Autopsy You get what you deserve - vs GWS review thread

[Alberton Proud]

No but it's their job to execute the game plan and strategy. We had plenty of chances to come back and possibly win last night - the players didn't execute the final piece, finishing.

Can you describe what our game plan is ?
I have no idea what it is other than chaotic ball movement that relies on individuals skill

The reason our goal kicking was so poor was shots from outside 50, sharp angles, under oppo pressure
This is a result of the chaos ball approach which is coached
That is not on the players

Compare that to GWS
Handball chains
Gut running to space
Ruck clearance set ups
Forward running patterns

Our coaching team haven't got a clue

 

[The Hobo]

As David King likes to say; do not get beaten by what you know.

Why, oh why did the Coaches foolishly go in with the same old, same old so many injured players.
Where McKenzie could be seen limping in the warm up.

There was literally no alternative. Pasini has been in horrible form by all accounts.

 

[The Hobo]

Spoke to long tim port supporters, Kingsley, nicks Hardwick had port dna under Williams. Williams need to come back treadles as coach to restore port dna

Would love to have Choco back - either as coach or even as someone in the backrooms like he does for Melbourne right now.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Titus spot on as usual

The Monday Knee Jerk Reaction: AFL Finals Week Two

Footy is a passion, not some cold hearted, spread sheet dominated rational exercise. On a Monday, you want irrational reaction. You want emotion to trump

www.titusoreily.com

Port Adelaide certainly make knockout finals look hard. This is the fifth time they have lost one since 2014.

Port fans have seen this movie before, and they didn’t like the ending the first four times.

Ken Hinkley said after the game, 'We were handed a valuable lesson', but how many times can you be given the same lesson before you learn?

 

[Alberton Proud]

I just assumed that 90% of those 'GWS fans' were really Crows fans. I even saw one of them holding a Crows scarf.

When half the crowd got in for free I'm not really surprised so many turned up

 

[manureid]

I'll bite, as someone that's been accused of being a "happy clapper"

I'm certainly not a "keep Ken" person, i'd much rather have waited till end of season before re-signing him, and after the result, I would not have kept him on. But guess what, he's here now, and I don't think he's solely responsible for our failures - watching Matthew Lloyd on the Sunday Footy Show and he pointed out the blatantly obvious, our weakness last season was in ruck and key defence. That was exposed yet again in the two finals. We all know it. No coach is winning the flag with our current ruck and Key Defender situation.

So then the question becomes - is that on Ken Hinkley, or is that on Jason Cripps? We all love Cripps, and he's done a great job building our list, however he has a weak spot when it comes to Key position players and ruckman. I personally feel that this has had a bigger issue on our success over a long period of time than Ken.


Ken can only do with what tools he has. We have been forced to play injured players for the second half of the season due to a complete lack of depth. McKenzie ideally wouldn't have played due to his injury, but what was the next option? Lycett was horrible yet again, and then got injured. His alternative was Hayes with a bung shoulder. Everywhere you look, there was players carrying bad injuries. Our medical team has not had a great season, and I'd say a review needs to be done, particularly considering the concussion saga earlier.

Let's look at the list.

Defence - We are really poor defensively, losing the most 1 on 1's in the competition. McKenzie, Aliir etc. lose nearly half their one on ones. The stats are clear on this. McKenzie is too undersized for many of the forwards he plays on, and he's lost a tonne of pace. He should be playing as a third tall. Aliir is great when allowed to play loose as an interceptor, but he loses as many one on ones as McKenzie.

Ruck - Lycett has been solid for us for a long time, but he's totally ineffective now apart from a patch of about 3 weeks. Hayes has his strengths and weaknesses, but realistically isn't the answer. Teakle simply not ready/may never be ready.

Forwards - Great promise shown by Lord, Georgy was injured and forgot how to kick before that, Charlie has spent the whole season on one leg - but let's be honest, even at his best is far from a big goal kicker - which leaves Marshall, who's also playing injured and totally lost his form at the end of the season. Finlayson with all the off field stuff going on has suffered as well. Horrible set shot accuracy throughout.

Midfield is the one and only tick, but it gets nullified when we get smashed in the ruck.

How can we honestly expect to win the premiership with this list in it's current form?


So in summary, I don't think any coach would have won us the premiership this season with the squad we have and the current condition of the players.

Would I have re-signed Ken? No.
Do I think he's the reason we haven't succeeded? No I don't think so. I don't think our list has ever been strong enough holistically. We've had great players throughout, but so does every other team. As an entire unit - the answer is no.
And most importantly, Do I think we can win a flag under Hinkley? Yes, if we can fix the obvious deficiencies in our list.

