Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Cripps17]

It seems we're not in the race, but wonder if Bulldogs would favour a swap of #3 & #9 over say pick #11 from Bombers for Stringer.

We get a similar type to Rayner and maintain a top 10 pick. Would be a great outcome.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

It seems we're not in the race, but wonder if Bulldogs would favour a swap of #3 & #9 over say pick #11 from Bombers for Stringer.

We get a similar type to Rayner and maintain a top 10 pick. Would be a great outcome.

No thanks.

Any guy that needs his manager whispering in his ear on a televised radio show is not in the right place.

 

[HARKER]

It seems we're not in the race, but wonder if Bulldogs would favour a swap of #3 & #9 over say pick #11 from Bombers for Stringer.

We get a similar type to Rayner and maintain a top 10 pick. Would be a great outcome.

I know what you're getting at and it's far from silly.
All depends on whether we'd be a serious player for Stringer.

 

[LordLucifer]

Doubt Cameron would be traded, but was one of the players in the top 10 for salaries

Lever has already ruled out the Dogs

Think about it a little more Sir Arrow, what do GWS need badly and how has their forward structure performed in the finals ??

 

[BlackGoanna]

If we manage to get Smith, Kennedy and Rockcliff in the trade period or mids are looking pretty good even if we lose Gibbs. We'd then add those 3 boys with Cripps , P-Seton, Fisher , Cunningham, Curnow. Would this change our draft strategy with pick 3 ? Perhaps go for a key forward or outside runner like Stephenson?


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[Arr0w]

Think about it a little more Sir Arrow, what do GWS need badly and how has their forward structure performed in the finals ??

They would trade a Lobb and use Paton as a relief ruckman before trading a guy like Cameron, IMO.

Edited: Cameron has already shown that he too could play CHB

 

[Red Bull]

If we manage to get Smith, Kennedy and Rockcliff in the trade period or mids are looking pretty good even if we lose Gibbs. We'd then add those 3 boys with Cripps , P-Seton, Fisher , Cunningham, Curnow. Would this change our draft strategy with pick 3 ? Perhaps go for a key forward or outside runner like Stephenson?


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Gibbs to Adelaide for picks 17 (crows 1st) and 18 (via Bris for Cameron)
Picks 17 and 18 to GWS for Kennedy and Smith (possible later pick shuffle if required)
Rockliff via FA
Boekhorst for Ballic
Pick 3 (Rayner) ?

Byrne Jones Macreadie
Plowman Marchbank Docherty (C)
SPS Cripps (VC) Williamson
Silvagni Curnow Murphy
Pickett Weitering McKay

Kruezer Rockliff Smith

Kennedy Fisher Cuningham
Curnow Ballic Rayner

 

[LordLucifer]

They would trade a Lobb and use Paton as a relief ruckman before trading a guy like Cameron, IMO.

Edited: Cameron has already shown that he too could play CHB

That's the point, CHB is their Achilles heel at present, they have a brilliant midfield and a ripper forward-line even if it was to only revolve around Lobb & Patton. With Mumford back in the team, Lobb could go back forward. Also, if they win again this weekend and go on to win the flag without Cameron, they may see him as tradeable even though we all acknowledge that he is a really terrific player.

Jones would be a perfect addition to their playing list and is ready to "go" now, he is going to have to wait 3-4 years to see that sort of action with us and he probably hasn't got much more than that left in the game.

It didn't seem to hurt the Hawks after Franklin left either.

 

[Cliffords Blues]

Don't know much about him, but as a young midfielder type, we'd surely take a look.

Love this kid.
Really hope we pick him up.
Can play.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Killing it tonight LL.

Me, I'm giving the Carlton Dry's a training run.

Opinion, rumour & bullshit.

You know the rest.

 

[Arr0w]

That's the point, CHB is their Achilles heel at present, they have a brilliant midfield and a ripper forward-line even if it was to only revolve around Lobb & Patton. With Mumford back in the team, Lobb could go back forward. Also, if they win again this weekend and go on to win the flag without Cameron, they may see him as tradeable even though we all acknowledge that he is a really terrific player.

Jones would be a perfect addition to their playing list and is ready to "go" now, he is going to have to wait 3-4 years to see that sort of action with us and he probably hasn't got much more than that left in the game.

It didn't seem to hurt the Hawks after Franklin left either.

Not saying it's not possible, just not probable. As I said, Cameron has already shown he can play as a KPD, so if GWS believe they are too top heavy in the forward line, they could move him back. If GWS were thinking of trading Cameron, a host of clubs would line up with valuable picks and players to secure his services

 

[Jabba73]

Mathew Kennedy & Jeremy Cameron to Carlton in exchange for #3 & Liam Jones.

