List Mgmt. 2016 Trade and Free Agency Targets Part 1

[bird_man]

Did WHE sin a contract extension last year?

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

What about some of the Bulldogs young mids? IIRC wasn't Brian sure Nathan Hrovat was on his way to us last trade period....

 

[Cabba]

Did WHE sin a contract extension last year?

Signed a 2 year extension mid last year i believe.
Surely not getting a game at the moment would be making him look elsewhere, i really hope we are in his ear. Really dynamic player that would add heaps to our outside run and forward line with his hieght, speed and overhead marking.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

thats exactly right find the fringe gems there out there.

Freeman could be good, worth the gamble for sure.

Recent trades that have potential to be excellent value are:
Freeman for a second round pick.
Kennedy ( and a second rounder ) for Toumpas and Howe
Kerridge + Pick 28 for Troy Menzel
Greenwood for pick 25

 

[gringo2011]

What about some of the Bulldogs young mids? IIRC wasn't Brian sure Nathan Hrovat was on his way to us last trade period....

Sydney has been given that many good mids from FS and the academy they won't be able to fit them all. Zac Jones or someone might get pushed out.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Scenario.... hickey plays all year like round 1. Forward line is cemented with paddy, bruce(resting ruck) and hickey for bigmen. Richmond put pick 11 on the table for Longer. Do we pull the trigger and enter the draft with picks 8 and 11? Albeit with little quality ruck stock in the reserves... pearce and holmes.

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The club believes Billy will be in top 2 rucks in league by time we are contending. You don't give up KPP/Rucks that you think will be elite, no matter how high the pick.
While Hickey's ruck work was first rate on Sunday I and others still believe Billy will be a better ruck by time it matters. If Hickey can play forward and be a dangerous third option behind Paddy and Bruce and back up Billy in ruck then we are well on our way to some success.
To trade Longer this year and have Holmes as our back up would be a disastrous move in my opinion.

 

[Defacto]

been stewing on this after watching us vs dogs prelim 09 and some highlights from 04 prelim vs port, its made me think about how this rebuild is going compared to other sides

i feel like we might not be as strong list/talent wise as that group in 04 and 09. i feel like the doggies are more like we were in 04 right now. so much x factor talent with a good mix of older players. GWS stocked with really top end talent, could be a WCE or maybe a brisbane or maybe they will be like us in 04 as well. time will tell.

but the point i wanted to make is i feel like our rebuild might be more like sydney 05-06, where if we are to win a flag, we will have to pinch one from a much more talented side, through better systems and endeavour. i just dont feel like our talent is as good as GWS and the dogs and i dont think we will have enough currency to work with to surpass them in that regard, unless something drastic happens.

the only thing i could see changing that is if we somehow manage to get ahead by very smart cap work + free agency/OOC pick ups, but i cant see there being enough there to change that

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

been stewing on this after watching us vs dogs prelim 09 and some highlights from 04 prelim vs port, its made me think about how this rebuild is going compared to other sides

i feel like we might not be as strong list/talent wise as that group in 04 and 09. i feel like the doggies are more like we were in 04 right now. so much x factor talent with a good mix of older players. GWS stocked with really top end talent, could be a WCE or maybe a brisbane or maybe they will be like us in 04 as well. time will tell.

but the point i wanted to make is i feel like our rebuild might be more like sydney 05-06, where if we are to win a flag, we will have to pinch one from a much more talented side, through better systems and endeavour. i just dont feel like our talent is as good as GWS and the dogs and i dont think we will have enough currency to work with to surpass them in that regard, unless something drastic happens.

the only thing i could see changing that is if we somehow manage to get ahead by very smart cap work + free agency/OOC pick ups, but i cant see there being enough there to change that

Name me the Dogs KPF stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs KPD stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs Rucks. Name ours.
When you do that it becomes obvious that we are building a 22 that will stand up to finals footy.

 

[Cannavaro20]

Name me the Dogs KPF stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs KPD stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs Rucks. Name ours.
When you do that it becomes obvious that we are building a 22 that will stand up to finals footy.

I also think the dogs are way too reliant on boyd, morris and murphy who are all 34 this year... plus they have a mill handicap in tom boyd.

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[Cannavaro20]

The club believes Billy will be in top 2 rucks in league by time we are contending. You don't give up KPP/Rucks that you think will be elite, no matter how high the pick.
While Hickey's ruck work was first rate on Sunday I and others still believe Billy will be a better ruck by time it matters. If Hickey can play forward and be a dangerous third option behind Paddy and Bruce and back up Billy in ruck then we are well on our way to some success.
To trade Longer this year and have Holmes as our back up would be a disastrous move in my opinion.

Thanks for the insight and I agree with your point that you dont trade young talent for picks...do you think a side can work with hickey, longer, paddy and bruce... i.e. thats not too tall??

