Western Bulldogs and their partnership with Ballarat a success

[dogwatch]

This is the latest that I gleaned from the Development Victoria and Ballarat Council reps at Eureka Stadium on Wednesday. The first thing that I noticed is that they are not mucking about, demolition of the old showgrounds is well underway. They want the Athletics facility completely finished by April 2026.

I asked all of the questions that I thought that you folks would ask:

Q. Looking at the old Showgrounds, there are some heritage WW2 pavilions and huts that originated at the old Ballarat RAAF Base, is there any plan to preserve or relocate those?
A. We considered them and the general consensus was that they had no historical value. ... Yes, I nearly fell off my broomstick!

Q. You have a small carpark planned adjacent to Howitt Street, is there any other plan to expand carparking in the vicinity of the stadium beyond that?
A. That is not within our scope in this stage of the development.

Q. The stadium's lighting I consider to be its Achilles Heal. I was here during that horror July 18 game where the lighting and supplementary lights were totally inadequate. Is an upgrade to be included as part of this development?
A. That is not within our scope in this stage of the development. The Council are examining their options for this.

In July 2018 after the horror game against Port Adelaide when Ballarat's weather unleashed its best Winter blast, the media lambasted Ballarat and the Mayor Samantha McIntosh said at that time that "Lighting improvements will be part of any Council conditions for future stadium upgrades", so what happened? Wouldn't it be easier to relocate the existing light towers to the new athletics centre and install new higher output LED fitted light towers similar to those at Ikon Park and the VUWO for a piddling sum of $4 million? Crickets!!!!

You do realise that as long as the existing lighting situation remains that Ballarat will never get prime time TV free-to-air TV exposure, or have a shot at hosting BBL cricket in Summer like Launceston, Canberra and even Albury currently do? It does seem to be almost anti "Development Victoria" doesn't it? An awkward laugh was the response.

Q. You are effectively removing a 4000-capacity standing hill and replacing with two stands of 5000 seating, does this mean that capacity will increase?
A. The Council think that 11,000 is a good number in consideration of prevailing parking and transport access limitations. My response - That probably makes sense given that the State Government have indicated that they are not interested in a train platform or railway station in the vicinity this side of 2030. I noticed on the drive in tonight that the old MB Johns site is now being carved up and will soon be covered with small commercial and industrial businesses. That was an opportunity lost.

Q. Okay, so what about the South-Western boundary between the existing video scoreboard and the South-Western standing hill. Is there a plan to increase standing elevated capacity in that part of the ground?
A. That part of the ground will be modified, including moving the scoreboard more toward the goals and there will be elevated pathways constructed so there will be some increased elevated standing area in that zone. Our aim is to enhance total accessibility around the stadium. That there will be no stairs or ramps, just gradiented pathways. We will even modify the whole Gate 2 entrance to remove steps.

Q. Why did the designers create two stands and propose to place them where they have? Wouldn't it have been better to extend the existing main stand southward to block the southerly winds that have significant impact on the on field play?
A. The Ballarat Council insisted that they didn't want a big stand or a Kardinia Park clone, that they wanted the stadium to retain a regional vibe. So the two stands were made smaller and strategically positioned to frame the historic Selkirk Chimney from the main TV camera angle. ... You mean the pay-per-view Kayo TV camera angle? ... A polite awkward laugh was the response.

Q. You are no doubt aware that the original architects (Peddle Thorp) future proofed the begezzus out of this stadium as part of the first stage design and build?
A. What do you mean? ... For instance, the existing stands were designed for expansion with minimal cost and effort. Look across at the Eastern Stand. The roof is designed to be removed easily and rows added rearward to extend that stand's capacity by a further 2000. I can see how easy it would be to remove the existing roof and more or less replicate a new 3000 capacity stand to virtually mirror the two new stands that are about to be built. Eventually you would have three stands identical around the eastern boundary of the stadium?

At this point, they realised that they weren't talking to a novice or interested bystander, their answers were more on point

A. (The Ballarat Council representative looking at me surprised) You are exactly right! We did examine that as one of our first options for this stage but presently the boundary for the stadium's fence line along Creswick Road would limit rearward extension, but we are now working through the legalities to extend the fence boundary out by several metres to allow for the next stage of seating expansion to occur on the Eastern Stand when that occurs.

They did ask me at this point what my interest was in this, and I explained that I was an interested former North Ballarat Sports Club worker and North Melbourne Tragic. The guy who I spoke to said "Quote ... North Melbourne could be playing two games a year on this ground along with the Bulldogs in the future". I responded ... "Not likely, the Western Bulldogs fought tooth and nail to get North Melbourne the Hell out of Ballarat in 2014 striking a deal with Dan Andrews. Yes, North had a fantastic relationship here with the Roosters and it supported both clubs wonderfully. North even built up a big support base here locally by 2014, but the Bulldogs have invested a lot of time and resources to establish their roots here in the community and to build a strong support base among the kids in the schools since 2015. They definitely would NOT welcome or want any other club sharing territory here ... Seriously, that isn't going to happen. I would consider Bendigo and the development of the Queen Elizabeth Oval as a serious alternative consideration for North Melbourne, but they need to get on the front foot now with that and not lob back into Victoria four years from now scratching their heads. If they want funding for that, they have to start now.

Q. You have allocated a generous recreational space on the Western side of the old Showgrounds, why not expand carparking there?
A. The Council indicated that they wanted that space reserved for future recreational use. They indicated that it should be able to accommodate a soccer pitch.

Q. These are going to be reasonably large stands by regional standards, how much bigger will they each be compared with the existing Western Stand as a reference point?
A. The new stands will occupy a bigger footprint because the existing Western Stand currently seats 3200. The new stands will be noticeably higher because they will have more rows of seating, but he seating pitch will be identical to the Western Stand. The roofline will be about 25 metres at their highest point relative to the oval, whereas the Western Stand is 17 metres.

