List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[tigerfan1961]

We could rebound quickly but thats if everything goes right. Clearly we will need a new coach for a rebuild. It could take us 20 years to find another coach capable of winning a flag.

Clearly we need a new coach for the rebuild? Don’t make me laugh Mate. Dimma will be there as long as he and Club feel he can take us back to the top of the mountain. And like Sheedy at Drugsville, he can do it imo. Based on what I’ve observed, he still has the group committed, and Blair and the recruiting team are trying to refresh on the run.
Patience required as we are coming off a glorious period where we did a lot right. The right people are pulling the reins imo and we will get there again, soon I hope. Even this year, if we had the Pies luck in winning the close ones, we would be top 4 and looking very threatening. But we have had zero luck with injury, only losing our better players it seems

 

[Bojangles17]

We could rebound quickly but thats if everything goes right. Clearly we will need a new coach for a rebuild. It could take us 20 years to find another coach capable of winning a flag.

What a Hair brained idea , if the swans and cats have backed their less successful coach for longer why would we think it’s a good idea to dump a triple premiership coach

 

[tiger_tough]

That is utter bullshite
You have no fudging idea

Soft as butter mate. Can't be a good KPF in this day and age without having some campaigner in you. He doesn't have it. Same as Schache, same as Weideman, same as Ben Brown.

Wouldn't give up a top 30 pick for him.

 

[Lacustrus]

Soft as butter mate. Can't be a good KPF in this day and age without having some campaigner in you. He doesn't have it. Same as Schache, same as Weideman, same as Ben Brown.

Wouldn't give up a top 30 pick for him.

Stand by my words, you have no idea what your talking about

 

[Noidnadroj]

They've been pretty damn average for 7 weeks now bar Brisbane who are dog s**t @ the G. They'll need to get motoring soon. Hopefully not though, can't stand the bastards.

If cats can maintain the rage they will s**t it in. Hawkins and Jezza are too big a task for anyone with the form they're in.

Cats for flag ..??? I said the same thing at HT of 2019 PF. Just before HT of 2020 GF I said the same thing. When 44-points up against Demons in last round of 2021 I said the same thing.

You just can’t predict what the Cats will do in September.


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[ryza87]

Most of that is unproven, or generally considered not very good on here.

Thinking we will get anything out of stack is beyond optimistic

Baker and Bolton are guns. Balta very good, could be an elite KPF. The rest have all showed plenty of promise and looked more then capable at the level.

Ralphsmith has a rising star nom, Gibcus should too, then add Sonsie and Cumberland potential noms aswell.

We have plenty of talent coming through

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Cats for flag ..??? I said the same thing at HT of 2019 PF. Just before HT of 2020 GF I said the same thing. When 44-points up against Demons in last round of 2021 I said the same thing.

You just can’t predict what the Cats will do in September.


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I beg to differ.

Last 15 timed Cats have played a team in a final who has finished top 4….. 1 win, 0 draws, 14 losses.

 

[Lacustrus]

Soft as butter mate. Can't be a good KPF in this day and age without having some campaigner in you. He doesn't have it. Same as Schache, same as Weideman, same as Ben Brown.

Wouldn't give up a top 30 pick for him.

Oh how silly of me , the club should take notice of poster tiger_tough opinions on all matters concerning second year draftees coming out of Covid disruptions because he is so obviously so clever.

So poor old MJR , ( btw a good mate of JUH) is not measuring up to his old man, must be soft , dud delist!
May as well save our money and time, and get rid of Samson Ryan and mate Colina, they haven’t done anything yet , must be soft as butter, dud delist!

I’ve heard some idiotic comments on this forum , but you take the biscuit!

 

[banzai]

What a Hair brained idea , if the swans and cats have backed their less successful coach for longer why would we think it’s a good idea to dump a triple premiership coach

We wont dump him. Didnt he say on 360 that he wont be around once this run is over? He's not staying for a rebuild.

 

[tiger_tough]

Oh how silly of me , the club should take notice of poster tiger_tough opinions on all matters concerning second year draftees coming out of Covid disruptions because he is so obviously so clever.

