Autopsy Lions prevail by 10

[Tony Barber]

Longmire is not the best coach in the AFL.
His team barely made it through to the preliminary final having had to fall back on their academy pick to do so.

Look at the teams he has had the luxury of coaching throughout his tenure.
He is currently 1-4 in leading his side in grand finals. The last showing was absolutely horrendous.

I wouldn't be surprised Brisbane not only win, but win easily. That is Longmire for you as a coach.

Does it really matter?
But he is on the podium.

I cant believe you brought up the academy pick when we would not have had Selwood if it wasn't for the father son rule.

 

[TEDDY24INC]

It certainly wouldn't have been me that grilled you.
I once thought that if I could pick one player running up to 50 to kick a goal to save my life then he's my man.

Not anymore.
I've unfortunately lost trust in most things he does.

Getting him to 300 as some have suggested because it seems nice is a complete joke.
And completely unprofessional.

Its not who we believe the cats to be.
It's time.

I think Mitch needs to also have some self reflection here and pull the pin himself, it’s quite clear he is well off the pace now, Father Time waits for no one

 

[Seeds]

Does it really matter?
But he is on the podium.

I cant believe you brought up the academy pick when we would not have had Selwood if it wasn't for the father son rule.

Selwood father son rule?

 

[Finknottle]

It certainly wouldn't have been me that grilled you.
I once thought that if I could pick one player running up to 50 to kick a goal to save my life then he's my man.

Not anymore.
I've unfortunately lost trust in most things he does.

Getting him to 300 as some have suggested because it seems nice is a complete joke.
And completely unprofessional.

Its not who we believe the cats to be.
It's time.

When Geelong is on top and controlling the game Duncan looks great, he's a good distributor. However, when Geelong is under the pump Duncan looks slow and loses his composure. Having a slow old guy as substitute is an example of the MC's absurd decision making. Duncan needs to warm into a game. The sub needs to hit the ground running and often is required to make an immediate impact. Duncan and Substitute are mutually exclusive.

 

[cats_09]

Selwood father son rule?

I think he's implying if we had to choose between Selwood & Hawkins depending on which variation of the F&S draft rule you want to use

 

[Seeds]

I think he's implying if we had to choose between Selwood & Hawkins depending on which variation of the F&S draft rule you want to use

Ah ok now I get it.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Does it really matter?
But he is on the podium.

I cant believe you brought up the academy pick when we would not have had Selwood if it wasn't for the father son rule.

Father/Sons and academy picks are very different. The former is available to every club in equal measure. They're based on players having kids who develop well enough to play AFL so there's a lot of chance to it, but that means every club, after some time, should have about the same chance of getting them.

Academy players are something afforded unequally to expansion teams. Their promoted purpose is to help develop kids in non-traditional areas and get them into the AFL system. but what they really do is give a leg-up to clubs existing in areas the AFL wants to penetrate, hence Sydney remaining up top for as long as they have. It's not because of shrewd management, great coaching and player development; they have several quality players who were free hits to them and they had exclusive access to.

Also, in regards to your example about Selwood - the F/S has been greatly scaled back since then and we would not be able to get Hawkins and Selwood in the same draft now. Great at the time, but we couldn't do it again.

The AFL gives handouts to the clubs in non-traditional markets. It's very hard to deny this. They want to grow the game there so they can't have the teams mired in mediocrity for too long. They must be competitive. Sydney/Brisbane is a wet dream GF for them.

 

[rapidfire7]

When Geelong is on top and controlling the game Duncan looks great, he's a good distributor. However, when Geelong is under the pump Duncan looks slow and loses his composure. Having a slow old guy as substitute is an example of the MC's absurd decision making. Duncan needs to warm into a game. The sub needs to hit the ground running and often is required to make an immediate impact. Duncan and Substitute are mutually exclusive.

Agreed. The loyalty Chris has for his senior players these days is becoming counter productive. Duncan should not be playing on, but Chris won't kick him out. Had no such loyalty to Bartel, SJ, Stokes, Kelly etc. He made the hard calls which needed to be made.

 

[Tony Barber]

Father/Sons and academy picks are very different. The former is available to every club in equal measure. They're based on players having kids who develop well enough to play AFL so there's a lot of chance to it, but that means every club, after some time, should have about the same chance of getting them.

Academy players are something afforded unequally to expansion teams. Their promoted purpose is to help develop kids in non-traditional areas and get them into the AFL system. but what they really do is give a leg-up to clubs existing in areas the AFL wants to penetrate, hence Sydney remaining up top for as long as they have. It's not because of shrewd management, great coaching and player development; they have several quality players who were free hits to them and they had exclusive access to.

Also, in regards to your example about Selwood - the F/S has been greatly scaled back since then and we would not be able to get Hawkins and Selwood in the same draft now. Great at the time, but we couldn't do it again.

