Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[Fadge]

What would it matter, most of you follow him to other threads anyway, that sparrow bloke is in every thread Fadge is.

I'm not sure how many times I have to tell him I'm hetero and taken... maybe he'll take the hint eventually.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

What would it matter, most of you follow him to other threads anyway, that sparrow bloke is in every thread Fadge is.

Come on LL Fadge has like 20k posts in Carlton threads... Are we following him around or is he just trolling every Blues thread incessantly?

 

[Arr0w]

No he's not, he's simply stating Pies are south of the eight, when you blokes call us Blueshakes is that having a go at people with Parkinsons, no it isn't.

One of the most bizarre claims I have seen

 

[Fadge]

I said it was a meaningless statement as it will never happen, nor is it a vital component to "team" success

It's far from meaningless and is indeed a vital component to team success.

Case in point, Kai Lohmann for Brisbane in 2024.

He wouldn't have been on anyone's radar at the start of the season, but he was one if eight players for Brisbane who kicked 20 plus goals, including important goals in the Preliminary Final, and steadying goals at the start of the Grand Final to set Brisbane on their way.

Whether it's 4 or upto 8 players, each side that is likely to finish in the 8 can make a similar claim

Brisbane and Hawthorn had 8 players kick 20 plus goals.

Sydney and Geelong had 7 players kick 20 plus goals.

I would say a key reason as to why Collingwood underperformed in 2024 is that we had a lot of those players unavailable for a lot of the season - McStay, Mihocek, De Goey, Elliott - meaning we only had 4 players kick 20 plus goals.

And the more you have of these players, the more likely you are to have a broad range of goalkickers, and therefore a variety of avenues to goal.

And it is a definite weakness of Carlton's.

A poster named Carlton's best forward line in 2025, and included the following:
Williams - season best of 15 goals
E. Hollands - season best of 17 goals
Fogarty - season best of 9 goals
Motlop - 1 season over 12 goals (24 in 2023)
Silvagni - season best of 19 goals (though I hear he's training in the backline).

So lack of avenues to goal, and I say again, what happens if Charlie or Harry go down?

 

[Fadge]

You are so f%^&*N stupid you can't even get the point.

I am not the one telling you to talk footy, I am making the point that you lot love telling others, yet never do.

That is what is commonly known in these parts as a 'hypothet'.

 

[NetworkNerd]

It's far from meaningless and is indeed a vital component to team success.

Case in point, Kai Lohmann for Brisbane in 2024.

He wouldn't have been on anyone's radar at the start of the season, but he was one if eight players for Brisbane who kicked 20 plus goals, including important goals in the Preliminary Final, and steadying goals at the start of the Grand Final to set Brisbane on their way.

Brisbane and Hawthorn had 8 players kick 20 plus goals.

Sydney and Geelong had 7 players kick 20 plus goals.

I would say a key reason as to why Collingwood underperformed in 2024 is that we had a lot of those players unavailable for a lot of the season - McStay, Mihocek, De Goey, Elliott - meaning we only had 4 players kick 20 plus goals.

And the more you have of these players, the more likely you are to have a broad range of goalkickers, and therefore a variety of avenues to goal.

And it is a definite weakness of Carlton's.

A poster named Carlton's best forward line in 2025, and included the following:
Williams - season best of 15 goals
E. Hollands - season best of 17 goals
Fogarty - season best of 9 goals
Motlop - 1 season over 12 goals (24 in 2023)
Silvagni - season best of 19 goals (though I hear he's training in the backline).

So lack of avenues to goal, and I say again, what happens if Charlie or Harry go down?

Charlie is missing the first month or two so we will find out!

 

[Fadge]

Charlie is missing the first month or two so we will find out!

Is he? I thought that were planning/hoping to have him right for the start of the year?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I know none of you are going to fess up, but I did read the Daicos thread, so if you are using Carlton threads as an excuse, then I can call you all liars if you like.
Y'all have an obsession it's so f&*^%$N obvious.

