AFL Player #13: Nik Cox - Subbed out vs GCS

[Beerfish]

Contract Status: Out of contract 2024
My Boy Draft 2024: Pick 6, Rick Ross

 

[ghostdog]

Fine as far as he did a few things yes. Not so fine that he was also out of position a lot and he runs himself into the ground because he does not understand how to play the wing. With Reid he had limited touches but he did his number 1 role and that was defend. I have been a big fan of Cox. He can play but having a very very close look at him over the last 3 years he is at the stage where he has to decide how much he wants it and the coaches are at the stage where they need to play him at half back or half forward and not the wing where he has been at sea a lot of the time.

We can't play Reid, McKay, Ridley and Cox though; surely that's too tall. Martin's not short either. I would have thought a bench rotation would be needed if we want all of them in the same team, so I get the persistence in trying to develop Cox as a wing option, though it's clear it hasn't worked.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Can he potentially play the Harry Jones But With Better Marking role?

 

[ghostdog]

Can he potentially play the Harry Jones But With Better Marking role?

It would be an unpopular opinion, but I reckon ScrappyCoCo's suggestion of trying Ridley forward and leading up to the wing has merit.

 

[BrunoV]

Pick 8 on an 'intercept' half back. It's about as dumb as pick 1 on a back pocket.

Because Luke Darcy was carrying on like we've never seen a player about 200cm do cool athletic things it's distracted from the reality that Cox's traits don't lend themselves to unicorn play.

Does he have Fletcher's speed to play small? No evidence of that. Does he have the physical strength or power associated with the good intercept defenders? Obviously not.

He's a tall, painfully thin guy whose best position doesn't even capitalise on his biggest physical strength which is his long distance running power.

Keep trying to turn him into a wingman. He'll be lucky to be on a list as a half back. We don't need height from that 7th defender. We need the flexibility to play small. There is no sign Cox gives us that.

 

[quotemokc]

Pick 8 on an 'ntercept' half back. It's about as dumb as pick 1 on a back pocket.

Because Luke Darcy was carrying on like we've never seen a player about 200cm do cool athletic things it's distracted from the reality that Cox's traits don't lend themselves to unicorn play.

Does he has Fletcher's speed to play small? No evidence of that. Does he have the physical strength associated with the good intercept defenders? Obviously not.

He's tall, painfully thin guy who best position doesn't even capitalise on his biggest physical strength which is his long distance running power.

Keep trying to turn him into a wingman. He'll be lucky to be on a list as a half back. We don't need height from that 7th defender. We need the flexibility to play small. There is no sign Cox gives us that.

His draft position is no longer relevant.

He is on our list an we need him to play whatever position he can play well enough to be an AFL player be that half back or half forward, just leave him in one spot.

 

[BrunoV]

His draft position is no longer relevant.

He is on our list an we need him to play whatever position he can play well enough to be an AFL player be that half back or half forward, just leave him in one spot.

It's relevant if you want to know why we're not going anywhere. High picks spent on players who are not key components of the side.

Cox won't be a starting player on a flank, that was my main point. He doesn't bring the attributes we want.

 

[FootyGuru]

This is the thing, if he isn’t taking Ridleys, mckays, Reid/leverdes spots as a key back, he will be required to chop out on the wing. Especially because Scott has stated how flexible he wants players to be.

I personally don’t mind the idea of playing cox as a sub round 1 due to his flexibility. If Draper doesn’t get up play him as the second ruck, with goldy doing the heavy lifting.

 

[FootyGuru]

Pick 8 on an 'ntercept' half back. It's about as dumb as pick 1 on a back pocket.

Because Luke Darcy was carrying on like we've never seen a player about 200cm do cool athletic things it's distracted from the reality that Cox's traits don't lend themselves to unicorn play.

Does he have Fletcher's speed to play small? No evidence of that. Does he have the physical strength or power associated with the good intercept defenders? Obviously not.

