Your clubs 26 and under side

[nineteen eighty]

Richmond fans do that with pretty much every thread. We could be discussing the Congolese Civil War and Richmond fans would somehow turn the topic into a discussion about Richmond.

Well given one of the main protagonists of the First Congolese Civil war was al-Bashir (Houli), seems like a good segue...

 

[Ron The Bear]

Good thread but sadly way too much talk centred around richmond.

Nobody has claimed Port's team isn't much chop, yet.

 

[Solska]

Melbourne aren't playing 2 true rucks.

If you think that's the case, we should probably just end the conversation now.

And no matter how much I disagree with your take, I'm not calling you dumb. Stay classy San Diego.

I didn’t say you were dumb, I said your take was. You’re essentially saying Nic Nat and Grundy couldn’t get a game at Melbourne because Melbourne don’t play two “true rucks”.

 

[All Aust]

Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

23

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

getting a game over Nankervis has made my day. One of he funnier things I’ve read on this website. Not even Goodwin is that stupid.

I see it as the some teams wanting tap ruckmen who push forward for their game plan, they have recruited accordingly. Should they wish to change their whole structure to halving contests and initiating chaos ball, they will probably recruit a Soldo / Nank like player.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Lynch has a solid handful of years left, he just turned 28 so that's atleast 5 seasons remaining. Ditto Prestia, will find another midfielder in the next few years, literally every club has good midfielders around they are all over the draft.

Riewoldt is probably one more and done, hes more the immediate need to fill a second KPF otherwise Lynch becomes the only target.

Cotchin's on field output is replaceable, his leadership will be missed.

The next KPF beyond Riewoldt is definitely our most pressing challenge, because gun KPFs can be so hard to find. There isn't a logically next in line on our list, Balta could potentially but it seems he's our anointed CHB for the next decade.

Martin is irreplaceable, but he is not a player that will hit a cliff, he'll decline gradually. So he plays more fwd. Not unhappy with that.

Cotchin has a more wear and tear type role and needs replacing. One, maybe 2 years left. Legs are going already.

Lynch has quite a few years left.

Prestia a solid 3 maybe 4.


Cotchin/Prestia we have Ross/Graham/RCD/Dow to step in. You'd hope for a smoothish transition.

Bolton replaces Edwards. I think Edwards has 2 decent output seasons left, so that's fine.

The issue is Lynch/Riewoldt. The player is there in CCJ, but he needs to pull his head in. If it doesn't work, that's where the hole is.

I just think it’s somewhat wishful thinking that somehow young players will come on better then history suggests. The important core players of your side still have probably another 2-3 years before the drop off but after that most other sides have a younger group with a lot higher ceiling coming through imo. The holes you have coming are two KPF and probably three starting mids. Arguably the 5 most important spots to fill. Trying to replace 5 guns is never easy especially from the top of the ladder with no top end picks.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Carlton:

FB: Plowman, Marchbank, SPS
HB: Saad, Weitering, Williamson
C: Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher
HF: Martin, Curnow, McGovern
FF: Cuningham, McKay, Gibbons

R: De Koning, Cripps, Williams

INT: Pittonet, Silvagni, Dow, Kennedy

I wouldn’t have any issues if we ran out like this round 1 sans Docherty, Jones and ECurnow.

Having talent like Kemp, Stocker and Philp outside that 22 bodes well. O’Brien I’m not sold on yet. Cottrell goes hard.

 

[Blackhawk42]

B: M.Ling, L.Melican, C.O‘Riordan
HB: J.Dawson, T.McCartin, C.Mills
C: G.Hewett, I.Heeney, O.Florent
HF: J.Bell, N.Blakey, W.Hayward
F: S.Wicks, H.McLean, T.Papley
FOLL: J.Amartey, J.Rowbottom, D.Stephens
I/C: J.McInerney, L.Taylor, R.Clarke, B.Ronke

Overall not a bad team. Wouldn't get humiliated but it lacks class.

Papley has to be at least 30 by now.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

I didn’t say you were dumb, I said your take was. You’re essentially saying Nic Nat and Grundy couldn’t get a game at Melbourne because Melbourne don’t play two “true rucks”.

