List Mgmt. Contracts/Trade/Draft Thread - 2025 Edition

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• Player contract status
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• Provisional 2025 Draft order

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  - Sandy Brock

SSP signing dates

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• Monday, November 25, 2024 – Thursday, December 19, 2024
• Monday, January 13, 2025 – Friday, February 21, 2025

Players out of Contract (16) - 2025

Spoiler

• Tim Kelly (26/7/94) - Signed a 6 year contract (2020-25) in October 2019
• Dom Sheed (10/4/95) - Signed a 4 year extension (2022-25) in April 2021*
• Oscar Allen (19/3/99) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in May 2021
• Campbell Chesser (27/4/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in May 2022
• Tom Cole (28/5/97) - Signed a 3 year extension (2023-25) in May 2022
• Rhett Bazzo (17/10/03) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) on an existing contract due to expire 2023 in September 2022
• Jayden Hunt (3/4/95) - Signed a 3 year contract (2023-25) in October 2022
• Callum Jamieson (31/7/00) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in March 2023
• Jeremy McGovern (15/4/92) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
• Jamie Cripps (23/4/92) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
• Jack Petruccelle (12/4/99) - Signed a 2 year extension (2024-25) in August 2023
• (R) Jack Hutchinson (10/11/01) - Automatic 18 month contract (2024-25) when drafted in May 2024
• (R) Tyrell Dewar (27/3/04) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in June 2024
• (R) Loch Rawlinson (1/6/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
• (R-B) Coen Livingstone (25/5/05) - Signed a 1 year extension (2025) in September 2024
• (R-B) Malakai Champion (17/5/06) - Automatic 1 year contract (2025) when added as a Cat B Rookie in November 2024

 

[KBLT]

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I don't think that it's so much underselling as being nervous on a couple of levels.

I think most believe he is premium, but how premium? And how much will we have to give up to get him?

Is he 2 x Brownlow medal winner Lachie Neale premium? Bont premium? Better than Tim Kelly premium?
Where on the premium scale he fits tends to influence what people are willing to pay.

Do we pay TK trade? I think the general consensus is that we got something good but paid too much for it. Something that (Wellingham, Chick, Baker etc.) we have a history of doing.
Do we use the Neale trade as a guide?
Do we use Bolton as guide. Given that virtually everyone rates Warner higher than Bolton this SHOULD be the low end marker and Neale SHOULD be the high water mark.

Do I think Warner is premium? Yes.
Do I want him? Yes.
Would I pay 2 x top 10 2025 picks for him? No.
Would I want to trade out of the 2025 1st round for anyone? No.

So I think he's good but am nervous at what we might be willing to pay.

Note - I think that Freo way overpaid for Bolton and this is unbalancing expectations in the selling side of perceived value.

Premium is premium, he is in the top 10 midfielders in the game and arguably top 5.
The odds on top 10 picks being as good or better than him are very low.
I can’t talk for others but when I watch these premium midfielders I sit there and say we need one of these badly just as all sides do.
I would think the club will do what they need to do to get the player to the club.
Now will he be as effective running around with Harley and some other young guys initially? Maybe not but he is young enough to grow with those guys and that’s the attraction.
The thing most forget is that Kelly cane here and went from playing with guns at Geelong to average players at West Coast. Geelong players were always fit and hungry and West Coast players were not.
Really was apples and oranges and Kelly has been a solid player in a very poor footy environment.
Now if course we don’t want to overpay at all but if we are prepared to give Oscar 5-7 years then giving up a couple of draft picks for a premium mid like Warner is not the end of the world.
And if we can land Warner it will go a long way to keeping Harley here for a few more years.
That’s how I see it anyway.

 

[WCE777]

Needs to play with the ball coming to him, rather than having to make decisions about where to run. HBF rotating with Ginbey and Allan having bursts through the midfield would be ideal. Chess looked his best running out of D50 with ball in hand and still think he can have an impact as a burst inside mid. All three have the physique to be absolute units. Ginbey is already.

Would like to think we’ll draft some elite kicking outside leaning mids this year but really think we’ll continue to prioritise ball winning contested players and work on the philosophy of quantity of F50 entries rather than quality. Fast ball entry to 1v1s with our glut of KPFs then manic defensive pressure to lock it in.

ok, can see that happening, like your analysis, he definitely has the speed for a rebounding HBF.
Nice to see some players being tried in different roles/positions with the new coaching group.
Would like to see the same with elite kicking/speed mids, feel WC have heaps of young players that are big and strong projected to play midfield eventually.
Rodriguez/HH/Lindsay seem to be those types?

 

[THE A5]

I wouldn't say he was brilliant though. He had a couple of good years where he won a fair bit of ball but outside of that he was a solid B grader.