People want to blame someone, and Ken will cop it, and that's fine. But it's important to look a bit deeper beneath the surface rather than the very simplistic argument that "he's been here X years and we won 0,sack Ken"

The coach said this is the best list he has ever had.

If he coached the Globetrotters he would tell them the Generals were a very scary team to play against and they would proceed to lose. The bloke is cooked.

 

[The Hobo]

Can you describe what our game plan is ?
I have no idea what it is other than chaotic ball movement that relies on individuals skill

The reason our goal kicking was so poor was shots from outside 50, sharp angles, under oppo pressure
This is a result of the chaos ball approach which is coached
That is not on the players

Compare that to GWS
Handball chains
Gut running to space
Ruck clearance set ups
Forward running patterns

Our coaching team haven't got a clue

We have some elite kickers in our team, so it would make sense to have a game plan that capitalises on that - not sure why you make it out to be a negative.

Many of our missed shots were well within range and decent angles. Meanwhile, the oppo were kicking tougher shots, and regularly do. How many of our 9 behinds in the last quarter were less than a 50/50 chance? Most were shots I'd expect an AFL player to make more often than not.

Our game plan relies on us winning centre clearance and scoring. We couldn't win centre clearance with Lycett, and then when we did get the ball into our 50, our forwards couldn't convert. The ruck issue is a list management issue, not a coach issue. The set shot conversion is a coach issue, but Ken is not the kicking coach.

 

[Harlott]

Anyone see some of those “highlights” shown by Lloyd on the Sunday footy show of our last qtr shots on goal. My god.
They were literally spraying them everywhere. Set shots, snaps, on the run, they were all there in their glory.

 

[Harlott]

We have some elite kickers in our team, so it would make sense to have a game plan that capitalises on that - not sure why you make it out to be a negative.

Many of our missed shots were well within range and decent angles. Meanwhile, the oppo were kicking tougher shots, and regularly do. How many of our 9 behinds in the last quarter were less than a 50/50 chance? Most were shots I'd expect an AFL player to make more often than not.

Our game plan relies on us winning centre clearance and scoring. We couldn't win centre clearance with Lycett, and then when we did get the ball into our 50, our forwards couldn't convert. The ruck issue is a list management issue, not a coach issue. The set shot conversion is a coach issue, but Ken is not the kicking coach.

Not sure what you’re arguing here. Ken’s the coach. He takes responsibility end of story. Now that he’s had 11 years you’re giving him an out saying he’s not the kicking coach?

 

[The Hobo]

Not sure what you’re arguing here. Ken’s the coach. He takes responsibility end of story. Now that he’s had 11 years you’re giving him an out saying he’s not the kicking coach?

If you sack Ken, and put whoever in as coach, but keep the same kicking coach, do you think our set shots improve?

 

[Alberton Proud]

The thing is, all coaches make mistakes like this. Its part of being a coach that sometimes your plan a doesnt work as you want.

Any other coach would have shuffled the magnets within the first quarter though, thats the difference. Same with the ruck and thats just the two most obvious ones.

We wait for the second half to change things up but we lost the second quarter by 30+ and lost the game by 23.

Its indefensible, lazy, abhorrent coaching. Honestly might be the worst coached game Ive ever seen, h&a or finals.

Kenny clearly said at his half time interview that he wouldn't change a thing and just back the players in to lift in the second half

He literally doesn't know how to coach football

 

[Alberton Proud]

Seeing Rozee visibly pull out of two contests which ended in scoring shots was awful.

Too scary
Obviously

 

[Harlott]

If you sack Ken, and put whoever in as coach, but keep the same kicking coach, do you think our set shots improve?

Yes

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Kenny clearly said at his half time interview that he wouldn't change a thing and just back the players in to lift in the second half

He literally doesn't know how to coach football

That comment really angered me.

Throw spp into the centre for a 10 min burst, bring Rioli up the ground, get Dixon deep, just do something!

Instead, rinse and repeat and hope for the best.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

It’s funny watching Hinkley try to play mind games. This time was - we’ll beat GWS because we recently beat them comfortably at AO

Almost always ends up with egg on his face

A classic over reaction from someone of low intelligence.

You want me to stop building up the opposition? Watch this!

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Papa G]

The Kenny's mates with the boys stuff makes me vomit.

