List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2021 offseason edition

[Keys]

So the 2021 season is officially done and dusted.

It’s time now to fully turn our attention to the off season and what we can do through the trade period/draft to chase down Melbourne in 2022.

List and personnel changes have already been made and I’ll update this OP as and when any further changes are made.

As it stands these are our official list changes :

Out -
• Venables (R) - retired
• Vardy - retired
• Hutchings (R) - delisted
• Ah Chee (R) - delisted
• Ainsworth - delisted
• Johnson - delisted
• Collins (R) - delisted
• Brander - cluster****
• Cameron - retired/delisted not that it was officially acknowledged by the club
• Sheppard - retired

Inactive listed -
• Cole
• Chesser

In -
• Petrevski-Seton - traded for pick 52
• Chesser - Pick 14
• Hough - Pick 31
• Bazzo - Pick 37
• Williams (Jack) - Pick 57
• Clark - Pick 62
• Dixon - SSP
• Joyce - SSP
• Strnadica - SSP
• Naish - SSP

Players on main list - 37 (Including 2 inactive)
Players on rookie list - 7

Future trade picks :
In - Port Adelaide future 2nd
Out - Future 4th

Assistant Coaches :
• Out - Graham, Hickmott
• In - Schofield (Strategy and Stoppage), Knights (Midfield), Wiley (WAFL coach), Brennan (development)

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[Miguel Sanchez]

I reckon it’s confidence. At WAFL level he reads the play and judges the flight better than anyone. He just needs to get comfortable and feel like he belongs at senior level.

Unfortunately being in a defensive unit that’s copping 65 inside 50s a week isn’t helping his confidence.

 

[Wce17]

Has the reach, but is slow and doesn't seem to read the ball that well.

The backline is getting bombarded with inside 50’s & burnt on turnovers so IMO it’s hard to get a read on anyone in that area.

 

[Avalor]

I would be very happy taking him, but I would actually prefer his teammate at this stage, Elijah Tsatis (spelling?) as he has more pace and a more attacking mindset from what I can see from the video highlights.

 

[MrWoollie]

The backline is getting bombarded with inside 50’s & burnt on turnovers so IMO it’s hard to get a read on anyone in that area.

Agree.
The backline would look so much better if the ball was coming in slowly and under pressure rather than quickly, with precision and no pressure through the midfield.

 

[Matera92]

He's tracking the same as Glass and Mackenzie were at the same stage of their careers.

Calm the **** down.

 

[dinnaz]

He's tracking the same as Glass and Mackenzie were at the same stage of their careers.

Calm the fu** down.

Glass was a fwd & Mackenzie was always a terrific 1 on 1 defender. From game 1 he could play a role well.

 

[Matera92]

Glass was a fwd & Mackenzie was always a terrific 1 on 1 defender. From game 1 he could play a role well.

Yes, they were both guns at 16 games of experience.

Jesus Christ this board sometimes.

 

[Dark Sharks]

You're missing the point.

 

[Chump Change]

A lot of people seem to forget when mentioning Clayton Oliver and Marcus Bontempelli that they weren't considered to go as high as they did initially. It wasn't until later in their final year, TAC Cup etc etc that they really started to capture the recruiters eyes and even then they were still considered to be bolters up the draft. Also when Dusty and Petracca were drafted they were also nowhere near the superstars they are today.

For his first four years Petracca was averaging 18 disposals and under a goal a game despite spending a bit of time forward.

For Dustys first four years he was averaging 22 disposals a game and just over a goal despite spending time forward.

With this i make my point.

It's easy to sit here now and claim by trading down the order we will still secure the mid we want and bank another pick but we may also be throwing away the opportunity to draft a superstar. I'm not against trading down IF we still walk away with a midfileder with A grade potential otherwise i'm not interested. If they have attributes that separate them from the rest of the class we need to trust our club to develop them.

Some stars take years to develop. For every Sam Walsh there are far more Petraccas and whilst it's fun to speculate now what we will do, until the carnival comes around and the VIC boys run around for a full year i'm not prepared to say there isn't any A grade talent up the top of the order we can afford not to select.

Oh and for the record, below are all the midfielders selected between 1-7 over 7 years between 2013 & 2019

It seems pretty obvious to me there has been plenty of top end talent, even in years where people said it was thin. Certainly a lot more within the 1-5 bracket than outside of it. Some of the guys between 2016 and 2019 drafts still have more upside and growth in them.