Q. The concept diagrams indicate rooms beneath the new stands, what will those be used for?
A. These areas will accommodate toilets, dedicated mother's rooms for baby changing and feeding. Additional change rooms and official areas for first aid, plus we will have under cover dedicated zones for food vans and so on. ... That's fair enough, it would be a waste of resource to build dedicated kitchens and bars particularly when a lot of the charm of coming to a game here involves the range of food choices that come from the local food vans and the simple fact that the prices are cheaper and you can have a full-strength bevvy from a can. On a personal note, I am glad that you've kept the old scoreboard. Back in the day I served cans from the old "Can Bar"

Q. On a different subject ... The athletics facility. A blue athletics track?
A. We have decided that the track will be a unique blue to match the blue of the original Eureka Flag. We have worked closely with the Ballarat Athletics Association to deliver what we believe will be the very best facility outside a capital city in Australia.

There was more general discussion after that over tea and scones, but it was of a more general nature. I hope that I have shed some light on this for you all. There are some plusses, but I also personally think ... Not enough, my emotions on this are mixed but overall still positive.

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Great work Roogal.

I really appreciate your taking the time to do the research and post what you know here.

 

[DognBones]

Thorough and most informative reporting Roogal. I must say, however, your incisive questioning and analysis left me feeling somewhat disappointed that Eureka/Mars will not reach it's potential as a great regional stadium. Perhaps the realities of funding and planning priorities give us something that is almost but not quite. At least Ballarat will have a facility that is far better than any previous or existing one.
Thanks again for your continuing work.

 

[Roogal]

Thorough and most informative reporting Roogal. I must say, however, your incisive questioning and analysis left me feeling somewhat disappointed that Eureka/Mars will not reach it's potential as a great regional stadium. Perhaps the realities of funding and planning priorities give us something that is almost but not quite. At least Ballarat will have a facility that is far better than any previous or existing one.
Thanks again for your continuing work.

I got the impression that it will be a work in progress for quite some time. They have plenty of space on the Southern standing areas and existing Eastern Stand to raise capacity in time to 16,000+, but that will not occur until such time as Creswick Road is eventually widened and a train platform is eventually built. These will indeed happen in the fullness of time. From the Council rep who was present, I got the impression that they do want to prioritise a lighting upgrade. With a looming Federal Election in May next year they may seek a grant from the Commonwealth along with a list of other higher priorities for the city. They may most likely pitch at the State Liberal opposition members locally who are pressing hard for the events train platform during the 2026 state election campaign. At the end of the day, Ballarat is getting a great deal here. There are also significant upgrades being made at the Basketball Centre including a major multi-media and lighting upgrade and installation of a media broadcast suite to lift the centre from regional to a national standard. Also they are getting a brand new oval with lighting and pavilion at Miners Rest. I was also told that the Number 2 oval is getting a brand new pavilion to properly accommodate North Ballarat Cricket and Football and visiting teams when Mars Stadium is in use or being prepped for other uses. The new pavilion to be funded by North Ballarat Sports Club.

So it's all about priorities.

 

[Freshwater]

This is the latest that I gleaned from the Development Victoria and Ballarat Council reps at Eureka Stadium on Wednesday. The first thing that I noticed is that they are not mucking about, demolition of the old showgrounds is well underway. They want the Athletics facility completely finished by April 2026.

I asked all of the questions that I thought that you folks would ask:

Q. Looking at the old Showgrounds, there are some heritage WW2 pavilions and huts that originated at the old Ballarat RAAF Base, is there any plan to preserve or relocate those?
A. We considered them and the general consensus was that they had no historical value. ... Yes, I nearly fell off my broomstick with discust!

Q. You have a small carpark planned adjacent to Howitt Street, is there any other plan to expand carparking in the vicinity of the stadium beyond that?
A. That is not within our scope in this stage of the development.

Q. The stadium's lighting I consider to be its Achilles Heal. I was here during that horror July 18 game where the lighting and supplementary lights were virtually ineffective. Is an upgrade to be included as part of this development?
A. That is not within our scope in this stage of the development. The Council are examining their options for this.

In July 2018 after the horror game against Port Adelaide when Ballarat's weather unleashed its best Winter blast, the media lambasted Ballarat and the Mayor Samantha McIntosh said at that time that "Lighting improvements will be part of any Council conditions for future stadium upgrades", so what happened? Wouldn't it be easier to relocate the existing light towers to the new athletics centre and install new higher output LED fitted light towers similar to those at Ikon Park and the VUWO for a piddling sum of $4 million? Crickets!!!!

You do realise that as long as the existing lighting situation remains that Ballarat will never get prime time free-to-air TV exposure, or have a shot at hosting BBL cricket in Summer like Launceston, Canberra, Cairns and even Albury currently do? It does seem to be almost anti "Development Victoria" doesn't it? An awkward laugh was the response.

Q. You are effectively removing a 4000-capacity standing hill and replacing with two stands of 5000 seating, does this mean that capacity will increase?
A. The Council think that 11,000 is a good number in consideration of prevailing parking and transport access limitations. My response - That probably makes sense given that the State Government have indicated that they are not interested in building a train platform or railway station in the vicinity this side of 2030. I noticed on the drive in tonight that the old MB Johns site is now being carved up and will soon be covered with small commercial and industrial businesses. That was perfect for development of sports fields and carparking, it seems like an opportunity lost.

Q. Okay, so what about the South-Western boundary between the existing video scoreboard and the South-Western standing hill. Is there a plan to increase standing elevated capacity in that part of the ground?
A. That part of the ground will be modified, including shifting the scoreboard around the boundary toward the goals and there will be elevated pathways constructed so there will be some increased elevated standing area in that zone. Our aim is to enhance total accessibility around the stadium. That there will be no stairs or ramps, just gradiented pathways. We will even modify the whole Gate 2 entrance to remove steps and the existing ramp

Q. Why did the designers create two stands and propose to place them where they have? Wouldn't it have been better to extend the existing main stand southward to block the southerly winds that have significant impact on the on field play?
A. The Ballarat Council insisted that they didn't want a big stand or a Kardinia Park clone, that they wanted the stadium to retain a regional vibe. So the two stands were made smaller and strategically positioned to frame the historic Selkirk Chimney from the main TV camera angle. ... You mean the expensive pay-to-view Kayo TV camera angle? ... A polite awkward laugh was the response.