He's tall, painfully thin guy whose best position doesn't even capitalise on his biggest physical strength which is his long distance running power.

Keep trying to turn him into a wingman. He'll be lucky to be on a list as a half back. We don't need height from that 7th defender. We need the flexibility to play small. There is no sign Cox gives us that.

Cox is an extremely talented and athletically gifted player. He is only 22, is 200cms and had numerous injuries and no pre seasons. It’s clear he has lost some confidence in himself and his body. Way too early to write off his ability to play wing/ defender or even call him a waste of a pick.

The guy wins time trials, can take hangers, one handed pick ups, quick hands inside, kicks 65 both feet all at 200cms. Cox is quickly becoming essendon fans whipping boy, but we need to relax a bit on someone so young.

Maybe with time he could become a ruckman, or even be our version of kouta, or a Gunston up forward or a prestigiacomo down back. that’s why you use a top end pick on someone with that higher ceiling. Or he will be a mark bolton where we never find him a position. Who knows? All I know it’s way to early to write him off

 

[BrunoV]

Cox is an extremely talented and athletically gifted player. He is only 22, is 200cms and had numerous injuries and no pre seasons. It’s clear he has lost some confidence in himself and his body. Way too early to write off his ability to play wing/ defender or even call him a waste of a pick.

The guy wins time trials, can take hangers, one handed pick ups, quick hands inside, kicks 65 both feet all at 200cms. Cox is quickly becoming essendon fans whipping boy, but we need to relax a bit on someone so young.

Maybe with time he could become a ruckman, or even be our version of kouta, or a Gunston up forward or a prestigiacomo down back. that’s why you use a top end pick on someone with that higher ceiling. Or he will be a mark bolton where we never find him a position. Who knows? All I know it’s way to early to write him off

A guy 4 years in with his centre of gravity close to his chest can become a ruckman, Kouta or even Prestigiacomo?

These examples are intriguing.

He has literally no substantive similarity to these players. Or does handling the ball in 1 hand make all players potentially Kouta? Kouta was a powerhouse. Something between Fyfe and Dangerfield. Presti was another powerhouse, explosively quick and strong as an ox. As for ruck, he lacks anything resembling the physicality to be a ruck.

I can understand the call for patience. I'd gladly not see Cox play AFL until after the bye if the time is used to drill playing as a wingman into him.

If I had a vision for him it would be Justin Westhoff playing wing like Andrew Embley.

But I have no idea what it is you think you see. It doesn't reflect anything in Cox, whatsoever, except maybe Gunston.

 

[bombadeer]

What I don't get is it's every coaching panel

Francis - dicked around
Langford - dicked around
Cox - dicked around

Martin being pushed back
Parish's years at HF
Knights' Lloyd on a wing thought bubble

It enforces the sentiment we've not recruited well to fill positions properly

Yeah I agree.

I’d suggest the recent level of experimentation is due to an unbalanced list build.

There is no quick fix, just got to keep turning over the list.

 

[FootyGuru]

A guy 4 years in with his centre of gravity close to his chest can become a ruckman, Kouta or even Prestigiacomo?

These examples are intriguing.

He has literally no substantive similarity to these players. Or does handling the ball in 1 hand make all players potentially Kouta? Kouta was a powerhouse. Something between Fyfe and Dangerfield. Presti was another powerhouse, explosively quick and strong as an ox. As for ruck, he lacks anything resembling the physicality to be a ruck.

I can understand the call for patience. I'd gladly not see Cox play AFL until after the bye if the time is used to drill playing as a wingman into him.

If I had a vision for him it would be Justin Westhoff playing wing like Andrew Embley.

But I have no idea what it is you think you see. It doesn't reflect anything in Cox, whatsoever, except maybe Gunston.

Cox 20m sprint (2.95) is 0.03 slower than Dangerfield, and we will know cox running ability over longer distances. Unsure what kouta or Prestis times were but doubt they were running much faster. Cox is also taller than all examples.

