Autopsy Swans Defeat Cats : Buddy Franklin kicks 1000 Goals!!! Time to Party!!

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Be great if the commentary wasn't 30 seconds in front of the pics and sound on the match replay on afl.com

And just so happens in the 4th quarter…

Can someone update me when this is fixed? I was living yesterday when the 4th quarter was ruined so I turned it off until it’s sorted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rustycrate]

Not sure I agree with this rusty. For two reasons.

1. We have an extremely competitive line-up at the moment, and if we maintain our form, we'll be challenging for finals, maybe top four. So we can ill afford passengers for too long. The key to maintaining our competitiveness will be having players who are always in form. So if Amartey's in goal kicking form in the VFL, or Ladhams, and Logan continues to struggle, how long are you prepared to wait to make that switch?

2. A lot of the time the senior side isn't the best way to learn and develop. In recent years we've seen players like Hayward and Blakey struggle for some time in the senior side, their confidence seemingly plummet, and then eventually get dropped (in Blakey's case, this happened twice). When they came back, they were rejuvenated and had improved and worked on their game. Sometimes if it's a players' individual game they need to work on, doing so at a lower level is far better for them than trying to do so whilst also juggling their role within the high-intensity senior team.

FWIW I would not drop Logan just yet. The forward line ain't broke, and I'd want to see a bit of a bigger body of work from the VFL forwards before considering them. But I think to suggest that Logan being dropped shouldn't happen at all is counter-productive, both to the team and to Logan himself.

I was not advocating that Logan should not be dropped if there is a better option available.
What I was saying that just because McDonald isn't in the bests every week, to drop him would not aid his development. I actually think, especially for long periods, that it would be counterproductive.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Not sure I agree with this rusty. For two reasons.

1. We have an extremely competitive line-up at the moment, and if we maintain our form, we'll be challenging for finals, maybe top four. So we can ill afford passengers for too long. The key to maintaining our competitiveness will be having players who are always in form. So if Amartey's in goal kicking form in the VFL, or Ladhams, and Logan continues to struggle, how long are you prepared to wait to make that switch?

2. A lot of the time the senior side isn't the best way to learn and develop. In recent years we've seen players like Hayward and Blakey struggle for some time in the senior side, their confidence seemingly plummet, and then eventually get dropped (in Blakey's case, this happened twice). When they came back, they were rejuvenated and had improved and worked on their game. Sometimes if it's a players' individual game they need to work on, doing so at a lower level is far better for them than trying to do so whilst also juggling their role within the high-intensity senior team.

FWIW I would not drop Logan just yet. The forward line ain't broke, and I'd want to see a bit of a bigger body of work from the VFL forwards before considering them. But I think to suggest that Logan being dropped shouldn't happen at all is counter-productive, both to the team and to Logan himself.

"dropped" indicates a form of punishment for failing to meet certain requirements ... mcdonald is, and deserves to stay, a senior player ...
this is an argument i was involved in at this time last season, when it was clear we had a core of potentially very good young players ... they are not all going to star every week, that's the nature of a team ...
how is mcdonald struggling??!! he still seems to be chasing and harassing, getting involved whenever he's near the ball, providing a link in the forward half, maybe even playing a decoy role ...
he's not going to be the first or second or even third option in this side at the moment ... but he WILL get his chances

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I was not advocating that Logan should not be dropped if there is a better option available.
What I was saying that just because McDonald isn't in the bests every week, to drop him would not aid his development. I actually think, especially for long periods, that it would be counterproductive.

Ugle-Hagen, Thilthorpe - one quiet game and they’re dropped.

That can smash a player’s confidence & I rarely see “yo-yo players” improve.

A string of quiet games - sure. But not one (or two).

 

[Mister B]

“I got someone to do a headcount in the rooms and realised we were about five short and I felt a bit like a kindergarten teacher trying to look around where all the kids were.

Love this quote and its soo true. Our team is a bunch of kids with a few older blokes and the teacher everyone loves

Worst part of camp and excursions, the constant head counts to make sure you haven't lost anyone and the awful feeling when you miscount one short.

 

[caesar88]

"dropped" indicates a form of punishment for failing to meet certain requirements ... mcdonald is, and deserves to stay, a senior player ...
this is an argument i was involved in at this time last season, when it was clear we had a core of potentially very good young players ... they are not all going to star every week, that's the nature of a team ...
how is mcdonald struggling??!! he still seems to be chasing and harassing, getting involved whenever he's near the ball, providing a link in the forward half, maybe even playing a decoy role ...
he's not going to be the first or second or even third option in this side at the moment ... but he WILL get his chances

See I guess that's the difference. I don't see "dropped" as a punishment. Maybe for a mature player it is, like they're not reaching some requisite that is expected of them. But for a young player, I think being dropped is simply an opportunity. You've had a taste at the highest level, you know what more needs to be done and what you need to work on, now go back to a league where you can actually do it. There's no shame in it at all.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that calling for someone to be dropped means you're being a hater, or your negative about their prospects. Last year I was accused of hating on Blakey for calling on him to be dropped. What I really want is for a player who isn't performing that great to have the best chance at getting back to their best as soon as possible. If that means they miss a few senior games in between, I think it's a really small price to pay for the reward. See: Blakey on his return from the VFL last year (and Hayward.)

