Autopsy Swans Defeat Cats : Buddy Franklin kicks 1000 Goals!!! Time to Party!!

[Kirkswan]

Got smashed in centre clearances 11-18 but won stoppage clearances 21-17. Contested possessions were even. I remember that being a point of emphasis in preseason.

Check the stats prior to Buddy's goal... that last five minutes cruelled us badly!

 

[Kirkswan]

Bad kicking is bad football. If you think of every passage of play as a series of disposals, to reach the end goal of getting it between the big sticks, the final chain in that disposal has to be an accurate kick. If it misses, then it's no different to a handball in the middle of the ground that is fumbled and turned over, or a kick inside 50 that misses its target and is intercepted. If a team kept doing those things over and over, no one would say they're playing well, so I'm not sure why missing goals over and over is seen any differently.

Our goalkicking was just brilliant.

Absolutely 100% this

The reality is that if you take it inside 50 and kick a goal, it goes to a centre bounce; opportunity over. If you take it inside 50 and miss it, you may get another opportunity on the way out... or perhaps several opportunities... And that doesn't take into consideration rushed behinds (5). When you are kicking poorly, counting inside 50s and saying that you could've/should've one, is just rubbish!

Add to that, how many of those were in the last five and half minutes...

Selwood (25 disposals, 2 tackles) and Dangerfield (13 disposals, 2 tackles) were pretty well held all night...

We played better on the night... the boys stuck to their roles and played it out, and they kicked damn straight!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Glad to be there was a great event.

Thought Buddy aside, Mills surely gets the 3 Brownlow votes. Coming off a limited pre season he looks cherry ripe.

 

[caesar88]

Am loving that the young mids are putting in some not just impressive youngster performances but some genuine big games.

Florent with 20 disposals and 3 goals.
Warner with 25 disposals in the guts.
Heeney with 25 disposals and 3 goals.
Mills with 29 disposals and an outstanding defensive job on Dangerfield.

These are proper performances that get votes. So they are really stepping up, not just adding support.

I feel like Stephens and Errol may join them soon. I reckon they're on the brink of big, breakout games in the midfield.

 

[Kirkswan]

Am loving that the young mids are putting in some not just impressive youngster performances but some genuine big games.

Florent with 20 disposals and 3 goals.
Warner with 25 disposals in the guts.
Heeney with 25 disposals and 3 goals.
Mills with 29 disposals and an outstanding defensive job on Dangerfield.

These are proper performances that get votes. So they are really stepping up, not just adding support.

I feel like Stephens and Errol may join them soon. I reckon they're on the brink of big, breakout games in the midfield.

Top 10 for disposals Friday night... Stephens was 11...

 

[Tesla Tenet]

I have no idea what this is supposed to show. Are they fast? In comparison to who and what? What is the impact of it?

It shows your average speed when whilst running towards back 50. Chasing, setting up etc. No Geelong mids work as hard as our mids to help their defence.

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[Ticky009]

It shows your average speed when whilst running towards back 50. Chasing, setting up etc. No Geelong mids work as hard as our mids to help their defence.

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

Thanks so much for the explanation.

 

[Wolftone]

no ... just friggin no! totally unnecessary ... he's not racking up stats but he's not doing much wrong either
he's being groomed to take over as our key forward so leave him right where he is to learn what he can playing as close as possible next to our current key forward
i'm sure he'd rather play his smaller role in seniors, next to franklin, heeney, et al, than run around in seconds for some meaningless goals ...
also, the more he plays in the seniors the more he learns about the way they play ... which also will be very important over the next several years

The seniors and reserves play the same style. If they didn't it would be plain stupid. So I don't see your point there. Wrong? No. He needs to keep his confidence up, not let it drown in the AFL side. If a player is in his situation they can lose confidence, Best to get afew great performances into him in the reserves and then bring him back.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

The seniors and reserves play the same style. If they didn't it would be plain stupid. So I don't see your point there. Wrong? No. He needs to keep his confidence up, not let it drown in the AFL side. If a player is in his situation they can lose confidence, Best to get afew great performances into him in the reserves and then bring him back.