In the wake of Barassi's passing, you notice how glowing everybody was with him even though he could cut you down and rip paint off the walls. Players both respected and feared him.

I had 2 Port Adelaide Royalty coaches in Year 8 and Year 10 at school. In Year 8 I had Bucky Cunningham, softly spoken, never got emotional, just monotone really. In Year 10 I had Neville Chicken Hayes. Angry, Animated, Intimidating, Screamed a lot, demanded toughness, old school.

Chicken Hayes was by far and away the better coach. Probably my favourite coach. I know they say the new generation don't respond the fire and brimstone stuff, but FMD, there needs to be respect for the position, not cuddles. These players and this club needs a fresh voice.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Anyone see some of those “highlights” shown by Lloyd on the Sunday footy show of our last qtr shots on goal. My god.
They were literally spraying them everywhere. Set shots, snaps, on the run, they were all there in their glory.

I looked at my notes and it was 9 to 10 different Power players choking in the last quarter, spraying the ball, not making the distance or the good old brain fade.

Dixon takes a contested mark and goals. A great start to the term. Well done big fella. He might get the team going. Goal.
Bergman gets a 50 penalty. Maybe the umps want us to win. Definitely kickable. A good player would kick that. Point.
Finlayson misses a hard shot outside 50. Point.
Boak snaps from the boundary. Hard shot but kickable. A good goalsneak would kick that. He hits the post. Point.
McEntee massive brain fade. Certain goal is ruined by his poor decision making.
Horne-Francis gathers and accelerates from stoppage and uncharacteristically just misses. Very kickable. Unlucky. Point.
Powell-Pepper lines up 40m on the 45. Misses. Definitely kickable. A good player would kick that. Point.
Houston lines out from 50 and doesn't quite make the distance. Needed more composure. Point.
Farrell kicks too deeply into the goals and it is an easy rushed behind. Heaps of Giants rush it through. Point.
Byrne-Jones crumbs the pack and kicks very quickly for a behind. Kickable enough. Point.
Rozee doesn't make the distance. Easy rushed behind.

For the Giants:

Riccardi has a very difficult shot from the boundary 35 to 40 out. Nails it. Goal.
Toby Greene. Fantastic one on one contested mark on Farrell. Easy goal

Like the week before, we definitely had our chances but we kicked ourselves out of the game. Whether it is skill or choking, we had 11 chances to 2.

Once the Giants got that lead in the 2nd Quarter, they couldn't finish us off and we weren't able to capitalise on that.

I don't know if this is a good call, a bad call or a Caro call but even though we played quite badly, we could have won that game. Now, we could've been blown out as well but we could have won that in the last quarter, easily.

Kick straight on half of those misses and we win.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

It’s funny watching Hinkley try to play mind games. This time was - we’ll beat GWS because we recently beat them comfortably at AO

Almost always ends up with egg on his face

IIRC I think he said, we hope to get the same result. Not very positive language at all. Loser talk.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

The Kenny's mates with the boys stuff makes me vomit.

In the wake of Barassi's passing, you notice how glowing everybody was with him even though he could cut you down and rip paint off the walls. Players both respected and feared him.

I had 2 Port Adelaide Royalty coaches in Year 8 and Year 10 at school. In Year 8 I had Bucky Cunningham, softly spoken, never got emotional, just monotone really. In Year 10 I had Neville Chicken Hayes. Angry, Animated, Intimidating, Screamed a lot, demanded toughness, old school.

Chicken Hayes was by far and away the better coach. Probably my favourite coach. I know they say the new generation don't respond the fire and brimstone stuff, but FMD, there needs to be respect for the position, not cuddles. These players and this club needs a fresh voice.

PAC?

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Alberton Proud]

I looked at my notes and it was 9 to 10 different Power players choking in the last quarter, spraying the ball, not making the distance or the good old brain fade.

Dixon takes a contested mark and goals. A great start to the term. Well done big fella. He might get the team going. Goal.
Bergman gets a 50 penalty. Maybe the umps want us to win. Definitely kickable. A good player would kick that. Point
Finlayson misses a hard shot outside 50. Point.
Boak snaps from the boundary. Hard shot but kickable. A good players would kick that. He hits the post. Point.
McEntee massive brain fade. Certain goal is ruined by his poor decision making.
Horne-Francis gathers and accelerates from stoppage and uncharacteristically just misses. Very kickable. Unlucky. Point.
Powell-Pepper lines up 40m on the 45. Misses. Definitely kickable. A good player would kick that. Point.
Houston lines out from 50 and doesn't quite make the distance. Needed more composure. Point.
Farrell kicks too deeply into the goals and it is an easy rushed behind. Heaps of Giants rush it through. Point.
Byrne-Jones crumbs the pack and kicks very quickly for a behind. Kickable enough. Point.
Rozee doesn't make the distance. Easy rushed behind.

