Universal Love 2016/2017 Pre-season Thread

[Iron]

No Adelaide coach has survived after missing the finals for 3 consecutive years. Cornes is the only coach to have survived after missing for 2 consecutive seasons (91 & 92) - and he took us to a PF in 93.

Cornes - missed finals in 91,92, PF in 93, missed finals in 94 - sacked
Shaw - missed finals in 95, 96 - sacked
Blight - premierships in 97, 98, retired in 99
Ayres - missed finals in 2000, finals in 01, 02, 03, quit (before being sacked) after missing finals in 04
Craig - finals in 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, missed finals in 10, sacked after missing finals in 11
Sanderson - finals in 12, missed finals in 13, sacked after missing finals in 14
Walsh & Bickley - finals in 15
Pyke - finals in 16

Those are not the actions of a club which is accepting of mediocrity. Those are the actions of a club where success is both demanded and expected.

I think it would be more accurate to describe those as the actions of a club who demands finals appareances, not necessarily success.

 

[Jack is Back]

Half back, wing and midfield as we have been all pre-season for Mackay.

The main rotations through the wing were Atkins, Charlie and Milera on the weekend with those three relieving in the middle at times as well.

On a (semi-)serious note, Bran Nue Mackae has played quite well in the midfield (both inside and outside) during the JLT but it scares me when he is playing in defence. If we play him on Toby Greene I may have to torch my member's card.

Everyone makes mistakes but watching BNM being ragdolled by a 70Kg newbie simply drives me crazy ( refer to Parish video).

 

[hey shorty]

I think it would be more accurate to describe those as the actions of a club who demands finals appareances, not necessarily success.

Yes and no. One isn't too far removed from one and other really. Everyone has failings but our previous coaches, probably bar Cornesy, had glaring errors.

It's a fine balance between changing too often from impatience and staying the course too long for no good reason.

Bomber was in the job 7 years before a flag, Sando was in the job 3 years in total.

 

[NikkiNoo]

On a (semi-)serious note, Bran Nue Mackae has played quite well in the midfield (both inside and outside) during the JLT but it scares me when he is playing in defence. If we play him on Toby Greene I may have to torch my member's card.

Everyone makes mistakes but watching BNM being ragdolled by a 70Kg newbie simply drives me crazy ( refer to Parish video).

When he plays in defence it is the loose man role. We don't play him on an actual forward . A couple of the hits he took and dished out against Brisbane was pleasing to see from his game on the weekend.

 

[MRB37]

When he plays in defence it is the loose man role. We don't play him on an actual forward . A couple of the hits he took and dished out against Brisbane was pleasing to see from his game on the weekend.

I did notice that. Completely bowled over a Brisbane player which really surprised me.

 

[Vader]

He was thrown into Tex's position late last year and kicked 4 goals that game as one of the main targets

There's a bit of truth on both sides of this argument.

There is no doubt that McGovern thrived when given the opportunity to play without being overshadowed by Tex. However, it was only one game (a very small sample set) and it was against a very weak opponent (Essendon). Anyone drawing conclusions based solely on this have rocks in their head.

Also true, is the fact that McGovern's performances in 2016 were wildly inconsistent. This is hardly surprising, given that it was his first year playing full time in the big league. His low point came in the game against Geelong, where he managed just 2 disposals - one of which was a kick which went out of bounds on the full. He now has a full season of experience behind him, and another pre-season under his belt. There is every reason to expect that his consistency will improve, though by how much is currently unknown.

 

[Vader]

AFL.com predicted Round 1 team

B: Luke Brown, Kyle Hartigan, Jake Lever
HB: Brodie Smith, Daniel Talia, Rory Laird
C: Rory Atkins, Matt Crouch, David Mackay
HF: Tom Lynch, Taylor Walker, Charlie Cameron
F: Eddie Betts, Josh Jenkins, Mitch McGovern
Foll: Sam Jacobs, Rory Sloane, Richard Douglas
I/C: Andy Otten, Curtly Hampton, Wayne Milera, Harrison Wigg

It's an interesting prediction.

I can't see Otten being named in the same team as Lever, Hartigan and Talia. Given that they haven't named Cheney, I think it is far more likely that Jake Kelly will play in R1.