As a ruckman English and Grundy aren’t particularly physical but have been regarded as some of the best rucks in the league.
Without any previous pre seasons and a few injuries it’s far too early to write him off. He needs time and to put on size, but the main thing he actually needs is a set position and confidence.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I think Laverne will be a better player this season playing with two tall defenders and Ridley. I’d prefer Cox tried up forward rather than the wing. Anyway if they think he can play wing maybe he can play as a defensive flanker

 

[BrunoV]

Go have a look at Fyfe and Dangerfield when they were drafted, and then take into account that he’s also 200cms.
Cox is fast 2.95 20m sprint time is very fast for his height (Dangerfield only 0.03 faster). Not to mention the ability to run top speed for a long time.

He’s still very thin, and the lack of pre seasons and injuries hasn’t helped.

Cox 20m sprint is 0.03 slower than Dangerfield, and we will know cox running ability over longer distances. Unsure what kouta or Prestis times were but doubt they were running much faster. Cox is also taller than all examples.

As a ruckman English and Grundy aren’t particularly physical but have been regarded as some of the best rucks in the league.
Without any previous pre seasons and a few injuries it’s far too early to write him off. He needs time and to put on size, but the main thing he actually needs is a set position and confidence.

You know Bryan clocked 2.91 for 20m? What evidence of that do you see in his play?

He's actually a pretty good point of comparison. Bryan's got a much bigger build than Cox without the monster build of Visentini and is a naturally more powerful athlete. Bryan has hardly suffered an injury. He's 5 years in and still struggles with the physical side of ruck work.

Draper is at the other end of the scale. Came into the system already really well built and with an explosiveness to his play that has always been there and which he has built on.

You know what Danger looks like at 2m? It's Buddy and Buddy was a powerhouse athlete from day 1 (which manifested itself at AFL level in year 2).

You grafting attributes Cox has never had onto Cox's profile and on a rig of arms and legs that you'll not find one example of having developed into a monster.

If all of this forms part of your expectation for Cox you've already given up.

 

[FootyGuru]

You know Bryan clocked 2.91 for 20m? What evidence of that do you see in his play?

He's actually a pretty good point of comparison. Bryan's got a much bigger build than Cox without the monster build of Visentini and is a naturally more powerful athlete. Bryan has hardly suffered an injury. He's 5 years in and still struggles with the physical side of ruck work.

Draper is at the other end of the scale. Came into the system already really well built and with an explosiveness to his play that has always been there and which he has built on.

You know what Danger looks like at 2m? It's Buddy and Buddy was a powerhouse athlete from day 1 (which manifested itself at AFL level in year 2).

You grafting attributes Cox has never had onto Cox's profile and on a rig of arms and legs that you'll not find one example of having developed into a monster.

If all of this forms part of your expectation for Cox you've already given up.

don’t know why your bringing up Bryan but yes he’s more of the English and Grundy type. Bryan could be an afl ruckman with his attributes, but currently can’t take a mark. Is only 22 though.

I’ve seen cox breaking lines and bouncing the footy. I’ve seen him take high marks. I’ve seen him kick both feet 60 metres. Pretty interesting skills for someone 200cms if you ask me. Especially considering this will be his first pre season ever completed. But by all means write him off.

 

[jannissary]

don’t know why your bringing up Bryan but yes he’s more of the English and Grundy type. Bryan could be an afl ruckman with his attributes, but currently can’t take a mark. Is only 22 though.

I’ve seen cox breaking lines and bouncing the footy. I’ve seen him take high marks. I’ve seen him kick both feet 60 metres. Pretty interesting skills for someone 200cms if you ask me. Especially considering this will be his first pre season ever completed. But by all means write him off.