Had few good marks on Friday, yeah should have kicked the goal, not worried about that as he normally kicks them. We are also winning easily we can carry a young player who is learning.

 

[Wolftone]

Not sure I agree with this rusty. For two reasons.

1. We have an extremely competitive line-up at the moment, and if we maintain our form, we'll be challenging for finals, maybe top four. So we can ill afford passengers for too long. The key to maintaining our competitiveness will be having players who are always in form. So if Amartey's in goal kicking form in the VFL, or Ladhams, and Logan continues to struggle, how long are you prepared to wait to make that switch?

2. A lot of the time the senior side isn't the best way to learn and develop. In recent years we've seen players like Hayward and Blakey struggle for some time in the senior side, their confidence seemingly plummet, and then eventually get dropped (in Blakey's case, this happened twice). When they came back, they were rejuvenated and had improved and worked on their game. Sometimes if it's a players' individual game they need to work on, doing so at a lower level is far better for them than trying to do so whilst also juggling their role within the high-intensity senior team.

FWIW I would not drop Logan just yet. The forward line ain't broke, and I'd want to see a bit of a bigger body of work from the VFL forwards before considering them. But I think to suggest that Logan being dropped shouldn't happen at all is counter-productive, both to the team and to Logan himself.

I agree with all of this bar dropping him back. The reserves are where players learn their trade. The other thing is if a player is not playing well and we bring in another who just might play a few good games it is beneficial both ways. The Reserves are not some kind of purgatory that a player gets sent to drown in. Reserves are a place players go to fix up problems with their game, attitude, endurance etc. It is also a place where the game plan can be imprinted in the players mind. Hayward went back twice, Blakey too, Mitchell many times, Dawson learnt our game plan there over 2 years, Hewett did a 2 year apprenticeship there. McDonald is a young key forward, with a young body. If you hadn't noticed, a lot of key players, forward or back, go back to the reserves for varying reasons, but one reason is to preserve their body.

 

[Wolftone]

See I guess that's the difference. I don't see "dropped" as a punishment. Maybe for a mature player it is, like they're not reaching some requisite that is expected of them. But for a young player, I think being dropped is simply an opportunity. You've had a taste at the highest level, you know what more needs to be done and what you need to work on, now go back to a league where you can actually do it. There's no shame in it at all.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that calling for someone to be dropped means you're being a hater, or your negative about their prospects. Last year I was accused of hating on Blakey for calling on him to be dropped. What I really want is for a player who isn't performing that great to have the best chance at getting back to their best as soon as possible. If that means they miss a few senior games in between, I think it's a really small price to pay for the reward. See: Blakey on his return from the VFL last year (and Hayward.)

As for Logan, I don't think he's been awful, but I haven't been impressed either. I think there's a difference between not being in the bests and being in our worst two or three performers, as he has been the first two matches. Not many would be in that position and avoid scrutiny, and I don't think Logan should be any different just because of his talent.

Agree with everything. Being dropped gives an opportunity to a young player to hone the talents. I have been dropped many times and I always knew the reason, I did not work hard enough on the track and that translated to not being able to compete a a decent level. I am not saying Logan is not working hard enough, he is, it is his positioning and the fact he is being asked to compete in pack mark situations i worry about. I worry about him deep, like Bud, as I don't think he is a great pack mark. If he is leading from a deeper position yes. I love him on the lead. This is his strength. Sure he can take the occasional big grab but with his immature body I am worried about him in amongst the big packs at this stage. McLean, Ladhams and Amartey are the big pack marks. They have the mature bodies to crash the packs. Logan is not built that way. He is a leading player or a one on one specialist. He will beat most players one on one at least 75% of the time. He is that Modra shape body, although Modra took some of the great screamers, his main stock in trade was the fast lead & one on one play.