2013 AFL draft
Pick 2 Josh Kelly (A)
Pick 4 Marcus Bontempelli (A)
Pick 7 James Aish (C)

2014 AFL draft
Pick 2 Christian Petracca (A)
Pick 3 Angus Brayshaw (B)
Pick 5 Jordan De Goey (A)

2015 AFL draft
Pick 3 Callum Mills (A)
Pick 4 Clayton Oliver (A)
Pick 5 Darcy Parish (A)
Pick 7 Jacob Hopper (B)

2016 AFL draft
Pick 1 Andrew McGrath (B)
Pick 2 Tim Taranto (A)
Pick 3 Hugh McCluggage (A)
Pick 4 Will Setterfield (C)
Pick 5 Sam Petrevski Seton (C)

2017 AFL draft
Pick 1 Cameron Rayner (B)
Pick 2 Andrew Brayshaw (A)
Pick 3 Paddy Dow (C)
Pick 4 Luke Davies-Uniacke (B)
Pick 5 Adam Cerra (A)
Pick 7 Hunter Clark (B)

2018 AFL draft
Pick 1 Sam Walsh (A)
Pick 5 Connor Rozee (A)
Pick 7 Bailey Smith (A)

2019 AFL draft
Pick 1 Matt Rowell (A)
Pick 2 Noah Anderson (A)
Pick 4 Lachlan Ash (A)
Pick 5 Dylan Stephens (C)

The Robertsons, Bruhns & Carrolls of the competition are all enticing and i would be more than happy to try and secure them but not by splitting a top 5 pick. They would be the cherry on top for any deal and nothing more.

There's a reason club don't trade top 5 picks very often and if you go back over this period and look clubs who have traded a high pick, they don't end up with much better or they regret it all together (Beams, Weller).

The only time i'd say worked out for the team prepared to trade back was the Lions when they essentially traded Taranto for McCluggage and Berry and they only slipped back from 2 to 3 so that's hardly a risk at all. GWS were just hellbent on securing Taranto.

Unless we are offered an offer too good to refuse i'm less inclined to trade our top 5 pick and more inclined to back our recruiters in identifying and developing an A grade Midfielder.

Totally with that.

A lot of people on this board are smoking crack.

Our top pick needs to be used to draft the (perceived) best midfielder possible in the draft.

Tsatas
Warlord
Ashcroft

I'm sure Bruhn and Robertson will be solid players but they're not a Dusty, Bont, or Cripps. We need one or two of those type players and have to give ourselves the best opportunity to choose wisely.

 

[JoshWoodenSpoon]

smh his board has lost the plot. Day in, day out, everyone's bemoaning playing the old guard, yet as soon as the name The Honourable Hugh S. Roberton is thrown up he's considered a must-have.

 

[Chump Change]

I would be very happy taking him, but I would actually prefer his teammate at this stage, Elijah Tsatis (spelling?) as he has more pace and a more attacking mindset from what I can see from the video highlights.

Tsatas

It's the speed for me at this stage. Haven't really look at the options closely but he's definitely an option.

 

[Chump Change]

View attachment 1391791

He looks zippy. And he's got one of those moustaches all the young trendy kids are rocking. We should nab him in the draft for sure.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Yes, they were both guns at 16 games of experience.

Jesus Christ this board sometimes.

Glass was one of the biggest whipping boys of all time in his early years

 

[Goroyals22]

Glass was one of the biggest whipping boys of all time in his early years

Agreed.. I remember thinking we looked better when bloody trent carroll was back there!

 

[WCE_Talk]

Wardlaw being an Oakleigh Chargers product, would Gold Coast be keen to trade up to take him and pair him with their other ex-Chargers in Rowell and Anderson?

Suns don’t really need a pure inside mid, I don’t see them having interest in Wardlaw


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[Cornelius Roy]

Jed Hagan will be available a lot later in the draft, any list manager picking him at pick 19 would be sacked on the spot


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Even better!

 

[briztoon]

+TBH I have always thought pick 1 is overrated and particularly in this draft as so far it's shown there are some real quality talls and only a few quality mids and not superstar level ready to play. More that next level down at this stage imo.

I can see GC finishing 3rd or fourth last. Assuming we finish last I can see gold coast trading up for that pick. I'd trade pick 1 for their first this year and first next year even if we have to include ports second this year. Pick 1 is always overvalued and I believe this is a very fair representation of value. It also gives them a strong hand to buy a second first round pick from Brisbane or similar.

I'd then look at trading GC first rounder next year to Sydney for 14 & 18. Sydney will still view gold coasts pick as worth 3-6 and 14+18 would very likely get across the line if Sydney wanted to move up even if it means throwing 37 back at them or some potential ruck prospect of ours..........

We'd go in with pick 4, 14,18,20 (first pick on day 2 which we may see good bids on)

Trade our future second for Deven Robertson and Brisbanes second rounder. Brisbane's second rounder for Bruhn.