The AFL gives handouts to the clubs in non-traditional markets. It's very hard to deny this. They want to grow the game there so they can't have the teams mired in mediocrity for too long. They must be competitive. Sydney/Brisbane is a wet dream GF for them.

They are bloody not available to every club on equal measure.
I'll give you an example. Tasmania will not have access to a father son until 2047 ish.

Think about how many father sons that GWS and the suns have had the opportunity to take.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

They are bloody not available to every club on equal measure.
I'll give you an example. Tasmania will not have access to a father son until 2047 ish.

Think about how many father sons that GWS and the suns have had the opportunity to take.

That was the "after some time" part. And the difference is that Swans and Brisbane can (and do) get father/sons and their academy players. Other clubs do not.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Look he still let his opponent get a few easy marks early on, due to leading back toward goal instead of at the ball carrier.

But I loved his last quarter - not just the two goals but he was really in the thick of some other passages of play. Big effort in the last q of a big, close final. Nice to know that he has it in him.

He is one of those players that we need to move into that level on a consistent basis. He is on the cusp of being a star or just an also ran. Up to him .
Big preseason will help build up his tank.

 

[cats_09]

They are bloody not available to every club on equal measure.
I'll give you an example. Tasmania will not have access to a father son until 2047 ish.

Think about how many father sons that GWS and the suns have had the opportunity to take.

I'd think that the new Tassie team would have similar F&S considerations to what we've seen afforded to Adelaide, Port, WCE & Fremantle previously, when they first entered the competition:

West Australian and South Australian teams have modified rules in place, valid until the club has been in the AFL for 20 years, with eligibility to be determined by a certain number of games played for specific sides in state league:

Until October 31, 2007, West Coast can select any player whose father has made 150 WAFL appearances for Claremont, East Perth, West Perth or Subiaco.

Until October 31, 2010, Adelaide can select any player whose father played 200 SANFL appearances before 1990 for South Adelaide, Norwood, Glenelg or Sturt.

Until October 31, 2015, Fremantle may include any player whose father made 150 WAFL appearances for East Fremantle, South Fremantle, Perth or Swan Districts.

Until October 31, 2017, Port Adelaide may include any player whose father has made 200 SANFL appearances for Port Adelaide Magpies, North Adelaide, West Adelaide, Central District, Woodville or West Torrens

The Father-Son Rule

The current AFL Father-Son Rule

www.afl.com.au

GC & GWS have been afforded academies which clubs from "traditional" AFL states haven't been

 

[Gavin Excell]

Where does this game rank (if at all) in your most crushing losses list?

Big daddy is of course 2008 GF and 2020 wasn't a blast. But for me this is up there. I feel we let a great opportunity go by

 

[OzeSparky]

Ivan Soldo

13

Ivan Soldo

Age

28

Ht

204cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.1

3star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

24.2

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

3.1

1star

HB

4.1

3star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

23.0

5star

D

6.4

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.4

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

21.4

5star

wants a move from Port Adelaide to the Saints.

Is Jack Hayes gettable out of the Saints?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Where does this game rank (if at all) in your most crushing losses list?

Big daddy is of course 2008 GF and 2020 wasn't a blast. But for me this is up there. I feel we let a great opportunity go by

Not so high for me because I didn't think we were all that good this year and was surprised we got this far.

2013 PF was worse. 2019 even felt worse because we were minor premiers, stuffed up the QF against the Pies, and then let the PF slip to that Richmond team. That 2019 finals series was one huge choke. I don't think we choked this year. I think the outcome we got is in line with the side we had and out inconsistent performance through the season.

Performances like 2008, 2013, 2019, etc. hurt more because you (or at least I) felt that the side could do so much more than they ultimately did in September.

 

[No Quarter]

Where does this game rank (if at all) in your most crushing losses list?

Big daddy is of course 2008 GF and 2020 wasn't a blast. But for me this is up there. I feel we let a great opportunity go by

2008 gf
2010 prelim
2013 prelim
2016 prelim

2020 for some reason doesn't register as much for me. I think it's because I was reasonably intoxicated by the second half. That or I feel like 2020 overall and 2021 to a certain extent feel like asterisk seasons.

The ones that hurt are the ones that we're embarrassed by... though the 2013 we put in a brave effort, it was just a few stupid things we did in Q4 that let the game get away from us.

I won't be that critical or in pain over this loss - we competed hard til the end and that's all I can ask for.

 

[cats_09]

Saturday night hurt, no doubt but not as much as some of our previous finals efforts

Watching our QF against Port, I thought we were pretty good in the first, held up under pressure in the second and then when we started kicking away in the third, that's when I started getting that nervous energy & "we can do this" type feeling

On Saturday, the only time I really got that type of feeling & butterflies in the stomach that we could win, was after the late Henry goal which put us in front. Even at halftime I was thinking, that was a good quarter, but we need to keep going with it and never felt like we were in total control of things


This season overall, while disappointed with the ending, I'm also proud of what we were able to achieve, the next gen we were really able to blood games into and that we really started to see this team transition from the veterans to the next generation - feels excited to see what's to come

 

[Cattas_21]

Where does this game rank (if at all) in your most crushing losses list?

