The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Norm De Guerre]

Does anyone was thoughts on the likelihood of AUKUS subs succeeding now? Obviously we are along way down the list of getting the Virginia Class (intermediary) sub, even more so now under an isolationist partner. But there is a conceivable chance this whole Nuclear Sub bipartisan plan is thrown in the bin with the entire world order being scrambled by Trump. At least for the next 4 years.

Theres way too much national treasure to skim off the table on the table for it not to.

We'll see Trump do what he does, he'll use the same playbook on us as he did with NATO countries and ramp up the pressure for us to i crease defence spending. Most of which of course will flow back to the likes of Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman.

I dont see anything changing in regards to the SSN program as the plan is for us to spend lots of money on helping increase build capacity in US Sub Yards. The transfer 3-5 existing or new build US subs to the RAN and for the UK and Aus part of AUKUS to develop a joint follow on SSN. This of course will be with the help of the aforementioned US defence contractors.

The other plank of the whole alliance that gets much less talk is the partners basing submarines out of Sterling in W.A and well out of reach of Chinese attacks on the places that the USN would have subs like Guam. For all of his faux anti-establishment rhetoric Trump is a capitalist to his very core and and as soon as somebody explains that a significant part of the $300 billion that we have budgeted to cover the 40+ life cycle of the submarine program will flow back to the US he will get behind an alliance. That he wouldn't otherwise give a **** about.

The U.S for all intents and purposes will continue to draw down its forces in Europe.

But I don't think for a second that Trump is the Dove of Peace that his dumber supporters would have us believe. Or that the US is going to stop the strategic pivot into the pacific that they have been undertaking since the Obama administration. Trump didnt set off a trade war with China in his first term or make tariffs the central plank of his foreign policy this election because he wanted to bring cheap T-shirts back to the US. Other than some high profile tinkering around the edges that Neoliberal boat has sailed or driven across the border into Mexico.

He'll continue to escalate U.S foreign policy objectives trying to contain Chinas influence, force projection beyond its territorial waters and its ability to trade, as it challenges U.S economic, strategic hegemony and the dominance of the USD as the worlds trading currency.

Only a dolt would believe that now that he has stamped his dominance on US politics that he won't turn his focus towards trying to do the same with China.

Trump may project an America first isolationism, but like most things he does it's an expedient facade. The reality is that the forces that have always driven American capitalism and foreign policy are the same forces that drive Trump. Power and money. Its why the US is intent on stopping that power shifting any further into Chinas orbit.

I dont think that we see a direct conflict between the US and China during Trump's term. But we will see a continuation of policy that makes it all but inevitable in the 20 years or so.

This is why we are willing to spend $300 billion on developing a local submarine manufacturing and sustainment industry.

Whether we can actually pull it off. Or we just end up buy 8 Virginia's or UK built follow on SSN of the shelf.

Remains to be seen.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Which is worse, culpable homicide or rape?

Robert Kennedy was at Monroe’s home in the afternoon on the day she died. In the days leading up to her death, according to Summers’ reporting, Monroe told a friend that she was “very much in love and was going to marry Bobby Kennedy.”

So many allegations, pot, kettle. When you weaponise the justice system anyone can be charged.

In other news, the FBI head has quit. Why?

You quoted Clinton’s infidelity alongside Trump’s rape accusations.

Digging up unproven rumours from the 1960s, doesn’t excuse Trumps behaviour 60+ years later, if anything it makes it worse that he behaved like that in the 21st Century.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

What I can't get my head around and never will is how people in the US saw what happened between 2017 to 2020, January 6, the debunked voter fraud conspiracy and the insane ramblings ever since and thought 'Give that guy the keys, I want four more years'.

America made its bed so now they can lie in it. The racists and bigots, the grifters, the uneducated hicks who see him as some sort of working class hero, the incels, the perpetually aggrieved who blame everyone else for their problems. They think Trump cares about them yet we all know he couldn't give a ****

The most profound statement I heard about the result was 'It was a terrible night for everyone who voted against him and everyone who voted for him, they just don't realise it yet.'

They have four years. The damage will take a lot longer to fix and one day they might learn not to f*** around and guard their democracy and not play stupid games when it comes to fascists.

I think you are being generous to the Democrats, they have aligned themselves with corporations, Zionism, and have no progressive policies that appeals to the poor, and disadvantaged who live in the Trump heartland of rural America.

Trump’s base feels forgotten, feels that they are not getting a fair deal, and Trump uses the politics of scapegoating to blame migrants, China, all those “others” who are taking away what should be theirs.