Q. You are no doubt aware that the original architects (Peddle Thorp) future proofed the begezzus out of this stadium as part of the first stage design and build?
A. What do you mean? ... For instance, the existing stands were designed for expansion with minimal cost and effort. Look across at the Eastern Stand. The roof is designed to be removed easily and up to 20 rows added rearward to extend that stand's capacity by a further 2000. I can see how easy it would be to remove the existing roof and more or less create a new 3000 capacity stand that matches the design of two new stands that are about to be built. Eventually you would have three stands identical around the eastern boundary of the stadium comprising 8000 seats?

At this point, they realised that my husband and I knew a fair bit about the stadium's development and their answers became more on point

A. (The Ballarat Council representative looking at me surprised interjected to respond) You are exactly right! We did examine that as one of our first options for this stage but presently the boundary for the stadium's fence line along Creswick Road is too close to make those changes, but we are now seeking to extend the fence boundary out by several metres toward Creswick road to allow for the next stage of seating expansion to occur on the Eastern Stand as part of any future expansion works.

They did ask us at this point what our interest was in this, and I explained that I was an interested former North Ballarat Sports Club worker and we are both North Melbourne Tragics. The guy who I spoke to said "Quote ... North Melbourne could be playing two games a year on this ground along with the Bulldogs in the future". I responded ... "Not likely, the Western Bulldogs fought tooth and nail to get North Melbourne the Hell out of Ballarat in 2014 striking a deal with Dan Andrews. Yes, North had a fantastic relationship here with the Roosters and it supported both clubs wonderfully. North even built up a big support base here locally by 2014, but the Bulldogs have invested a lot of time and resources to establish their roots here in the community and to build a strong support base among the kids in the schools since 2015. They definitely would NOT welcome or want any other club sharing territory here ... Seriously, that isn't going to happen. I would consider Bendigo and the development of the Queen Elizabeth Oval as a serious alternative consideration for North Melbourne, but they need to get on the front foot now with that and not lob back into Victoria four years from now scratching their heads. If they want funding for that, they have to start now.

Q. You have allocated a generous recreational parkland on the Western side of the old Showgrounds, why not expand carparking there?
A. The Council indicated that they wanted that space reserved for future recreational use. They indicated that the area should be big enough to accommodate a future soccer pitch.

Q. These are going to be reasonably large stands by regional standards, how much bigger a higher will they each be relative to the existing Western Stand as a reference point?
A. The new stands will occupy a bigger footprint because the existing Western Stand currently seats 3200. The new stands will be a bit higher because they will have up to 30 rows of seating, but he seating pitch will be identical to the Western Stand. The roofline will be about 25 metres at their highest point relative to the oval, whereas the Western Stand is 17 metres above the boundary.

Q. How will the space underneath the new stands be used?
A. These areas will accommodate toilets, dedicated mother's rooms for baby changing and feeding etc. Additional change rooms and official areas for first aid, plus we will have under cover dedicated zones for food vans. ... That's fair enough, it would be a waste of resource to build dedicated kitchens and bars particularly when a lot of the charm of coming to a game here involves the range of food choices that come from the local food vans and the simple fact that the prices are cheaper and you can have a full-strength bevvy from a can. On a personal note, I am glad that you've kept the old scoreboard. Back in the day I served cans from the old "Can Bar"

Q. On a different subject ... The athletics facility. A blue athletics track?
A. We have decided that the track will be a unique blue to match the blue of the original Eureka Flag. We have worked closely with the Ballarat Athletics Association to deliver what we believe will be the very best facility outside a capital city in Australia. The new athletics complex will feature a very modern clubhouse with three rows of covered seating along its frontage and new light towers.

There was more general discussion after that over tea and scones, but it was of a more general nature. I hope that I have shed some light on this for you all. There are some plusses (increased seating with better elevated viewing and better amenities), but I also personally think ... Not enoug (capacity will only moderately increase by about 1000, carparking and lights remain as the two issues that hamstring the potential of this stadium), my feelings on this upgrade are mixed but overall still positive.

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Great post. Awesome questions. I am constantly staggered by the incompetence of local councils in this recent era. I know we vote for them but their short sightedness is next level. To think this ‘stadium’ would look anything like Kardinia Park is a ludicrous answer. The southern end is ripe for the stand (cold southerlies) not where the hill is. That fact they are pulling down a 4,000 capacity hill for $120,000,000 two small grandstands with a capacity of 5000 is crazy. And the existing big grandstand was designed to be extended? And then to worry about a chimney for the tv cameras?
We need to do cheaper sloped terraces with seating without the roof structure in Australia like many other countries do, US and UK seek to do well. This type of set up would be perfect for outer wing at the Western Oval too, at least to about 25 rows of seating?

 

[Roogal]

Great post. Awesome questions. I am constantly staggered by the incompetence of local councils in this recent era. I know we vote for them but their short sightedness is next level. To think this ‘stadium’ would look anything like Kardinia Park is a ludicrous answer. The southern end is ripe for the stand (cold southerlies) not where the hill is. That fact they are pulling down a 4,000 capacity hill for $120,000,000 two small grandstands with a capacity of 5000 is crazy. And the existing big grandstand was designed to be extended? And then to worry about a chimney for the tv cameras?
We need to do cheaper sloped terraces with seating without the roof structure in Australia like many other countries do, US and UK seek to do well. This type of set up would be perfect for outer wing at the Western Oval too, at least to about 25 rows of seating?

