List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[King Elvis]

Well, Mackay was a long way from our worst against WCE.

He was probably in our ten or twelve best players.

But putting that aside - 1970Crow is right. Senior players don't just get dropped after one bad performance. He clearly is somewhere 18-25 on our list, and we've deliberately recruited players of a similar type. It would be incredibly disappointing if a couple of them don't race past him.

Depends on how you evaluate his game mate.

I'd say his value to the side, especially without Smith, is to actually perform the role of a wingman.

A lot of the team was shit, no doubt - but I would label 17-18 handballs and 5 kicks, from a wingman, when your side is struggling to get it past centre, or move the ball with any pace or aggression, a shocking. Crouch boys have both been criticized for hand balling too much, and they're rarely that out of kilter - and they play inside.

I think a lot of people see his 23 touches and assume he played a good game. He wasn't our worst, but he did almost nothing to help us win the game, and the exact thing a player of his type should be doing, which was critical to us countering their gameplan; he didn't do.

 

[Vhaluus]

Depends on how you evaluate his game mate.

I'd say his value to the side, especially without Smith, is to actually perform the role of a wingman.

A lot of the team was shit, no doubt - but I would label 17-18 handballs and 5 kicks, from a wingman, when your side is struggling to get it past centre, or move the ball with any pace or aggression, a shocking. Crouch boys have both been criticized for hand balling too much, and they're rarely that out of kilter - and they play inside.

I think a lot of people see his 23 touches and assume he played a good game. He wasn't our worst, but he did almost nothing to help us win the game, and the exact thing a player of his type should be doing, which was critical to us countering their gameplan; he didn't do.

I am so freaking tired of 'He wasn't our worst player' being used as a defense.

He was in our bottom 10 against WCE and has been in the bottom 10 more consistently than any other player.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I am so freaking tired of 'He wasn't our worst player' being used as a defense.

He was in our bottom 10 against WCE and has been in the bottom 10 more consistently than any other player.

Yep. Rinse, repeat.

But he wasn't the worst...

 

[1970crow]

Yep. Rinse, repeat.

But he wasn't the worst...

"Tex was worse, you saying we should drop Tex?". Yeh, that's what's being said. Week to week selection is what we're after. Every week we want the worst 3-4 players dropped, regardless of role, structure or recent form line.

 

[Mego Red]

Depends on how you evaluate his game mate.

I'd say his value to the side, especially without Smith, is to actually perform the role of a wingman.

A lot of the team was shit, no doubt - but I would label 17-18 handballs and 5 kicks, from a wingman, when your side is struggling to get it past centre, or move the ball with any pace or aggression, a shocking. Crouch boys have both been criticized for hand balling too much, and they're rarely that out of kilter - and they play inside.

I think a lot of people see his 23 touches and assume he played a good game. He wasn't our worst, but he did almost nothing to help us win the game, and the exact thing a player of his type should be doing, which was critical to us countering their gameplan; he didn't do.

He did some great link man work.

And he plays the role that the coaching staff give him. If he hasn't done what is expected, he'll be dropped.

 

[Mego Red]

I am so freaking tired of 'He wasn't our worst player' being used as a defense.

He was in our bottom 10 against WCE and has been in the bottom 10 more consistently than any other player.

C'mon. We need a sensible debate on this.

He may still get dropped for structural reasons, and if be happy with that. But there were a LOT worse than him against WCE.

For starters - Jacobs, Cameron, Lever, Hartigan, Jenkins, CEY, Tex, Betts, Lynch, Brown. All had absolute disaster games. The Gov was invisible and Laird put it on the opposition chest maybe five times.

 

[SA_Stazza]

no, I don't trust your analysis of Brisbane's list.

Please highlight the players you consider to be B grade in the lists below.. this will be amusing

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

C'mon. We need a sensible debate on this.

He may still get dropped for structural reasons, and if be happy with that. But there were a LOT worse than him against WCE.

For starters - Jacobs, Cameron, Lever, Hartigan, Jenkins, CEY, Tex, Betts, Lynch, Brown. All had absolute disaster games. The Gov was invisible and Laird put it on the opposition chest maybe five times.

Nah, you just don't understand the line of thinking from those of us wanting Mackay out.

He is a consistent 4 to 6 out of 10 with the occasional 3 game and even less occasional 7 game.