Simplistic problems with simplistic solutions that the base can understand. Climate change, Palestine, United Nations, are not their concerns, for the average American, the world is just America.

 

[Bulldog rick]

Like to contribute to this thread and say " it's the end of the world as we know it " (and I feel fine).

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Genuine question. If it was someone else with the exact same policies, but someone who wasn't offensive when they talk, wasn't a convicted felon, and was a complete cleanskin socially, would there be this same uproar?
Is it specifically his policies that are people's biggest issue, or is it Trump as a person or a mixture of both?

You pose a good question, I think these policies are not really new, we have seen them come and go, but Trump’s naked quest for power and control has never been so blatant, not even cloaked in any public concern or urge to do public good.

The republican’s tried to kick Clinton out for his brief sexual exchange with an intern, yet rape is ok for Trump, and his affair with Stormy Daniels which he tried to cover up. The fact he is a convicted criminal, yet anyone who spends time in an American prison forfeits their right to vote, illustrates American madness.

Trump’s complete disregard for political institutions and the American constitution, calling out the mob to attack capital hill, bending judge’s to favour him, threatening to wipe out any public servant who is not loyal to him, surrounding himself with conspiracy theorists, is reminiscent of dictators from our past. Calling any criticism of him fake news, does away with the fourth estate. These are all important levers and pedals of democracy, without them, you have a dictatorship.

That is what is different, that is what is frightening.

 

[Mutt]

Two posters have received permanent thread bans for posting personal attacks/offensive comments about other individuals on here. Before anyone complains about any alleged bias - one was a Harris supporter and one a Trump supporter.

Keep your posting on topic and do not include personal attacks on other contributors to the thread.

 

[Gold Coast Doggies]

Poverty rate in Texas is higher than both California and New York and Florida is higher than California and one spot behind New York. Imagine thinking that making homelessness illegal is some mega mind solution to the problem and comparing it to curing cancer.

Reading a stat today, USA have roughly 60 million people living below the poverty line, disgraceful for a country which has so much wealth , both political parties need to do better

 

[Next Waiting]

What I can't get my head around and never will is how people in the US saw what happened between 2017 to 2020, January 6, the debunked voter fraud conspiracy and the insane ramblings ever since and thought 'Give that guy the keys, I want four more years'.

America made its bed so now they can lie in it. The racists and bigots, the grifters, the uneducated hicks who see him as some sort of working class hero, the incels, the perpetually aggrieved who blame everyone else for their problems. They think Trump cares about them yet we all know he couldn't give a ****

The most profound statement I heard about the result was 'It was a terrible night for everyone who voted against him and everyone who voted for him, they just don't realise it yet.'

They have four years. The damage will take a lot longer to fix and one day they might learn not to f*** around and guard their democracy and not play stupid games when it comes to fascists.

Trump is a demagogue in my view and people like Bannon and now Musk have been the right ally for him at the right time.

The Democrats have been as bad as the Republicans for just as long.

I get the sense that the electorate has felt disenfranchised for some time, so a huge number of them just opt out of engaging and voting.

And let's be honest, until women and then black people were all allowed to vote how truly universal has their suffrage been. They've had Deocracy for maybe 50 years.

Unfortunately, the price of it is eternal vigilance and they've dropped the ball here. Whilst many may have felt disenfranchised with the 2 party options that are similarly sponsored, I fear large swathes of currently eligible are on the precipice of having that eligibility revoked....one way or another.

My reading of this whole saga has definitely tended to the dystopian, and I'm aware of it, but regardless, my thoughts are that much of the electorate will transition from feeling disenfranchised because they don't believe either party represents them to actually being disenfranchised in practise.

It's just the vibe. I wish it were not so.

 

[BEaston]

They are saying the charges were only brought by Democrats to prevent Trump from running for President. Most were misdemeanours punishable by fines, upgraded by various means to felonies punishable by jail time.

Along the way they gagged him and attempted to bankrupt him.

Guess what, didn’t work.

So are you saying crimes should only be prosecuted based on who "brings them to the court"? Or that anyone running for president should be exempt from being tried for any crimes they may have committed?

I wasn't aware you could just change an action from a misdemeanor to a felony. It's either one or the other, by he letter of the law isn't it? Which charges were changed?

 

[Next Waiting]

Riddle me this. If you are demagogue, and after running a successful re-election campaign, you find in yourself in the position of having two sympathetic houses and a sympathetic Supreme Court that's given you immunity, how likely are you to want to give that up?

If you accept the premise that he's a demagogue, he's not gonna want to give up that power.