He was developing each year. He was 22 when he won the bnf, had a good year in 2013. Then had that ankle injury in 2014 and he was never the same after.

Bit of a sliding doors. Don’t think we would have got Redden had he stayed fit too

 

[briztoon]

My comment was based on his value alone, not joining any pile on mate.

I think he's worth a little bit more than what you're saying. (knee dependant of course.)

Yep, realised and appreciated that, re: not joining the pile on.

The last, I don't know how many pages now, 23 out of 24, has a had a discussion about Oscar Allen's possible knee issue, and if WC should "cash in" on Allen's free agency status at the end of next season. And there's been a concurrent discussion, that's often become intertwined with the possible knee issue, about how many years Allen should be offered in his next contract, and whether to "cash in" on Allen if he gets a better deal elsewhere.

My whole view of Allen's value has been very much based on the above two discussions.


If his knee is right or manageable, much of the discussion about Allen's value should also factor in his potential club of choice, should he wish to move on.

I don't believe he's likely to want to move to one of the bottom clubs. I'd rule out Melbourne and Essendon for (different) culture reasons, and St Kilda for playing style.

Carlton and Bulldogs don't need another key forward.

That leaves Sydney, Port, Geelong, GWS, Lions, Hawks, Collingwood or Fremantle as more likely destinations.

None of Carlton, Collingwood or Port currently hold a 2025 first round pick.


The one club that probably has the most collateral is Sydney in the form of Chad Warner.

So who is worth more Warner or Allen?

And which team has to chuck in "extras" to get the deal done.

 

[THE A5]

Bo’s kicking should worry everyone. He won’t be a distributing HBF but he will break lines running out of defence and hopefully take the first option. Outstanding athlete and attitude, much easier to teach kicking than either of those.

While you’re correct, I struggle to recall any player improving their general kicking once drafted. Especially if it’s as Bog average as Allans.

 

[Rowan18]

Yep, realised and appreciated that, re: not joining the pile on.

The last, I don't know how many pages now, 23 out of 24, has a had a discussion about Oscar Allen's possible knee issue, and if WC should "cash in" on Allen's free agency status at the end of next season. And there's been a concurrent discussion, that's often become intertwined with the possible knee issue, about how many years Allen should be offered in his next contract, and whether to "cash in" on Allen if he gets a better deal elsewhere.

My whole view of Allen's value has been very much based on the above two discussions.


If his knee is right or manageable, much of the discussion about Allen's value should also factor in his potential club of choice, should he wish to move on.

I don't believe he's likely to want to move to one of the bottom clubs. I'd rule out Melbourne and Essendon for (different) culture reasons, and St Kilda for playing style.

Carlton and Bulldogs don't need another key forward.

That leaves Sydney, Port, Geelong, GWS, Lions, Hawks, Collingwood or Fremantle as more likely destinations.

None of Carlton, Collingwood or Port currently hold a 2025 first round pick.


The one club that probably has the most collateral is Sydney in the form of Chad Warner.

So who is worth more Warner or Allen?

And which team has to chuck in "extras" to get the deal done.

Sydney would be most likely and a straight swap for Warner would make sense.

However, I don't want to trade a KPF in their prime and have to wait at 4 more seasons for a replacement to develop (and that's assuming the young guys on the list get to his level).

Keep Allen
Trade 2 R1s for Warner (one from 2025 and one from 2026)
Bring Starevich in as FA
Draft someone with our remaining R1
Bring in the FS/NGA kids if they're good enough

That would be a huge offseason and the club would be primed to start rising up the ladder from 2026.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I don't think Brizkent is far off the mark TBH.

It's definitely not unheard of that clubs walk away if they have to trade for Allen, but as demonstrated with Barrass recently, if a team thinks it's in the window and X player could be the missing piece, they'll pay up. That said, if the option is there to obtain a player of his calibre via FA then that's clearly going be the preferred method.

Could whittle the potential suitors down from say, 6 to 2 though, for example.



FA compo of pick 3 wouldn't be awful. Split that for 2 picks inside the top 12 and it'd feel even nicer IMO. A lot of our tactic around Allens contract is going to depend on how A.Reid and Shanahan are developing.

 

[Lazzas]

If a club offers Oscar a contract worth band 1 compensation and you match, not a chance any club would then trade for Oscar. Every club in the competition would walk away.

It's about time the mods banned you from the board. Troll

 

[stallon]

Even if Jack Williams comes on more and shows he can be a threat as a forward, that could be enough to move on Oscar.
Give JWilliams a role similar to what Daniher did at Brisbane, as the FF/back up ruck, then Waterman and whichever of Reid/Shanahan float around doing whatever they want, similar to what Morris and Hipwood did at Brisbane this year.