Pick 4 - Hewett
Pick 14 - Broadbent
Pick 18 - Best available mid / highly skilled flanker.
Pick 20 - Best available mid / highly skilled flanker.

Potential A class mid
Future star ruck. Not as athletic as say a Grundy but will be a beast, is a great kick and great around the ground.
pick 18 fills a need
pick 20 fills a need.
Robertson
Bruhn

Again 5 potential players who could be in our next premiership push.

Delist
Joyce
Trew
West
Jamieson
Winder
Nelson
Kennedy (retire)
Hurn (retire)
Shep (retire)

Potentially tradeable players with value (only for future picks / pick upgrades)
Petch
Bailey Williams
Gaff

TBH if he's not traded i'd happily delist Bailey Williams and Keep Winder (as long as he shows consistent effort as the skill is there) or Nelson.

Retain the other 3 SSP pickups on the rookie list.

Nelson and Winder survive 1 more season as rookies if 2 of the above tradeable players move on. I'm making the assumption that list sizes will go back to 44 as well. PA will push for it. With no players traded out that gives us a list of 44. I'd be happy with that.

This makes the Assumption Shuey is relatively fine injury wise and the same with Redden. We still need some leadership in the midfield. 1 year extensions. Along with Kelly, Sheed, Naish, Clark, Edwards it's not an amazing midfield now but could be in a couple of years time.

2 Potentially ready made mids with further development ahead, a true Ruck who will be ready to be a top 5 in league ruck in 4 years, an A class midfield talent and 2 other top 20 picks.

No team is trading two potential top 5 picks to move up to pick 1 this year.

 

[briztoon]

I would be very happy taking him, but I would actually prefer his teammate at this stage, Elijah Tsatis (spelling?) as he has more pace and a more attacking mindset from what I can see from the video highlights.

Who’s going to feed him the ball?

 

[bUCKET__]

Who’s going to feed him the ball?

Tom Joyce will come good.

 

[briztoon]

A lot of people seem to forget when mentioning Clayton Oliver and Marcus Bontempelli that they weren't considered to go as high as they did initially. It wasn't until later in their final year, TAC Cup etc etc that they really started to capture the recruiters eyes and even then they were still considered to be bolters up the draft. Also when Dusty and Petracca were drafted they were also nowhere near the superstars they are today.

For his first four years Petracca was averaging 18 disposals and under a goal a game despite spending a bit of time forward.

For Dustys first four years he was averaging 22 disposals a game and just over a goal despite spending time forward.

With this i make my point.

It's easy to sit here now and claim by trading down the order we will still secure the mid we want and bank another pick but we may also be throwing away the opportunity to draft a superstar. I'm not against trading down IF we still walk away with a midfileder with A grade potential otherwise i'm not interested. If they have attributes that separate them from the rest of the class we need to trust our club to develop them.

Some stars take years to develop. For every Sam Walsh there are far more Petraccas and whilst it's fun to speculate now what we will do, until the carnival comes around and the VIC boys run around for a full year i'm not prepared to say there isn't any A grade talent up the top of the order we can afford not to select.

Oh and for the record, below are all the midfielders selected between 1-7 over 7 years between 2013 & 2019

It seems pretty obvious to me there has been plenty of top end talent, even in years where people said it was thin. Certainly a lot more within the 1-5 bracket than outside of it. Some of the guys between 2016 and 2019 drafts still have more upside and growth in them.

2013 AFL draft
Pick 2 Josh Kelly (A)
Pick 4 Marcus Bontempelli (A)
Pick 7 James Aish (C)

2014 AFL draft
Pick 2 Christian Petracca (A)
Pick 3 Angus Brayshaw (B)
Pick 5 Jordan De Goey (A)

2015 AFL draft
Pick 3 Callum Mills (A)
Pick 4 Clayton Oliver (A)
Pick 5 Darcy Parish (A)
Pick 7 Jacob Hopper (B)

2016 AFL draft
Pick 1 Andrew McGrath (B)
Pick 2 Tim Taranto (A)
Pick 3 Hugh McCluggage (A)
Pick 4 Will Setterfield (C)
Pick 5 Sam Petrevski Seton (C)

2017 AFL draft
Pick 1 Cameron Rayner (B)
Pick 2 Andrew Brayshaw (A)
Pick 3 Paddy Dow (C)
Pick 4 Luke Davies-Uniacke (B)
Pick 5 Adam Cerra (A)
Pick 7 Hunter Clark (B)

2018 AFL draft
Pick 1 Sam Walsh (A)
Pick 5 Connor Rozee (A)
Pick 7 Bailey Smith (A)

2019 AFL draft
Pick 1 Matt Rowell (A)
Pick 2 Noah Anderson (A)
Pick 4 Lachlan Ash (A)
Pick 5 Dylan Stephens (C)

The Robertsons, Bruhns & Carrolls of the competition are all enticing and i would be more than happy to try and secure them but not by splitting a top 5 pick. They would be the cherry on top for any deal and nothing more.