Well said.

 

[lachy]

Well said.

Roogal firstly thank you for your updates, really appreciate the effort you go to in keeping us updated.

We do disagree, to the extent I hope the venture reverts back to the Roos and we properly fully focus on the Western region of Melbourne, 10 times the size of Ballarat and growing.

Personally love Ballarat, my Dad is from there, but we are a Western Suburbs of Melbourne Club. We have a population rivalling all capitals bar Sydney, all energy should be focused here

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Roogal]

Roogal firstly thank you for your updates, really appreciate the effort you go to in keeping us updated.

We do disagree, to the extent I hope the venture reverts back to the Roos and we properly fully focus on the Western region of Melbourne, 10 times the size of Ballarat and growing.

Personally love Ballarat, my Dad is from there, but we are a Western Suburbs of Melbourne Club. We have a population rivalling all capitals bar Sydney, all energy should be focused here

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

You are right, the Western Side of Melbourne is booming, but not with Australians. It will be interesting to see what sports the Indian, SE Asian, Sri-Lankan and Sikh immigrants adopt in Australia. The A-League are hedging their bets that they will likely be drawn toward soccer. Now that Western United finally have the basics of their new stadium open for business in Tarneit it will test and challenge AFL support in those areas. But at least they'll like cricket and there won't be any problems pulling crowds to VUWO in summer to watch BBL and local cricket games. There's going to be a battle royal between AFL and soccer to win the hearts and minds of migrant school children in Melbourne's booming west.

Another thing to consider is that country football is struggling. It is dying in some areas where townships can barely pull enough interested youths together to form junior teams which ultimately affects the senior teams. Even in cities like Ballarat and Bendigo competition from basketball and soccer has seen the local footy comps not growing while the number of kids playing basketball and soccer has trebbled. I read in The Age last year that in Tassie, football is dying. Local footy comps are shrinking, not one new oval built in 10 years but 30 new basketball stadiums have been built over there since 2010. The AFL are acutely aware of this and have realised that if they keep football contained in the capital cities that it will kill country interest even further. Hence why they are playing games in Darwin, Alice Springs, Launceston, Hobart, Ballarat and parts of regional SA. The country leagues have fed a lot of great players to AFL in the past and nobody wants to lose that in the future.

The Western Bulldogs have put in a lot of work in the schools across Western Victoria (not just in Ballarat) to win future legions of supporters but more importantly to keep kids focussed on Aussie Rules. And I absolutely applaud that.

 

[Freshwater]

You are right, the Western Side of Melbourne is booming, but not with Australians. It will be interesting to see what sports the Indian, SE Asian, Sri-Lankan and Sikh immigrants adopt in Australia. The A-League are hedging their bets that they will likely be drawn toward soccer. Now that Western United finally have the basics of their new stadium open for business in Tarneit it will test and challenge AFL support in those areas. But at least they'll like cricket and there won't be any problems pulling crowds to VUWO in summer to watch BBL and local cricket games. There's going to be a battle royal between AFL and soccer to win the hearts and minds of migrant school children in Melbourne's booming west.

Another thing to consider is that country football is struggling. It is dying in some areas where townships can barely pull enough interested youths together to form junior teams which ultimately affects the senior teams. Even in cities like Ballarat and Bendigo competition from basketball and soccer has seen the local footy comps not growing while the number of kids playing basketball and soccer has trebbled. I read in The Age last year that in Tassie, football is dying. Local footy comps are shrinking, not one new oval built in 10 years but 30 new basketball stadiums have been built over there since 2010. The AFL are acutely aware of this and have realised that if they keep football contained in the capital cities that it will kill country interest even further. Hence why they are playing games in Darwin, Alice Springs, Launceston, Hobart, Ballarat and parts of regional SA. The country leagues have fed a lot of great players to AFL in the past and nobody wants to lose that in the future.

The Western Bulldogs have put in a lot of work in the schools across Western Victoria (not just in Ballarat) to win future legions of supporters but more importantly to keep kids focussed on Aussie Rules. And I absolutely applaud that.

Another great post. Aussie Rules football has has an incredible history of existence across a wide demographic and classes. This is rapidly changing for the worse. This is becoming a private school game, ran by a privileged private clique who don’t really get the Western Suburbs and every wave of migrants to Australia. Aussie rules grounds suit cricket and BBL on a warm summer’s night at the Whitten Oval and Mars Stadium would be fantastic.
The new Indian migrants play cricket on our Aussie rules ovals now, even in winter! But what will their children play? That is up to us at the Bulldogs and the AFL’s help too to make these kids footy fans and players.
Why wouldn’t we at the Bulldogs have a ‘new western suburbs migrants’ round with Indian and other flags incorporated into our jumper? Let’s get them on board.

 

[Libbaaaa]

You are right, the Western Side of Melbourne is booming, but not with Australians. It will be interesting to see what sports the Indian, SE Asian, Sri-Lankan and Sikh immigrants adopt in Australia. The A-League are hedging their bets that they will likely be drawn toward soccer. Now that Western United finally have the basics of their new stadium open for business in Tarneit it will test and challenge AFL support in those areas. But at least they'll like cricket and there won't be any problems pulling crowds to VUWO in summer to watch BBL and local cricket games. There's going to be a battle royal between AFL and soccer to win the hearts and minds of migrant school children in Melbourne's booming west.

Another thing to consider is that country football is struggling. It is dying in some areas where townships can barely pull enough interested youths together to form junior teams which ultimately affects the senior teams. Even in cities like Ballarat and Bendigo competition from basketball and soccer has seen the local footy comps not growing while the number of kids playing basketball and soccer has trebbled. I read in The Age last year that in Tassie, football is dying. Local footy comps are shrinking, not one new oval built in 10 years but 30 new basketball stadiums have been built over there since 2010. The AFL are acutely aware of this and have realised that if they keep football contained in the capital cities that it will kill country interest even further. Hence why they are playing games in Darwin, Alice Springs, Launceston, Hobart, Ballarat and parts of regional SA. The country leagues have fed a lot of great players to AFL in the past and nobody wants to lose that in the future.