For the Giants:

Riccardi has a very difficult shot from the boundary 35 to 40 out. Nails it. Goal.
Toby Greene. Fantastic one on one contested mark on Farrell. Easy goal

Like the week before, we definitely had our chances but we kicked ourselves out of the game. Whether it is skill or choking, we had 11 chances to 2.

Whilst you do expect AFL level players to kick most of those, we just don't get those 25 to 30m out directly in front or on a slight angle shots

It hardly happens ever

As I noted a few posts back that this is symptomatic of our chaotic ball movement and unstructured forward line
100% coaching failure

 

[Bevoman]

I'll bite, as someone that's been accused of being a "happy clapper"

I'm certainly not a "keep Ken" person, i'd much rather have waited till end of season before re-signing him, and after the result, I would not have kept him on. But guess what, he's here now, and I don't think he's solely responsible for our failures - watching Matthew Lloyd on the Sunday Footy Show and he pointed out the blatantly obvious, our weakness last season was in ruck and key defence. That was exposed yet again in the two finals. We all know it. No coach is winning the flag with our current ruck and Key Defender situation.

So then the question becomes - is that on Ken Hinkley, or is that on Jason Cripps? We all love Cripps, and he's done a great job building our list, however he has a weak spot when it comes to Key position players and ruckman. I personally feel that this has had a bigger issue on our success over a long period of time than Ken.


Ken can only do with what tools he has. We have been forced to play injured players for the second half of the season due to a complete lack of depth. McKenzie ideally wouldn't have played due to his injury, but what was the next option? Lycett was horrible yet again, and then got injured. His alternative was Hayes with a bung shoulder. Everywhere you look, there was players carrying bad injuries. Our medical team has not had a great season, and I'd say a review needs to be done, particularly considering the concussion saga earlier.

Let's look at the list.

Defence - We are really poor defensively, losing the most 1 on 1's in the competition. McKenzie, Aliir etc. lose nearly half their one on ones. The stats are clear on this. McKenzie is too undersized for many of the forwards he plays on, and he's lost a tonne of pace. He should be playing as a third tall. Aliir is great when allowed to play loose as an interceptor, but he loses as many one on ones as McKenzie.

Ruck - Lycett has been solid for us for a long time, but he's totally ineffective now apart from a patch of about 3 weeks. Hayes has his strengths and weaknesses, but realistically isn't the answer. Teakle simply not ready/may never be ready.

Forwards - Great promise shown by Lord, Georgy was injured and forgot how to kick before that, Charlie has spent the whole season on one leg - but let's be honest, even at his best is far from a big goal kicker - which leaves Marshall, who's also playing injured and totally lost his form at the end of the season. Finlayson with all the off field stuff going on has suffered as well. Horrible set shot accuracy throughout.

Midfield is the one and only tick, but it gets nullified when we get smashed in the ruck.

How can we honestly expect to win the premiership with this list in it's current form?


So in summary, I don't think any coach would have won us the premiership this season with the squad we have and the current condition of the players.

Would I have re-signed Ken? No.
Do I think he's the reason we haven't succeeded? No I don't think so. I don't think our list has ever been strong enough holistically. We've had great players throughout, but so does every other team. As an entire unit - the answer is no.
And most importantly, Do I think we can win a flag under Hinkley? Yes, if we can fix the obvious deficiencies in our list.

People want to blame someone, and Ken will cop it, and that's fine. But it's important to look a bit deeper beneath the surface rather than the very simplistic argument that "he's been here X years and we won 0,sack Ken"

I wonder who decided to take Narkle in the mid-season draft.
In hindsight it appears to be a wasted pick as Ken refuses to pick him.

Former Swans ruckman Naismith was eating em alive in the AFL.
I know Naismith had a problem with his knee, but he would have been an ideal short term solution to our ruck problem.
Ditto for defenders.

Mid-season players swaps will soon be a feature so the recruiters and Coaches have to be on the same page.