That leaves the selection of the last midfielder. Assuming Sloane is fit to play, and Mackay is selected to the howls of anguish from BF, then we're looking at 3 midfield changes from last year. Gone are Brouch (inj), Thompson (inj), and Lyons (traded). Hampton and Milera have both performed during the JLT series, and appear to have cemented their positions in the R1 team. That leaves one vacancy remaining...

I think it's interesting that the AFL writers gave that position to Wigg, given his dismal DE in the JLT games he played, and his non-selection for JLT 3. If we assume that JLT 3 was basically a dress rehearsal for R1, then it's likely that Wigg is not one of the leading contenders.

Based on the JLT 3 team, the following players appear to be vying for that last place in the team - Menzel, Greenwood and Gallucci. Of these, Menzel is the most advanced (not surprisingly), but he probably has the least upside of all 3 options. Greenwood has a fair bit of upside, but struggled in coming to terms with the pace of AFL competition. A few more games under his belt and he could really start to shine. Gallucci probably has the most upside of all 3 players, but he's the youngest and least experienced, and that showed in his JLT performances. I would like to see him given the opportunity to play at the top level for a few weeks, to see if he's capable of adjusting this year (or whether he needs a full season in the SANFL).

Big question... who gets that finals position in the Adelaide midfield for R1?

 

[Jack is Back]

When he plays in defence it is the loose man role. We don't play him on an actual forward . A couple of the hits he took and dished out against Brisbane was pleasing to see from his game on the weekend.

I didn't see the game live so it was impossible picking up the positioning of our defenders on TV. No doubt Spackler would have been surprised that we were playing a loose man in defence .

I have no problem with BMN playing as a plus one in defence but with our team defence it is inevitable that he will have to win some one on ones. He is an excellent whipping boy because when he stuffs up, it is very noticeable and very annoying. I found that it was far less stressful last season when I changed from a Mackay critic to a fan of Bran Nue Mackae. The trick is to imagine he is a first year recruit (not hard to imagine) and forgive the occasional brain fade (like 2 goal 12 behinds and a heap of OOFs). Just keep saying "he could be anything in 4 year's time".

 

[MRB37]

It's an interesting prediction.

I can't see Otten being named in the same team as Lever, Hartigan and Talia. Given that they haven't named Cheney, I think it is far more likely that Jake Kelly will play in R1.

I tend to agree with that, though I guess there may be thoughts about having Talia, Hartigan and Otten in against Cameron, Patton and Lobb.

I think they general assumption that Otten is a like for like replacement for Cheney is being made by a lot of pundits who don't watch a great deal of Crows games and just make the tall for tall substitution.

 

[Vader]

I tend to agree with that, though I guess there may be thoughts about having Talia, Hartigan and Otten in against Cameron, Patton and Lobb.

I think they general assumption that Otten is a like for like replacement for Cheney is being made by a lot of pundits who don't watch a great deal of Crows games and just make the tall for tall substitution.

Except that Cheney isn't a tall... which says how closely they're (not) watching Crows games. Otten is a replacement for Talia, Hartigan or Lever. Kelly is a decent replacement for Cheney.

 

[footy4ever]

I don't know if its that dumb...

Interesting that AFL app showing 55% tipping Crows, 45% tipping GWS.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

It's an interesting prediction.

I can't see Otten being named in the same team as Lever, Hartigan and Talia. Given that they haven't named Cheney, I think it is far more likely that Jake Kelly will play in R1.

That leaves the selection of the last midfielder. Assuming Sloane is fit to play, and Mackay is selected to the howls of anguish from BF, then we're looking at 3 midfield changes from last year. Gone are Brouch (inj), Thompson (inj), and Lyons (traded). Hampton and Milera have both performed during the JLT series, and appear to have cemented their positions in the R1 team. That leaves one vacancy remaining...

I think it's interesting that the AFL writers gave that position to Wigg, given his dismal DE in the JLT games he played, and his non-selection for JLT 3. If we assume that JLT 3 was basically a dress rehearsal for R1, then it's likely that Wigg is not one of the leading contenders.

Based on the JLT 3 team, the following players appear to be vying for that last place in the team - Menzel, Greenwood and Gallucci. Of these, Menzel is the most advanced (not surprisingly), but he probably has the least upside of all 3 options. Greenwood has a fair bit of upside, but struggled in coming to terms with the pace of AFL competition. A few more games under his belt and he could really start to shine. Gallucci probably has the most upside of all 3 players, but he's the youngest and least experienced, and that showed in his JLT performances. I would like to see him given the opportunity to play at the top level for a few weeks, to see if he's capable of adjusting this year (or whether he needs a full season in the SANFL).

