Opinion Sack Hinkley 7 - "Turn it around or watch out"

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Us against the rest said:
As far as some of our players coming out before the Showdown and talking tough, even bagging the Crow's organization, to me was a message to Rankin to not go to the Crows because their club stinks. ...
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Rankine is a life long Camry Crows supporter. He's one of those people that would have been defending Ted and telling Eddie Betts to get over The Camp™ and move on.
 
Malibu#27 said:
So Hinkley getting games into skilled young talls shows he doesnt get games into young talls... because he doesn't get games into less skilled young talls ? Doesnt that just say he doesnt gift games to peiople thathavent shown something.
If I recall, he was getting games into Marshall when he was still in his infancy at the expense of Jackson Trengove in a final... (I'd also note that the 'freak skilled' yong MArshall (A guy I've always liked has been a bit of a whipping boy by many on these fgorums, so in some ways, Hinkley has been getting games into a whipping boy which is proving dividends this year.
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it shouldn’t take freak athleticism / freak skills for a tall to get games under your coach

Mitch and Marshall are actual proof hinkleys standards are ridiculous.

Marshall didn’t even get backed in early, we were slow to play him.

Malibu#27 said:
Thats an interesting assertion ... in the 4 years that Butcher was on the list under Hinkley, he kicked 19 goals in 19 games. I cant check injuries etc, but:
in 2013 he kicked 0,1,2,1,3,1,1, and 0 goals, and was left out after two 1 and one 2 goal effort.
in 2014 he kicked 1, 1, 0 goals and was left out after the 0 goal effort.
in 2015 he kicked 1, 1, 0, 0,1 goals and was left out after a 1 goal effort.
in 2016 he kicked 0, 4, and 1 goals and was left out after a 1 goal effort.
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Now do the same analysis for Sam gray and Jake Neade.

These guys went for long patches of poor games.

I’m gobsmacked anyone can deny there was two different criteria placed on smalls and talls in that period.

You might as well say the sky isn’t blue.

Malibu#27 said:
Drafted in 2014 as a pick 56. Spends 2015 in SANFL, 6 games in 2016, then does ACL in June of that year, misses 12 month basically.. Comes back mid 2017 in the SANFL and makes it back into AFL seide by the end of the year, before becoming basically a fixture in the side. Im not sure that fits your description.

It certainly wasnt Hinkleys call to trade him as the person that made the call has mentioned it previously. It wasn't one I am super happy with, but for whatever reason the club saw him as providing something forward, he wanted to play back, him playing back is the right move by the looks, but hes doing nothin to suggest he should be our second highest paid player.
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Doogs kicked 8’goals in the sanfl and from memory still didn’t crack the afl side at a time we were desperately needed young talls.

List management team doesn’t pick the team.

Hinkley decided to drop Howard from our backline and made him expendable.

Malibu#27 said:
We were playing Jackson Trengove (who you complained about above) as one of them, Alipate Carlilse in 2015/15, and a combination of Hombsch, Carlile, Howard in 2016 by the looks.
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Trengove was drafted and established in the side well before Hinkley came along lol.

Then Hinkley kicked him out of the backline for smaller more mobile key defenders, and used him as an undersized ruck.
Malibu#27 said:
Perhaps Draper is a ruckman more suited to the pace of AFL than Hayes ?
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Lol

Draper barely cracked past 5d in a bunch of his first 7 games and essendon backed him in.

There’s absolutely zero evidence that Hayes (who is hitting the same marks that literally every other ruck hit while at the same stage) is the problem and there’s plenty of evidence that Hinkley does not rate rucks and happily concedes the ruck to get an extra runner.
 
Todd Marshall is pretty clearly the exception to the rule.

Its because young talls drift in and out of games, whereas young smalls have the ball and action in their face all the time so can always find a way to do the required "pressure acts". Its a fundamental misunderstanding of player development.
 