That was just our payback thread for 4 years of trolling. Any thread made by ol custard guts is open season.

 

[LoungeLizard]

That was just our payback thread for 4 years of trolling

You are starting to get it.

 

[NetworkNerd]

Is he? I thought that were planning/hoping to have him right for the start of the year?

Oh you might be right... I know he is having knee surgery after he already had ankle surgery in September.

Even if he is 'right to go'... the blues should make sure he is 100% fit to play. Long season ahead

 

[carlton_99]

A poster named Carlton's best forward line in 2025, and included the following:
Williams - season best of 15 goals
E. Hollands - season best of 17 goals
Fogarty - season best of 9 goals
Motlop - 1 season over 12 goals (24 in 2023)
Silvagni - season best of 19 goals (though I hear he's training in the backline).

So lack of avenues to goal, and I say again, what happens if Charlie or Harry go down?

Williams - only played forward for half a season in 2024 and kicked 15 goals in 11 games.
E.Hollands - this was his first full year of AFL
Motlop - in his second year of AFL kicked 24 goals and then only played 7 games this season due to injury

We have far less experience in our forward line compared to the likes of Collingwood and have been trialling new players in forward roles that haven't been there before. Of course we aren't gonna have heaps of players with a history of kicking 20 goals in the forward line. Charlie and Harry are very important and losing them would be just as impactful as any other team losing a top three player at their club (i.e. very significant).

Goals also don't just come from the 7 players you name in the forward line.

 

[Arr0w]

It's far from meaningless and is indeed a vital component to team success.

It's meaningless, you have 7 forwards a game, but unlikely they all play the whole year, plus their are rotations with midfielders

Case in point, Kai Lohmann for Brisbane in 2024.

He wouldn't have been on anyone's radar at the start of the season, but he was one if eight players for Brisbane who kicked 20 plus goals, including important goals in the Preliminary Final, and steadying goals at the start of the Grand Final to set Brisbane on their way.

Hence my point, he took another forwards role

Brisbane and Hawthorn had 8 players kick 20 plus goals.

It's more about game style. In your 2023 season you only had 5 players kicking 20 goals, not the same names from 2022, where you also had 5

2024 you had 4 players kick 20 goals, Mihocek kicked 19, so you can't use it as an excuse for your season

I would say a key reason as to why Collingwood underperformed in 2024 is that we had a lot of those players unavailable for a lot of the season - McStay, Mihocek, De Goey, Elliott - meaning we only had 4 players kick 20 plus goals.

See above

And the more you have of these players, the more likely you are to have a broad range of goalkickers, and therefore a variety of avenues to goal.

Some sides have had more 20 goal players than the premiers some seasons

And it is a definite weakness of Carlton's.

A poster named Carlton's best forward line in 2025, and included the following:
Williams - season best of 15 goals
E. Hollands - season best of 17 goals
Fogarty - season best of 9 goals
Motlop - 1 season over 12 goals (24 in 2023)
Silvagni - season best of 19 goals (though I hear he's training in the backline).

So lack of avenues to goal, and I say again, what happens if Charlie or Harry go down?

Carltons main weaknesses isn't having multiple 20 goal a season players

 

[Fadge]

Charlie and Harry are very important and losing them would be just as impactful as any other team losing a top three player at their club.

Nah, as I've said before, Carlton losing Charlie, or Harry, or Cripps or Weitering will have much more effect on Carlton than any other team losing one of their top 3 or 4 players.

Goals also don't just come from the 7 players you name in the forward line.

No shit, Sherlock.

But you would hope your forwards do their job by hitting the scoreboard, and I suggest Carlton have the worst, or at a minimum the least proven and least historically productive, batch of small and medium forwards in the competition.

 

[carlton_99]

Ok, if you think it's ok, you think that, but we all know he used it to try degrade Collingwood, IE: paint them in a lesser light and that's racist.