If we go with Shanahan then we have a very quick/athletic forward line for 25% of the game when JWilliams is in the ruck, any 4 of Dewar/Owies/Champion/Brockman/Long/Gross or someone else entirely running around doing being dangerous.
Not saying we should copy Brisbane but if those small forwards came good we could have a very similar forward line to what brisbane had this year.

Things would really have to go right but I think that could be something to look at anyway, 10 months before a decision has to be made anyway

 

[We_The_West]

Sydney would be most likely and a straight swap for Warner would make sense.

However, I don't want to trade a KPF in their prime and have to wait at 4 more seasons for a replacement to develop (and that's assuming the young guys on the list get to his level).

Keep Allen
Trade 2 R1s for Warner (one from 2025 and one from 2026)
Bring Starevich in as FA
Draft someone with our remaining R1
Bring in the FS/NGA kids if they're good enough

That would be a huge offseason and the club would be primed to start rising up the ladder from 2026.

You're spot on! The above should be the off season goal.

Combined with Harley's signature this year and it would be looking like serious progress.

I also really rate Starcevich and believe he is a lot more than a lockdown defender. Definitely has midfield attributes but isn't getting a look in at the lions in that regard.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Even if Jack Williams comes on more and shows he can be a threat as a forward, that could be enough to move on Oscar.
Give JWilliams a role similar to what Daniher did at Brisbane, as the FF/back up ruck, then Waterman and whichever of Reid/Shanahan float around doing whatever they want, similar to what Morris and Hipwood did at Brisbane this year.

If we go with Shanahan then we have a very quick/athletic forward line for 25% of the game when JWilliams is in the ruck, any 4 of Dewar/Owies/Champion/Brockman/Long/Gross or someone else entirely running around doing being dangerous.
Not saying we should copy Brisbane but if those small forwards came good we could have a very similar forward line to what brisbane had this year.

Things would really have to go right but I think that could be something to look at anyway, 10 months before a decision has to be made anyway

Yeah, you're not wrong.

Whilst i'm happy or Oscar to leave regardless, because i don't want us bent over for a long contract by anyone let alone a player injured as often as Allen, it'd be silly to not acknowledge just how far in front of Jack Williams he currently is.


I'm a big Williams fan, like most, but there's a big difference between being your teams #1-1 2 forward target, taking a quality defender and still popping up to kick 3-5 goals like Allen can, and cruising around as backup ruck/3rd tall and picking up the occasional goal.


J.Will would need a decent 25+ goal season in 2025 for the list management to think he'd be ready to fill that void enough o let Allen walk.

He kicked 16 goals from 18 games in 2024 for a spud team behind Allen and Waterman, so it's well and truly possible.

Allen kicked 20 goals from 11 games.

 

[mattyc75]

Yeah, you're not wrong.

Whilst i'm happy or Oscar to leave regardless, because i don't want us bent over for a long contract by anyone let alone a player injured as often as Allen, it'd be silly to not acknowledge just how far in front of Jack Williams he currently is.


I'm a big Williams fan, like most, but there's a big difference between being your teams #1-1 2 forward target, taking a quality defender and still popping up to kick 3-5 goals like Allen can, and cruising around as backup ruck/3rd tall and picking up the occasional goal.


J.Will would need a decent 25+ goal season in 2025 for the list management to think he'd be ready to fill that void enough o let Allen walk.

He kicked 16 goals from 18 games in 2024 for a spud team behind Allen and Waterman, so it's well and truly possible.

Allen kicked 20 goals from 11 games.

Unless oscar is injured then i can't see JWill getting enough opportunities to show he'd be capable of being a full time forward. And if the powers that be thought he was then possibly they wouldn't have drafted shanahan, especially with reid there too.
But surely one of thems got to come good!!

Sent from my SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Obeanie1]

Do we even need Starcevich. Like he’s a decent player but I feel like we can fill his role with players we already have.

If he wasn’t a West Aussie we wouldn’t even be talking about him. I’d pass

If he wasnt a free agent the club wouldnt be either.

Just an opportunity to improve our list without using high picks.

Oh, and even out the rorts the Lions are benefiting from. So its a way to improve our list and weakening a list at the top as salary cap is tighter.

 

[Obeanie1]

Unless oscar is injured then i can't see JWill getting enough opportunities to show he'd be capable of being a full time forward. And if the powers that be thought he was then possibly they wouldn't have drafted shanahan, especially with reid there too.
But surely one of thems got to come good!!

Sent from my SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Shanahan will start as a CHB and become a swing man IMO.

J Williams is our #1 forward / ruck and gets picked round 1 if fit. He will get plenty of opportunities.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I don't think J.Williams is even close to being mobile enough to be a teams #1 forward. More agile defenders would have a field day with him.

Like the lad, but to me he looks exactly like what he is, A backup ruck/fwd target. Not a full forward of anything. The good news is, he was one of the youngest in his draft class and has loads of upside and development left.