The Western Bulldogs have put in a lot of work in the schools across Western Victoria (not just in Ballarat) to win future legions of supporters but more importantly to keep kids focussed on Aussie Rules. And I absolutely applaud that.

That stadium in Tarneit is never getting built for soccer.

 

[dogwatch]

You are right, the Western Side of Melbourne is booming, but not with Australians. It will be interesting to see what sports the Indian, SE Asian, Sri-Lankan and Sikh immigrants adopt in Australia. The A-League are hedging their bets that they will likely be drawn toward soccer. Now that Western United finally have the basics of their new stadium open for business in Tarneit it will test and challenge AFL support in those areas. But at least they'll like cricket and there won't be any problems pulling crowds to VUWO in summer to watch BBL and local cricket games. There's going to be a battle royal between AFL and soccer to win the hearts and minds of migrant school children in Melbourne's booming west.

Another thing to consider is that country football is struggling. It is dying in some areas where townships can barely pull enough interested youths together to form junior teams which ultimately affects the senior teams. Even in cities like Ballarat and Bendigo competition from basketball and soccer has seen the local footy comps not growing while the number of kids playing basketball and soccer has trebbled. I read in The Age last year that in Tassie, football is dying. Local footy comps are shrinking, not one new oval built in 10 years but 30 new basketball stadiums have been built over there since 2010. The AFL are acutely aware of this and have realised that if they keep football contained in the capital cities that it will kill country interest even further. Hence why they are playing games in Darwin, Alice Springs, Launceston, Hobart, Ballarat and parts of regional SA. The country leagues have fed a lot of great players to AFL in the past and nobody wants to lose that in the future.

The Western Bulldogs have put in a lot of work in the schools across Western Victoria (not just in Ballarat) to win future legions of supporters but more importantly to keep kids focussed on Aussie Rules. And I absolutely applaud that.

Good points about the competition from soccer and basketball, and the decline of the game at grass roots level in the country.

I take issue with your using the term "booming, but not with Australians". These people are as Australian as the Liberatores, the Bontempellis, the Houlis, the Saads, the Jongs and the Zurhaars, none of whose families would have been here for more than a generation. Or two at the most. However I get what you mean and I agree there is a competition for their sporting allegiance and it needs to be addressed.

It doesn't have to be one or the other though. Most keen sports fans will follow several sports and will attend games if the standard is high and the experience an enjoyable one. So even if the Australians from South Asia are cricket fanatics they can still be enticed to follow a club and attend games.

Getting kids to play the game at junior level is hard. I have no contact with any junior AFL these days but I'd hope they play with reduced team sizes, not 16-18 per side. Junior soccer can be played with 11 or fewer players per team. Basketball only needs 5-6. Can AFL do the same? It makes it easier to put a team on the park (or court), or to field multiple teams that can be graded to cater for different levels of ability. If it's not a fun experience for the kids and their parents they will go elsewhere.

Anyway I'd ask the usual Mexican girl question: why can't we promote footy in the country AND in the western suburbs? Are we stretched so thin that we can't do both? Surely not!

 

[BeMoreBont]

Don't underestimate the effect of parents steering kids away from AFL due to the heavily publicised concussion issues. Every second game there's a player laying unconcious after a head knock. I know my wife sees that and routinely says our boys won't be playing footy.

 

[Roogal]

That stadium in Tarneit is never getting built for soccer.

It probably will happen, it's just evolving slower than what they first promised. The first stage of it is opened now with an 800 seat permanent stand and 2000 scaffold seats on the other side of their training pitch which they intend to use to play all home games until their long promised 15K capacity main stadium is built. Their training pitch can hold 5000 ATM. Western United aren't interested in playing any more games in Ballarat or Geelong, because they are now able to play regularly at Tarneit and can now focus on building and expanding their support where they perceive their primary support base to be (amongst the massively booming sub-continental Asian migrant suburbs of Western and South-Western Melbourne).

 

[Roogal]

Good points about the competition from soccer and basketball, and the decline of the game at grass roots level in the country.

I take issue with your using the term "booming, but not with Australians".

It doesn't have to be one or the other though. Most keen sports fans will follow several sports and will attend games if the standard is high and the experience an enjoyable one. So even if the Australians from South Asia are cricket fanatics they can still be enticed to follow a club and attend games.

Getting kids to play the game at junior level is hard. I have no contact with any junior AFL these days but I'd hope they play with reduced team sizes, not 16-18 per side. Junior soccer can be played with 11 or fewer players per team. Basketball only needs 5-6. Can AFL do the same? It makes it easier to put a team on the park (or court), or to field multiple teams that can be graded to cater for different levels of ability. If it's not a fun experience for the kids and their parents they will go elsewhere.

Anyway I'd ask the usual Mexican girl question: why can't we promote footy in the country AND in the western suburbs? Are we stretched so thin that we can't do both? Surely not!

In reference I should have said 'non-native born Australians' or to use an older expression 'New Australians'. My point being about the ethnicity and cultural groups who are populating Melbourne's West en-masse. Culturally they are likely to be drawn to more tradional sports that they have an affinity with at least for the first two generations. I've simply highlighted the fact that having the Western Bulldogs based at Footscray won't automatically garner or guarantee support from 600,000 new migrants and their kids if those folks feel no cultural or sporting affinity with Aussie Rules football. The phenomenom that I am painting a picture of is not too dissimilar to the AFL's very long and drawn out efforts to build AFL support in Rugby League heartland of Western Sydney and the Gold Coast, because despite all the money invested, their improved playing performances and efforts to grow a support base those teams still have bugger all support.

