AFL Autopsy RND 6: Loss to the Pies

[ghostdog]

Problem going forward will be how do we cover Laverde if he's out?
Baldwin probably gets first dig.
Reid, Montgomerie and Hayes surely aren't ready.
Maybe Langford finally gets a consistent run in a backline role?

 

[Lore]

We need more Langfords. We need more players with his marking, his foot skills, his versatility, his size and maturity.

Perkins, Martin, Setterfield and Heppell, maybe Tsatas or Laverde fall into the frame, but most need more development and even then we need more of them altogether.

I keep saying it, but it’s true and it’s only going to get worse if we let Heppell retire without adding another. One injury and the cupboard is completely bare.

It’s not so much a cavity as a canyon where our list is concerned.

 

[CBombers17]

I hope that you are right. So many false dawns.
I'm still very sceptical.
It feels like we are close ish today... but I reckon in a month's time it will again be miles off because we will have copped Geelong, Port, Brisbane and we'll have long forgotten any lessons from today.
That is what I have learned following this club.
Sometimes it would be nice to be a goldfish

I agree and I don't think we are in the clear just yet but everyone apparently being on the same page as the coach is a good start.

As others have mentioned I think there is a question around leadership and until we have a rusted on group of 5 or 6 leaders accross the ground we will be a bottom half of the top 8 prospect at best. As for the remainder of this year I could see this group winning a final which would be a step in the right direction of course.

 

[Lore]

Couple of eye opening stats:
Phillips 11m gained
Durham 171m gained

I think Duz will be filthy about his game today.

The better one is Phillips vs Draper, 50 hit outs between them to 28 on the other side of the aisle. And the MG is lopsided there too, but I don’t consider it meaningful for a ruckman given taps aren’t possessions.

 

[ghostdog]

The better one is Phillips vs Draper, 50 hit outs between them to 28 on the other side of the aisle. And the MG is lopsided there too, but I don’t consider it meaningful for a ruckman given taps aren’t possessions.

Oh, are MGs only from possessions?

 

[Lore]

Oh, are MGs only from possessions?

Disposals yes, but hit outs aren’t disposals either

It’s just ground gained towards your goal from your possessions so punching it, tapping it, kicking sideways or backwards messes it up a bit. It can even come up in the negatives sometimes if you kick back more than forward.

 

[ant555]

Couple of eye opening stats:
Phillips 11m gained
Durham 171m gained

I think Duz will be filthy about his game today.

Not one he will be looking forward to reviewing. Had a mare after a promising start.

 

[sacka]

I think the best quote from B.Scott"s post match presser was "their leaders and quality players stood up in the last quarter when needed"
The underline of leaders and quality players, its something thats been criticised over the last few years and the last quarter really highlights the lack of development in this area still.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

The end is gutting, but that game, overall, is very positive.

A team that couldn't defend to save itself over the last four years, managed to for long periods, slow up the ball movement of an opponent known for slicing teams apart on transition.

 

[jdstorm]

Problem going forward will be how do we cover Laverde if he's out?
Baldwin probably gets first dig.
Reid, Montgomerie and Hayes surely aren't ready.
Maybe Langford finally gets a consistent run in a backline role?

Langfords the best most consistent forward. He can’t be moved if they want to score goals.

Just have to go smaller and bring in Hind/Mass and have Ridley play Key Position

 

[citizen-erased]

My initial take.

I stand firm on the fact that Collingwood have actually ticked endurance as a box when recruiting. It is not all about just picking the best endurance runners alone but looking back at some of their selections they do look like they have used endurance to separate player they have been looking at in individual positions. The game was similar in the VFL on Sunday. We had control until late in the third quarter but they ran over us in the end.
They simply had more players able to run out the game better than us. As Scott said in his presser . They found a petrol station somewhere.

Parish and Shiel where just average. Durham got worked over and Menzie showed his lack of experience on a big day.

Davey did some good things but got exposed when the game was really physical as you would expect at this stage.

Having to move Setterfield into defense in the last quarter did not help us at all. We lost what little help we had as far as physicality goes.

We are still a poor marking side overall. When the pressure is on and we need a mark down the line to slow the game down we come up empty 80% of the time.

Forwards did not work smart enough at times to find space away from Moore. They simply lead straight up or stood around waving. Needed to be more creative.

Caldwell into the midfield ended up leaving too much of the defensive forward work for Snelling to cover leaving him less effective.

Felt for Stringer a bit. May not have been obvious on TV but he was working pretty hard for a long while for little reward.

Thought the effort was good. The defense held up until we ran out of gas. I like the way we have worked a basic defense that as we go along and personal change we can actually build on it without making it too complicated.

Well done to the Pies for selecting two blokes who like a physical contest to ruck. The just kept running into our blokes all day and not making it easy for them.

My view is anyone who thinks Nick Daicos is just a sheep dog has no idea. The kid just knows where to run and also how to win the footy in close and set up play. Sure his stats get padded out a bit with kick in duties but he is a seriously good player who will only get better when he fills out a little and can handle the contested stuff a bit better.


And * it stings to keep losing to them by under 3 goals.