Trying to degrade Collingwood is not racism. Collingwood is not a race.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Trying to degrade Collingwood is not racism. Collingwood is not a race.

It is racist when you use a race of people to degrade someone or something though.

 

[Fadge]

Carltons main weaknesses isn't having multiple 20 goal a season players

This is the only accurate comment you made in the post.

It's one of a number of weaknesses that has resulted in Carlton failing to contend for a flag in over 20 years of building and rebuilding.

 

[Arr0w]

Ok, if you think it's ok, you think that, but we all know he used it to try degrade Collingwood, IE: paint them in a lesser light and that's racist.

Give it up

If you think it's racist, report it

 

[Arr0w]

This is the only accurate comment you made in the post.

It's one of a number of weaknesses that has resulted in Carlton failing to contend for a flag in over 20 years of building and rebuilding.

Back to 20 years?

I'll raise you 80

 

[carlton_99]

Nah, as I've said before, Carlton losing Charlie, or Harry, or Cripps or Weitering will have much more effect on Carlton than any other team losing one of their top 3 or 4 players.

Who are Collingwood's top 3 most important players? Two surely would be Daicos and Moore. If you lose Daicos what do you think happens to your midfield? If you lose Moore you would be running Dean and Frampton as your likely two KPDs with just Howe as a intercepting type to support.

If we lose Weitering we would have to run Young and Haynes which is not good but I would still argue probably better than Frampton and Dean. Young has actually looked good when Weitering has missed. We also have McGovern, Kemp and now possibly Silvagni to throw back there for added height/support. If we lose McKay or Curnow we still have the other.

 

[Fadge]

Back to 20 years?

I'll raise you 80

Oh.

Collingwood haven't contended for a flag in 80 years despite building and rebuilding for all of that time?

You're quite brilliant, Arr0w!

 

[Arr0w]

Oh.

Collingwood haven't contended for a flag in 80 years despite building and rebuilding for all of that time?

You're quite brilliant, CArr0w!

10 to 5 flags

"You're quite brilliant, Fadge!"

 

[Noidnadroj]

You forgot Parker, Ryan and DiMattia (or do you rate them?), and you do realise that both Frampton and Markov got regular games at Collingwood in a premiership year, don't you?

Your comment about the lack of quality goalkickers is laughable.

Give me a list with more players capable of kicking 20 plus goals a year than Collingwood (depending on where they play)?

The following players have kicked 20 plus goals at some stage of their careers:
Mihocek
Elliott
Membrey
McStay
Hill
Hoskin-Elliott
N. Daicos
Cox
De Goey
Schultz
Cameron
Johnson

With Lipinski, McCreery and J. Daicos having kicked in the high teens.

I've excluded Moore and Howe.

So let's exclude Johnson as I wouldn't expect him to play enough games, and Cox/Cameron as they will be shouldering the ruck work - which of the other 12 players named can you guarantee me will NOT kick 20 goals in 2025?

It’s not about players capable of kicking 20+. Flag teams need multiple players capable of kicking 40+.

Flag teams and their leading goal average:

Lions :
Daniher 2.15
Cameron 1.63
Hipwood: 1.38

Pies:
Mihocek: 1.96
Elliott: 1.62
McStay: 1.43

Cats:
Cameron: 2.71
Hawkins: 2.68
Stengle: 2.12

Demons:
Fritsch: 2.46
Brown: 1.92
Pickett: 1.6

Tigers (2019)
Lynch: 2.52
Jack: 1.85
Martin: 1.39

Eagles:
Kennedy: 3.07
Darling: 2.29
Ryan: 1.54

So for a flag you need a player capable of 2+ goals per game. Another capable of 1.5+ per game. And a third capable of 1.3+ per game.

Collingwood has 1 x player capable of 2+ goals per game and that’s Mihocek. But he’s 32yo and his highest ever average is 1.96. Then it’s 1.8…. Is he really gonna spike a career best year at 32yo? Unlikely.