So poor old MJR , ( btw a good mate of JUH) is not measuring up to his old man, must be soft , dud delist!
May as well save our money and time, and get rid of Samson Ryan and mate Colina, they haven’t done anything yet , must be soft as butter, dud delist!

I’ve heard some idiotic comments on this forum , but you take the biscuit!

Are you ok? Have I offended you? Are you a relative of JUH or something? I didn't have a crack at you, so not sure why you're saying how silly of me?

No the club shouldn't shouldn't and wouldn't take note of anyone on here, strange comment.

For starters MRJ isn't a KPF so not sure why you've gone off on a tangent there. Yes I'm well aware they're mates, they roomed together at Scotch.

Samson Ryan has mongrel in spades so not only a strange comparison, but a dumb one. Colina has played for 2 seconds and is also a ruckman. But most Croats are firey bastards.

Really strange post. It was just an opinion on a public forum. Relax.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Clearly we need a new coach for the rebuild? Don’t make me laugh Mate. Dimma will be there as long as he and Club feel he can take us back to the top of the mountain. And like Sheedy at Drugsville, he can do it imo. Based on what I’ve observed, he still has the group committed, and Blair and the recruiting team are trying to refresh on the run.
Patience required as we are coming off a glorious period where we did a lot right. The right people are pulling the reins imo and we will get there again, soon I hope. Even this year, if we had the Pies luck in winning the close ones, we would be top 4 and looking very threatening. But we have had zero luck with injury, only losing our better players it seems

Dimma has coached brilliantly this season. Lots of injuries to key players. Started 2-4. And but for some bad luck (Prestia) and inexplicable mental meltdowns (take your pick) we’d be 12-5 at worst.

Do you blame the coach for Castagna and Aarts brains fades? For Jack kicking 2.6? For the team kicking 11.22? For Dusty missing most of season? For multiple soft tissue injuries to key planks like Balta and Lynch?

We’ve lost 6 games when leading in the last quarter. Next most is Hawks with 4. Most for teams in the top-8 is 2. I’m not saying the coach is not partly responsible for the fade outs, but that number of losses when leading in the last quarter is an absolute anomaly. If we can be leading that many games into the last quarter in 2023 we will be contending.

The point is, I hope Dimma stays as he’s coaching as well as ever.


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[guruisatiger]

Should be seeking out if there’s any interest in Vlastuin

He’s not what he used to be


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swap him for dunkley
or swap him for cats first rounder

 

[Daka]

Dimma has coached brilliantly this season. Lots of injuries to key players. Started 2-4. And but for some bad luck (Prestia) and inexplicable mental meltdowns (take your pick) we’d be 12-5 at worst.

Do you blame the coach for Castagna and Aarts brains fades? For Jack kicking 2.6? For the team kicking 11.22? For Dusty missing most of season? For multiple soft tissue injuries to key planks like Balta and Lynch?

We’ve lost 6 games when leading in the last quarter. Next most is Hawks with 4. Most for teams in the top-8 is 2. I’m not saying the coach is not partly responsible for the fade outs, but that number of losses when leading in the last quarter is an absolute anomaly. If we can be leading that many games into the last quarter in 2023 we will be contending.

The point is, I hope Dimma stays as he’s coaching as well as ever.


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Yes i do blame him, because he keeps picking them Aarts did not play good last week yet he still managed to find a spot for him as the Sub.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

Cats for flag ..??? I said the same thing at HT of 2019 PF. Just before HT of 2020 GF I said the same thing. When 44-points up against Demons in last round of 2021 I said the same thing.

You just can’t predict what the Cats will do in September.


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Make sure at some point, you say the same thing again this year

 

[Lacustrus]

Are you ok? Have I offended you? Are you a relative of JUH or something? I didn't have a crack at you, so not sure why you're saying how silly of me?

No the club shouldn't shouldn't and wouldn't take note of anyone on here, strange comment.

For starters MRJ isn't a KPF so not sure why you've gone off on a tangent there. Yes I'm well aware they're mates, they roomed together at Scotch.