Don't get me wrong on this, the Dogs can draw a huge market in the west Melbourne, let's not forget that Aussie Rules was initially started up by the cricket clubs as a way of keeping players fit throughout Winter, perhaps that should be the selling point to the Asian migrant communities.

The Bulldogs already get some 9-10 home games per season at Marvel in addition to all the games played at Marvel and MCG in Melbourne and Geelong against other Victorian teams for their home games. Accounting for Ballarat the Bulldogs are actually playing as many Victorian based games per season as the bigger teams like Carlton, Collingwood, Geelong, Richmond and Essendon. So at the end of the day I consider that the Bulldogs are doing extremely well under their current arrangements.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I've simply highlighted the fact that having the Western Bulldogs based at Footscray won't automatically garner or guarantee support from 600,000 new migrants and their kids if those folks feel no cultural or sporting affinity with Aussie Rules football

I would think AFL is pretty well established in schools (along with other sports of course), thanks to the community work done by clubs, and when new arrivals turn up to school they couldn’t help but notice kids playing this strange game. They might be intrigued enough to want to find out more, and have a go in a desire to fit in. The kids will pull in the parents, if they are enthusiastic enough.

 

[Roogal]

Grounds for concern after weekend deluge pounds Ballarat ovals​

Max Faulkner of North Ballarat and Conrad Farrugia of Melton slip through the surface at Mars Stadium on Saturday. Picture by Lachlan Bence

A weekend of soaking rain has left many of Ballarat's finals football venues in a poor state just one month out from the start of the finals. Eastern Oval hosts the Ballarat Football League women's grand final on August 31, Mars Stadium will host the Central Highlands Football League grand final, as well as the Western Bulldogs round 24 AFL clash with the GWS Giants, and City Oval, which hosts the Ballarat Football Netball League grand final, have all copped a drenching in the past week. Some are in what some BFNL coaches described at the weekend as 'the worst condition they have seen'.

Ballarat has already received 69.8mm of rain this month, more than the July average of 66mm. While wet weather isn't necessarily detrimental to the condition of venues, the fact that the wet weather has happened while there is heavy foot traffic on the grounds is what has turned the ovals into a sodden and muddy mess.

Mars Stadium appears to be the biggest concern, considering North Ballarat is scheduled to play Bacchus Marsh next Saturday, followed by two GWV Rebels games on Sunday, meaning five games will be played at the weekend on the showpiece venue. The Victorian under-15 schoolboys and youth girls football championships are also scheduled to be played at the venue in the week in AFL grand final week as well as at Learmonth. Learmonth itself has its last three games of the Central Highlands Football League at home.

The day after the rain before and Eastern Oval was a quagmire. Picture by Kate Healy

With the amount of traffic the venues could receive over the coming weeks, there is a possibility the City of Ballarat could be forced to reschedule local games or force clubs such as the Roosters and the Rebels to train elsewhere. City of Ballarat mayor Des Hudson said council would monitor all venues this week, but hoped a dry forecast would help the ovals to recover. "The City of Ballarat ground staff are closely monitoring the condition of all sporting surfaces, which have been placed under strain following sustained wet and cold weather," he said. "Maintaining the standards of our sporting surfaces can prove challenging during particularly wet winters. As of Sunday July 21, there had been 10 consecutive days of rainfall in Ballarat, totaling more than 56mm of rain.

"With drier weather forecast this week, we will undertake a series of works to present the surfaces in the best possible conditions. We will also continue working closely with clubs to encourage training on drier sections of ovals or modifying training to protect playing surfaces, but at this stage there are no current plans to shift training locations. "Later this week, we will consider if any matches planned at Mars Stadium this coming weekend can be relocated. "As of next week, we will also be laying new turf on sections of Mars Stadium and we are confident it will be in its usual elite condition for an AFL match on the final home and away round of the season."

After Saturday's match between North Ballarat and Melton, both coaches said the ground was the wettest they had seen.
Melton coach Troy Scoble said he was surprised that the ground remained as wet as it did. "The grandstand side of the ground was under water," he said. "The other side of the ground stayed quite firm and was in reasonable condition, I would have thought, given the weather.

The goals squares at City Oval have been roped off for use, but the centre square is holding up well. Picture by Adam Trafford

"The water did not drain 1 mm for the entire day. There were just puddles everywhere which I have to say I thought was quite strange for an AFL venue. "I think having three games on there on Saturday really did chop it up, it'll be interesting to see what they do going forward."

Eastern Oval is also likely to need rest at some point given it is the only major finals venue in Ballarat which also hosts cricket. East Point has two more home matches to come against Lake Wendouree on August 3 and North Ballarat on August 10 before the women's grand final three weeks later. City Oval largely escaped the weekend's downpour as Redan played away at Sunbury, however, it did host junior football on Sunday. As of Monday the goal squares at each end had been roped off, but the centre remained firm. Redan also has two more home games to come against Melton South on August 10 and North Ballarat on August 17.

As a Postscript to this news article. I was in Ballarat on Tuesday having lunch at the North Ballarat Sports Club and noticed that the surface at Mars Stadium did indeed seem quite worn but not too chopped up, mainly just obviously wet and soggy looking. It had some slightly muddy patches and was clearly soaked. How ever the council was spraying the surface with a green dyed solution which I was told kills broad leaf weeds (A common problem in the country). It was certainly nowhere near the same state as the Eastern Oval which has a cricket wicket at its centre, the main reason why it turns into a quagmire. Mars at the moment looks more like the City Oval image above.

I am reckoning that the council will re-direct most upcoming BFNL games over the next month to rest the surface at Mars Stadium, replace some worn sections with new turf and that they will be hitting it daily with a super sopper to help it regenerate. Rest assured that it will be at its best for the late August game.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Grounds for concern after weekend deluge pounds Ballarat ovals​

Max Faulkner of North Ballarat and Conrad Farrugia of Melton slip through the surface at Mars Stadium on Saturday. Picture by Lachlan Bence

A weekend of soaking rain has left many of Ballarat's finals football venues in a poor state just one month out from the start of the finals. Eastern Oval hosts the Ballarat Football League women's grand final on August 31, Mars Stadium will host the Central Highlands Football League grand final, as well as the Western Bulldogs round 24 AFL clash with the GWS Giants, and City Oval, which hosts the Ballarat Football Netball League grand final, have all copped a drenching in the past week. Some are in what some BFNL coaches described at the weekend as 'the worst condition they have seen'.