On Nick, his fitness base is off the charts. From start to finish this kid does not stop running and he doesnt look tired after games. May well be the fittest AFL player i've ever seen. Stat padder or not (im in the "he's class" camp), he damages you through sheer work rate & distance covered by foot.

Shiel and Parish my biggest disappointments for the day. Merrett out, Setters had to go back. They really were sheepish all day under collingwood pressue.

i didnt think Davey was up for this game.
Hobbs in, Caldwell stays doing what he's been doing

 

[frodos gardener]

The better one is Phillips vs Draper, 50 hit outs between them to 28 on the other side of the aisle. And the MG is lopsided there too, but I don’t consider it meaningful for a ruckman given taps aren’t possessions.

Can you clarify? Are you saying that their HO stats aren’t flattering because it’s two vs one? If so, wouldn’t you half Frampton’s HOs when comparing head to head against each player? E.g:
Draper 25 to Frampton 14
Phillips 25 to Frampton 14

 

[Cold Sober]

Get over it, beaten by a better team, move on.
Phillips was better than Draper but who cares.
Mc Grath brilliant, who cares.
Stringer got us back into it, who cares.
Next week we start again.

 

[Lore]

Can you clarify? Are you saying that their HO stats aren’t flattering because it’s two vs one? If so, wouldn’t you half Frampton’s HOs when comparing head to head against each player? E.g:
Draper 25 to Frampton 14
Phillips 25 to Frampton 14

Frampton has 27 and some other bloke had 1, ergo the team stat is 50 v 28

Wasn’t really analysing the ruck work, just pointing out a random stat. I don’t think 50 hit outs in a game is all that common but Collingwood do like a stoppage apparently

 

[Squeaky]

Arguarbly the most disappointing aspect of the game today was Draper and Phillips today. After the rip roar against Grundy today, they hardly did anything against a bloke who was essentially a part time ruck men.

Yep. Ruck strength. Supposed ruck strength.
No advantage at all...

 

[bacon buster]

Yep. Ruck strength. Supposed ruck strength.
No advantage at all...

That was incredibly disappointing. There were times when a full on thump forward were available, which would have been preferable to tapping straight to their midfielders

Need to polish yo the ruck work. Merrett back next week will make us more competitive in there too

Phillips and Draper can’t be a lock every week. We will need Draper to do more work at times so we are more mobile.

 

[yodellinhank]

We need more Langfords. We need more players with his marking, his foot skills, his versatility, his size and maturity.

HF: Langford Langford Langford
FF: Langford Langford Langford

Play Longfark off HB and Malkovich on a wing.

I keep saying it, but it’s true and it’s only going to get worse if we let Heppell retire without adding another.

Aaron is probably playing his best footy ATM

 

[Lore]

Here’s all the other relevant stats for analysing rucks:

Hit outs
Advantage
Win percent
Advantage percent
Ruck contests
Centre clearances
Stoppage clearances
Total clearances
Score involvements
Goals
Behinds
Shots at goal (includes OOF)
Marks
Marks inside 50
Contested marks

 

[andleanback]

We need more Langfords. We need more players with his marking, his foot skills, his versatility, his size and maturity.

Perkins, Martin, Setterfield and Heppell, maybe Tsatas or Laverde fall into the frame, but most need more development and even then we need more of them altogether.

I keep saying it, but it’s true and it’s only going to get worse if we let Heppell retire without adding another. One injury and the cupboard is completely bare.

It’s not so much a cavity as a canyon where our list is concerned.

We do have some money to spend…

 

[andleanback]

Yep. Ruck strength. Supposed ruck strength.
No advantage at all...

The taps we did win clearly in the middle are mids were not in the right spot to receive.

 

[bacon buster]

The taps we did win clearly in the middle are mids were not in the right spot to receive.

So was it poor ruck craft? Poor mid craft? Good planning by the pies?

I found it hard to decipher.

 

[Squeaky]

Disappointing result, but awesome to see us compete against the best. I feel pretty good about things

I used to feel good about losses like this one.

 

[andleanback]

So was it poor ruck craft? Poor mid craft? Good planning by the pies?

I found it hard to decipher.

thought it was just all round poor stoppage work. Some taps were put on a platter and no one was there, they weren’t miss hits as a lot were uncontested.

 

[bacon buster]

Yep. Definitely something to work on this week. I was sure that would be an area we could beat them in. 3rd quarter, yes. Last quarter, couldn’t buy a centre clearance to save us (literally)

 

[Squeaky]

Honestly sucked being there being ran over the top.

Collingwood is a good side and that Essendon were in front by 5 goals at 3 quarter time shouldn’t be looked over.

Thought they were more worn down by the physicality then anything else but that’s part of learning to win

had a lot of negative thoughts about the game as I’m sure many others here do but think the real takeaways were

Langford is a gun forward who should stay there.
Hope AMT comes back cause we need him
there’s definitely room for Cox and Tsatas at HB/Wing whenever they are healthy.

Daicos + Pendlebury is having 2 Aces. They are just such smart footballers

I can guarantee that in a month it will be looked over that we led by 28 at 3qt. It will merely say L.