Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Making it out like domestic violence in Islam, or any other particular section of the community, is somehow worse than domestic violence in general is trivialising it.
DV is a scourge.
Using it point score just because you hate a religion is poor form.

Because domestic violence is serious...we can't have a discussion about whether its worse in Islamic culture?

Personally i think its more to do with the culture of the place in the world where the people originate. But i don't have a problem with the discussion.

Piss off.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ahahaha that’s a pathetic attempt!
I’ve got Muslim friends ya nonce!
Now if you return to my previous post, that’s it, where do I specifically mention Muslims?

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all advocate Domestic Violence FFS!
They encourage it, do you now understand my Israel correlation?
The books and the ****ing teachings are the issue!
In secular society we have to study and search for other reasons as to why a person would domestically abuse their partner, with the religious, it’s not that hard, read their ****ing books FFS!

Ahahaha that’s a pathetic attempt!
I’ve got Muslim friends ya nonce!
Now if you return to my previous post, that’s it, where do I specifically mention Muslims?

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all advocate Domestic Violence FFS!
They encourage it, do you now understand my Israel correlation?
The books and the ****ing teachings are the issue!
In secular society we have to study and search for other reasons as to why a person would domestically abuse their partner, with the religious, it’s not that hard, read their ****ing books FFS!

All those "books" have archaic passages that the modern clerics would wish wasn't there.
Then their are weird offshoots of religion who like to seize on bits of the books that others tend to ignore.

 

[evolved2]

DV in Islam is the same as DV in any other community.
DV is in every community.

Trying to pretend that DV in Islam (or any other community) is somehow different to any other DV, trivialises DV.
If you really care about DV, then you wouldn't be trivialising it.

Who is claiming DV from Muslims is different to DV from others? I haven't seen any such post.

The point is that the Qu'ran has a passage which suggests lightly beating your wife is an option. Beliefs are known to be a risk factor for DV, including religious beliefs.

"Religion and spiritual beliefs have been found to play a significant role in domestic violence dynamics. Certain religious interpretations and teachings can contribute to the acceptance of violence, particularly against women, as a form of submission or obedience. This phenomenon is prevalent in Middle Eastern countries, where religious texts such as the Bible and the Qur’an are often quoted to justify and perpetuate gender-based violence."

Exploring factors influencing domestic violence: a comprehensive study on intrafamily dynamics

This econometric analysis investigates the nexus between household factors and domestic violence. By considering diverse variables encompassing mood, depression, health consciousness, social media engagement, household chores, density, and religious affiliation, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I am protective of people's right to be whatever they choose to be.

Sure, but let's not be ignorant of the risk factors associated with certain religious beliefs.

 

[Gethelred]

Because domestic violence is serious...we can't have a discussion about whether its worse in Islamic culture?

I think the sticking point here is, can you or others demonstrate that it's worse in Islamic cultures?

Not: they wear hijabs, they live under oppressive Sharia (which is a patriarchal system, but is also an autocratic one; everyone is oppressed and everyone in this thread opposes it), the book says X or anecdotes about honour killings in the Middle East/Asian subcontinent.

If it can be demonstrated - as in, treat it like a factual claim that can be supported with evidence to the best of someone's ability - then the thread can move on with that knowledge; if it can't, we can still move on without domestic violence being used as something to throw at muslims uniquely.

 

[Gough]

While we have a violence against women epidemic in our own secular country we shouldn't really be pointing fingers at others, theist or not.

 

[evolved2]

While we have a violence against women epidemic in our own secular country we shouldn't really be pointing fingers at others, theist or not.

So we can't point out child abuse in Catholic churches because it's prevalent elsewhere? Seems you can easily reach the point that nothing can be discussed if we follow through on that logic.

 

[Number37]

Who is claiming DV from Muslims is different to DV from others? I haven't seen any such post.

The point is that the Qu'ran has a passage which suggests lightly beating your wife is an option. Beliefs are known to be a risk factor for DV, including religious beliefs.

"Religion and spiritual beliefs have been found to play a significant role in domestic violence dynamics. Certain religious interpretations and teachings can contribute to the acceptance of violence, particularly against women, as a form of submission or obedience. This phenomenon is prevalent in Middle Eastern countries, where religious texts such as the Bible and the Qur’an are often quoted to justify and perpetuate gender-based violence."

Exploring factors influencing domestic violence: a comprehensive study on intrafamily dynamics

This econometric analysis investigates the nexus between household factors and domestic violence. By considering diverse variables encompassing mood, depression, health consciousness, social media engagement, household chores, density, and religious affiliation, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Come on man, don't be ridiculous.
You are using DV as a stick with which to beat Islam, like Islam is the only context of DV, or the worst context of DV.

Sure, it is on topic, given the thread is about "blaming Islam for the fact it's raining today".

