List Mgmt. 2015 Trade & Free Agency Hellscape Discussion Thread (PG546: Anderson PG732: Bastinac)

[buttsauce]

Two first rounders for Treloar is pretty steep.

Does anyone blame Collingwood for paying overs? Nope. They did what they had to do to get it done.

Look at the Saints, could've had Carlisle but dicked around on the deal and now they've lost him. They better hope pick 5 is a gun because Carlise could've set their backline up for the next 6+ years.

2 first rounders is not overs man. He's a superstar

 

[Roosurgence]

Never described him as the 'second coming,' just as a player that offers the exact skillset that we need now and when the likes of Wells, Dal and Boomer retire.

You're clearly missing the part where Hawthorn have said they want to keep him. Anderson himself has said that he wants to see if there is any interest in him and the club happy to facilitate that request. It just also happens to be that Hawthorn now see an opportunity to use a player that may want out as a tool in getting the player they've targeted and that fills a desperate need for him.

In any case, I'm not sure how saying Hawthorn are trading him is a reason why he's not worth 15, just as its not a reason to say that he is worth 15. Surely it's the players skillset, how he fits in the side, potential, performances and attitude that determine his worth and based on those metrics he is definitely worth it. Particularly when it's at the expense of a prospect that is only a couple of years younger than him with a lower standard of relative performance (if that's the conclusion the list management staff have made when comparing Anderson to projected late first round picks).

To also reply to your above post; every draft pick is a maybe as is Anderson. Its just that, on the evidence, Anderson is less of a maybe than the draft pick.

They want to keep him, but are trading him.... Yep makes perfect sense

You do know he is contracted don't you? So at the end of the day Hawthorn don't have to facilitate a trade.

If they truly wanted to keep him, he wouldn't be seeking out other clubs, surely you aren't naive enough to believe the dribble from a list managers mouth during trade period?

Just listen to the words...... We really want to keep him, but we are letting him explore other opportunities. Yeah they are really fighting tooth and nail to keep him on the list

 

[kangaspurs]

So, looking at where we are at list-wise.

Outgoing players so far: Adams, Grima and McMahon retired, Wallace and Warren rookies de-listed.
Currie looks like he is going to GC. Bastinac possible trade to Brisbane. Black possible to trade to wherever.

Exiting players in our best 22 exiting: Zero

Our pick were 15, 34, 52, 70, 88, 106, 124. The ones after 34 are likely moving back after compensations.

Our rookies remaining: Fordham, Nahas & Preuss. I'm not sure if any of them will be promoted.

Players who didn't figure prominently in the finals: Wells (injured), Nahas (depth), Thomas (injured), Tippett (depth), Currie (depth), Black (form), Daw (depth), Bastinac (form), Mullett (injured/form), Harper (injured/form), McKenzie (development), Wood (development), McDonald (development), Dumont (development), Vickers-Willis (development), Nielson (development and Durdin (development)

Lets assume Currie, Black and Bastinac are traded, if we don't trade anyone in we will be taking in 6 senior listed players and 2 rookies, assuming nobody else is cut. We already have 13 players under 23, that will push us to 21 players under 23, basically around half our squad.

I think we still have a lot of talent on our list.

1st round picks not playing a major role in the side atm: Durdin, McDonald, Garner, McKenzie
Talented 2nd round picks not playing a major role in the side atm: Bastinac, Black, Harper, Wood, Dumont, Nielson, Vickers-Willis

We already have a significant amount of talent to be injected into our side.

I think we have scope to trade in someone like Anderson, being 21 and the attributes he has is probably going to do a lot more for us than sticking on a KPP, flanker or outside mid that is going to be 4 years stuck in our queue of talented players who do not have any opportunity. We have vacancy for a specific player type and he fits the bill, I would have preferred we had a crack at Bennell as well but I think he was determined to return home.

I think Anderson would be a good fit for our team in the short-term and our list in the long-term. If we can get a reasonable pick in addition to Anderson then that would be a good outcome imo. I think we are in a good position to transition into a strong team post the retirement of the older group.

Outstanding post Tas. It pretty much sums up all of my thoughts on our future list position but in a thoroughly analytical and comprehensive way that I could never manage.

 

[Johndory]

don't start backtracking, he has to be the difference next year, while we have Boomer, Mickey, Dal, Wells and Drew. we don't have time to Waite.

I am starting to lean back to "NO WAY DO WE HELP HAWTHORN OUT"

would we be better off taking Wayne Milera and Daniel Rioli with our first two picks?

Expecting a guy that's played 10 games to be the 'difference' in us winning a flag or not is a bit much, that's not gonna happen. That doesnt mean that he cant add quality to the side though.