So, I am not saying he is not a good player. I think he could be a star. But, key players take time to develop and sometimes there is room in their development to drop back and learn their trade. To be able to practice the moves that are needed at a level that is a little less furious than FL. The perfect their skills base and return a much more complete player. being able then to translate everything they have worked on at AFL level. See Blakey & Hayward and of course Tom Mitchell for this example

 

[SGBeach]

Agree with everything. Being dropped gives an opportunity to a young player to hone the talents. I have been dropped many times and I always knew the reason, I did not work hard enough on the track and that translated to not being able to compete a a decent level. I am not saying Logan is not working hard enough, he is, it is his positioning and the fact he is being asked to compete in pack mark situations i worry about. I worry about him deep, like Bud, as I don't think he is a great pack mark. If he is leading from a deeper position yes. I love him on the lead. This is his strength. Sure he can take the occasional big grab but with his immature body I am worried about him in amongst the big packs at this stage. McLean, Ladhams and Amartey are the big pack marks. They have the mature bodies to crash the packs. Logan is not built that way. He is a leading player or a one on one specialist. He will beat most players one on one at least 75% of the time. He is that Modra shape body, although Modra took some of the great screamers, his main stock in trade was the fast lead & one on one play.

So, I am not saying he is not a good player. I think he could be a star. But, key players take time to develop and sometimes there is room in their development to drop back and learn their trade. To be able to practice the moves that are needed at a level that is a little less furious than FL. The perfect their skills base and return a much more complete player. being able then to translate everything they have worked on at AFL level. See Blakey & Hayward and of course Tom Mitchell for this example

Happy to leave it to Horse and the other coaches including development staff, to make the decision on whether he (or anyone) plays in the 1sts or 2s. They seem to have a good handle on how best to develop young players

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Happy to leave it to Horse and the other coaches including development staff, to make the decision on whether he (or anyone) plays in the 1sts or 2s. They seem to have a good handle on how best to develop young players

We also are in the fortunate position where we are winning by 30+ both weeks. We can carry a young kid who will improve. He’s done better this year than half the games Reid played

 

[Wolftone]

IMO no it's not sustainable.

But it could also be balanced out by the fact that our kinda new-look back six and midfields will hopefully start clicking more with each game, which will reduce the opposition's scoring chances.

What sort of entries are they getting these shots from? They were very shallow entries where their players decided to go for goal becuase there were no other options. We need to cut that down but we at the same time need to make the most of our time in forward 50. Our forwards are damaging but sometimes our delivery, especially when we set up the forward defensive zone and they turn it over, has been just a bomb back in. Not good enough to have the ball in the forward 50 for 5 minutes and score 1 goal.

I agree our mids need to restrict their opponents. This will come as the mids get more cohesion as you say. We need to stop giving away dolly turnovers. At least four in the back half, two of which resulted in goals, and several more in the forward half. There was one play where Blakey streamed out of the back half, through the centre and put the ball directly onto the chest of Stewart. That sort of stuff kills you. The Lloyd two were just astounding. I know, not every kick will be perfect but giving away easy goals or just kicking to their defence is a waste of energy and very damaging.

 

[caesar88]

Top 10 for disposals Friday night... Stephens was 11...

View attachment 1356761

Yep, he went from a solid but flawed 16 possessions in the opening round to a far more composed 21 possessions on Friday night. His confidence is growing and he has no issues finding the ball at all, so it's only a matter of time before he has a big breakout performance.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Another funny story just on SEN. Jason Kimberley (son of Craig) set up a picnic. Ramps passed by and said hello. They offered him a beer or champagne which he knocked back but he did accept a pie!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Another funny story just on SEN. Jason Kimberley (son of Craig) set up a picnic. Ramps passed by and said hello. They offered him a beer or champagne which he knocked back but he did accept a pie!

What flavour pie lol

 

[Wolftone]

Out.

I think selection looks at a bunch of different things, which includes the opposing match ups.

There’ll be occasions when all of Bell, Wicks, Papley and Gulden play and others where we get the 3 talls.

But none of that says McDonald is shit, as some seem to be suggesting.

