Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Nori]

I'd debate that at AFL level. If he struggled in the Hawthorn system with a side looking to bring through young talent then he has real weaknesses. His poor ball use under pressure and his lack of defence are big issues that can't be overlooked.

Agreed. Hawthorn badly needed Hartung to step up after Hill left and he just wasn't up to to it.

 

[Soapy V]

If someone offered me the draft order listed, but I had to flip a coin where I've picked two options, I'd shake their hand and take the deal.

As it stands I'm sure Port, Freo and West Coast will see to it that Hayden and Kreuger aren't on the board before we get another pick.

My dream scenario is

3 - Rayner
10 - LDU
30 - Cerra
73 - Clark

 

[Carl]

Every team will always have players some would like to call list-cloggers. There's simply no getting away from it.

6 or 7? That's great, as it means we have 37-38 ready to go best 22. Wooooohoooooooo

Problem is half of the 38 players are under 22. Most of them aren't AFL standard players at this stage of their career. Sorry to disappoint you. Still 2-3 years away from finals.

 

[ferrisb]

Keuz a stretch Pickett a hope as per Kennedy,jones no but hopefully backs up from this year.

Kreuzer made AA squad this year, and was a bee's privates away from being the best ruckman in the league.

Reckon that makes him at least borderline elite (based off this year).

 

[Carl]

One. year. deal.

Said it a few times now.

I hear you. But even on our shit list he would be lucky to be in the top 30 players. Prefer to give a young kid a go and see how he goes in an AFL system. Sydney have built nearly an entire back line on rookie picks.

When you have a list of only 44 players, every spot counts. From my point of view Hartung is not AFL standard and that's why i wouldn't pick him up.

 

[zeeCFC]

3 - LDU
10 - Bonar/D.Fogarty
30 - L.Fogarty/Patmore
72 (in the current order) - Kyron Hayden
6th round pick - Amartey/Kreuger
7th round pick (next pick) - Sambono

you'd be using national draft picks in the 7th round?

 

[Jimmae]

you'd be using national draft picks in the 7th round?

As far as I know, we're the only ones set to have live picks in the 7th and 8th rounds, so they're effectively back to back at the bottom of the 5th round. From what I've seen (so assume the breadth of talent stretches farther), there's 70+ names I'd be happy to bring onto our senior list all else being equal, so between academy bids and passes I'm confident that we can harvest the best of what's left before the rookie draft.

Hayden, Sambono, Kreuger and Amartey are all 2+ year investments, and I think Hayden and Kreuger could play AFL in 2018 if required.

If you look on the draft machine list, the names not marked 'smokey' number exactly 60, of which I'd knock 4 out of the running for the national draft, so we're hoping to have a crack at about 10 and 20 names further on than that.

Fingers crossed some of the WA and SA prospects are underrated compared to the TAC 3rd string, but as I mentioned there's WC, Port, Collingwood and Freo sitting there with 10 picks in the 19 selections before our late 4th rounder, and then we've got Freo potentially having two live picks in the 5th round as well.

I don't see Hayden or Kreuger making it to us, but Amartey and Sambono should be there, and there will be value on the board at 72, or whatever it is now.

EDIT: 7th & 8th rounds, not 6th and 7th, though likely every club with a 6th round pick will pass or have it absorbed in an academy bid.

 

[HARKER]

Problem is half of the 38 players are under 22. Most of them aren't AFL standard players at this stage of their career. Sorry to disappoint you. Still 2-3 years away from finals.

Just catering to your point, which had little to do with any discussion of finals.
Every year, every club, will clear players that 'fans' care to call list cloggers.
Sorry to disappoint you, because there will always be players that will need to be cleared off lists. That's the game and even premiers will have to do so.

 

[zeeCFC]

As far as I know, we're the only ones set to have live picks in the 6th and 7th rounds, so they're effectively back to back at the bottom of the 5th round. From what I've seen (so assume the breadth of talent stretches farther), there's 70+ names I'd be happy to bring onto our senior list all else being equal, so between academy bids and passes I'm confident that we can harvest the best of what's left before the rookie draft.

Hayden, Sambono, Kreuger and Amartey are all 2+ year investments, and I think Hayden and Kreuger could play AFL in 2018 if required.

If you look on the draft machine list, the names not marked 'smokey' number exactly 60, of which I'd knock 4 out of the running for the national draft, so we're hoping to have a crack at about 10 and 20 names further on than that.

Fingers crossed some of the WA and SA prospects are underrated compared to the TAC 3rd string, but as I mentioned there's WC, Port, Collingwood and Freo sitting there with 10 picks in the 19 selections before our late 4th rounder, and then we've got Freo potentially having two live picks in the 5th round as well.

I don't see Hayden or Kreuger making it to us, but Amartey and Sambono should be there, and there will be value on the board at 72, or whatever it is now.

I'd be shocked if we took a pick after 73. Think you're overrating the talent and how deep the draft goes. With the new rules around rookie players and our salary cap position I tip we'll go 38/6 or 39/5...simply smarter list management to only offer the one year and get the same eligibility to play.