Under such a scenario, freedom of the press is stake. Control of the press OK, but freedom? Dissenting views are already characterised as fake news. Conceivably dissenting views/fake news may gradually be reclassified as anti American or a threat to the state. Political opposition the same.
And if you are indeed a demagogue, why would you tolerate a situation where ordinary citizens could end your reign or that of your preferred successor through the ballot box. It's untenable.

Couldn't say how it might be done exactly. But where there's a will there's a way. The Patriot Act is there and I dare say other emergency powers could be enacted to counter the various and imminent grave threats to national security that are sure to be manufactured.

 

[BrisDog]

.

Theres way too much national treasure to skim off the table on the table for it not to.

We'll see Trump do what he does, he'll use the same playbook on us as he did with NATO countries and ramp up the pressure for us to i crease defence spending. Most of which of course will flow back to the likes of Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman.

I dont see anything changing in regards to the SSN program as the plan is for us to spend lots of money on helping increase build capacity in US Sub Yards. The transfer 3-5 existing or new build US subs to the RAN and for the UK and Aus part of AUKUS to develop a joint follow on SSN. This of course will be with the help of the aforementioned US defence contractors.

The other plank of the whole alliance that gets much less talk is the partners basing submarines out of Sterling in W.A and well out of reach of Chinese attacks on the places that the USN would have subs like Guam. For all of his faux anti-establishment rhetoric Trump is a capitalist to his very core and and as soon as somebody explains that a significant part of the $300 billion that we have budgeted to cover the 40+ life cycle of the submarine program will flow back to the US he will get behind an alliance. That he wouldn't otherwise give a **** about.

The U.S for all intents and purposes will continue to draw down its forces in Europe.

But I don't think for a second that Trump is the Dove of Peace that his dumber supporters would have us believe. Or that the US is going to stop the strategic pivot into the pacific that they have been undertaking since the Obama administration. Trump didnt set off a trade war with China in his first term or make tariffs the central plank of his foreign policy this election because he wanted to bring cheap T-shirts back to the US. Other than some high profile tinkering around the edges that Neoliberal boat has sailed or driven across the border into Mexico.

He'll continue to escalate U.S foreign policy objectives trying to contain Chinas influence, force projection beyond its territorial waters and its ability to trade, as it challenges U.S economic, strategic hegemony and the dominance of the USD as the worlds trading currency.

Only a dolt would believe that now that he has stamped his dominance on US politics that he won't turn his focus towards trying to do the same with China.

Trump may project an America first isolationism, but like most things he does it's an expedient facade. The reality is that the forces that have always driven American capitalism and foreign policy are the same forces that drive Trump. Power and money. Its why the US is intent on stopping that power shifting any further into Chinas orbit.

I dont think that we see a direct conflict between the US and China during Trump's term. But we will see a continuation of policy that makes it all but inevitable in the 20 years or so.

This is why we are willing to spend $300 billion on developing a local submarine manufacturing and sustainment industry.

Whether we can actually pull it off. Or we just end up buy 8 Virginia's or UK built follow on SSN of the shelf.

Remains to be seen.

Excellent analysis Norm, I enjoyed that.

I’m sure Pugz89 and Yebach got plenty from that as well.

 

[4Seasons]

The smug, toxic, circle jerk, nasty comments on here about Trump being nasty were interesting, but some of the freaks melting down on some of the YouTube compilations is straight up hilarious.

 

[4Seasons]

The fat campaigner is a fair chance of dying in the next 2-3 years boys, chins up.

Wow...wishing death on a foreigner.
Classy stuff...but but but...Trump is a bad person

 

[_Cerberus_]

The smug, toxic, circle jerk, nasty comments on here about Trump being nasty were interesting, but some of the freaks melting down on some of the YouTube compilations is straight up hilarious.

Do you call out the same type of comments from your own/right winger base? Or is that all considered good nature/just humor? Both sides are guilty of crap comments, but for every poor comment from the left, the right have 100s of their own. Jump on that cesspool of s**t called twitter. Plenty of comments advocating physical and sexual abuse of women. Saying they want to make some minors their slaves. Advocating murder and so on. In large from many key members of the MAGA movement as well. Some that shockingly might even land key roles on Trumps administration.

Funny thing is, your kind go all up in arms about Trump being called a Nazi. But say nothing when he mocks disabled people, laughed off the attack on Pelosis husband. Or am silent on the many posts on X advocating the physical and sexual abuse of women which I posted on the main threads about US politics. Even when directly quoted, the main Trump loving posters don't say a word about any of it. Avoid it like a plague.