I am definitely not suggesting Logan is shit. In fact I believe there is huge upside. He just needs to develop a bit more. We also need to play a style that suits him when entering the forward line. He is a lead up player that is being asked to play pack mark player. Part of his development? Maybe. But not one I would encourage. He is not that player, unless he can get a run at the ball, like a Reid. Reid does not take many pack marks in the middle of a pack, he normally takes them from a run into or across the pack. I think McDonald is similar. What's more I worry about an under-developed body in those big packs. i remember a 16 year old Craig Budderick who debuted for Glenelg on a wing. He could kick 70 metres and was a huge talent. He ended up at CHF as he was about 193cm and was battered to death. Was drafted by Swans but by the time he got here his body was shot. Never played a game and ended up only playing 66 SANFL games. If he had been managed better by Glenelg, and allowed to let his body develop, he could have been a star.

 

[Nuggetz]

Worst part of camp and excursions, the constant head counts to make sure you haven't lost anyone and the awful feeling when you miscount one short.

or when someone chucks a stink bomb at you

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Another funny story just on SEN. Jason Kimberley (son of Craig) set up a picnic. Ramps passed by and said hello. They offered him a beer or champagne which he knocked back but he did accept a pie!

I used to know Jason's sister.

 

[Wolftone]

Check the stats prior to Buddy's goal... that last five minutes cruelled us badly!

i agree there. I think the break helped them far more than us.

 

[Jewelsbon]

i agree there. I think the break helped them far more than us.

Nothing to do with the break, looked to me like we had mentally checked out and the Cats were trying to make it look more respectable.
I reckon many of the stats would have looked very different if they'd called time after the kick.

 

[Ticky009]

Nothing to do with the break, looked to me like we had mentally checked and they were trying to make it look more respectable.
I reckon many of the stats would have looked very different if they'd called time after the kick.

I remember Heeney having a laugh and saying their stats in the last 5 mins was awful. Was a bit like the guy who'd won a million bucks laughing at a parking ticket.

 

[Nool Carpenna]

Am loving that the young mids are putting in some not just impressive youngster performances but some genuine big games.

Florent with 20 disposals and 3 goals.
Warner with 25 disposals in the guts.
Heeney with 25 disposals and 3 goals.
Mills with 29 disposals and an outstanding defensive job on Dangerfield.

These are proper performances that get votes. So they are really stepping up, not just adding support.

I feel like Stephens and Errol may join them soon. I reckon they're on the brink of big, breakout games in the midfield.

What’s pleasing for me is the collective endeavour of our kids. They are sooo f***** hungry and relentless in pursuing the ball and it is an even contribution.
Rowbottom, Florent and Warner all have that uncanny ability to receive the ball in traffic and in a couple of steps completely wrong foot the pack… absolute life savers for anyone battling nerves thru the game.
Thought Errol was best on in Q1… Scotty obviously had somebody look after him for the rest of the game. And I think that was a key to our win… that every one of our guys are taking the game on while many of the Cats do little more than play a countering role.
After switching on late but fighting our way back into it, that 4 goal burst… Heeney, Maclean, Mills then Hayward, early in the second saw the Cat’s heads dropping. Close offered a glimmer of hope with a couple of quick ones but the white flag was hoisted for good when our boys effortlessly countered with two for Heeney in quick time before the long break.
Loved Blakey from the kick in feigning left then putting it in Luke’s lap 40m down the centre. Campbell’s contested mark in D50. Selwood getting marched downfield for a late high on Harry. Two beautiful spoils from Dane and Paddy looking like a veteran backman.
And then the Bud… just lapping up the adulation. The roar after his first was crazy good… enough, I think, to have the Cats accepting the allocated role as extras on the night.
I know it’s early days and teams are still finding their feet but, other than the Dees, none look to have threats all over the park like our guys… amazing transformation in such little time!

 

[dosser]

Just a random observation. I have noticed that several times during the first two games Gulden has found himself alone in our D50 with the entire ground open before him. He then takes off up the middle and bounces once or twice before delivering it into our forwards. It has happened more than once so I am wondering if it is a planned move, and if so I will see if I can work out how they are engineering his positioning for the transition and the space that is so open before him.