I think the comparison to Bryan is Bruno explaining that the transition from being a tall bloke to ruckman is challenging at the best of times. Let's face it - Cox is a string bean. Unless he's going up against the change ruckman (ala Silvagni) he'll get beaten 9/10 times because he has no physicality compared to most of the other ruckman.

 

[ant555]

We can't play Reid, McKay, Ridley and Cox though; surely that's too tall. Martin's not short either. I would have thought a bench rotation would be needed if we want all of them in the same team, so I get the persistence in trying to develop Cox as a wing option, though it's clear it hasn't worked.

Why cant we ? tall does not matter if you have mobility which Cox and Ridley have.

 

[FootyGuru]

Why cant we ? tall does not matter if you have mobility which Cox and Ridley have.

Exactly, we have played Heppell and Kelly in our backline before. But like I have said previously unless he’s playing on someone specifically he will probably need to chop out on the wing at stages

 

[citizen-erased]

Yeah I agree.

I’d suggest the recent level of experimentation is due to an unbalanced list build.

There is no quick fix, just got to keep turning over the list.

Blame the same thing
We put square players into round holes because we don't have the round players to slot in

Also think our development has been poor, as well as the standards we demand.

 

[BrunoV]

don’t know why your bringing up Bryan but yes he’s more of the English and Grundy type. Bryan could be an afl ruckman with his attributes, but currently can’t take a mark. Is only 22 though.

I’ve seen cox breaking lines and bouncing the footy. I’ve seen him take high marks. I’ve seen him kick both feet 60 metres. Pretty interesting skills for someone 200cms if you ask me. Especially considering this will be his first pre season ever completed. But by all means write him off.

Bryan is a point of reference.

You've mentioned Fyfe and Dangerfield. The link to those players is a 20m sprint time posted as an 18 year old.

I've given you an example of a more physically developed, better proportioned tall, who posted an even quicker 20m time who doesn't even have high level KPP physical ability, let alone what he needs for the ruck, a year further along than Cox and who has not had any injury trouble. He doesn't play as though the burst of speed is a feature.

This is a nature v nurture thing. You're basing a positive outlook on Cox assuming that he'll be nurtured into having the characteristics nature didn't give him.

I don't subscribe to the pessimism about his play on the wing. It's an area that doesn't require the level of 1v1 physicality of inside mid, KPP or the ruck. He has hardly played. He won't need to dramatically change his body shape or even his overall approach (as opposed to the tactical understanding of the role which he will need to develop). It maximises his running ability, allows his height to be a point of difference (which is what it is at this point, he wouldn't be a different player is he was 190cm). It's a neat trick to be able to turn on to either foot while stuck on one side of ground, too.

 

[JayJ20]

Pick 8 on an 'intercept' half back. It's about as dumb as pick 1 on a back pocket.

Because Luke Darcy was carrying on like we've never seen a player about 200cm do cool athletic things it's distracted from the reality that Cox's traits don't lend themselves to unicorn play.

Does he have Fletcher's speed to play small? No evidence of that. Does he have the physical strength or power associated with the good intercept defenders? Obviously not.

He's a tall, painfully thin guy whose best position doesn't even capitalise on his biggest physical strength which is his long distance running power.

Keep trying to turn him into a wingman. He'll be lucky to be on a list as a half back. We don't need height from that 7th defender. We need the flexibility to play small. There is no sign Cox gives us that.

I somewhat agree. On one hand, I think he cannot be playing on a wing at AFL level right now because he simply doesn't know what he is doing.

On the other hand, the backline is dare I say it over resourced with far too many players in front for him to get a look. I agree with letting him spend time in the VFL learning how to play on a wing because whether he likes it or not, that's where his attributes are most valuable to the side. If he wants to play AFL, that'll be his best opportunity. He won't be in the side as a defender now that Martin moved to half back.

 

[FootyGuru]

Bryan is a point of reference.

You've mentioned Fyfe and Dangerfield. The link to those players is a 20m sprint time posted as an 18 year old.