Big question... who gets that finals position in the Adelaide midfield for R1?

I performed the same analysis just then prior to reading your post and came to the same conclusion.

Twenty of the twenty two spots are pretty much filled - with 18 names locked in and the other two spots going to Lever/Otten and Kelly/Cheney depending on Lever and Cheney's fitness.

Position 21 comes down to whether tex is fit or not.

If Tex is fit, then Menzel, Gallucci and Greenwood fight over the last spot. If Tex is out then two of these guys play [edit: and Menzel will be one of them in this case].

 

[marty36]

There's a bit of truth on both sides of this argument.

There is no doubt that McGovern thrived when given the opportunity to play without being overshadowed by Tex. However, it was only one game (a very small sample set) and it was against a very weak opponent (Essendon). Anyone drawing conclusions based solely on this have rocks in their head.

Also true, is the fact that McGovern's performances in 2016 were wildly inconsistent. This is hardly surprising, given that it was his first year playing full time in the big league. His low point came in the game against Geelong, where he managed just 2 disposals - one of which was a kick which went out of bounds on the full. He now has a full season of experience behind him, and another pre-season under his belt. There is every reason to expect that his consistency will improve, though by how much is currently unknown.

Exactly what I said, he is currently inconsistent, is not ready to take over from Tex in no way shape or form, needs to cement his spot with consistency standing the 4th or 5th defender but is a long way from holding down a KPF, as Tex easily gets the toughest defender every week, Gov should see himself lucky as that defender will probably go to Lynch or JJ, as other teams will rate them better players.

Posters can say what they like, the opposition will judge the players in your team by who they match up against you.

Gov needs another year to get that consistency then next year step it up and be the go to man, look how long its taken Daniher but you can see him destroying teams this year, does help when your 200cm although that does make it take longer

 

[Jeffcrowe]

It's an interesting prediction.

I can't see Otten being named in the same team as Lever, Hartigan and Talia. Given that they haven't named Cheney, I think it is far more likely that Jake Kelly will play in R1.

That leaves the selection of the last midfielder. Assuming Sloane is fit to play, and Mackay is selected to the howls of anguish from BF, then we're looking at 3 midfield changes from last year. Gone are Brouch (inj), Thompson (inj), and Lyons (traded). Hampton and Milera have both performed during the JLT series, and appear to have cemented their positions in the R1 team. That leaves one vacancy remaining...

I think it's interesting that the AFL writers gave that position to Wigg, given his dismal DE in the JLT games he played, and his non-selection for JLT 3. If we assume that JLT 3 was basically a dress rehearsal for R1, then it's likely that Wigg is not one of the leading contenders.

Based on the JLT 3 team, the following players appear to be vying for that last place in the team - Menzel, Greenwood and Gallucci. Of these, Menzel is the most advanced (not surprisingly), but he probably has the least upside of all 3 options. Greenwood has a fair bit of upside, but struggled in coming to terms with the pace of AFL competition. A few more games under his belt and he could really start to shine. Gallucci probably has the most upside of all 3 players, but he's the youngest and least experienced, and that showed in his JLT performances. I would like to see him given the opportunity to play at the top level for a few weeks, to see if he's capable of adjusting this year (or whether he needs a full season in the SANFL).

Big question... who gets that finals position in the Adelaide midfield for R1?

Agree on the the Kelly call Vader

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Exactly what I said, he is currently inconsistent, is not ready to take over from Tex in no way shape or form, needs to cement his spot with consistency standing the 4th or 5th defender but is a long way from holding down a KPF, as Tex easily gets the toughest defender every week, Gov should see himself lucky as that defender will probably go to Lynch or JJ, as other teams will rate them better players.

Posters can say what they like, the opposition will judge the players in your team by who they match up against you.

Gov needs another year to get that consistency then next year step it up and be the go to man, look how long its taken Daniher but you can see him destroying teams this year, does help when your 200cm although that does make it take longer

The forward line is a sum of its parts . All Gov needs to do is play his role which will be expanded somewhat if tex misses because he'll be used as a target more

He's up to it . I'm not concerned about our forward line with or without tex

Greater issues heading into round 1 like not allowing GWS to use fast ball movement and making sure we win enough footy at the source

 

[marty36]

Interesting that AFL app showing 55% tipping Crows, 45% tipping GWS.