That, my friend, is a strawman and a false equivalence.

I never said that.

Nic Nat and Grundy are superior to Nank and Ivvy. To put them in the same boat is disingenuous and doesn't fit the discussion that was being had.

 

[RUNVS]

Papley has to be at least 30 by now.

There are some players like that, who feel like they have been around forever even though they are actually quite young.

 

[Solska]

That, my friend, is a strawman and a false equivalence.

I never said that.

Nic Nat and Grundy are superior to Nank and Ivvy. To put them in the same boat is disingenuous and doesn't fit the discussion that was being had.

But your reasoning for Nank/Soldo not getting a game at Melbourne still applies to Grundy/Nic Nat. Now you’re back-pedalling. So you’re happy to adjust Melbourne’s structure to accomodate Nic Nat and Grundy but not for Nank and Soldo? Why? All four aforementioned ruckmen are clear upgrades on Jackson.

You’ve gone all Richo in the commentary box. Petrified of sounding biased so you end up overcompensating by saying dumb sh*t and agreeing with delusional Melbourne supporters who are brimming with confidence because it’s the off season.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

But your reasoning for Nank/Soldo not getting a game at Melbourne still applies to Grundy/Nic Nat. Now you’re back-pedalling. So you’re happy to adjust Melbourne’s structure to accomodate Nic Nat and Grundy but not for Nank and Soldo? Why? All four aforementioned ruckmen are clear upgrades on Jackson.

You’ve gone all Richo in the commentary box. Petrified of sounding biased so you end up overcompensating by saying dumb sh*t and agreeing with delusional Melbourne supporters who are brimming with confidence because it’s the off season.

No, it doesn't.

Level of talent CLEARLY comes into it.

You're not telling me Nank is NicNat now, are you?

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

You’ve gone all Richo in the commentary box. Petrified of sounding biased so you end up overcompensating by saying dumb sh*t and agreeing with delusional Melbourne supporters who are brimming with confidence because it’s the off season.

And just no.

I've got Richmond pet players that I'll show what seems delusional support for.

Don't ever @ me about Jack Graham

34

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

CL

3.2

5star

or K Mac. Players most people give nothing to. I'm a system man. And some players you can't measure by statistics.

 

[Solska]

No, it doesn't.

Level of talent CLEARLY comes into it.

You're not telling me Nank is NicNat now, are you?

No. But if level of talent comes into it then Nank walks into Melbourne’s side. He’d be better than two thirds of their best 22 and he’s a massive upgrade on the guy who currently pinch hits for them. Jesus Christ even the Melbourne supporter ITT agreed with that.

And just no.

I've got Richmond pet players that I'll show what seems delusional support for.

Don't ever @ me about Jack Graham

34

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

CL

3.2

5star

or K Mac. Players most people give nothing to. I'm a system man. And some players you can't measure by statistics.

Interesting as I don’t rate K Mac or Graham very highly. You could throw George in there as well. Seems we’re world’s apart with our assessments. Oh well.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

No. But if level of talent comes into it then Nank walks into Melbourne’s side.

No.

Because Melbourne play one ruck.

It's not that hard to understand.

Interesting as I don’t rate K Mac or Graham very highly

Maybe you don't value work off the ball?

Graham is our number one pressure player by that far it isn't funny.

And Kmac's defensive running doesn't get Brownlow votes, but it gets Dimma votes. That's why he was top 5 in the B&F this year, a premiership year. You don't rate a top5 finisher highly? Why not?

The game is more than possessions and goals. These two and their work off the ball are a major part of who Richmond are.

 

[Solska]

No.

Because Melbourne play one ruck.

It's not that hard to understand.

There’s no rule which states Melbourne are only allowed to play one ruckman. They may prefer it because they have no better option as it stands (similar to Richmond playing one KPF in 17), but if they had Nank they’d make an adjustment to their structure.

Maybe you don't value work off the ball?

Graham is our number one pressure player by that far it isn't funny.

And Kmac's defensive running doesn't get Brownlow votes, but it gets Dimma votes. That's why he was top 5 in the B&F this year, a premiership year. You don't rate a top5 finisher highly? Why not?