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[Barrels]

Name me the Dogs KPF stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs KPD stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs Rucks. Name ours.
When you do that it becomes obvious that we are building a 22 that will stand up to finals footy.

I'll bite (leaving out Riewoldt and Fisher due to age concerns);

KPFs
Us: Bruce, McCartin, Membrey.
Them: Stringer, Boyd, Redpath.

KPDs
Us: Carlisle, Goddard, Coughlan, Lee, Delaney.
Them: Adams, Collins, Roberts.

Maybe we have them overall, but their young midfield is a fair distance ahead of ours presently; observe...

Mids (under 28)
Us: Steven, Armitage, Ross, Dunstan, Weller, Billings, Newnes, Sinclair, Freeman, Gresham, Acres, Curren, Minchington, Lonie, O'Kearney, Saunders.

Them: Bontempelli, Liberatore, Stevens, Wallis, Hunter, Macrae, Honeychurch, Hrovat, Jong, Daniel, Smith, Hamilton, Dale, Dunkley, Williams.

 

[Cabba]

been stewing on this after watching us vs dogs prelim 09 and some highlights from 04 prelim vs port, its made me think about how this rebuild is going compared to other sides

i feel like we might not be as strong list/talent wise as that group in 04 and 09. i feel like the doggies are more like we were in 04 right now. so much x factor talent with a good mix of older players. GWS stocked with really top end talent, could be a WCE or maybe a brisbane or maybe they will be like us in 04 as well. time will tell.

but the point i wanted to make is i feel like our rebuild might be more like sydney 05-06, where if we are to win a flag, we will have to pinch one from a much more talented side, through better systems and endeavour. i just dont feel like our talent is as good as GWS and the dogs and i dont think we will have enough currency to work with to surpass them in that regard, unless something drastic happens.

the only thing i could see changing that is if we somehow manage to get ahead by very smart cap work + free agency/OOC pick ups, but i cant see there being enough there to change that

I see the point you are making and i agree to some extent. But the plan all along was to draft in top end talent until 2018, target free agents and be aggressive with our trading. So realistically we should get in 2-3 top 10 draft picks and hopefully land a big free agent in the next 2 seasons.
Also forgetting we have jake carlisle in next year who is an elite player and nath freeman who could potentially be elite. I see the comparison to us and the bulldogs who both have talented lists but our talent coming through is younger then theirs. The bulldogs have risen up the ladder already so probably wont have access to top 10 draft picks in the near future like i expect us to. Some of our best players to take us into our next finals series may not be drafted yet

 

[Cabba]

I know this is probably the wrong thread but just on us and the Bulldogs. We seem to be creating abit of a rivalry in recent years and with both teams having good young lists we should have many good battles in years to come. Perhaps us and the bulldogs could potentially have a "rivalry" game (like a showdown, cats vs hawks, anzac game) held on good friday. I know the afl is looking at creating a regular good friday game and i think it would be a great idea to have us v bulldogs

 

[Verdun]

I know this is probably the wrong thread but just on us and the Bulldogs. We seem to be creating abit of a rivalry in recent years and with both teams having good young lists we should have many good battles in years to come. Perhaps us and the bulldogs could potentially have a "rivalry" game (like a showdown, cats vs hawks, anzac game) held on good friday. I know the afl is looking at creating a regular good friday game and i think it would be a great idea to have us v bulldogs

Sounds good - also like the idea of Saints v Demons on Good Friday

 

[Cabba]

Sounds good - also like the idea of Saints v Demons on Good Friday

Either would be a good choice. It would just be great for the club to feature on the big stage in a big annual game infront of a big crowd, most clubs have one but we dont

 

[Barrels]

I know this is probably the wrong thread but just on us and the Bulldogs. We seem to be creating abit of a rivalry in recent years and with both teams having good young lists we should have many good battles in years to come. Perhaps us and the bulldogs could potentially have a "rivalry" game (like a showdown, cats vs hawks, anzac game) held on good friday. I know the afl is looking at creating a regular good friday game and i think it would be a great idea to have us v bulldogs

Sounds good - also like the idea of Saints v Demons on Good Friday

Come on now... You know it'll involve Collingwood if it happens...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Come on now... You know it'll involve Collingwood if it happens...

I know.
And I also know:
a) They think all theses "special games" are massive blockbusters.
b) I don't give a toss about them, because they involve teams I'm either ambivalent towards or despise.

If they happen to involve 2 teams who are vying for a top of the ladder spot, well yeah, but if its Richmond vs Essendon anytime during the past decade i have no interest over and above my footy tips and supercoach.

 

[Mowman]

The club believes Billy will be in top 2 rucks in league by time we are contending. You don't give up KPP/Rucks that you think will be elite, no matter how high the pick.
While Hickey's ruck work was first rate on Sunday I and others still believe Billy will be a better ruck by time it matters. If Hickey can play forward and be a dangerous third option behind Paddy and Bruce and back up Billy in ruck then we are well on our way to some success.
To trade Longer this year and have Holmes as our back up would be a disastrous move in my opinion.