 

[Jimmae]

I'd be shocked if we took a pick after 73. Think you're overrating the talent and how deep the draft goes. With the new rules around rookie players and our salary cap position I tip we'll go 38/6 or 39/5...simply smarter list management to only offer the one year and get the same eligibility to play.

It'll very much to come down to who is still on the board, but I'd happily make the two year investment in the kids I've named. Going off this thread, the worst case scenario is that they're the 84th and 85th players in the pool.

Regarding the TPP, if anything we're desperate to meet minimum, with Murphy unlikely to get a bigger contract going forward.

 

[1981]

I believe I heard a month or two back this draft was felt to only have about 35 decent prospects

 

[Coona Blues]

I'd be shocked if we took a pick after 73. Think you're overrating the talent and how deep the draft goes. With the new rules around rookie players and our salary cap position I tip we'll go 38/6 or 39/5...simply smarter list management to only offer the one year and get the same eligibility to play.

TPP not an issue, so simply put, why don't we take the boys we want at the first opportunity, as opposed to taking
Rookie picks #3, #21 & #39 (or thereabouts).
Strongly rumoured of us "rookieing" O'Shea, if we are going to take him, as a known quantity, stands to reason that
we would be happy to take him for two years (obviously creates questions as to tenure of Rowe, ASOS & JGM) as
opposed to risking missing the player(s) we want.

 

[Moody Blue]

Interesting concept the idea of bringing in a confirmed and penalized drug cheat to the club. Would that mean we acquiesce his behaviour or does the fact he was banned from the game (and consequently missed the Dogs' flag) mean he starts with a fresh sheet. Will he wear invisible stripes (no not the Roos away strip) for the rest of his career. Are there some behaviours we simply feel are too repulsive to accept even when the perpetrator has been charged and sentenced ie, Stevens, Lovett, Ablett Snr etc.......Milne & Montagna the greyest of grey areas here.

Don't be too quick to judge others Reverend. Every club has skeletons, and Carlton has their fair share. However it is clear you and others are more concerned about the look of recruiting a drug cheat, who was following his clubs instructions and was assured it was legal. If we want climb up the ladder we need to kick more goals....Instead we are going to play around with the same formula that has failed for the past three years.

 

[thylacine60]

anyone?

 

[Moody Blue]

If you feel this way - and feel comfortable talking about a player this way - then I think I'm about done discussing this with you.

The last thing I will say is this; if you think that you're going to get another eight years of Casboult running around, you'd be point blank wrong. Harry McKay is the one who you should be looking at, as he plays Casboult's role as the hybrid ruck/forward. If he takes sufficient strides in terms of fitness, you could see him stepping into Cas's role inside next year; if not, it could take a year, which is coincidentally the length of Casboult's contracts for the last two years.

But then, pessimism is your thing, so if you think I'm being entirely too optimistic, that's fine too.

Harry will need at least 2 years to develop. He has been injured so he has missed a lot of footy and he needs games under his belt.. It's called being a realist, Leave it there and dream on.

 

[Moody Blue]

Grigg rucking in gf was hilarious
I’ve never seen that before
I’m sure it’s been done but not in gf
Anyways grigg is a premiership player now so good on him

No forward line as well, but they have a premiership cup. Footy is about being able to adapt on the day. Our forward structure is the worst in the competition.

 

[Arr0w]

Unless Hartung serves a purpose now based on his abilities as they are now then go to the draft.

You can’t recruit a Hartung on the hope that he is going to get better. The fact is he’s had plenty of opportunities to develop.

Best to put these developmental games into a fresh talent that could be a much better player.

Time will tell

 

[thylacine60]

Moods, why am I getting the feeling your weekend hasn't gone as you would have liked?

 

[ScottoP]

Can all 4 of jones, marchbank, plowman and weitering play defense together?

Carry on.

Wouldnt have thought so at the start of the year but they did well last season and Richmond play 4 players 192cm plus so it can work (we just need a shutdown small defender)

 

[blue healer]

People's ideal drafts?

Mine:

3 - Rayner
10 - Brayshaw
30 - Tim Kelly
73 - Jack Roughsedge

So in addition to having Roughheads we now have the possibility of having a Roughsedge in this years draft. Does Alfred E Neuman make up AFL names?

Looking forward to the future when we can add a Roughbottom to the AFL Role of Honour.

 

[Bluebag13]

Keuz a stretch Pickett a hope as per Kennedy,jones no but hopefully backs up from this year.

Kruez is an a grade player. He would be top 5 in his position


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[Weiterbot23]

Will we be having a crack at Sloane next year as a free agent?

 

[Bluebag13]

Will we be having a crack at Sloane next year as a free agent?

Give me shiel over Sloane anyday


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[thylacine60]

I believe I heard a month or two back this draft was felt to only have about 35 decent prospects

36

 

[katmanblue]

My dream scenario is

3 - Rayner
10 - LDU
30 - Cerra
73 - Clark

6th round Bonar
7th round Roughsedge

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