The game is more than possessions and goals. These two and their work off the ball are a major part of who Richmond are.

Anyone can run around and relentlessly tackle, chase, pressure and harass. The only skill set required for that is endurance. They’re effective at what they do and they play their role for the team, that’s not up for debate, but are they good footballers? I’d consider them extremely limited, which is why they’ve been assigned to be designated pressure players. Good players can offer both offensively and defensively - Cotchin, Prestia, Bolton, Edwards, Lambert, etc.

 

[Lampers]

But your reasoning for Nank/Soldo not getting a game at Melbourne still applies to Grundy/Nic Nat. Now you’re back-pedalling. So you’re happy to adjust Melbourne’s structure to accomodate Nic Nat and Grundy but not for Nank and Soldo? Why? All four aforementioned ruckmen are clear upgrades on Jackson.

You’ve gone all Richo in the commentary box. Petrified of sounding biased so you end up overcompensating by saying dumb sh*t and agreeing with delusional Melbourne supporters who are brimming with confidence because it’s the off season.

Comparing two of the top three rucks in the competition with Nankervis and Soldo... just wow.

I agree all those rucks are superior to Jackson today. Naitanui A grade, Grundy also A grade but had a B+ season. Nankervis B-, Soldo C and Jackson would be E grade as a first ruck. Maybe Soldo would lift that grade as a consistent leading ruck - assuming he can come back from the knee - but I’d back Preuss in to increase his on paper statistical superiority over Soldo now he’s at GWS.

If a club was fortunate enough to have all of Gawn, Grundy and Naitanui I suspect they’d try and find a way to make it work, but probably couldn’t. Structurally it’s damn near impossible to have two clear first rucks who struggle in alternative roles without making big compromises, never mind the ego problems likely to occur, let alone three of them.

If a club had one of those three top rucks and Nankervis/Soldo, well, they would probably just play the top ruck and supplement him with an inferior ruck, and keep those Richmond rucks as backups in case of injury. Maybe partnering Naitanui given his poor endurance you’d play one of the Richmond rucks, but you’d probably prefer to partner them with versatile players who aren’t dreadful in the ruck instead (like Jackson or Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

or your tallest forward).

The fact Richmond supporters think you’re over the top should be enough for you. You’ve jumped the shark.

What on earth makes you think Melbourne supporters are brimming with confidence? Pointing out your severe over confidence does not mean confidence in Melbourne.

 

[JayJ20]

But your reasoning for Nank/Soldo not getting a game at Melbourne still applies to Grundy/Nic Nat. Now you’re back-pedalling. So you’re happy to adjust Melbourne’s structure to accomodate Nic Nat and Grundy but not for Nank and Soldo? Why? All four aforementioned ruckmen are clear upgrades on Jackson.

You’ve gone all Richo in the commentary box. Petrified of sounding biased so you end up overcompensating by saying dumb sh*t and agreeing with delusional Melbourne supporters who are brimming with confidence because it’s the off season.

He hasn't gone all Richo. You've gone full Basil with how inaccurate you are.

 

[Solska]

Comparing two of the top three rucks in the competition with Nankervis and Soldo... just wow.

I agree all those rucks are superior to Jackson today. Naitanui A grade, Grundy also A grade but had a B+ season. Nankervis B-, Soldo C and Jackson would be E grade as a first ruck. Maybe Soldo would lift that grade as a consistent leading ruck - assuming he can come back from the knee - but I’d back Preuss in to increase his on paper statistical superiority over Soldo now he’s at GWS.

If a club was fortunate enough to have all of Gawn, Grundy and Naitanui I suspect they’d try and find a way to make it work, but probably couldn’t. Structurally it’s damn near impossible to have two clear first rucks who struggle in alternative roles without making big compromises, never mind the ego problems likely to occur, let alone three of them.

If a club had one of those three top rucks and Nankervis/Soldo, well, they would probably just play the top ruck and supplement him with an inferior ruck, and keep those Richmond rucks as backups in case of injury. Maybe partnering Naitanui given his poor endurance you’d play one of the Richmond rucks, but you’d probably prefer to partner them with versatile players who aren’t dreadful in the ruck instead (like Jackson or Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

or your tallest forward).