The consistent 4 to 6's mean that he is rarely our worst, but equally he is less rarely our best (in fact he has never been our best player in over 150 games). Name another player who has not once been their teams best player over such a prolonged period.

These types of guys may survive in bottom 10 teams, but have no place getting regular games in top8 sides.

 

[Mego Red]

Nah, you just don't understand the line of thinking from those of us wanting Mackay out.

He is a consistent 4 to 6 out of 10 with the occasional 3 game and even less occasional 7 game.

The consistent 4 to 6's mean that he is rarely our worst, but equally he is less rarely our best (in fact he has never been our best player in over 150 games). Name another player who has not once been their teams best player over such a prolonged period.

These types of guys may survive in bottom 10 teams, but have no place getting regular games in top8 sides.

No, I actually agree with all that. I think the coaches do too - he was dropped earlier in the year.

I think the fact that we want to take B- players and replace them with A players is fair enough.

 

[Mego Red]

Please highlight the players you consider to be B grade in the lists below.. this will be amusing

Of that list: Cutler, Lester, Skinner, Freeman, Bell, Paperone, Green, Bewick and Jensen are all at least B graders.

 

[SA_Stazza]

I'd add lowden and vb and we'd get Pearce Hanley too.

Now you're just being completely condescending. Grow up. Try using that soft tissue between your ears, the stuff that tends to emit logic for most people.

Breaking down the parts of this trade so your pea brain can clearly compute it:

1) we give them our 1st rounder - which will likely give them three inside the 1st round this year (not only does this position them well for stockpiling future talent in the draft, it can also open up opportunities to package up picks to throw at a club for a genuine star). In case you hadn't noticed, Brisbane are in desperate need of acquiring emerging talent, and plenty of it, sooner rather than later. Their list has been raided of it in recent times, or were you hibernating?

2) we sacrifice a player they've been interested in for the better part of two years, a player who can slot straight into their best 22, one who is better than the soft as butter inside mid they decided to throw a 2nd rounder at last year, and an upgrade on their already sheisenhousen crop of mids. He fills multiple gaps in areas they are currently beyond struggling in. Clearly you've never worked in recruitment. Adelaide alone handed over 2nd round picks for two players not even considered best 22 in their respective sides.

3) we offer an already established, seasoned player who would not only fill the age demographic their list is screaming out for to remain even slightly competitive (and would be further depleted in this area by losing both Sauce and Rockliff), but would also go some way to offsetting the number of games experience lost by those outgoing players.

If you think we're going to have to hand over a first rounder plus multiple best 22 players to secure the services of an almost 27 yr old who is out of contract next year, who by all reports is being pushed out by the club, you are dreaming. This isn't fairyland; AFL clubs don't have over multiple best players and/or first rounders for a player they're only going to enjoy the services of for a likely period of no more than 5 years, especially one who reportedly isn't wanted by their club.

Instead of hopelessly trying to make a mockery of a well thought out trade scenario, show us all how remarkably intelligent you are and offer your own trade scenario.. Please indulge us.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Of that list: Cutler, Lester, Skinner, Freeman, Bell, Paperone, Green, Bewick and Jensen are all at least B graders.

Bell and Cutler are B graders.

Rest are very average

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

No, I actually agree with all that. I think the coaches do too - he was dropped earlier in the year.

I think the fact that we want to take B- players and replace them with A players is fair enough.

Mackay is not a B grader.

 

[Vhaluus]

C'mon. We need a sensible debate on this.

He may still get dropped for structural reasons, and if be happy with that. But there were a LOT worse than him against WCE.

For starters - Jacobs, Cameron, Lever, Hartigan, Jenkins, CEY, Tex, Betts, Lynch, Brown. All had absolute disaster games. The Gov was invisible and Laird put it on the opposition chest maybe five times.

A lot of those players you named had horrible games by the high standards we hold them to. But in a vacuum, with no past knowledge of the player or their ability Mackay performed worse than a few you have on your list.

 

[SA_Stazza]

Of that list: Cutler, Lester, Skinner, Freeman, Bell, Paperone, Green, Bewick and Jensen are all at least B graders.

No, just no.

Skinner a B grader?
Freeman a B grader?
Jansen a B grader?
Paparone a B grader?
Bewick a B grader?
Green a B grader?