Ballarat has already received 69.8mm of rain this month, more than the July average of 66mm. While wet weather isn't necessarily detrimental to the condition of venues, the fact that the wet weather has happened while there is heavy foot traffic on the grounds is what has turned the ovals into a sodden and muddy mess.

Mars Stadium appears to be the biggest concern, considering North Ballarat is scheduled to play Bacchus Marsh next Saturday, followed by two GWV Rebels games on Sunday, meaning five games will be played at the weekend on the showpiece venue. The Victorian under-15 schoolboys and youth girls football championships are also scheduled to be played at the venue in the week in AFL grand final week as well as at Learmonth. Learmonth itself has its last three games of the Central Highlands Football League at home.

The day after the rain before and Eastern Oval was a quagmire. Picture by Kate Healy

With the amount of traffic the venues could receive over the coming weeks, there is a possibility the City of Ballarat could be forced to reschedule local games or force clubs such as the Roosters and the Rebels to train elsewhere. City of Ballarat mayor Des Hudson said council would monitor all venues this week, but hoped a dry forecast would help the ovals to recover. "The City of Ballarat ground staff are closely monitoring the condition of all sporting surfaces, which have been placed under strain following sustained wet and cold weather," he said. "Maintaining the standards of our sporting surfaces can prove challenging during particularly wet winters. As of Sunday July 21, there had been 10 consecutive days of rainfall in Ballarat, totaling more than 56mm of rain.

"With drier weather forecast this week, we will undertake a series of works to present the surfaces in the best possible conditions. We will also continue working closely with clubs to encourage training on drier sections of ovals or modifying training to protect playing surfaces, but at this stage there are no current plans to shift training locations. "Later this week, we will consider if any matches planned at Mars Stadium this coming weekend can be relocated. "As of next week, we will also be laying new turf on sections of Mars Stadium and we are confident it will be in its usual elite condition for an AFL match on the final home and away round of the season."

After Saturday's match between North Ballarat and Melton, both coaches said the ground was the wettest they had seen.
Melton coach Troy Scoble said he was surprised that the ground remained as wet as it did. "The grandstand side of the ground was under water," he said. "The other side of the ground stayed quite firm and was in reasonable condition, I would have thought, given the weather.

The goals squares at City Oval have been roped off for use, but the centre square is holding up well. Picture by Adam Trafford

"The water did not drain 1 mm for the entire day. There were just puddles everywhere which I have to say I thought was quite strange for an AFL venue. "I think having three games on there on Saturday really did chop it up, it'll be interesting to see what they do going forward."

Eastern Oval is also likely to need rest at some point given it is the only major finals venue in Ballarat which also hosts cricket. East Point has two more home matches to come against Lake Wendouree on August 3 and North Ballarat on August 10 before the women's grand final three weeks later. City Oval largely escaped the weekend's downpour as Redan played away at Sunbury, however, it did host junior football on Sunday. As of Monday the goal squares at each end had been roped off, but the centre remained firm. Redan also has two more home games to come against Melton South on August 10 and North Ballarat on August 17.

As a Postscript to this news article. I was in Ballarat on Tuesday having lunch at the North Ballarat Sports Club and noticed that the surface at Mars Stadium did indeed seem quite worn but not too chopped up, mainly just obviously wet and soggy looking. It had some slightly muddy patches and was clearly soaked. How ever the council was spraying the surface with a green dyed solution which I was told kills broad leaf weeds (A common problem in the country). It was certainly nowhere near the same state as the Eastern Oval which has a cricket wicket at its centre, the main reason why it turns into a quagmire. Mars at the moment looks more like the City Oval image above.

I am reckoning that the council will re-direct most upcoming BFNL games over the next month to rest the surface at Mars Stadium, replace some worn sections with new turf and that they will be hitting it daily with a super sopper to help it regenerate. Rest assured that it will be at its best for the late August game.

I'm told by someone who should know that Mars will be fine for R24.

Eastern Oval on the other hand...
Tbh I'm surprised City Oval is holding up so well.

 

[lachy]

A bugger issue is we could be playing for top 4 or finals, home ground capacity 11,000 members pushing 60,000.

Hope we are getting an embarrassing amount of money for this farce

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BallaratBulldog]

A bugger issue is we could be playing for top 4 or finals, home ground capacity 11,000 members pushing 60,000.

Hope we are getting an embarrassing amount of money for this farce

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Those 59,000 members don’t and won’t turn up to a game all at once.

GWS at marvel got 16k and 18k in the past, with the only exception was post a flag with such hype that came from it. While i am sure we would get a better crowd this year than 18k, it still will not profit with the deal there

The money from Ballarat as well as the loss of operating at marvel will mean these games will stay until supporters turn up at the very least. Look at the crowds, not the membership numbers that can be fudged in various ways.

GWS is a good candidate for these games. (plus they send us to Canberra so they can’t complain)

 

[lachy]

Those 59,000 members don’t and won’t turn up to a game all at once.

GWS at marvel got 16k and 18k in the past, with the only exception was post a flag with such hype that came from it. While i am sure we would get a better crowd this year than 18k, it still will not profit with the deal there

The money from Ballarat as well as the loss of operating at marvel will mean these games will stay until supporters turn up at the very least. Look at the crowds, not the membership numbers that can be fudged in various ways.

GWS is a good candidate for these games. (plus they send us to Canberra so they can’t complain)

Well 55,000 of them will have no choice with the home game possibly to make finals, maybe top 4 playing there.