The fact Richmond supporters think you’re over the top should be enough for you. You’ve jumped the shark.

What on earth makes you think Melbourne supporters are brimming with confidence? Pointing out your severe over confidence does not mean confidence in Melbourne.

Actually agree with a lot of what you’ve written, but we’re going around in circles now.

As for EJW, every supporter base has these types. More concerned with being liked than rightfully defending Richmond players. Will throw fellow supporters under the bus just to get cheap likes from opposition fans. It doesn’t bother me. It’s just an act that you have fallen for unfortunately. I blame Richo.

 

[Solska]

He hasn't gone all Richo. You've gone full Basil with how inaccurate you are.

Here’s another one who has fallen for it.

 

[Lampers]

Actually agree with a lot of what you’ve written, but we’re going around in circles now.

As for EJW, every supporter base has these types. More concerned with being liked than rightfully defending Richmond players. Will throw fellow supporters under the bus just to get cheap likes from opposition fans. It doesn’t bother me. It’s just an act that you have fallen for unfortunately. I blame Richo.

If by “fallen for” you mean called out as a likely troll almost immediately,,p then yep, well done.

Blindly defending your club’s players is for idiots. EJW seems level headed and sensible.

 

[Solska]

If by “fallen for” you mean called out as a likely troll almost immediately,,p then yep, well done.

Blindly defending your club’s players is for idiots. EJW seems level headed and sensible.

Haven’t blindly defended anyone. Actually just criticised three Richmond players above if you had bothered to read the thread in it’s entirety. Nice input though.

 

[Blackas87]

There’s no rule which states Melbourne are only allowed to play one ruckman. They may prefer it because they have no better option as it stands (similar to Richmond playing one KPF in 17), but if they had Nank they’d make an adjustment to their structure.

Would weaken Melbourne in the ruck if they played 2 ruckman unless one was Nic Nat or Grundy.

Richmond didn’t bring in an average KPF just play 2 KPF, they brought in Lynch who is a star on Grundy and Nic Nat’s talent level.

Nank’s talent levels aren’t enough to change the structure at Melbourne

 

[Solska]

Would weaken Melbourne in the ruck if they played 2 ruckman unless one was Nic Nat or Grundy.

Richmond didn’t bring in an average KPF just play 2 KPF, they brought in Lynch who is a star on Grundy and Nic Nat’s talent level.

Nank’s talent levels aren’t enough to change the structure at Melbourne

But you’ll carry Jackson who is (according to one of your fellow supporters) an E grade ruckman. And I’m assuming no better than E grade as a forward either.

Nankervis is a marginally superior forward than Jackson and a vastly superior ruckman than him. If you played Nank in the ruck as much as you played Jackson, then how do you become weakened in that area?

 

[Blackas87]

But you’ll carry Jackson who is (according to one of your fellow supporters) an E grade ruckman. And I’m assuming no better than E grade as a forward either.

Nankervis is a marginally superior forward than Jackson and a vastly superior ruckman than him. If you played Nank in the ruck as much as you played Jackson, then how do you become weakened in that area?

I responded to you saying there is no rule Melbourne are only allowed to play one ruckman. Nank would not change Melbourne’s structure to play 2 ruckman.

As for Jackson you are comparing a 19 year old off his debut season to a 26 year old who’s been around a number of years building his body up. Jackson is getting a game based off his pure talent and not his body readiness. If Melbourne wanted a body ready forward they wouldn’t bring in Nankervis

 

[juss]

I just think it’s somewhat wishful thinking that somehow young players will come on better then history suggests. The important core players of your side still have probably another 2-3 years before the drop off but after that most other sides have a younger group with a lot higher ceiling coming through imo. The holes you have coming are two KPF and probably three starting mids. Arguably the 5 most important spots to fill. Trying to replace 5 guns is never easy especially from the top of the ladder with no top end picks.

In reality we aren't going to replace a premiership list, you never really can. There'll be a dip down the ladder at some point for sure but hopefully a few pieces in place that help the next rise and cycle.