. Sydney (again) proved that their strong fitness and lack of injury compared to other smilar teams could get them so far - but their defensive holes were able to be exposed by Brisbane's strong forwad line.

The real surprise to me was Bisbane's midfield dominace in that game - shameful display by Sydney including Grundy not to be able to best a VFL ruckman - the VFL bloke was insterumental in the flag win - and of course big Joe Daniher.

There were othe rsuprises in teh finals series - capitulation by Port probably topped my list.

I agree about the continuity mate. We played probably our best when previously unknowns like Richards, Sullivan etc got consecutive games over a period mid season. Also, were you that angry at me that you mashed the keyboard a bit with some of those words?

 

[JustaBattler]

I agree about the continuity mate. We played probably our best when previously unknowns like Richards, Sullivan etc got consecutive games over a period mid season. Also, were you that angry at me that you mashed the keyboard a bit with some of those words?

Ive noiticed that my spelling has declined over teh years which coincided wiuth the use of that grammarly thingy which starte dto bug me with its invasive suggestions and pop up so I canned it - now people who bother to read the typage on here only have to contend with genuine sopelling errors and my mostly ambivalent atitude to proof reading fat fingered derived error.

Ive have come to embrace some of the 'eccentricity' that comes with middle agedness - Ive got 'age'.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Am I reading this right? Pies fans are telling Carlton fans that we can't blame injuries for playing a part in derailing our season... But when asked why the Pies stunk it up big time this season the answer is... Injuries???