I've given you an example of a more physically developed, better proportioned tall, who posted an even quicker 20m time who doesn't even have high level KPP physical ability, let alone what he needs for the ruck, a year further along than Cox and who has not had any injury trouble. He doesn't play as though the burst of speed is a feature.

This is a nature v nurture thing. You're basing a positive outlook on Cox assuming that he'll be nurtured into having the characteristics nature didn't give him.

I don't subscribe to the pessimism about his play on the wing. It's an area that doesn't require the level of 1v1 physicality of inside mid, KPP or the ruck. He has hardly played. He won't need to dramatically change his body shape or even his overall approach (as opposed to the tactical understanding of the role which he will need to develop). It maximises his running ability, allows his height to be a point of difference (which is what it is at this point, he wouldn't be a different player is he was 190cm). It's a neat trick to be able to turn on to either foot while stuck on one side of ground, too.

To be fair your brought up Fyfe and Dangerfield. I don’t really want to go back and fourth anymore.

cox has the ability to play most positions if given time to developed there. He is only 22 is 200cms and has about 7/8 kgs of muscle that he could easily add to his frame by the time he is in his prime

We need to remember he missed junior footy during Covid, and then has had 2 coaches no pre seasons and a few different injuries.

Whatever confidence he has lost or football he has missed it is up to Essendon and Nik himself to get the best out of himself, because there is no lack of talent.

I don’t mind if Essendon persist with him on the wing/ flanks due to his running and kicking abilities. Having someone 200cm who can take a grab and kick it 65 metres will be an enormous weapon against these modern zone once everything clicks

 

[DERO]

Finally someone who can actually play the Mitch Brown role eh BrunoV ?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Cox is an extremely talented and athletically gifted player. He is only 22, is 200cms and had numerous injuries and no pre seasons. It’s clear he has lost some confidence in himself and his body. Way too early to write off his ability to play wing/ defender or even call him a waste of a pick.

The guy wins time trials, can take hangers, one handed pick ups, quick hands inside, kicks 65 both feet all at 200cms. Cox is quickly becoming essendon fans whipping boy, but we need to relax a bit on someone so young.

Maybe with time he could become a ruckman, or even be our version of kouta, or a Gunston up forward or a prestigiacomo down back. that’s why you use a top end pick on someone with that higher ceiling. Or he will be a mark bolton where we never find him a position. Who knows? All I know it’s way to early to write him off

I don’t think it’s people writing him off, it’s frustration - with the club more than him, probably - because we’ve all seen this shit so many times before.

This is his fourth season and we don’t know what he is. We have just as little an idea as four years ago.

I don’t know how players are supposed to develop when we don’t even know what it is we’re trying to develop them into.

The coaches have seen plenty of him in training and matches. What is their plan? They can talk about it, or make it discernible.

He’ll never be judged fairly against criteria that don’t exist.

The only time he’s been judged fairly was in his first year and that’s not a coincidence, it’s because he had a settled role and people could appreciate and follow the path.

What is this shit? https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/n...ws-story/816d1e4bab5bca8e96cf9baae153bec6?amp

 

[ghostdog]

Why cant we ? tall does not matter if you have mobility which Cox and Ridley have.

I'd be more comfortable with another quick and agile small defender than going in with four talls. With Reid and McKay there, Ridley will be marking everything anyway.

What we lack back there is run and carry with speed. Hind doesn't do it as often or well as he used to, bulking up McGrath to play midfield has caused him to lose his, Redman can run when he gets on his bike but he's not a Saad/McKenna.

It's one of Cox or Ridley for me. We should be looking forward to Jayden Davey back there.

 

[faible]

Laverde is pretty average, and has played 100 games so is father son eligible. There’s really no reason to go with him over cox to start the season should everyone be healthy.

Except Laverde and Kelly are the two most physical defenders we have who actually defend…

Cox has to surpass Laverde, and he hasn’t yet done that.