Samson Ryan has mongrel in spades so not only a strange comparison, but a dumb one. Colina has played for 2 seconds and is also a ruckman. But most Croats are firey bastards.

Really strange post. It was just an opinion on a public forum. Relax.

don't like it ? a bit too personal? then think before you post that shite

 

[tiger_tough]

don't like it ? a bit too personal? then think before you post that shite

Don't like what?

 

[richoplzbreed]

So here's why i'm nervous about our early picks for the next couple of years. We're going to have pick 8-12 (roughly), 20 (CCJ), 26-30 (roughly).
im not too fussed about our 2nd rounder as we seem to do alright at that mark. Our early pick stuffups can no longer be blamed on Jackson from the old days as Matt Clarke has now beern in charge of 6 drafts starting 2016.

2021: 9) Josh Gibcus happy with this pick can't believe GWS took Mac Andrew so we were lucky.
17) Tom Brown early days so who knows.

2020: Nil

2019: 21) Thomson Dow was shocked when his was called as experts had him rated between 30-50. Hopeful but not exactly dominating in magoos. shows signs so we'll see.

2018: 20) RCD complete and utter failure of a pick, will be playing amateurs in 4 years.

2017: 17) Higgins DUD
20) CCJ DUD

2016: Nil

Not much to launch a new dynasty off. 2 are gone about to be joined by RCD barring we rookie list him, (if were to leave wouldn't get pick 80 for). Time is still on Clarke's side but barring Dow starring week in week out next year (4th year) on the back of retirements potentially another player we over rated.

If ya wanna cry check out our draft history below you'll cry when you realise we gave up pick 4 for Terry Keays or 8 for Craig Biddiscombe. That's prob what shits me the most watching other successful clubs polish turds and sell them to us and other crap teams as gold when we were crap, yet now as a powerhouse we could never spin that a player couldn't get a game because we're winning flags and get a decent trade.

Richmond - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

Trade out our picks for young kids with 10+ years left not ya Dunkley's who are practically FA's. It's time to plunder GC and GWS especially with their salary cap, I couldn't bare another version of RCD is he or isn't he a spud saga. We're already heading that way with Dow soon.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

 

[Mr Magic]

So here's why i'm nervous about our early picks for the next couple of years. We're going to have pick 8-12 (roughly), 20 (CCJ), 26-30 (roughly).
im not too fussed about our 2nd rounder as we seem to do alright at that mark. Our early pick stuffups can no longer be blamed on Jackson from the old days as Matt Clarke has now beern in charge of 6 drafts starting 2016.

2021: 9) Josh Gibcus happy with this pick can't believe GWS took Mac Andrew so we were lucky.
17) Tom Brown early days so who knows.

2020: Nil

2019: 21) Thomson Dow was shocked when his was called as experts had him rated between 30-50. Hopeful but not exactly dominating in magoos. shows signs so we'll see.

2018: 20) RCD complete and utter failure of a pick, will be playing amateurs in 4 years.

2017: 17) Higgins DUD
20) CCJ DUD

2016: Nil

Not much to launch a new dynasty off. 2 are gone about to be joined by RCD barring we rookie list him, (if were to leave wouldn't get pick 80 for). Time is still on Clarke's side but barring Dow starring week in week out next year (4th year) on the back of retirements potentially another player we over rated.

If ya wanna cry check out our draft history below you'll cry when you realise we gave up pick 4 for Terry Keays or 8 for Craig Biddiscombe. That's prob what shits me the most watching other successful clubs polish turds and sell them to us and other crap teams as gold when we were crap, yet now as a powerhouse we could never spin that a player couldn't get a game because we're winning flags and get a decent trade.

Richmond - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

Trade out our picks for young kids with 10+ years left not ya Dunkley's who are practically FA's. It's time to plunder GC and GWS especially with their salary cap, I couldn't bare another version of RCD is he or isn't he a spud saga. We're already heading that way with Dow soon.

a top ten pick is a early pick so what is your point??