If you want to get someone to have an impact straight away, you'd choose anderson over the others you have mentioned as he's ready to go and has already been developed.

 

[Roosurgence]

Are we looking at Jed Anderson?

Yep!

By the end of the week we will have given Goldstein and Pick 15

 

[kangaspurs]

They want to keep him, but are trading him.... Yep makes perfect sense

You do know he is contracted don't you? So at the end of the day Hawthorn don't have to facilitate a trade.

If they truly wanted to keep him, he wouldn't be seeking out other clubs, surely you aren't naive enough to believe the dribble from a list managers mouth during trade period?

Just listen to the words...... We really want to keep him, but we are letting him explore other opportunities. Yeah they are really fighting tooth and nail to keep him on the list

Yes, they want to keep him. But he has said he wants to see if there is interest in him and they see him as a way that they can get a young, very good player that fills a desperate need for them. If they acknowledge he may not want to be there and they acknowledge he may help them get a player they want then they would trade him, even though they want to keep him. I'm not sure how that is so hard for you to understand.

Again though, I'm not sure how it is at all a justification for saying he's not worth pick 15.

 

[Shermanator]

Never described him as the 'second coming,' just as a player that offers the exact skillset that we need now and when the likes of Wells, Dal and Boomer retire.

You're clearly missing the part where Hawthorn have said they want to keep him. Anderson himself has said that he wants to see if there is any interest in him and the club happy to facilitate that request. It just also happens to be that Hawthorn now see an opportunity to use a player that may want out as a tool in getting the player they've targeted and that fills a desperate need for him.

In any case, I'm not sure how saying Hawthorn are trading him is a reason why he's not worth 15, just as its not a reason to say that he is worth 15. Surely it's the players skillset, how he fits in the side, potential, performances and attitude that determine his worth and based on those metrics he is definitely worth it. Particularly when it's at the expense of a prospect that is only a couple of years younger than him with a lower standard of relative performance (if that's the conclusion the list management staff have made when comparing Anderson to projected late first round picks).

To also reply to your above post; every draft pick is a maybe as is Anderson. Its just that, on the evidence, Anderson is less of a maybe than the draft pick.

You're wasting your oxygen mate, (if) we give up pick 15 in this shitful draft for a 21yr old tackling machine, with speed and a skill set that is exactly what we need because unfortunately he got pneumonia and was in a coma for 5 days (pfft what a softie not playing with a little cold) in his first couple of years and then got stuck behind duds like Mitchell, Lewis, Smith, Burgoyne and co on their way to a 3-peat then we may miss out on the next Ablett or Fyfe eh?

The chances of snaring a once in a lifetime player with the time honoured pick 15 just far out weigh a ready made AFL footballer with the skill set we're screaming out for.. so NO DEAL!!!

 

[Deadeyeroo]

Yes, they want to keep him. But he has said he wants to see if there is interest in him and they see him as a way that they can get a young, very good player that fills a desperate need for them. If they acknowledge he may not want to be there and they acknowledge he may help them get a player they want then they would trade him, even though they want to keep him. I'm not sure how that is so hard for you to understand.

Again though, I'm not sure how it is at all a justification for saying he's not worth pick 15.

Its easy to understand but downright incompetent list management.

 

[Rooboy 96]

So, looking at where we are at list-wise.

Outgoing players so far: Adams, Grima and McMahon retired, Wallace and Warren rookies de-listed.
Currie looks like he is going to GC. Bastinac possible trade to Brisbane. Black possible to trade to wherever.

Exiting players in our best 22 exiting: Zero

Our pick were 15, 34, 52, 70, 88, 106, 124. The ones after 34 are likely moving back after compensations.

Our rookies remaining: Fordham, Nahas & Preuss. I'm not sure if any of them will be promoted.

Players who didn't figure prominently in the finals: Wells (injured), Nahas (depth), Thomas (injured), Tippett (depth), Currie (depth), Black (form), Daw (depth), Bastinac (form), Mullett (injured/form), Harper (injured/form), McKenzie (development), Wood (development), McDonald (development), Dumont (development), Vickers-Willis (development), Nielson (development and Durdin (development)

Lets assume Currie, Black and Bastinac are traded, if we don't trade anyone in we will be taking in 6 senior listed players and 2 rookies, assuming nobody else is cut. We already have 13 players under 23, that will push us to 21 players under 23, basically around half our squad.

I think we still have a lot of talent on our list.

1st round picks not playing a major role in the side atm: Durdin, McDonald, Garner, McKenzie
Talented 2nd round picks not playing a major role in the side atm: Bastinac, Black, Harper, Wood, Dumont, Nielson, Vickers-Willis

We already have a significant amount of talent to be injected into our side.

