Analysis Why are we s**t?

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Get rid of Laverde, back Baldwin in it is worth the risk with Laverde being so horrific. Plenty of options to replace Kelly.
Please do it Brad. Under no circumstances do Laverde and Kelly get offered a contract for 2025.
 
faible said:
Sorry to break it to you, but pretty sure Laverde has a contract until the end of next year.
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Yeah you’re right. Pay him out, and say good bye.
 

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playing hurt players sure is a way to make a year fade out rather then developing/trusting depth.

feels like asking a leopard to change its spots but hopefully Scott widens the amount of players he trusts as the list builds better depth and he stops playing hurt/unfit players
 
Lack of competitiveness, systemic culture issues at club/board/player level for decades, constantly living in the past, poor list management, large cohort of volatile/negative/pessimistic supporters, lasting effects of drug saga/draft sanctions, the move from the heartland to a soulless airport facility and the overall lack of leadership at the club are just some of the factors in my opinion.
 
MarkJohnson#1 said:
Lack of competitiveness, systemic culture issues at club/board/player level for decades, constantly living in the past, poor list management, large cohort of volatile/negative/pessimistic supporters, lasting effects of drug saga/draft sanctions, the move from the heartland to a soulless airport facility and the overall lack of leadership at the club are just some of the factors in my opinion.
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Spot on. Wonder if the club will ever be aware of this list.
 
ydc55 said:
I think Hawthorn showed last night that you have to be prepared to cut veterans who cannot get you to the promised land and play fast young hungry athletes.
We have held onto players far too long and don’t play our kids.
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You also have to draft the guys with endurance which we have been pretty poor at. Then you have their midfield. They win contested footy but also have an outside game. They have given everyone a look at how to renovate the list after a bit of a top up fail for sure. Basically a four year turn around. What they have had is a pretty stable plan despite Clarkson and Wright moving on. The next guy in the line moved up and continued on.
 
The biggest thing I’ve seen the hawks do well is selection integrity.

They have had a lot of guys come through who are young/hungry and they have pitted them against each other in a way that’s raised the standard of the group.

VFL program has been good so they always had a player to bring in when seniors underperformed.
 

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I used to post here a bit with no real contribution (westking).
I apologised to my eldest boy recently for making him support Essendon. He’s nice enough to accept it. My youngest boy does not give one sh.t about the club let alone the game of AFL. He plays soccer.

I watch him play and pretend to be interested. **** you EFC.

It kills me that the same ol’ teams, ie Swans, Cats, Hawks are back where they are. Yet here are the bombers with more first round picks then one could poke a stick at. But as poor as ever. Lol im actually embarrassed and I cringe when someone asks me if I follow AFL.

I once paid 6 reserved seats for my family. I don’t no more.
 
Sleepwalker said:
I used to post here a bit with no real contribution (westking).
I apologised to my eldest boy recently for making him support Essendon. He’s nice enough to accept it. My youngest boy does not give one sh.t about the club let alone the game of AFL. He plays soccer.

I watch him play and pretend to be interested. **** you EFC.

It kills me that the same ol’ teams, ie Swans, Cats, Hawks are back where they are. Yet here are the bombers with more first round picks then one could poke a stick at. But as poor as ever. Lol im actually embarrassed and I cringe when someone asks me if I follow AFL.

I once paid 6 reserved seats for my family. I don’t no more.
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What tears me down is that Hawks were 0-5, **** a hoot they were on the right track whilst we ( I ) have it to them saying… “whatever…”

Yet, here we are. Hawks ahead. We really are embarrassing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yoda_ said:
What tears me down is that Hawks were 0-5, **** a hoot they were on the right track whilst we ( I ) have it to them saying… “whatever…”

Yet, here we are. Hawks ahead. We really are embarrassing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You will die on the hill everytime if you keep comparing us with the Hawks. Club with a winning culture that despite wasting a good draft because they let the coach get out of control for a season. They where still drafting well at the back end of the draft and their culture and philosophy had not really changed.
They where 0 - 5 because half their midfield had some issues in pre season.
You need to be looking at things a bit more realistically.
Until we prove we can win we can not build like them. We do not have the winning culture or leadership. We are Melbourne or Richmond years before they won a flag. Still tyring to find a way out of the bog.
Until you stop letting us suck you in and stop needing us to fill some sort of hole in your life you will keep dying on the same hill.
Enjoy the wins but stay on the sidelines and watch where it goes.
Have seen the same with my NRL side. For years we had good juniors and decent players but basically pissed it away by being the party club.
Was not until we turned the culture of the place around by sending the party boys elsewhere and concentrated on the junior program that we started to go in the right direction and even then it took 6 or so years and had to move one coach (Griffen) who was a hard ass and set a few standards. We got Cleary back and two seasons later we where in a GF. Now we are pushing for our fifth GF in row.
This shit takes time. We have just managed to remove the bloke who has been part of the problem and our current coach in Scott is they guy that can build the foundation of a good program but there is doubt he can be the guy who takes it to the next level.
If you want a sporting side that generally plays in the top 3 or 4 all the time and will give your life enjoyment the Melbourne Storm is your side.
 