RCD can still make it anyway. Just on the 2018 draft. Who did with miss on?? James Jordan, Tom Sparrow, Shultz, or Rowbottom. I have no issue with them going with RCD at 20. It was a thinnish draft for depth. Still think RCD can get there. Curtis Taylor looks as good as any and we are well stocked for small forwards.

Can get particular about Higgins but we might miss out on Balta. Higgins at the time was not that bad a pick for what he done in his draft year. Could have went a few different ways. I have no issue with that one. Lot of these picks are latish when your winning premierships. Even when we picked Ellis before we traded him to Suns, he was a latish pick and for the pick fair enough, no one stood out better of clear note.

The Dow pick was a late pick to in 2019. I thought Sharp would have done more for Gold Coast, or else, Robertson?? Dow might turn out alright yet

 

[JR82]

It’s hilarious looking at the Saints forum when Higgins was playing well earlier this season … they were laughing at what a bargain he was and even comparing him to Toby Greene. Some even said he was better than Milne.

He’s a selfish spud and a terrible kick for goal.


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He & Butler are only good for a goal out the back & nothing else & they continue to get away with it at that Club. It's hilarious their fans can't see it.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So here's why i'm nervous about our early picks for the next couple of years. We're going to have pick 8-12 (roughly), 20 (CCJ), 26-30 (roughly).
im not too fussed about our 2nd rounder as we seem to do alright at that mark. Our early pick stuffups can no longer be blamed on Jackson from the old days as Matt Clarke has now beern in charge of 6 drafts starting 2016.

2021: 9) Josh Gibcus happy with this pick can't believe GWS took Mac Andrew so we were lucky.
17) Tom Brown early days so who knows.

2020: Nil

2019: 21) Thomson Dow was shocked when his was called as experts had him rated between 30-50. Hopeful but not exactly dominating in magoos. shows signs so we'll see.

2018: 20) RCD complete and utter failure of a pick, will be playing amateurs in 4 years.

2017: 17) Higgins DUD
20) CCJ DUD

2016: Nil

Not much to launch a new dynasty off. 2 are gone about to be joined by RCD barring we rookie list him, (if were to leave wouldn't get pick 80 for). Time is still on Clarke's side but barring Dow starring week in week out next year (4th year) on the back of retirements potentially another player we over rated.

If ya wanna cry check out our draft history below you'll cry when you realise we gave up pick 4 for Terry Keays or 8 for Craig Biddiscombe. That's prob what shits me the most watching other successful clubs polish turds and sell them to us and other crap teams as gold when we were crap, yet now as a powerhouse we could never spin that a player couldn't get a game because we're winning flags and get a decent trade.

Richmond - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru

Trade out our picks for young kids with 10+ years left not ya Dunkley's who are practically FA's. It's time to plunder GC and GWS especially with their salary cap, I couldn't bare another version of RCD is he or isn't he a spud saga. We're already heading that way with Dow soon.

These picks you are mentioning of Higgins, CCJ, RCD and Dow are all roughly around pick 20. We got our money back on 2 of them, and the other two are as yet undetermined, though not exactly shooting the lamps out. But pick 20 in 24 drafts between 1990 and 2013 produced 8 x 100+ game players at a strike rate of about one per three attempts. There are only 4 other 50 gamers in there as well. So you are probably 50% to get a 50 gamer, and 33% to get a 100+ gamer with that pick. Only 3 of them ever played 200 games so you are looking at about 13% chance to get a 200 gamer.

So if any one of those 4 play 200+ games it is probably a good effort by our recruiters, and if 1-2 get to 100 games then that is in line with the history of that pick. If 2 get to 50 games it is par. So what exactly do you expect from those 4 picks? And really it is only 2 picks now, the other two have come back to be used on Tom Brown, and whatever we do with North’s second rounder this year.

Pick 20 has only ever produced 3 Premiership players as well, all played in a single flag, Solomon, Cornes, K, and Sam Butler.

Your expectations of basing dynasties off picks around this range are a bit out of kilter with reality I think.