Elliott is also 32yo and hasn’t averaged more than 1.6 goals per game the last 3 x seasons. He ain’t jumping up to 2+ at his age.

Membrey hasn’t averaged more than 1.6 goals per game the last 5 seasons and he’s rising 31yo.

Then the highest per game average of everyone else listed below in their career best year is McStay at 1.5 goals per game.

So unless you get career best years out of the 32yo Mihocek and Elliott you just don’t have enough firepower up forward. Nobody else have proven to be reliable and prolific goal scorers.

The number of 20+ goals per game players is far less important than having 2-3 x 40+ capable goal scorers and the Pies just don’t have them.

I wouldn’t back a single player from the list below to kick 40+ in 2025, let alone two of them.

Mihocek
Elliott
Membrey
McStay
Hill
Hoskin-Elliott
N. Daicos
Cox
De Goey
Schultz
Cameron
Johnson




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Fadge]

It’s not about players capable of kicking 20+. Flag teams need multiple players capable of kicking 40+.

Flag teams and their leading goal average:

Lions :
Daniher 2.15
Cameron 1.63
Hipwood: 1.38

Pies:
Mihocek: 1.96
Elliott: 1.62
McStay: 1.43

Cats:
Cameron: 2.71
Hawkins: 2.68
Stengle: 2.12

Demons:
Fritsch: 2.46
Brown: 1.92
Pickett: 1.6

Tigers (2019)
Lynch: 2.52
Jack: 1.85
Martin: 1.39

Eagles:
Kennedy: 3.07
Darling: 2.29
Ryan: 1.54

So for a flag you need a player capable of 2+ goals per game. Another capable of 1.5+ per game. And a third capable of 1.3+ per game.

Collingwood has 1 x player capable of 2+ goals per game and that’s Mihocek. But he’s 32yo and his highest ever average is 1.96. Then it’s 1.8…. Is he really gonna spike a career best year at 32yo? Unlikely.

Elliott is also 32yo and hasn’t averaged more than 1.6 goals per game the last 3 x seasons. He ain’t jumping up to 2+ at his age.

Membrey hasn’t averaged more than 1.6 goals per game the last 5 seasons and he’s rising 31yo.

Then the highest per game average of everyone else listed below in their career best year is McStay at 1.5 goals per game.

So unless you get career best years out of the 32yo Mihocek and Elliott you just don’t have enough firepower up forward. Nobody else have proven to be reliable and prolific goal scorers.

The number of 20+ goals per game players is far less important than having 2-3 x 40+ capable goal scorers and the Pies just don’t have them.

I wouldn’t back a single player from the list below to kick 40+ in 2025, let alone two of them.

Mihocek
Elliott
Membrey
McStay
Hill
Hoskin-Elliott
N. Daicos
Cox
De Goey
Schultz
Cameron
Johnson

What absolute codswallop.

If that's the case, you can put a line through the 2025 premiership favourites right now.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Seriously guys, life is too short. Get outside and enjoy every moment. Sometimes this thread is beyond fun. It gets so personal. If you don’t like a poster then don’t reply to them. There are two Carlton posters who I refuse to respond all the others have been fantastic. Arr0w WalshistheGOAT carlton_99 Robertio etc are great passionate posters who I value to have great footy discussion with. There is a line in banter threads, just have fun and don’t cross it.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Seriously guys, life is too short. Get outside and enjoy every moment. Sometimes this thread is beyond fun. It gets so personal. If you don’t like a poster then don’t reply to them. There are two Carlton posters who I refuse to respond all the others have been fantastic. Arr0w WalshistheGOAT carlton_99 Robertio etc are great passionate posters who I value to have great footy discussion with. There is a line in banter threads, just have fun and don’t cross it.

I haven't been on this thread that often recently but considering the rivalry between our clubs, i don't think this thread is overly toxic.

I've yet to put a Collingwood supporter on ignore for example which is a very positive sign i think.

Hate the club but not the person is the way to go here.