ant555 said:
You will die on the hill everytime if you keep comparing us with the Hawks. Club with a winning culture that despite wasting a good draft because they let the coach get out of control for a season. They where still drafting well at the back end of the draft and their culture and philosophy had not really changed.
They where 0 - 5 because half their midfield had some issues in pre season.
You need to be looking at things a bit more realistically.
Until we prove we can win we can not build like them. We do not have the winning culture or leadership. We are Melbourne or Richmond years before they won a flag. Still tyring to find a way out of the bog.
Until you stop letting us suck you in and stop needing us to fill some sort of hole in your life you will keep dying on the same hill.
Enjoy the wins but stay on the sidelines and watch where it goes.
Have seen the same with my NRL side. For years we had good juniors and decent players but basically pissed it away by being the party club.
Was not until we turned the culture of the place around by sending the party boys elsewhere and concentrated on the junior program that we started to go in the right direction and even then it took 6 or so years and had to move one coach (Griffen) who was a hard ass and set a few standards. We got Cleary back and two seasons later we where in a GF. Now we are pushing for our fifth GF in row.
This shit takes time. We have just managed to remove the bloke who has been part of the problem and our current coach in Scott is they guy that can build the foundation of a good program but there is doubt he can be the guy who takes it to the next level.
If you want a sporting side that generally plays in the top 3 or 4 all the time and will give your life enjoyment the Melbourne Storm is your side.
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not comparing us with the Hawks, just the observation that even if they had started getting there affairs in order 2 years ago, they have shot past us like a rocket whilst we meander along deciding if we want to put big boy pants or not


I would happily take a bottom 3 finish if it meant we traded out Parish, played Hayes for 15 games (if his young body allowed it too), played Tsatas / Hobbs and actually allowed for two of the smalls 10+ games some consistency in the fwd half of the ground.
 
So, what do you do with our list? We were able to win plenty of contested ball and field position through the year, but struggled to put the score on the board. We were easily scored against and weren't able to put sides away either.

All of the teams that have looked like challengers over the last few years have had a clutch of small forwards. This provides so many different avenues to goal with run and carry forward of centre and goals from ground balls that it spreads the defence and makes life easier for tall forwards. It also takes pressure off tall forwards because they only need to provide a contest.

Quality small forwards also make it hard for opponents to break forward and reduce the amount of transition goals.

The other important part is intercepting. Ridley being out hurts us because it isn't just the games he misses, it is the lack of continuity in his game and our stricture.

I don't know how we turn around either of those, but I would be purging the small forwards we have and cycling through options. Martin is wasted down back. Merriet needs to be replaced by a bigger body in the midfield. These two moves allow us to have a half forward line with the dynamism of Martin and the precise disposal and leadership of Merret.

What we do with Stringer and Wright is a difficult one. If Stringer and Setterfield become the bigger bodies in the centre then Stringer ca be useful, but he needs to run more. Wright was terrible at half forward, struggled with a forward press and we looked two slow when he played with 2 rucks.

It is a quandary. I dont see how we get good next year, or the year after. It feels like we're destined to eternally finish between 7th and 15th.
 
fishardansin said:
So, what do you do with our list? We were able to win plenty of contested ball and field position through the year, but struggled to put the score on the board. We were easily scored against and weren't able to put sides away either.

All of the teams that have looked like challengers over the last few years have had a clutch of small forwards. This provides so many different avenues to goal with run and carry forward of centre and goals from ground balls that it spreads the defence and makes life easier for tall forwards. It also takes pressure off tall forwards because they only need to provide a contest.

Quality small forwards also make it hard for opponents to break forward and reduce the amount of transition goals.

The other important part is intercepting. Ridley being out hurts us because it isn't just the games he misses, it is the lack of continuity in his game and our stricture.

I don't know how we turn around either of those, but I would be purging the small forwards we have and cycling through options. Martin is wasted down back. Merriet needs to be replaced by a bigger body in the midfield. These two moves allow us to have a half forward line with the dynamism of Martin and the precise disposal and leadership of Merret.

What we do with Stringer and Wright is a difficult one. If Stringer and Setterfield become the bigger bodies in the centre then Stringer ca be useful, but he needs to run more. Wright was terrible at half forward, struggled with a forward press and we looked two slow when he played with 2 rucks.

It is a quandary. I dont see how we get good next year, or the year after. It feels like we're destined to eternally finish between 7th and 15th.
Click to expand...
Still think our biggest issue (And has been for years) is running power and effort up and down the ground
 
In light of Essenton, I like to take some joy in other’s misfortune. Yeah, f’ark caaaarrrlton last night was a nice start. Now, Braddy only rates us 5th most disappointing this year!

That’s something we can build on.