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Also, you can go through any player that Hinkley has played and you'll see that he normally likes to give them <10 games in the year they debut (unless they are genuine best 22 players), then the next season the benchmark for getting games gets lifted to AFL standard (instead of AFL rookie standard):

Kane Farrell - 5 games in debut year, 7 games in second year
Karl Amon - 7 games in debut year, 15 games in second year
Willem Drew - 10 games in debut year, 24 games in second year
Lachlan Jones - 6 games in debut year, 13 games in second year (plus one as unused sub)
Jackson Mead - 10 games in debut year (plus one as unused sub)
Riley Bonner - 1 game in debut year, 3 games in second year, 19 in third year
Jase Burgoyne - 7 games in debut year (plus one as unused sub)
Mitch Georgiades - 7 games in debut year, 21 in second year
Todd Marshall - 3 games in debut year, 7 in second year

The only players that Hinkley has ever given more than 10 games to in their AFL debut year are Wines, Impey, Byrne-Jones, Houston, Powell-Pepper, Rozee, Butters, Duursma and Bergman.

It's just the way he operates.
 
Janus said:
The fact that you list 2014 when we made a prelim final as an era we were dogshit shows how much we should rate your analysis.
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Absolutely no one with any dignity counts that era as successful cause we had one dead cat bounce that achieved nothing.

I said we were largely shit across that era, and it’s true.

Just looked it up , 5th 9th and 10th in that era.

Lol. Who the **** thinks that’s good?
 
Janus said:
Clurey has played over 50% of the games he's been eligible for. The fact that you list 2014 when we made a prelim final as an era we were dogshit shows how much we should rate your analysis.
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If Clurey had played in the back half of 2014 when both Carlisle and Trengove were injured, then we may have finished top 4, instead of limping to 5th.

Rnd 15 - Tall backs Carlile, Trengove, Hombsch, Jonas

Trengove injured at half time, replaced by Kane Danger Mitchell. We go from a 10 point lead at half time in a showdown to a 23 point loss. Carlisle injured in the last quarter.

Rnd 16 - Tall backs Hombsch, Jonas, O'Shea

Lose to the bombers by 2 points, Daniher, Carlisle, Ambrose & Ryder combine for 4.4 - half of Essendon's score.

Rnd 16 - Tall backs Hombsch, Jonas, O'Shea

Lose to the tigers by 20 points. Riewoldt, Vickery & Chaplin combine for 7! Goals.

Rnd 17 - Tall backs Hombsch, Jonas, O'Shea

Scrape to a 3 point win over 17th placed Melbourne with Watts, Frawley, Pederson & Tapscott combining for 4 goals.

The man has a history of, short sightedly, playing flankers in key posts to chase wins now at the expense of development. And, painfully ironically, costing us wins in the process.

tribey preemptive apology for the triggering misspellings of alleypattee and jaxxson's surnames. Just be glad that Mr Hinks never trialled Sgt Shultz at full back.
 
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philthy05 said:
Absolutely no one with any dignity counts that era as successful cause we had one dead cat bounce that achieved nothing.

I said we were largely s**t across that era, and it’s true.

Just looked it up , 5th 9th and 10th in that era.

Lol. Who the * thinks that’s good?
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There is a medium between 'dogshit' and successful, you know.
 
ibd77 said:
Other fans don't rate our squad and says Hinkley gets more than most out of them.
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It’s an incredible niche he’s carved out for himself.

Dodgy selections, shocking matchday coach, no plan-B if the oppo punches us in the mouth early, the team almost always goes to water when it matters, and old mate is held up as the tortured genius left high and dry after milking every last drop of blood out of the stone.

🤪
 
• 2014-R10, Port d. Haw @ AO by 14 ✅
• 2014-RPF, Haw d. Port @ MCG by 3 ❌ [MUST WIN]
• 2015-R04, Port d. Haw @ AO by 8 ✅

• 2019-R06, Port d. NM @ AO by 16th ✅
• 2019-R22, NM d. Port @ Marvel by 86pts ❌ [MUST WIN]
• 2020-R16, Port d. NM @ Carrara by 36pts ✅

• 2020-R11, Port d. Rich @ AO by 21 ✅
• 2020-RPF, Rich d. Port @ AO by 6 ❌ [MUST WIN]
• 2021-R04, Port d. Rich @ AO by 2 ✅

• 2021-R23, Port d. WBD @ Marvel by 2pts ✅
• 2021-RPF, WBD d. Port @ AO by 71pts ❌ [MUST WIN]
• 2022-R08, Port d. WBD @ AO by 17pts ✅

iT’s ThE pLaYeRs! hE DoEs’Nt HaVe ThE CaTtLe! wE’Re NoT iN ThE SaNfL aNyMoRe!
 