+10000, Billy will be a beast for us for years to come

 

[gringo2011]

Name me the Dogs KPF stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs KPD stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs Rucks. Name ours.
When you do that it becomes obvious that we are building a 22 that will stand up to finals footy.

To me it looks like there is a fashion emerging for KP stocks being less regarded as a spread of quality mids. A lot of clubs score heavily from several players of differing sizes compared to one Nick Riewoldt type who scores a huge percentage of goals for his team. dogs, Collingwood and Dee's all seem to be going for a running game style. It seems to me just having rudimentary kPs and using a keepings Off game plan is what they are after. Anyway I hope we go back to the plan of a draft lead list build. Freeman and Carlisle haven't really been a huge bonus yet compared to using the draft to get good players in.

 

[plugger66]

Name me the Dogs KPF stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs KPD stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs Rucks. Name ours.
When you do that it becomes obvious that we are building a 22 that will stand up to finals footy.

If the goes go that way you could be right. I'm of the opinion the game is more and more about mids and less and less about talls. I expect in 2 to 3 years time no team having more than one ruckman and 4 KPP in a side and the rest will be basically on ballers who can play back and forward. If it goes that way the WB are set. Anyway we need to win before we worry about them.

 

[plugger66]

+10000, Billy will be a beast for us for years to come

Well that means Hickey wont.

 

[Mowman]

Well that means Hickey wont.

Different sort of ruckman in my opinion, I can see them working well together

 

[plugger66]

Different sort of ruckman in my opinion, I can see them working well together well

I would love to know how. Hickey at the moment is a good ruckman and good around the ground and a very average forward, Longer is a good tap ruckman, not great round the ground and completely no good as a forward. This is one position where it seems people are split 50/50. I think Hickey will always be the better ruckman the way footy is played today. Other think Longer will be the better ruckman. The one thing I cant see is both of them successfully playing together. What sides have 2 good ruckmen on their list?

 

[Cadillac]

I also think the dogs are way too reliant on boyd, morris and murphy who are all 34 this year... plus they have a mill handicap in tom boyd.

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That was definitely an emphasis the club has focused on and have developed half back flankers Johannisen and Biggs to take over from murphy and Boyd. Both those youngsters had 35 touches on Sunday. I definitely feel the club will phase out Boyd this year by replacing him with Bailey Dale or Lucas Webb who made their debut last year that are run and carry defenders.

Apologies for posting on this thread. I find list management a fantastic topic of discussion.

 

[Defacto]

Name me the Dogs KPF stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs KPD stocks. Name ours. Name Dogs Rucks. Name ours.
When you do that it becomes obvious that we are building a 22 that will stand up to finals footy.

bar bruce there probably isnt much difference in the KPP stocks. they're all still a relatively unknown quantity. that is of course if you are excluding bontempelli and stringer from that list, which i would agree with. however, if they start hitting the score board hard, one could argue a reason for the KPF not being such a major concern

now people will probably bring up carlisle in this discussion but we are still yet to see how he goes

i also think what we will see with the dogs is they will target a ruckman and KPD in the next off-season to help fill that void

the issue i see he is the dogs are absolute stocked with talent, if we are aiming for finals next year, our draft position wont be that far off theirs, so its not like we will be banking absolutely top end picks whilst they are towards the end of the first round, its also under the proviso they dont trade some of their talent depth out for more high end picks

I see the point you are making and i agree to some extent. But the plan all along was to draft in top end talent until 2018, target free agents and be aggressive with our trading. So realistically we should get in 2-3 top 10 draft picks and hopefully land a big free agent in the next 2 seasons.
Also forgetting we have jake carlisle in next year who is an elite player and nath freeman who could potentially be elite. I see the comparison to us and the bulldogs who both have talented lists but our talent coming through is younger then theirs. The bulldogs have risen up the ladder already so probably wont have access to top 10 draft picks in the near future like i expect us to. Some of our best players to take us into our next finals series may not be drafted yet

i see where you are coming from, but my worry here is under the clubs timeline, we make the 8 next year, which unless i am wrong would probably push us out of contention for more top 10 picks

like you though, i think we need more top end talent inside probably the top 6 picks, or we picking up more top end talent through OOC/FA players

If the goes go that way you could be right. I'm of the opinion the game is more and more about mids and less and less about talls. I expect in 2 to 3 years time no team having more than one ruckman and 4 KPP in a side and the rest will be basically on ballers who can play back and forward. If it goes that way the WB are set. Anyway we need to win before we worry about them.

this is the major concern for me. we dont have a midfield that can take us to a flag. its so far behind the likes of the dogs and GWS that we just have too much ground to make up. unless something drastic changes