As for Logan, I don't think he's been awful, but I haven't been impressed either. I think there's a difference between not being in the bests and being in our worst two or three performers, as he has been the first two matches. Not many would be in that position and avoid scrutiny, and I don't think Logan should be any different just because of his talent.

 

[caesar88]

Ugle-Hagen, Thilthorpe - one quiet game and they’re dropped.

That can smash a player’s confidence & I rarely see “yo-yo players” improve.

A string of quiet games - sure. But not one (or two).

Agree with this. Wouldn't drop him yet. He could come good.

 

[rustycrate]

Agree with this. Wouldn't drop him yet. He could come good.

I would not drop him anyway because he is playing good. Like Hypnotoad says he is chasing and leading and tackling etc.
If you can name glaring mistakes he made this year then I would agree with you. I watch him close and I see his communication with the forwards like Heeney and Buddy on field and in the change rooms. I see him sitting next to Buddy.
He belongs in this company until he doesn't.

 

[robbieando]

I would not drop him anyway because he is playing good. Like Hypnotoad says he is chasing and leading and tackling etc.
If you can name glaring mistakes he made this year then I would agree with you. I watch him close and I see his communication with the forwards like Heeney and Buddy on field and in the change rooms. I see him sitting next to Buddy.
He belongs in this company until he doesn't.

He has 5 turnovers from 11 possessions. He has a grand total of 1 tackle from 2 matches. 2 marks inside 50 from 6 marks in total. He isn't playing well enough by any subjective measure to stay in the side when we have to fit in Papley and McInerney into the side. It should not be at the expense of players who are performing at a greater level than McDonald currently is.

 

[caesar88]

I would not drop him anyway because he is playing good. Like Hypnotoad says he is chasing and leading and tackling etc.
If you can name glaring mistakes he made this year then I would agree with you. I watch him close and I see his communication with the forwards like Heeney and Buddy on field and in the change rooms. I see him sitting next to Buddy.
He belongs in this company until he doesn't.

I just don't think that's enough. His first two games read:

0.1, 5 possessions, 1 tackle, 8 pressure acts

0.0, 6 possessions, 0 tackles, 8 pressure acts

So he's not hitting the scoreboard, he's not finding the ball, he's not tackling, and he's not offering much by way of pressure either.

If McLean, Amartey or Ladhams were putting up those kinds of games, it would be unanimous they should be dropped. Logan probably deserves a little more leeway since he's younger, but I think you're seeing what you want to see with him.

Edit: I see robbieando beat me to the punch!

 

[the hypnotoad]

He has 5 turnovers from 11 possessions. He has a grand total of 1 tackle from 2 matches. 2 marks inside 50 from 6 marks in total. He isn't playing well enough by any subjective measure to stay in the side when we have to fit in Papley and McInerney into the side. It should not be at the expense of players who are performing at a greater level than McDonald currently is.

and clearly he's cost us two games ...

 

[robbieando]

and clearly he's cost us two games ...

Please point out where I said that.....

 

[rustycrate]

I just don't think that's enough. His first two games read:

0.1, 5 possessions, 1 tackle, 8 pressure acts

0.0, 6 possessions, 0 tackles, 8 pressure acts

So he's not hitting the scoreboard, he's not finding the ball, he's not tackling, and he's not offering much by way of pressure either.

If McLean, Amartey or Ladhams were putting up those kinds of games, it would be unanimous they should be dropped. Logan probably deserves a little more leeway since he's younger, but I think you're seeing what you want to see with him.

Edit: I see robbieando beat me to the punch!

OK. I'm wrong again. You say he has to be dropped. What does that say about his development though.

 

[dosser]

He stays in for his development while we can afford to carry him, but if we drop a game he will probably go back to the VFL to find the ball.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Please point out where I said that.....

you didn't ... but the implication of your statistics indicates you think he should be "dropped" for not pulling his weight
i don't much care for statistics in cases such as ... he's playing a role in a winning team, with a future role very much in the sights of coaches ...
rather than just spouting stats, actually come up with a good reason to drop him ...
but it won't matter, i don't think there's a reason for him not to be in the senior side, and not much is going to sway me

 

[the hypnotoad]

He stays in for his development while we can afford to carry him, but if we drop a game he will probably go back to the VFL to find the ball.

yes, and that might be fair enough ...
but longer-term, dropping mcdonald is counterproductive

 

[caesar88]

OK. I'm wrong again. You say he has to be dropped. What does that say about his development though.