I think we have scope to trade in someone like Anderson, being 21 and the attributes he has is probably going to do a lot more for us than sticking on a KPP, flanker or outside mid that is going to be 4 years stuck in our queue of talented players who do not have any opportunity. We have vacancy for a specific player type and he fits the bill, I would have preferred we had a crack at Bennell as well but I think he was determined to return home.

I think Anderson would be a good fit for our team in the short-term and our list in the long-term. If we can get a reasonable pick in addition to Anderson then that would be a good outcome imo. I think we are in a good position to transition into a strong team post the retirement of the older group.

I like most of what you say, but just think you are underselling Basti, when you play 17 games in a season, and come 22 in the Syd Barker. I Think you have a right to be called best 22 (just). no matter how much his laconic behavior annoys some.

 

[Roosurgence]

Yes, they want to keep him. But he has said he wants to see if there is interest in him and they see him as a way that they can get a young, very good player that fills a desperate need for them. If they acknowledge he may not want to be there and they acknowledge he may help them get a player they want then they would trade him, even though they want to keep him. I'm not sure how that is so hard for you to understand.

Mate you really need to listen to what you are posting. I think you are struggling to grasp the concept of Hawthorn are not desperate to keep Jed Anderson and are now cashing in on a club that has become desperate to just land someone after receiving multiple rejections.

It's the Saturday night rule, if it's 2 o'clock and you still haven't pulled a bird even the pigs start to look mighty fine.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

I like most of what you say, but just think you are underselling Basti, when you play 17 games in a season, and come 22 in the Syd Barker. I Think you have a right to be called best 22 (just). no matter how much his laconic behavior annoys some.

If your on the fringe of the 22 your not best 22 simple.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Expecting a guy that's played 10 games to be the 'difference' in us winning a flag or not is a bit much, that's not gonna happen. That doesnt mean that he cant add quality to the side though.

If you want to get someone to have an impact straight away, you'd choose anderson over the others you have mentioned as he's ready to go and has already been developed.

all we are missing is outside run, and that is what he is delivering, in spades apparently. so that should be enough.

 

[Tas]

Expecting a guy that's played 10 games to be the 'difference' in us winning a flag or not is a bit much, that's not gonna happen. That doesnt mean that he cant add quality to the side though.

If you want to get someone to have an impact straight away, you'd choose anderson over the others you have mentioned as he's ready to go and has already been developed.

I don't expect him to be the difference, we play a team oriented game so our improvement has to come from a team-wide improvement in ball use, retention of possession and quality inside 50 supply, the reason we didn't make the GF was not work rate or effort, it was a lack of polish, we turned the ball over something putrid and we missed a lot of gettable shots on goal.

If we have Wells and Anderson in the side short-term, our ball use will improve significantly by adding some more class and x-factor, but we need everyone in the team to improve, our system needs to improve. If we apply ourselves like we did in the second half for a whole season and we fix a lot of the little things we don't do well, then we have a huge scope for improvement and we didn't need that much more improvement to make the GF from 8th spot.

 

[kangaspurs]

Its easy to understand but downright incompetent list management.

I've already expressed a number of times why it's not but for the interest of this thread and the sanity of it's readers, I'm not going to repeat myself. I'm done. All I'll say now is; I really hope this trade comes through.

Roosurgence. But we're not getting him because we're desperate. We're getting him because he perfectly fills a gaping hole in our list and our best 22. It's clear we're not going to persuade the other so, as above, I'm done.

 

[Rooboy 96]

If your on the fringe of the 22 your not best 22 simple.

so best 22 is only 16 blokes. okay thanks for clearing that up.

 

[sbdan]

Forget the draft pick, we're effectively getting a jet who can make an immediate impact, offers everything we're lacking and will be a 10 year player in return for an 18 year old kid who may have a first three years that mirrors Brad McKenzie so far.

I have a couple of Hawthorn supporting mates who are very disappointed they are losing Anderson as they rate him that highly and it's clear this is mirrored on BF with many Hawthorn fans waxing lyrical about him. Almost all Hawthorn fans believe he will be an absolute gun and 15 may prove to be a bargain in the future.

And yet the Hawks are happy to let him go. With their ageing midfield, the question has to be asked, why?
I am very suss on trades from hawthorn. We seem to have got a number of shonks over the not too distant past.

 

[Rooboy 96]

And just because he's not in Hawthorn's 22, doesn't mean he is automatically a dud.

is Hawthorn's 22, 22 or 16?

 

[Tas]

I like most of what you say, but just think you are underselling Basti, when you play 17 games in a season, and come 22 in the Syd Barker. I Think you have a right to be called best 22 (just). no matter how much his laconic behavior annoys some.