The DV shit take is the worst of the shit takes because it trivialises a serious societal issue.

It's follows from the other shit take where people were claiming that a woman wearing a burqa is getting oppressed...in the same sentence as telling a woman what she can and can't wear because you (not you specifically) don't like it.

Sure, but let's not be ignorant of the risk factors associated with certain religious beliefs.

1/
There are "risk factors" for all parts of society.
When we talk about the "risk factors" of the treatment for hundreds of years for indigenous folk then we are often told nah didn't happen or get over it.

2/
Tarring all with the same brush, because of the actions of some, doesn't do anything other than create unnecessary division.
Step back and look at the reality.
Muslims are all over our country.
There isn't really any tension between Muslims and the rest of society in this country.
The idea that muslim men are looking for an excuse to beat their wife is patently ridiculous.
The idea that muslim women only wear burqas because they are forced to, is also patently ridiculous.

 

[Number37]

Because domestic violence is serious...we can't have a discussion about whether its worse in Islamic culture?

Personally i think its more to do with the culture of the place in the world where the people originate. But i don't have a problem with the discussion.

Piss off.

You can clearly have any discussion you want.
Nobody is stopping you.
As part of that discussion, my 2 cents worth is that people will use whatever excuse to attempt to justify what is nothing but bigotry.

 

[Number37]

Well, it made a bunch of Saudis fly two planes in to the World Trade Centre, made a bunch of peaceful Indonesians blow up 200 Australians, so, a bit of DV ain’t a yuge stretch now is it?

Yeah, that is very sound logic. Not.

 

[ZEV]

Or we can say that our stats are better than the stats of predominantly muslim countries....if it makes you feel better?

Not sure why you are so defensive and emotional over a relevant question.

Thank you for clarifying that domestic violence is considerably worse in predominantly Muslim countries.

The fact that this statistics are recorded and measured suggests to me that perhaps it is a cultural issue rather than a religious issue.

FWIW your inability to rationally and unemotively discuss issues regarding Islam is mildly concerning and alarming.

 

[Number37]

The fact that this statistics are recorded and measured suggests to me that perhaps it is a cultural issue rather than a religious issue.

Because they are recording statistics that means it is a cultural issue?
How does that logic work?
It doesn't, you are just making it up.

Abuse/the use of violence is learned behaviour.
A person develops the tendency for violence by witnessing it with their own eyes.
Violence/abuse in a domestic setting occurs in every and all cultures.
ie blaming culture for causing it is meaningless because it is prevalent in all cultures.




FYI,

The WHO reported that the global prevalence of physical and sexual intimate partner violence is 30%, with the highest prevalence in the South-East Asia.


García-Moreno C, Jansen HA, Ellsberg M, Heise L, Watts C. WHO Multi-country Study on Women’s Health and Domestic Violence against Women Initial results on prevalence, health outcomes and women’s responses Full Report. World Health. 2005. p. 13–40.

 

[ZEV]

Because they are recording statistics that means it is a cultural issue?
How does that logic work?
It doesn't, you are just making it up.

Abuse/the use of violence is learned behaviour.
A person develops the tendency for violence by witnessing it with their own eyes.
Violence/abuse in a domestic setting occurs in every and all cultures.
ie blaming culture for causing it is meaningless because it is prevalent in all cultures.




FYI,

The WHO reported that the global prevalence of physical and sexual intimate partner violence is 30%, with the highest prevalence in the South-East Asia.


García-Moreno C, Jansen HA, Ellsberg M, Heise L, Watts C. WHO Multi-country Study on Women’s Health and Domestic Violence against Women Initial results on prevalence, health outcomes and women’s responses Full Report. World Health. 2005. p. 13–40.

Correct me if I'm wrong but rape is considered serious violation of Sharia Law.

However marital rape is not considered a crime in many predominantly Muslim countries.

Their legal system, which is a result of culture, condones marital rape.

Hence, cultural issue, not Islamic issue.

Citing a 20 year old study on a constantly evolving societal issue is not really the evidential win you believe it to be, to be fair the point you are trying to demonstrate isn't clear either?





Not sure why you are referencing a twenty year old study for anything.

 

[Number37]

Correct me if I'm wrong but rape is considered serious violation of Sharia Law.

However marital rape is not considered a crime in many predominantly Muslim countries.

Their legal system, which is a result of culture, condones marital rape.

Hence, cultural issue, not Islamic issue.

Citing a 20 year old study on a constantly evolving societal issue is not really the evidential win you believe it to be, to be fair the point you are trying to demonstrate isn't clear either?





Not sure why you are referencing a twenty year old study for anything.

The option is there for you to reference a more recent study that disputes the 20 year old study.
Instead you just resort to the most predictable bullshit.