Johnson’s most disappointing non-finalists ranked​

1 – Collingwood
2 – Fremantle
3 - Gold Coast
4 - Melbourne
5 - Essendon
6 - Adelaide
7 - St Kilda
Equal - West Coast, North Melbourne, Richmond


Brad Johnson ranks the most disappointing non-finalists from the 2024 AFL season

“I did expect them to become a significant challenger in the competition this year.”
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au
 
ydc55 said:
I think Hawthorn showed last night that you have to be prepared to cut veterans who cannot get you to the promised land and play fast young hungry athletes.
We have held onto players far too long and don’t play our kids.
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This has been happening at least since the likes of Hille, McVeigh and Welsh were kept around despite form (and defensive effort) leaving them.

It's why I've been wanting the club to trade out the likes of Stringer, Parish, Shiel, even Hurley at various stages.

There comes a point where they no longer help the club's push towards a premiership, and that's when they should be moved on and replaced with younger, hungrier players.
 
Kong said:
This has been happening at least since the likes of Hille, McVeigh and Welsh were kept around despite form (and defensive effort) leaving them.

It's why I've been wanting the club to trade out the likes of Stringer, Parish, Shiel, even Hurley at various stages.

There comes a point where they no longer help the club's push towards a premiership, and that's when they should be moved on and replaced with younger, hungrier players.
Click to expand...
Not disagreeing with the sentiment here at all, but genuine question - how do you do this (remove older players who are not going to be there for the real push and replace them all with young 'hungry' players) without turning into North and having season after season of shellackings which breeds and instils a losing culture?

I can see how Hawthorn can do it - they have a recent history of success, a winning culture and a coach who knows how to win and what it takes to be successful in the modern (aka recent) era. Essendon have none of that. I'd fear us going from a perennial mediocre team (which sucks) to perennial cellar dwellers of the North Melbourne ilk which is even worse.
 
Stagger it. Like a draft, you don't add an entire list in one or two years, it's 3-5.

You move out 2-3 of these senior/obsolete players per year, retaining some older bodies and ideally some useful experience.

Essendon's lacking in that which is why I don't mind them bringing in some other solid older players from older clubs as they go. Bring in McKay and Duursma as you move out Heppell and Parish, whilst drafting young players that are driven and willing to actually defend.

You do that over a few years, rather than retaining them to the point that they've not only lost all trade value but they've passed on their shitty culture, and they've kept a younger player out of the team.
 
fishardansin said:
So, what do you do with our list? We were able to win plenty of contested ball and field position through the year, but struggled to put the score on the board. We were easily scored against and weren't able to put sides away either.

All of the teams that have looked like challengers over the last few years have had a clutch of small forwards. This provides so many different avenues to goal with run and carry forward of centre and goals from ground balls that it spreads the defence and makes life easier for tall forwards. It also takes pressure off tall forwards because they only need to provide a contest.

Quality small forwards also make it hard for opponents to break forward and reduce the amount of transition goals.

The other important part is intercepting. Ridley being out hurts us because it isn't just the games he misses, it is the lack of continuity in his game and our stricture.

I don't know how we turn around either of those, but I would be purging the small forwards we have and cycling through options. Martin is wasted down back. Merriet needs to be replaced by a bigger body in the midfield. These two moves allow us to have a half forward line with the dynamism of Martin and the precise disposal and leadership of Merret.

What we do with Stringer and Wright is a difficult one. If Stringer and Setterfield become the bigger bodies in the centre then Stringer ca be useful, but he needs to run more. Wright was terrible at half forward, struggled with a forward press and we looked two slow when he played with 2 rucks.

It is a quandary. I dont see how we get good next year, or the year after. It feels like we're destined to eternally finish between 7th and 15th.
Click to expand...

we have one of the youngest lists in the comp filled with a bunch of high picks so there’s a good chance of natural progression there.

Won’t be losing any best 22 players this offseason. And will be adding

1x top 5 pick big bodied midfielder who’s been in the VFL the last few years getting stronger (and racking it up)

1x first round SF via an academy pick (Kako)

And another top 10(ish) pick in a deep draft.

Plus the general physical development that a young side goes through. If any of our higher picks start to break out (Reid/cox/Perkins/Hobbs/Daveyjr/Hayes/Tsatas/Caddy)
P Money said:
Not disagreeing with the sentiment here at all, but genuine question - how do you do this (remove older players who are not going to be there for the real push and replace them all with young 'hungry' players) without turning into North and having season after season of shellackings which breeds and instils a losing culture?

I can see how Hawthorn can do it - they have a recent history of success, a winning culture and a coach who knows how to win and what it takes to be successful in the modern (aka recent) era. Essendon have none of that. I'd fear us going from a perennial mediocre team (which sucks) to perennial cellar dwellers of the North Melbourne ilk which is even worse.
Click to expand...


Some players are Cake some are icing.

Cake players do the bulk of the heavy lifting on the list and are hard to replace and you want to stagger players in these positions

Icing players. Players who play less important positions that are easy to slot youth into (Wing/HHF/Uncacountable HB, 2nd/3rd tall ect)

They are much easier to turn over without becoming shit.
 

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Analysis Why are we s**t?

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