I'm not underselling him, he is touring the Brisbane facilities while he has 2 years left on his contract, that just doesn't bode well that we will be retaining him.

As for not in our best 22, he wasn't in the end.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

so best 22 is only 16 blokes. okay thanks for clearing that up.

No but at every club there are 1-4 players that arent best 22 and clearly Basti wasnt this year for the most part. He does have runs on the board though and should potentially bring a 2nd rounder for us which might come in handy for the Anderson deal.

 

[Roosurgence]

If your on the fringe of the 22 your not best 22 simple.

So we should expect a first rounder then under the Anderson rule?

I've already expressed a number of times why it's not but for the interest of this thread and the sanity of it's readers, I'm not going to repeat myself. I'm done. All I'll say now is; I really hope this trade comes through.

Roosurgence. But we're not getting him because we're desperate. We're getting him because he perfectly fills a gaping hole in our list and our best 22. It's clear we're not going to persuade the other so, as above, I'm done.

This trade reeks of desperation, after beening rejected by turnips like Seedsman and Howe, the club is just trying to land a target at whatever cost.

If Jed Anderson and Pick 15 were brought up straight after the GF people would have been asking you to pass the joint.

 

[coopers pale]

It's pick 15 in a rubbish draft, maybe equivalent of pick 22-25 in a normal draft. His skillset screams wingman to me, a position we've struggled with for years. Looking at his youtube stuff he's strong overhead, moves smoothly, takes on tacklers and his kicking looks precise. In my happy place we stick him on one wing, Wood on the other and get them running up and back all day, Wood providing cut-out marks and outlet kicks and Anderson offering the run-and-carry along with Atley and precision kicking with Wright to chop opposition teams up on the rebound. If we could slot a Wells in the midfield to go with it and suddenly our meat-grinder features less grinding and more well-oiled smooth-moving!

I don't know enough about him to rate his talent, but by TYPE he's tailor-made. I'm going to back the club and say I like the move, hoping the other part of the trade (draft pick swaps) softens the pick-15 bit.

And hey, at least we're targeting the player type we need, not like Carlton trading out key forwards and trying to recruit more midfielders. Haha!!!

 

[Rooboy 96]

Yes, they want to keep him. But he has said he wants to see if there is interest in him and they see him as a way that they can get a young, very good player that fills a desperate need for them. If they acknowledge he may not want to be there and they acknowledge he may help them get a player they want then they would trade him, even though they want to keep him. I'm not sure how that is so hard for you to understand.

Again though, I'm not sure how it is at all a justification for saying he's not worth pick 15.

Didn't Hawthorn say he was worth a pick between 20 and 25, surely the ambit claim is suppose to work that they say 20 to 25 and we get him for 30 to 35, or is this a bit like the best 22 is not 22?

 

[Shermanator]

It's pick 15 in a rubbish draft, maybe equivalent of pick 22-25 in a normal draft. His skillset screams wingman to me, a position we've struggled with for years. Looking at his youtube stuff he's strong overhead, moves smoothly, takes on tacklers and his kicking looks precise. In my happy place we stick him on one wing, Wood on the other and get them running up and back all day, Wood providing cut-out marks and outlet kicks and Anderson offering the run-and-carry along with Atley and precision kicking with Wright to chop opposition teams up on the rebound. If we could slot a Wells in the midfield to go with it and suddenly our meat-grinder features less grinding and more well-oiled smooth-moving!

I don't know enough about him to rate his talent, but by TYPE he's tailor-made. I'm going to back the club and say I like the move, hoping the other part of the trade (draft pick swaps) softens the pick-15 bit.

And hey, at least we're targeting the player type we need, not like Carlton trading out key forwards and trying to recruit more midfielders. Haha!!!

Your making sense - that's not allowed when discussing Jedi vs pick 15 in this super draft!

 

[Rooboy 96]

You're wasting your oxygen mate, (if) we give up pick 15 in this shitful draft for a 21yr old tackling machine, with speed and a skill set that is exactly what we need because unfortunately he got pneumonia and was in a coma for 5 days (pfft what a softie not playing with a little cold) in his first couple of years and then got stuck behind duds like Mitchell, Lewis, Smith, Burgoyne and co on their way to a 3-peat then we may miss out on the next Ablett or Fyfe eh?

The chances of snaring a once in a lifetime player with the time honoured pick 15 just far out weigh a ready made AFL footballer with the skill set we're screaming out for.. so NO DEAL!!!

Hey Sherm, you do remember what picks Fyfe and Ablett went at?

 

[tiltraise]

I am starting to lean back to "NO THUCKEN WAY DO WE HELP HAWTHORN OUT"

Its possible this Carlisle deal could hinder them in the short term if he was to be banned for 12 months+