Marital rape not being a crime has been a part of every society/culture until very recently.
A dude from the UK in the 90's took his case to the European Court of Human Rights to argue that he couldn't be found guilty of raping his wife. This case was the catalyst to reform the law in many Western countries, including Australia.

 

[Chief]

perhaps it is a cultural issue rather than a religious issue.

Pretty sure Israel has killed more kids per capita recently than any other society.

 

[ZEV]

The option is there for you to reference a more recent study that disputes the 20 year old study.
Instead you just resort to the most predictable bullshit.

Why do I need to provide another study when you made a statement answering my question? Your study confirms that.

Or we can say that our stats are better than the stats of predominantly muslim countries....if it makes you feel better?

I didn't know the answer. You made the statement that predominantly Muslim countries have a greater rate of dv.

 

[Number37]

Why do I need to provide another study when you made a statement answering my question? Your study confirms that.




I didn't know the answer. You made the statement that predominantly Muslim countries have a greater rate of dv.

You question its validity, being 20 years old.
I was just assuming that you have updated statistics at your disposal.

Predominantly muslims countries have a billion times worse DV problem therefore you should continue to hate Muslims.

 

[ZEV]

Pretty sure Israel has killed more kids per capita recently than any other society.

The argument can be made that Israel has saved more kids per capita than any other society but instructions at the top of the thread indicate that is a topic for a different thread.

Also not sure why the topic of Israel is being discussed in relation to domestic violence in Muslim majority countries.

I'll be more than happy to engage in the other thread but unfortunately my privileges don't extend that far.

 

[ZEV]

You question its validity, being 20 years old.
I was just assuming that you have updated statistics at your disposal.

Predominantly muslims countries have a billion times worse DV problem therefore you should continue to hate Muslims.

The study is a generation old.

Do you hold the exact same values as your parents or did you benefit from the internet or globalisation or multi-culturalism?

Why would you assume that when I literally asked how do they compare? I asked because I don't know.

Clearly you can't engage with me on any rational level yet you suggest I have a hatred of people because of what building they choose to pray in?

I put it to you to find one post of mine anywhere where I have been critical of Muslims.

Your posting history is littered with discrimination.

 

[Number37]

Your posting history is littered with discrimination.

I can't be racist or bigoted or discriminatory
I have a non-white friend.
I once worked with a disabled person.
My friend's next door neighbour's daughter's cousin's father is 3 parts Mexican, 2 parts Asian and 1 part Moroccan and I sometimes talk to them and they tell me that they love to go to the pub.

 

[Cmarsh]

A response from the Iranian government that appears to be Islam influenced.

Iran summons Australia's ambassador in Tehran over pro-LGBT Instagram post

The post on the embassy's official Instagram account celebrated "Wear it Purple Day" and expressed dedication to creating "a supporting environment where everyone, especially LGBTQIA+ youth, can feel proud to be themselves".

www.abc.net.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

A response from the Iranian government that appears to be Islam influenced.

Iran summons Australia's ambassador in Tehran over pro-LGBT Instagram post

The post on the embassy's official Instagram account celebrated "Wear it Purple Day" and expressed dedication to creating "a supporting environment where everyone, especially LGBTQIA+ youth, can feel proud to be themselves".

www.abc.net.au

They'll quote our own rules back to us, not realising it was actually an old Monty Python sketch.

 

[Gough]

A response from the Iranian government that appears to be Islam influenced.

Iran summons Australia's ambassador in Tehran over pro-LGBT Instagram post

The post on the embassy's official Instagram account celebrated "Wear it Purple Day" and expressed dedication to creating "a supporting environment where everyone, especially LGBTQIA+ youth, can feel proud to be themselves".

www.abc.net.au

They're in good company with our wannabe PM.

‘We are not pursuing a woke agenda’: Dutton bans special morning teas at Defence after IDAHOBIT

Peter Dutton has laid down the law to his department over pursuing a “woke” agenda, saying such events are a distraction from protecting Australia’s national security.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They're in good company with our wannabe PM.

‘We are not pursuing a woke agenda’: Dutton bans special morning teas at Defence after IDAHOBIT

Peter Dutton has laid down the law to his department over pursuing a “woke” agenda, saying such events are a distraction from protecting Australia’s national security.

www.smh.com.au

Wonder if our guy has to go in before or after the British envoy.

https://en.mfa.ir/portal/newsview/752783/Iran-summons-British-charg%C3%A9-daffaires-over-sanctions

 

[carltonchelsea]

Yeah, that is very sound logic. Not

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg
Is that sound enough logic for ya mate, they don’t get sounder or smarter or wiser than Weinberg do they?
Pretty sure he didn’t have sex slaves either!

 

[Chief]

The argument can be made that Israel has saved more kids per capita than any other society

You reckon?