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ibd77 said:
Other fans don't rate our squad and says Hinkley gets more than most out of them.
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Until you suggest he coaches their team.
 
Us against the rest said:
They would be right, I don't rate a few in our squad either. I don't want to single out players but you have to ask the question, how many of our squad would make a Cats or Melbourne side.
Donuts is only as good as our squad, mid table.
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Thats difficult to answer after the 2022 season though. Our list isn't too different to what it was in 2020 and 2021 aside from Ebert, Westhoff and Rockliff retiring? And back then you'd have had a fair few players that'd be playing in the Cats and Dees side across those 2 years.

You have to realise that 2020 and 2021 were the years to win a flag. We peaked in those 2 years. While I didnt think we'd miss finals in 2022, I also didnt think we'd be winning the flag. The next year or two is about drafting and organic growth. The young core we have is supremely talented in Rozee, Butters, Bergman, Duursma, Georgiades, Marshall, Burton, Houston, SPP and Burgoyne. I am also of the opinion that we havent yet seen the very best of Lachie Jones (done some nice things till) and Sinn hasn't properly arrived on the scene yet.

My point is that 2020 and 2021 were the years but we have a young core that can help us bounce back in the next 2 years under the right coach while we also pick up 2 more top 10 picks in 2022 and 2023. Its not like the names I've mentioned are not showing improvement year on year. So there's a lot of organic growth to come.

The last thing I want is to lose 2 top 10 picks by trying to get Grundy and Dunkley and others above 25 and try to give Ken another extension. He's had his chances and no coach has had more! He was there twice when the team's peak came around but he wasnt able to take them all the way. The reason why I am convinced he's not the coach for us is because of his gameplan (I dont even need to see his stats). His gameplan is contest based and simply doesnt hold up under pressure in finals when we are attacking (Lions have a very similar plan and look at where they're at too!)
 
Us against the rest said:
They would be right, I don't rate a few in our squad either. I don't want to single out players but you have to ask the question, how many of our squad would make a Cats or Melbourne side.
Donuts is only as good as our squad, mid table.
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The chicken-egg factor of this is enormous.

ie, There’s a world out there somewhere where Robbie Gray is a Norm Smith Medallist, Travis Boak had 30 & 2, and Jay Schulz kicked a bag of 5 on the biggest day of all.

I remember people scoffing at Brad Johnson getting into the Hall of Fame.

Brad Johnson!

With his 6 AA’s, 3 B&F’s and 350+ games/550+ goals.

But he didn’t grace a Grand Final, let alone win a flag, so he’s subconsciously downgraded against his obvious peers by default.
 
Addy23 said:
Thats difficult to answer after the 2022 season though. Our list isn't too different to what it was in 2020 and 2021 aside from Ebert, Westhoff and Rockliff retiring? And back then you'd have had a fair few players that'd be playing in the Cats and Dees side across those 2 years.

You have to realise that 2020 and 2021 were the years to win a flag. We peaked in those 2 years. While I didnt think we'd miss finals in 2022, I also didnt think we'd be winning the flag. The next year or two is about drafting and organic growth. The young core we have is supremely talented in Rozee, Butters, Bergman, Duursma, Georgiades, Marshall, Burton, Houston, SPP and Burgoyne. I am also of the opinion that we havent yet seen the very best of Lachie Jones (done some nice things till) and Sinn hasn't properly arrived on the scene yet.

My point is that 2020 and 2021 were the years but we have a young core that can help us bounce back in the next 2 years under the right coach while we also pick up 2 more top 10 picks in 2022 and 2023. Its not like the names I've mentioned are not showing improvement year on year. So there's a lot of organic growth to come.