The right has spent countless times the last few years, since the MAGA movement began. With its fake culture war, against people of color, gay people, trans people, or anyone named public enemy number one. To try and pin all of the worlds problems on them. Many of those have been sent death threats via comments and messages, or told they are disgusting beings, and should kill themselves.

But then right wingers are happy to cry victim soon as one thing mean goes back the other way. There is no place for that kind of talk from anybody, regardless of political leaning. But I sure don't want to hear right wingers who make an art form of it, cry unless they grow up and stop attacking people for simply existing.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Nick Fuentes everyone. One of MAGAs favorites.

 

[4Seasons]

Do you call out the same type of comments from your own/right winger base? Or is that all considered good nature/just humor? Both sides are guilty of crap comments, but for every poor comment from the left, the right have 100s of their own. Jump on that cesspool of s**t called twitter. Plenty of comments advocating physical and sexual abuse of women. Saying they want to make some minors their slaves. Advocating murder and so on. In large from many key members of the MAGA movement as well. Some that shockingly might even land key roles on Trumps administration.

Funny thing is, your kind go all up in arms about Trump being called a Nazi. But say nothing when he mocks disabled people, laughed off the attack on Pelosis husband. Or am silent on the many posts on X advocating the physical and sexual abuse of women which I posted on the main threads about US politics. Even when directly quoted, the main Trump loving posters don't say a word about any of it. Avoid it like a plague.

The right has spent countless times the last few years, since the MAGA movement began. With its fake culture war, against people of color, gay people, trans people, or anyone named public enemy number one. To try and pin all of the worlds problems on them. Many of those have been sent death threats via comments and messages, or told they are disgusting beings, and should kill themselves.

But then right wingers are happy to cry victim soon as one thing mean goes back the other way. There is no place for that kind of talk from anybody, regardless of political leaning. But I sure don't want to hear right wingers who make an art form of it, cry unless they grow up and stop attacking people for simply existing.

The right aren't perfect, but you're just making up stories lol.
Long live the lefties supporting freaks.

You lost. The majority rule.

Cope.

 

[_Cerberus_]

 

[_Cerberus_]

 

[_Cerberus_]

Getting back on topic. It is a really disturbing that some of the people above that I posted, could land a decent role on the new administration that influences policy. It is interesting how Americans don't seem to hold their representatives on all levels to higher standards compared to most of the world. In fact, it seems like Americans don't care about character at all. I wonder if the Republican Party will ever go back to its traditional and grand conservative roots, or whether it has been lost for good?

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

The right aren't perfect, but you're just making up stories lol.
Long live the lefties supporting freaks.

You lost. The majority rule.

Cope.

So it’s ok that thousands of Black Americans received tweets telling them there cotton picking job is waiting, including children in middle school?

I think there is a lot of losers, the environment, women…actually it’s quicker to name the winners, Billionaires, racists, Murdoch and Misogynists.

 

[Royale]

Getting back on topic. It is a really disturbing that some of the people above that I posted, could land a decent role on the new administration that influences policy. It is interesting how Americans don't seem to hold their representatives on all levels to higher standards compared to most of the world. In fact, it seems like Americans don't care about character at all. I wonder if the Republican Party will ever go back to its traditional and grand conservative roots, or whether it has been lost for good?

The fearmongering is intense though. Instead of could and might, how about you wait until he actually puts people in place.

 

[Mutt]

There are links on the main board to get help.
The mods have openly said they have thread banned people from both sides.
Get help and God Bless.

Crossing the line here - stop being a smart-arse and baiting or you'll be number 3.

 

[BEaston]

The smug, toxic, circle jerk, nasty comments on here about Trump being nasty were interesting, but some of the freaks melting down on some of the YouTube compilations is straight up hilarious.

What a world we live in, where critiquing misogynistic, convicted felon con men grifters is considered toxic and nasty.

Topsy turvy world.

But then right wingers are happy to cry victim soon as one thing mean goes back the other way. There is no place for that kind of talk from anybody, regardless of political leaning. But I sure don't want to hear right wingers who make an art form of it, cry unless they grow up and stop attacking people for simply existing.

They really are the true snowflakes.

 

[Pugz89]

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Absolutely disgusting. The crazies will always be crazy, but the conservative movement isn't driven by those kinds of people. They are the fringe and should absolutely be called out. They are horrible people and taint the impression many have of the conservative movement. Just yuck.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Don’t engage Charlie.
The old “ we won , you lost” getting wheeled out was so predictable and childish.

Supporting a character like Trump ,no matter what your politics, tells me more about them .
It’s sad.

I don’t usually. Was just interested to know as he posts like my 17yr old nephew.

Lives with his parents and gorges on Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan and right wing MAGA types on socials.