Cutler borderline, Lester and Bell - have you seen their performances this year?

Really?? What universe do you live in? You must consider David Mackay A Grade.

Which still leaves at least 15 C graders, which is the point I was arguing.

 

[Vhaluus]

No, just no.

Skinner a B grader?
Freeman a B grader?
Jansen a B grader?
Paparone a B grader?
Bewick a B grader?
Green a B grader?

Cutler borderline, Lester and Bell - have you seen their performances this year?

Really?? What universe do you live in? You must consider David Mackay A Grade.

Which still leaves at least 15 C graders, which is the point I was arguing.

Well the media have been calling Hartlett a 'star' so what constitutes a A/B/C grade player apparently got screwed up along the way somewhere in the mind of media and fans.

 

[SA_Stazza]

Well the media have been calling Hartlett a 'star' so what constitutes a A/B/C grade player apparently got screwed up along the way somewhere in the mind of media and fans.

You actually listen and pay credence to the media?? Media personalities like Rowey are known to drop the 'superstar' tag on average players every day (Note: I no longer listen to 5AA).

Why not use your own footy nous?

Edit: Hartlett is B grade, with all the attributes and weapons which should have seen him develop into an A grader. Whether he still does or not remains to be seen.

 

[Vhaluus]

You actually listen and pay credence to the media?? Media personalities like Rowey are known to drop the 'superstar' tag on average players every day (Note: I no longer listen to 5AA).

Why not use your own footy nous?

I do, I was just pointing out where the expectation gap in ratings potentially was.

I wasn't talking about 5AA in this case either, afl.com.au in this example.

 

[SA_Stazza]

I do, I was just pointing out where the expectation gap in ratings potentially was.

I wasn't talking about 5AA in this case either, afl.com.au in this example.

There's your problem

 

[Vhaluus]

There's your problem

Jesus dude, I wasn't even disagree with you... calm down with the hostility.

 

[SA_Stazza]

Jesus dude, I wasn't even disagree with you... calm down with the hostility.

I'm not even being remotely hostile dude, I was merely pointing out that you should not pay any credence to who the media designate 'stars'

 

[Scorpus]

Please highlight the players you consider to be B grade in the lists below.. this will be amusing

Here are the C graders (or below) on Brisbane's list in my opinion. If you haven't played a single game this year in the worst team in the league you are automatically C grade.

1. Josh Watts
2. Sam Skinner
3. Josh McGuinness
4. Jaden McGrath
5. Hugh Beasley
6. Cian Hanley (none of the above players played one game this season. That's immediately 6 E graders)
7. Reuben William
8. Billy Evans
9. Jarrad Jansen
10. Jackson Paine
11. Nick Robertson
12. Josh Walker
13. Marco Paparone
14. Trent West
15. Ryan Harwood
16. Ryan Lester
17. Josh Green
18. Rohan Bewick
19. Archie Smith
20. Matthew Hammelmann
21. Jono Freeman
22. Liam Dawson

Those guys at the minimum are C grade players on the Brisbane list this year. I have been extremely generous to some young players like Mathieson, and other guys like Bell and Bastinac, who otherwise would be classed as C grade were they in the Crows side

So I'd say that Brisbane have at least 20 C grade players (or worse), possibly as many as 25-30

 

[kenny the crow]

I would absolutely having a look at Hartlett.. Maybe a fresh start with us could do him good. He has been talked up by laidley after he left the power as the most naturally talented player on there list. For what ever reason he hasn't reached the level at Port hopefully he could with us. I would give our first and cey in exchange for Hartlett and a 2nd round pick back from the power

 

[rezagun]

I am so freaking tired of 'He wasn't our worst player' being used as a defense.

He was in our bottom 10 against WCE and has been in the bottom 10 more consistently than any other player.

Hence no coaches, brownlow votes

 

[FantasticShirt]

I would absolutely having a look at Hartlett.. Maybe a fresh start with us could do him good. He has been talked up by laidley after he left the power as the most naturally talented player on there list. For what ever reason he hasn't reached the level at Port hopefully he could with us. I would give our first and cey in exchange for Hartlett and a 2nd round pick back from the power

Injury plagued and is demanding huge coin. Not convinced.