Big daddy is of course 2008 GF and 2020 wasn't a blast. But for me this is up there. I feel we let a great opportunity go by

For me:

1. 2008 GF
2. 1992 GF
3. 1995 GF
4. 1994 GF
5. 1997 SF
6. 2013 PF
7. 2024 PF
8. 2005 SF

I don't want to think about this topic any more so Ill stop there

 

[cats_09]

Coaches votes from Saturday

8 different players received votes, meaning the coaches only agreed on 2 players in the votes - L. Neale, and Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

25

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

or Ollie Henry

Also means that one thought Lester was BOG and the other didn't have the votes

 

[The_Koulouriotis_Fan]

Coaches votes from Saturday

8 different players received votes, meaning the coaches only agreed on 2 players in the votes - L. Neale, and Zac Bailey or Ollie Henry

Also means that one thought Lester was BOG and the other didn't have the votes

View attachment 2119256View attachment 2119256

Anyone work out the breakdown? My guess is that Fagan had Lester at 5. Can’t see Scott having Lester in the votes considering Jez had 17 disposals and kicked 2.3

Seems like Fagan looked after his own like the GWS game.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Coaches votes from Saturday

8 different players received votes, meaning the coaches only agreed on 2 players in the votes - L. Neale, and Zac Bailey or Ollie Henry

Also means that one thought Lester was BOG and the other didn't have the votes

View attachment 2119256View attachment 2119256

It says a bit that we were some straighter kicking from a GF with O Henry and Miers our only two in the votes.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Where does this game rank (if at all) in your most crushing losses list?

Big daddy is of course 2008 GF and 2020 wasn't a blast. But for me this is up there. I feel we let a great opportunity go by

Good question and it’s a hard one to rank.
Going into this years finals series I wasn’t expecting to win a final because I didn’t think we were that good.

But after what we did to port, it gave me massive hope that we had peaked at the right time and we could win it all even though we weren’t that good in the H & A.

Up until the final 2 minutes of Saturday night I still believed we would win.
So right now it’s a shocking loss and it’s painful. I think it’s a wasted opportunity because we could have and should have won.

But at the same time we weren’t very good this year and we went further than what I thought.

I think it will sting the younger players a hell of a lot. And they will be better for it.

Nothing compares to 2008 though and for me that loss gets worse every year.

2020 wasn’t great but I barely feel any pain at all from that one compared to other finals.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Two day hangover just starting to disappear. I ignored the Prime Directive - never mix beers and spirits!!! Man that anejo tequila goes down so goddamn smooth though. It's like liquid smoke!

Anyway, Lions just wanted the win more. They are us in 2009. Neither hell nor high water will stop them and I think they'll press up and run like mad to win the Granny this year. I know I said 'Go Sydney' in the immediate aftermath of the game but I like a good redemption story, and Brissy's story is fresher.

So go Brissy!

 

[Gavin Excell]

Good question and it’s a hard one to rank.
Going into this years finals series I wasn’t expecting to win a final because I didn’t think we were that good.

But after what we did to port, it gave me massive hope that we had peaked at the right time and we could win it all even though we weren’t that good in the H & A.

Up until the final 2 minutes of Saturday night I still believed we would win.
So right now it’s a shocking loss and it’s painful. I think it’s a wasted opportunity because we could have and should have won.

But at the same time we weren’t very good this year and we went further than what I thought.

I think it will sting the younger players a hell of a lot. And they will be better for it.

Nothing compares to 2008 though and for me that loss gets worse every year.

2020 wasn’t great but I barely feel any pain at all from that one compared to other finals.

Share very similar sentiments expressed here

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Good question and it’s a hard one to rank.
Going into this years finals series I wasn’t expecting to win a final because I didn’t think we were that good.

But after what we did to port, it gave me massive hope that we had peaked at the right time and we could win it all even though we weren’t that good in the H & A.

Up until the final 2 minutes of Saturday night I still believed we would win.
So right now it’s a shocking loss and it’s painful. I think it’s a wasted opportunity because we could have and should have won.

But at the same time we weren’t very good this year and we went further than what I thought.

I think it will sting the younger players a hell of a lot. And they will be better for it.

Nothing compares to 2008 though and for me that loss gets worse every year.

2020 wasn’t great but I barely feel any pain at all from that one compared to other finals.

I always think of that as the 'Covid Cup'. Maybe it is just sour grapes on my part, but it seems like a preseason Wizard/NAB night final trophy in comparison.