I never said he has to be dropped rusty. Not yet anyway. But last week we were talking about dropping Stephens after a reasonably solid 16 possession game, this week it's Wicks after 20+ pressure acts which is what he's in the team for, some had McLean being dropped last week after 2 goals. Our depth is pretty strong right now, so good players are going to be missing out most weeks. I just don't think McDonald should be exempt from that simply because of his talent.

Like I said, I'd probably keep him in since the forward line seems to be functioning and he probably deserves a bit of leeway given he's a teenager playing a challenging role. But there's also the case to be made that the side might have to be re-shuffled anyway with Papley & McInerney's impending returns likely causing some shifting of the magnets between the forward line and the midfield.

 

[robbieando]

OK. I'm wrong again. You say he has to be dropped. What does that say about his development though.

That he isn't a third tall up forward at the moment and needs to learn how to impact games if he is played there. He'll do that either by playing in the VFL and dominating there for a few weeks or working on his game so he can impact AFL football.

There is no harm in dropping him so he can develop his game as a focal point in the VFL as we expect he would be played going forward. But if he is expected to do the same thing over and over again in the seniors as an in-between tall it will take longer as that's not what he is.

 

[the hypnotoad]

That he isn't a third tall up forward at the moment and needs to learn how to impact games if he is played there. He'll do that either by playing in the VFL and dominating there for a few weeks or working on his game so he can impact AFL football.

There is no harm in dropping him so he can develop his game as a focal point in the VFL as we expect he would be played going forward. But if he is expected to do the same thing over and over again in the seniors as an in-between tall it will take longer as that's not what he is.

there's a potential harm in that he doesn't need to be dropped from a winning team

 

[rustycrate]

I never said he has to be dropped rusty. Not yet anyway. But last week we were talking about dropping Stephens after a reasonably solid 16 possession game, this week it's Wicks after 20+ pressure acts which is what he's in the team for, some had McLean being dropped last week after 2 goals. Our depth is pretty strong right now, so good players are going to be missing out most weeks. I just don't think McDonald should be exempt from that simply because of his talent.

Like I said, I'd probably keep him in since the forward line seems to be functioning and he probably deserves a bit of leeway given he's a teenager playing a challenging role. But there's also the case to be made that the side might have to be re-shuffled anyway with Papley & McInerney's impending returns likely causing some shifting of the magnets between the forward line and the midfield.

As I said before, if there is a better option available then McDonold should make way for that player. Until then he stays. I think Horse would agree with that anyway. He must be a good communicator to manage these elite athletes over such a long period of time. Must be challenging. It is imperative that we develop McDonald properly. Stuffing him around because of statistics does not sit well with me. Nor do I think the Swans would do it. But stuffing around other players like Amartey would not be good either. I expect the Swans have their list order set.

I think the Swans management have McDonalds future development in mind. We are all just spitting chips. But I think McDonald will remain in the team despite all of the statistics that have been thrown at me in the last few posts. He may need rests as young players need. That gives opportunities for others to keep him out of the team. Until that happens he remains I expect.

 

[robbieando]

you didn't ... but the implication of your statistics indicates you think he should be "dropped" for not pulling his weight
i don't much care for statistics in cases such as ... he's playing a role in a winning team, with a future role very much in the sights of coaches ...
rather than just spouting stats, actually come up with a good reason to drop him ...
but it won't matter, i don't think there's a reason for him not to be in the senior side, and not much is going to sway me

So what has he actually done to deserve to keep his spot in the side over a McInerney, a Papley, a Wicks, a Stephens? Your not very clear on what he is actually doing to keep his spot on form.

 

[Punts]

Would horse be concerned by the amount of shots the opposition have had to start the year?

Is it sustainable

 

[robbieando]

there's a potential harm in that he doesn't need to be dropped from a winning team

If that affects him then we have recruited the wrong player.

 

[the hypnotoad]

So what has he actually done to deserve to keep his spot in the side over a McInerney, a Papley, a Wicks, a Stephens? Your not very clear on what he is actually doing to keep his spot on form.

i don't have to ... if the coaches are happy the way he's going, he stays

and he's not playing for the same spot as papley, that's a stupid comment

but mainly, my argument is that this is a potential 10-year star forward being given the opportunity to play alongside a generational superstar in the twilight of his career ... mcdonald doesn't need to be taking 10 marks and kicking five goals a game
if we were being thumped each week, obviously there'd be far more intense scrutiny on him ...

 

[Gimmeafree]

At least in the pandemonium of Friday night, none of our missing 5 were found wrapped around the dreaded Moore Park chain fence.