The last thing I want is to lose 2 top 10 picks by trying to get Grundy and Dunkley and others above 25 and try to give Ken another extension. He's had his chances and no coach has had more! He was there twice when the team's peak came around but he wasnt able to take them all the way. The reason why I am convinced he's not the coach for us is because of his gameplan (I dont even need to see his stats). His gameplan is contest based and simply doesnt hold up under pressure in finals when we are attacking (Lions have a very similar plan and look at where they're at too!)
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I agree, Hinkley is not the man for port adelaide. Many reasons, game plan, selections, player positions, not playing a recognized ruckman.
Since he has come under some sort of spot light there are other glaring deficiencies that have come to light but these are more to do with Ken the person, he puts himself before the club, financially and what is best for the club moving forward. He has also displayed self preservation in many ways, blaming players for failures, the pressure of coaching in Adelaide, the pressure of not having a contract extension that he has not earned.

On the player side, we are short a key defender, a speedy smooth mid, the lack of games into Sam Hayes as a genuine tap ruckman and a general upgrade on a few players that we think are in our best 22.
 
Us against the rest said:
I agree, Hinkley is not the man for port adelaide. Many reasons, game plan, selections, player positions, not playing a recognized ruckman.
Since he has come under some sort of spot light there are other glaring deficiencies that have come to light but these are more to do with Ken the person, he puts himself before the club, financially and what is best for the club moving forward. He has also displayed self preservation in many ways, blaming players for failures, the pressure of coaching in Adelaide, the pressure of not having a contract extension that he has not earned.

On the player side, we are short a key defender, a speedy smooth mid, the lack of games into Sam Hayes as a genuine tap ruckman and a general upgrade on a few players that we think are in our best 22.
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On the player side, I agree about KPD but I like what Sam Hayes does as a ruck. I'm not sure I agree with Ken about the lack of impact Sam has. I'm not too worried about the midfield too, more concerned about small forward
 
tribey said:
The chicken-egg factor of this is enormous.

ie, There’s a world out there somewhere where Robbie Gray is a Norm Smith Medallist, Travis Boak had 30 & 2, and Jay Schulz kicked a bag of 5 on the biggest day of all.

I remember people scoffing at Brad Johnson getting into the Hall of Fame.

Brad Johnson!

With his 6 AA’s, 3 B&F’s and 350+ games/550+ goals.

But he didn’t grace a Grand Final, let alone win a flag, so he’s subconsciously downgraded against his obvious peers by default.
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I think we both know that we have had lists capable of making a GF.

When I say Hinkley is only as good as our list, I mean that is his limit as a coach to where he can take this list, i am confident to say that a better coach and we would be playing finals.
I would go as far to say the selection of Sam Hayes and the non selection of a few others we would probably be playing finals.
 
Addy23 said:
On the player side, I agree about KPD but I like what Sam Hayes does as a ruck. I'm not sure I agree with Ken about the lack of impact Sam has. I'm not too worried about the midfield too, more concerned about small forward
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That's my point, why Hayes wasn't being used while Lycett was injured is just dumb, he could have rucked with Dixon or Finlayson.
If Fantasia can get on the Park that issue will be solved but I doubt we get 22 games out of him. We are short down back, it shows when we play sides with tall forwards, which forces Aliir to take on one opponent instead of being the intercept mark that he is known for.
 
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Us against the rest said:
why Hayes wasn't being used while Lycett was injured is just dumb, he could have rucked with Dixon or Finlayson.
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Reminiscent of that weird period when if Carlile/Trengove/Schulz/Westhoff missed a game or he couldn’t wait to drop Butcher, he’d refuse to replace like for like.

Where’s the system? The base structure?

You can’t constantly select a hodgepodge improv lineup and then bemoan a lack of bodies. Although he’s still here in Year 11, so I guess he can.
 
Us against the rest said:
If he's not sacked prepare yourself for another extension because he won't coach with that uncertainty.
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If he at any stage blames uncertainty over 2024 for a failure to coach adequately in 2023, he ought to be sacked immediately for breaking the terms of his contract, risking much of his remaining payout at that point in time. Then again, how would we tell the bloody difference? Now I'm not just being completely facetious... our club would be in an awkward position from my plain English language point of view - no lawyer - to suddenly launch a case against him based on a definition of "adequate" that we've clearly not been using ourselves at previous contract renewal times.

How effing ridiculous and untenable is this situation? As I've said before the only positive out of Koch tying his anchor to Ken for 2023 is looking forward to watching said ship of fools sail off into the distance.
 
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