But that's OK punish the at least 10,000 regular home game attendees plus those whose local football commitments will be done by then for the which better be substantial

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Roogal]

A bugger issue is we could be playing for top 4 or finals, home ground capacity 11,000 members pushing 60,000.

Hope we are getting an embarrassing amount of money for this farce

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

If they weren't making money from it, they likely wouldn't be playing there. As your club President said five years ago, "We make the equivalent turnover by playing one game at Cazaly's or Mars Stadium than what we do playing three games in front of 31,000 fans at Docklands". While I am a bit disappointed that the 2026 ground upgrade won't result in that much increase to its capacity, it has to be said that it is already a big improvement to what it was in 2017 as a result of the 2022 upgrades, and by 2026 at least there will be 10,000 seats under cover. In time, it will get the lighting upgrades and transport access upgrades that it needs before any future expansion can realistically occur.

The government have to spread sports facility upgrades evenly across the state which means that only a limited amount of funds are made available for upgrades at Mars. Considering the tens of billions of cost overruns on the North East Link and West Gate Tunnel projects in Melbourne are sucking out of the State's coffers, we are damn lucky that we are getting anything at all. It will be interesting to see how they are going to fund the proposed rebuild of the GSS at the MCG or any further works for Marvel.

I would anticipate that the next round of upgrades at Mars after the 2026 construction of the new stands will likely occur with the next government around 2028-30. The LNP seem to be making a heck of a lot of noise as to why this government haven't prioritised the train platform/station. I will be fascinated to see if they are good for their word if elected in 2026.

 

[Roogal]

Those 59,000 members don’t and won’t turn up to a game all at once.

GWS at marvel got 16k and 18k in the past, with the only exception was post a flag with such hype that came from it. While i am sure we would get a better crowd this year than 18k, it still will not profit with the deal there

The money from Ballarat as well as the loss of operating at marvel will mean these games will stay until supporters turn up at the very least. Look at the crowds, not the membership numbers that can be fudged in various ways.

GWS is a good candidate for these games. (plus they send us to Canberra so they can’t complain)

It is true and historically the Bulldogs playing GWS at Mars have never achieved a near capacity crowd, their highest attendance being on 29 July 2023 - 9080. It will be interesting to see what August's game attracts, particularly if the Bulldogs and GWS are both battling for a final eight placing. If the AFL were to shift the game from Ballarat because of anticipated crowd numbers exceeding 40,000 at Marvel then I think that the game ought to be shifted away to Marvel. But that decision needs to be made at least two weeks in advance so as not to impact catering businesses in Ballarat.

When a game got cancelled there three years ago with two days notice, some smaller catering businesses lost thousands for food that they had pre-ordered. It impacted accommodation with cancelled bookings.

Melanie Whelan of the Ballarat Courier wrote an excellent editorial in last week's Courier stating that there was an emerging trend to shift all major sporting events nationally away from regions and locate only in Capital cities. There is a view from many in Melbourne that everything must happen there and that regions can go to buggery. It's insulting enough to regional Victorians that 85% of Victoria's infrastructure spending occurs in a city that contains 74% of the state's population which goes a long way toward explaining why Victoria's regional roads are crap. The joke in country Victoria is that "The rest of Australia drives on the Left Side of the roads, in country Victoria we just just drive on what's left of ours".

 

[lachy]

If they weren't making money from it, they likely wouldn't be playing there. As your club President said five years ago, "We make the equivalent turnover by playing one game at Cazaly's or Mars Stadium than what we do playing three games in front of 31,000 fans at Docklands". While I am a bit disappointed that the 2026 ground upgrade won't result in that much increase to its capacity, it has to be said that it is already a big improvement to what it was in 2017 as a result of the 2022 upgrades, and by 2026 at least there will be 10,000 seats under cover. In time, it will get the lighting upgrades and transport access upgrades that it needs before any future expansion can realistically occur.

The government have to spread sports facility upgrades evenly across the state which means that only a limited amount of funds are made available for upgrades at Mars. Considering the tens of billions of cost overruns on the North East Link and West Gate Tunnel projects in Melbourne are sucking out of the State's coffers, we are damn lucky that we are getting anything at all. It will be interesting to see how they are going to fund the proposed rebuild of the GSS at the MCG or any further works for Marvel.

I would anticipate that the next round of upgrades at Mars after the 2026 construction of the new stands will likely occur with the next government around 2028-30. The LNP seem to be making a heck of a lot of noise as to why this government haven't prioritised the train platform/station. I will be fascinated to see if they are good for their word if elected in 2026.

Roogal, given the current deal, expires this year, there was talk of an early extension.

Is this still on track or is at some risk given the states finances? As you are correct with your post on the finances at that time and in 2021 when it was renewed

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[Mr. Walker]

Is Ballarat a marginal seat? Not looking anywhere else in Victoria ( certainly not anywhere south west of Melbourne but close) but if a few thousand more people in Footscray area and in Ballarat would change the way they vote ( not necessarily to change the sitting member but close) it could be that the required funding is miraculously found. Just saying

 

[_Cerberus_]

Is Ballarat a marginal seat? Not looking anywhere else in Victoria ( certainly not anywhere south west of Melbourne but close) but if a few thousand more people in Footscray area and in Ballarat would change the way they vote ( not necessarily to change the sitting member but close) it could be that the required funding is miraculously found. Just saying

It has been a safe Labor seat for around 20 years now.

 

[Roogal]

Is Ballarat a marginal seat? Not looking anywhere else in Victoria ( certainly not anywhere south west of Melbourne but close) but if a few thousand more people in Footscray area and in Ballarat would change the way they vote ( not necessarily to change the sitting member but close) it could be that the required funding is miraculously found. Just saying

Safe Labor both State and Federal. It gets all major infrastructure spending from State and not a brass razoo Federally. Catherine King does nothing for the city or immediate region yet she holds her seat Federally. Go figure?