With no one knowing true form yet this year, Home team should get a lot of support, should be similar accross all games unless there is a perceived gap between teams from last year

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I performed the same analysis just then prior to reading your post and came to the same conclusion.

Twenty of the twenty two spots are pretty much filled - with 18 names locked in and the other two spots going to Lever/Otten and Kelly/Cheney depending on Lever and Cheney's fitness.

Position 21 comes down to whether tex is fit or not.

If Tex is fit, then Menzel, Gallucci and Greenwood fight over the last spot. If Tex is out then two of these guys play [edit: and Menzel will be one of them in this case].

I think Galluci won't be considered and that spot is between Menzel Greenwood and Wigg

Pretty sure they wanted Galluci Poholke and Wigg to each play 2 JLT games each to get some exposure so don't read too much into Galluci playing the last JLT game

 

[marty36]

The forward line is a sum of its parts . All Gov needs to do is play his role which will be expanded somewhat if tex misses because he'll be used as a target more

He's up to it . I'm not concerned about our forward line with or without tex

Greater issues heading into round 1 like not allowing GWS to use fast ball movement and making sure we win enough footy at the source

I know the forward line is the least of our issues, but without Tex I think it could become an issue, Gov is great but simply doesnt have the physicall presence of Tex, JJ should have but doesnt either and KLynch is more of a workhorse. I could see some major changes in our game plan with the big man not making a contest

 

[marty36]

I think Galluci won't be considered and that spot is between Menzel Greenwood and Wigg

Pretty sure they wanted Galluci Poholke and Wigg to each play 2 JLT games each to get some exposure so don't read too much into Galluci playing the last JLT game

TBH Poholke has probably made more of a case for a gig than Galluci at this early stage

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I know the forward line is the least of our issues, but without Tex I think it could become an issue, Gov is great but simply doesnt have the physicall presence of Tex, JJ should have but doesnt either and KLynch is more of a workhorse. I could see some major changes in our game plan with the big man not making a contest

Getting to the game could be an issue , there may be a bus strike or taxi shortage

But it's not something I'm worried about

Same if Tex misses , not worried . We have multiple avenues to our forward line. tex and lynch essentially play as 2 high half forwards

The biggest loss is Tex kicking I50, so others step up . It's still a multi talented forward line and makes us a little more unpredicatable as a once off

 

[marty36]

Getting to the game could be an issue , there may be a bus strike or taxi shortage

But it's not something I'm worried about

Same if Tex misses , not worried . We have multiple avenues to our forward line. tex and lynch essentially play as 2 high half forwards

The biggest loss is Tex kicking I50, so others step up . It's still a multi talented forward line and makes us a little more unpredicatable as a once off

Thnk your underestimating the value of a true KPF

 

[Vader]

Exactly what I said, he is currently inconsistent, is not ready to take over from Tex in no way shape or form, needs to cement his spot with consistency standing the 4th or 5th defender but is a long way from holding down a KPF, as Tex easily gets the toughest defender every week, Gov should see himself lucky as that defender will probably go to Lynch or JJ, as other teams will rate them better players.

Posters can say what they like, the opposition will judge the players in your team by who they match up against you.

Gov needs another year to get that consistency then next year step it up and be the go to man, look how long its taken Daniher but you can see him destroying teams this year, does help when your 200cm although that does make it take longer

I might agree with you, if Walker was Mr Consistency himself. But he's not. I'm not sure that McGovern's inconsistency would be any worse than Walker's, given the same opportunities/delivery that Walker receives.

Maybe he needs another year, maybe not.

 

[Vader]

Agree on the the Kelly call Vader

But who do you think will fill that last midfield vacancy?

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Seriously concerned about the lack of Riley Knight so far....

 

[marty36]

I might agree with you, if Walker was Mr Consistency himself. But he's not. I'm not sure that McGovern's inconsistency would be any worse than Walker's, given the same opportunities/delivery that Walker receives.

Maybe he needs another year, maybe not.

191 cm (6 ft 3 in) / 84 kg (13 st 3 lb)

194 cm (6 ft 4 in) / 98 kg (15 st 6 lb)

Fair bit of difference as KPF wouldnt you say