 

[Mr Magic]

These picks you are mentioning of Higgins, CCJ, RCD and Dow are all roughly around pick 20. We got our money back on 2 of them, and the other two are as yet undetermined, though not exactly shooting the lamps out. But pick 20 in 24 drafts between 1990 and 2013 produced 8 x 100+ game players at a strike rate of about one per three attempts. There are only 4 other 50 gamers in there as well. So you are probably 50% to get a 50 gamer, and 33% to get a 100+ gamer with that pick. Only 3 of them ever played 200 games so you are looking at about 13% chance to get a 200 gamer.

So if any one of those 4 play 200+ games it is probably a good effort by our recruiters, and if 1-2 get to 100 games then that is in line with the history of that pick. If 2 get to 50 games it is par. So what exactly do you expect from those 4 picks? And really it is only 2 picks now, the other two have come back to be used on Tom Brown, and whatever we do with North’s second rounder this year.

Pick 20 has only ever produced 3 Premiership players as well, all played in a single flag, Solomon, Cornes, K, and Sam Butler.

Your expectations of basing dynasties off picks around this range are a bit out of kilter with reality I think.

Getting the likes of Balta and Bolton for picks in the twenties is fortunate for us. A club with forward planning could not bank on that.

Thats why teams with ,multiple top ten and top 4 picks eventually get up there even with stuff ups like Melbourne just through weight of numbers. Swans can get around it with their academy getting Mills and Heeney in particular.

Sure gems can be discovered but it is rare to find game changers or match winners there. Hard to get a Bontempelli in 30 plus let alone a Oliver or even a English. I was surprised English lasted to 19 in his draft for the Bulldogs but he still did not make the twenties, I think Rance slipped to nineteen to, actually it was eighteen

 

[richoatthedisco]

Bolton contracted next year then FA , a worry if Rioli goes , I’ve been wrong before guessing shais intent

Shai is out of contract next year but it's only his 7th so not a free agent.
Neither will leave.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Yes i do blame him, because he keeps picking them Aarts did not play good last week yet he still managed to find a spot for him as the Sub.

So Dimma is now sole selector too? Needs a pay rise

 

[panatha1908]

It's a complex picture this year but i think we have fallen away when we have had injuries as there is a big difference between best 22 and those next in. This is because many depth players took offers to play regularly elsewhere (chol, ccj marking etc) but we were compensated with draft picks so we have lots of younger players (e.g 5 from 2021 draft) and these are less developed naturally but also played less with the covid years.
The good thing is you would think the 2021, 2020 and maybe 2019 draftees still have lots of development jumps via another pre-season. We really need development coaches, leadership programs etc.
That means this is the year we have to clear players who may be more physically ready than the draftees but have a limited ceiling, the list cloggers that won't get us anywhere.
So maybe we have to work backward from whatever we have to see how many we bring in.
4 good draft picks we should use (1st round, 2 second round and a 3rd round)
Rookies that stay rookies (biggie, colina) are upgraded (pickett, stack, miller) or let go (Parker, aarts)
And retiring look like Lambert, edwards and maybe Jack and cotchin. Cotchin looks like he can go another year to me.
With 2 retirements and three rookie upgrades we have to delish five player to have our 4 draft picks. Which younger players can we say wont make it? Maybe Martyn? The others like RCD I think still deserve a preseason and good run at it.
So I don't think we really have room for a free agent or trade in, unless we package a couple of draft spots or a departing player and draft spot for a better draft spot.
The talent we have under 23 is top notch, Stack and Sonsie were rated top 5, and add some good drafting like Bolton and we have good elite young players. I'm bullish on our 2021 draftees but they need a preseason.
So we reload new rookies by bringing in the best undrafted players onto our list to work through the VFL team, and we let the draftees of 2019, 20 and 21 naturally improve over another preseason.
That just leaves contracted players leaving like a Broady or McIntosh who may get offers to go home or Dusty. That could be a trade for a 1st or 2nd round draft pick depending on the player and another young fella comes in.
I think we have done more rebuilding than teams who have dropped down the ladder massively like north so we are in a good spot. Just got some work to do with cutting retirees and list cloggers and making opportunity for the kids who will make it to play. Next preseason we are likely to see a younger team that we will enjoy watching grow.