 

[FutureShock]

I'll bite, as someone that's been accused of being a "happy clapper"

I'm certainly not a "keep Ken" person, i'd much rather have waited till end of season before re-signing him, and after the result, I would not have kept him on. But guess what, he's here now, and I don't think he's solely responsible for our failures - watching Matthew Lloyd on the Sunday Footy Show and he pointed out the blatantly obvious, our weakness last season was in ruck and key defence. That was exposed yet again in the two finals. We all know it. No coach is winning the flag with our current ruck and Key Defender situation.

So then the question becomes - is that on Ken Hinkley, or is that on Jason Cripps? We all love Cripps, and he's done a great job building our list, however he has a weak spot when it comes to Key position players and ruckman. I personally feel that this has had a bigger issue on our success over a long period of time than Ken.


Ken can only do with what tools he has. We have been forced to play injured players for the second half of the season due to a complete lack of depth. McKenzie ideally wouldn't have played due to his injury, but what was the next option? Lycett was horrible yet again, and then got injured. His alternative was Hayes with a bung shoulder. Everywhere you look, there was players carrying bad injuries. Our medical team has not had a great season, and I'd say a review needs to be done, particularly considering the concussion saga earlier.

Let's look at the list.

Defence - We are really poor defensively, losing the most 1 on 1's in the competition. McKenzie, Aliir etc. lose nearly half their one on ones. The stats are clear on this. McKenzie is too undersized for many of the forwards he plays on, and he's lost a tonne of pace. He should be playing as a third tall. Aliir is great when allowed to play loose as an interceptor, but he loses as many one on ones as McKenzie.

Ruck - Lycett has been solid for us for a long time, but he's totally ineffective now apart from a patch of about 3 weeks. Hayes has his strengths and weaknesses, but realistically isn't the answer. Teakle simply not ready/may never be ready.

Forwards - Great promise shown by Lord, Georgy was injured and forgot how to kick before that, Charlie has spent the whole season on one leg - but let's be honest, even at his best is far from a big goal kicker - which leaves Marshall, who's also playing injured and totally lost his form at the end of the season. Finlayson with all the off field stuff going on has suffered as well. Horrible set shot accuracy throughout.

Midfield is the one and only tick, but it gets nullified when we get smashed in the ruck.

How can we honestly expect to win the premiership with this list in it's current form?


So in summary, I don't think any coach would have won us the premiership this season with the squad we have and the current condition of the players.

Would I have re-signed Ken? No.
Do I think he's the reason we haven't succeeded? No I don't think so. I don't think our list has ever been strong enough holistically. We've had great players throughout, but so does every other team. As an entire unit - the answer is no.
And most importantly, Do I think we can win a flag under Hinkley? Yes, if we can fix the obvious deficiencies in our list.

People want to blame someone, and Ken will cop it, and that's fine. But it's important to look a bit deeper beneath the surface rather than the very simplistic argument that "he's been here X years and we won 0,sack Ken"

We've had good enough lists to do better than we've done. Premiership? Maybe. GFs? Definitely. But as a whole we've never had a unit that's cohesive, mentally strong, confident under pressure and follows an effective game plan. How many times have Port "not come to play" in big matches? That's squarely on Hinkley and it's why he should be gone, and should have been gone years ago.

 

[wgt]

Popping over to the comments section of ports official facebook... so many apparently happy with the season and proud of the effort. It's baffling.

We're all doomed. Just another irrelevant Saint Kilda/Fremantle/Roos franchise.

the club has been actively censoring comments, they let a few of the 'not so bad' comments go through to look like its an open forum but remove all the ones that dont suit the narrative. Its blatant gas-lighting done in the name of protecting Ken. This is what the club has become, they cant handle the truth

 

[El Zorro]

If you sack Ken, and put whoever in as coach, but keep the same kicking coach, do you think our set shots improve?

As far as I know, we don't have a kicking coach.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

If you sack Ken, and put whoever in as coach, but keep the same kicking coach, do you think our set shots improve?

You're asking the wrong question.

The question is who should be accountable for poor kicking especially in front of goals.
The answer is ultimately the coach.
I don't know if we have a specific kicking coach for the forward line but if it is a problem, which it has been in these straight set finals loss, it is up to the head coach to address it.
You get a kicking coach in and the forwards spend more time kicking for goal, set shots, know their kick, etc.

In answer to your question, it is a definitely possibility either way that our set shots improve. A new head coach might put more emphasis on this side of the game. He might have some type of skills or know a guy who is willing to come down to the club and help out.

I am pretty sure there is not a kicking coach down at the club so getting one would be a strategic and attitudinal shift that we are going to not allow this aspect of the game to be an obstacle to winning.