Shanahan looks the natural FF for mine, more natural than both A.Reid and Williams does.

 

[We_The_West]

I don't think J.Williams is even close to being mobile enough to be a teams #1 forward. More agile defenders would have a field day with him.

Like the lad, but to me he looks exactly like what he is, A backup ruck/fwd target. Not a full forward of anything. The good news is, he was one of the youngest in his draft class and has loads of upside and development left.

Shanahan looks the natural FF for mine, more natural than both A.Reid and Williams does.

He posted some great numbers in his draft year playing full forward for East Freo. 2nd in the comp for Goals and Marks.

High average disposals and tackles and shots on goal (albeit worse accuracy than Amiss and Van Rooyen)



I think he's still developing but I can see him having more upside than both Amiss and Van Rooyen.

Agree Shanahan looks a genuine forward, more than Archer. Would love to see Archer developed into a KPD.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Wes Walley is a dangerous small/medium forward tied to the Eagles via their NGA program. In the U17 Futures game on grand final day Walley showed how dangerous he can be with his pace and movement inside the forward 50 creating numerous scoring opportunities, but his conversion prevented him from kicking a bag.

Found him!

 

[Obeanie1]

I don't think J.Williams is even close to being mobile enough to be a teams #1 forward. More agile defenders would have a field day with him.

Like the lad, but to me he looks exactly like what he is, A backup ruck/fwd target. Not a full forward of anything. The good news is, he was one of the youngest in his draft class and has loads of upside and development left.

Shanahan looks the natural FF for mine, more natural than both A.Reid and Williams does.

With Oscar and Waterman playing he isn't the #1 forward. And he isn't 3xpected to be the #1 forward.

He is the big brute close to 200cm forward / ruck to ensure the 3rd tall defender doesn't zone off and double team Oscar or Waterman.

 

[noobermensch]

Toby Whan Kenobi has arrived from a galaxy far far away to make a serious run at the first round of the 2025 AFL draft. A booming left foot kick and a solid frame that allows him to compete hard at the contest, Whan is part of a super exciting WA cohort for next season. Keep an eye out for the sandgropers at the 2025 National Champs.

 

[MrWoollie]

Premium is premium, he is in the top 10 midfielders in the game and arguably top 5.
The odds on top 10 picks being as good or better than him are very low.
I can’t talk for others but when I watch these premium midfielders I sit there and say we need one of these badly just as all sides do.
I would think the club will do what they need to do to get the player to the club.
Now will he be as effective running around with Harley and some other young guys initially? Maybe not but he is young enough to grow with those guys and that’s the attraction.
The thing most forget is that Kelly cane here and went from playing with guns at Geelong to average players at West Coast. Geelong players were always fit and hungry and West Coast players were not.
Really was apples and oranges and Kelly has been a solid player in a very poor footy environment.
Now if course we don’t want to overpay at all but if we are prepared to give Oscar 5-7 years then giving up a couple of draft picks for a premium mid like Warner is not the end of the world.
And if we can land Warner it will go a long way to keeping Harley here for a few more years.
That’s how I see it anyway.

I see your point but...

I think that given a choice of 1 x 24 year old who has completed 6 years in the system and realistically has maybe 6-7 more at the top level (150 games) vs. getting (for example) Rodriquez and Curtin; two likely very good players who could get 12-14 years each and 250 games each I know which choice I'd make.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I see your point but...

I think that given a choice of 1 x 24 year old who has completed 6 years in the system and realistically has maybe 6-7 more at the top level (150 games) vs. getting (for example) Rodriquez and Curtin; two likely very good players who could get 12-14 years each and 250 games each I know which choice I'd make.

What if one of Rodriguez and Curtin end up being Tstsas and DGB? With Warner you are de-risking your picks.

 

[Astro7]

While you’re correct, I struggle to recall any player improving their general kicking once drafted. Especially if it’s as Bog average as Allans.

Am curious, how do you improve someone's kicking ability? Surely there's coaches/drills in place? Is it just a lot of practise or a natural physical inability that can't be corrected?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Am curious, how do you improve someone's kicking ability? Surely there's coaches/drills in place? Is it just a lot of practise or a natural physical inability that can't be corrected?

Set shots would be improved with obsessive practice (ala Beckham or Jonny Wilkinson), around the ground kicks would be harder to practice in real life conditions.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Set shots would be improved with obsessive practice (ala Beckham or Jonny Wilkinson), around the ground kicks would be harder to practice in real life conditions.

Any physical act can be improved with training muscle memory, from shooting a basketball, hitting a golf ball etc., in a controlled environment (set shot at goal, free throws in basketball) but there is a limit based on physical skill and ability as to how good you can get.

The issue and breakdown of that muscle memory occurs when external factors such as fatigue, or movement, or opposition, is involved.