There's a reason club don't trade top 5 picks very often and if you go back over this period and look clubs who have traded a high pick, they don't end up with much better or they regret it all together (Beams, Weller).

The only time i'd say worked out for the team prepared to trade back was the Lions when they essentially traded Taranto for McCluggage and Berry and they only slipped back from 2 to 3 so that's hardly a risk at all. GWS were just hellbent on securing Taranto.

Unless we are offered an offer too good to refuse i'm less inclined to trade our top 5 pick and more inclined to back our recruiters in identifying and developing an A grade Midfielder.

Petracca was dominant as an U18 and was viewed as the best, can’t miss prospect since the Hodge/Judd draft.

It’s just that the Saints needed a key forward so bad, that he went pick 2.

The fact that it took him a while to reach his ceiling is more down to his lack of endurance and lack of professionalism in his early years.


The vast majority of high end players still take a couple of years to reach their potential, and that’s usually only if they have a good core around them.

Walsh had Cripps to protect him, and draw the focus of opposition midfields.

Oliver had Gawn, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney, Harmes, etc.

Bontempeli had Libba, Macrae and the rest of the Dogs midfield to draw the focus off him.

As we’re seeing at the Suns and North, it doesn’t matter how good the kids are, if there aren’t enough quality senior players around them, the team is going to struggle badly for a long time.

 

[EagleMan87]

Glass was a fwd & Mackenzie was always a terrific 1 on 1 defender. From game 1 he could play a role well.

MacKenzie was hot garbage in his first game. I still remember people on here bitching about how terrible he was.

 

[briztoon]

Tsatas

It's the speed for me at this stage. Haven't really look at the options closely but he's definitely an option.

I would love you to draft Tsatis.

The melts on here when you realise you’ve drafted a winger, who’s 5 or 6 years away from potentially being able to play on ball.

 

[eagles rule]

Jed Hagan will be available a lot later in the draft, any list manager picking him at pick 19 would be sacked on the spot


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Hope your spreading this on the drafting board ..

 

[ghostbat12]

We should send thanks to all freo fans and the club for trying very hard this week to ensure we get a draft pick as high as possible.

Fake some Covid cases. Good work lads.

 

[ThePuma #9]

Petracca was dominant as an U18 and was viewed as the best, can’t miss prospect since the Hodge/Judd draft.

It’s just that the Saints needed a key forward so bad, that he went pick 2.

The fact that it took him a while to reach his ceiling is more down to his lack of endurance and lack of professionalism in his early years.


The vast majority of high end players still take a couple of years to reach their potential, and that’s usually only if they have a good core around them.

Walsh had Cripps to protect him, and draw the focus of opposition midfields.

Oliver had Gawn, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney, Harmes, etc.

Bontempeli had Libba, Macrae and the rest of the Dogs midfield to draw the focus off him.

As we’re seeing at the Suns and North, it doesn’t matter how good the kids are, if there aren’t enough quality senior players around them, the team is going to struggle badly for a long time.

Petracca and Brayshaw were drafted a year before Oliver so they were hardly offering any protection as second year players, Max had only played 26 games in the 3 years up until Olivers draft year due to multiple ACL's. He only played 13 games that year as well. Nathan Jones & Bernie Vince were more the protection than the names you mentioned and even then apart from youngsters coming through the Demons midfield was pretty shit as evidenced by their 4-18 record in 2014, 7-15 record in 2015 and their 10-12 record in 2016.

As for Bont, yes he had protection but again it wasn't from the names you mentioned. It was from Griffen, Boyd and Cooney. Macrae & Hunter were only 19 and Libba 21.

If you're point is players need protection to develop properly then i would agree but also argue that Shuey, Kelly, Yeo and Sheed would be as good as any of the senior players mentioned above to protect any youth we bring in and Sheed, Kelly and Yeo will be around long enough to transition them into seniors.

My points are that

(A) traditionally midfielders taken in the top 5 of the draft go on to have very successful careers, certainly as close to a "sure" thing as is possible when drafting. The hit/miss ratio is at it's highest percentage at the top of the order, no?

(B) most players take time to develop, very few players come into the competition and dominate from day dot. A point you also agree on.

(C) It's too early in the year to be able to ascertain the quality of this years draft and whether we would be foolish to trade down/split our top pick.

(D) More often than not clubs are reluctant to trade away a top 5 pick and prefer to play the higher percentages of securing a top tier talent than rolling the dice and hoping to capitalize on multiple picks.