Now, before you jump down my throat, have a read of that sentence a second time and then think through the reasons why it would be beneficial to both parties if it was to happen. Also factor in what has transpired in the finals for GWS thus far.

They definitely need a key defender more than a key forward. Would expect they would prefer to offload Patton more than Cameron as he is very one dimensional and Cameron can roam further upfield and is okay below his knees.

Idea has some merit, not sure if either club would be game to pull the trigger.

 

[Soapy V]

If we manage to get Smith, Kennedy and Rockcliff in the trade period or mids are looking pretty good even if we lose Gibbs. We'd then add those 3 boys with Cripps , P-Seton, Fisher , Cunningham, Curnow. Would this change our draft strategy with pick 3 ? Perhaps go for a key forward or outside runner like Stephenson?


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Balic and maybe Lang as well and I'd add LDU with pick 3. Fixes midfield

 

[LordLucifer]

Balic and maybe Lang as well and I'd add LDU with pick 3. Fixes midfield

Still not convinced that Smith is a player we "need" at the club especially as he wants to play in the midfield even though he has hardly played there thus far.

Another blue chip mid would still be needed even if we did land all of that lot.

 

[RudyBlue]

Every team hits the draft to some extent but both teams didn't just sit around and wait for those kids to come on and improve the side. That's what Melbourne done in the past. I think there comes a point where you have to stop sitting down the bottom and start trying to move up the ladder.
My worry is we have some bad luck (pick 3 ends up being an injury prone Trengove type) Trade Gibbs for pick 17 which is a 50/50 pick at best and he doesn't work out and Murphy, Kruezer start dropping off, Doc starts getting attention, injuries ect. We could easily be a bottom two side again with no real improvement. All of a sudden like North and St Kilda it doesn't matter how much cap space we have because no one will want to come and if they do it's only because we are over paying them. Four years in a row of not actually improving as a team (I know we are looking much better and are moving in the right direction) then all sudden we are back close to being a basket case.
I guess it just really shits me when people suggest something on here which isn't "load up on the kids" and gets smashed with "that's the old Carlton" or "you can't rush a rebuild" as if there is a set formula to success or how to build a list. Whatever path we take comes with risks and I'm just pointing out that ATM no successful team has gone down the exact path that most of the people on here are suggesting.

It's certainly a valid point of discussion and I definitely have a lot of respect for teams who are willing to remain competitive for as long as possible.

Let's say our moves this off-season look something like:
Out- Gibbs, 2018 2nd, 2017 4th
In- Rockliff, Smith, pick 13-17 and another later pick from ADL, Balic

Our 2018 best 22 could be:

B: Plowman Jones Marchbank
HB: Docherty Weitering Byrne
C: Williamson Cripps Simpson
HF: Silvagni C. Curnow Smith
F: Wright Casboult Pickett
Foll: Kreuzer Rockliff Murphy
I/C: E. Curnow SPS Fisher Cuningham/Pick 3/Balic

1st year players: 0-1
2nd year players: 3
3rd year players: 4
+ Marchbank, Pickett, Byrne who are 4th year or more- relatively inexperienced in games, mature physically.

I think that team could be competitive in most games (we have been for pretty much all of the Bolton era).

The only reason we haven't won more under Bolts is due from an inability to apply scoreboard pressure during our periods of dominance.

This will improve as our young forwards get more confident and improve their finishing skills + the likes of Murphy, Boekhorst (?), Williamson, Fisher, Byrne, Pickett, Smith (?) are given more freedom to take the game on and give us better looks at goal.

 

[Cripps17]

They definitely need a key defender more than a key forward. Would expect they would prefer to offload Patton more than Cameron as he is very one dimensional and Cameron can roam further upfield and is okay below his knees.

Idea has some merit, not sure if either club would be game to pull the trigger.

Cameron has tried to roam further up the field this year but has had little success at it. He's not a strong contested mark nor overly quick to offer much value in doing so.

Great player obviously but not sure he's worth pick #3 to us. Kennedy's performance on the weekend springs to mind as to what we may expect more than we'd like.

 

[LordLucifer]

Cameron has tried to roam further up the field this year but has had little success at it. He's not a strong contested mark nor overly quick to offer much value in doing so.

Great player obviously but not sure he's worth pick #3 to us. Kennedy's performance on the weekend springs to mind as to what we may expect more than we'd like.

A proven goal-kicking key forward with another 6-7 years left in the game isn't worth pick 3 to us ??

Sorry, but I cannot agree with that at all.

 

[Red Bull]

A proven goal-kicking key forward with another 6-7 years left in the game isn't worth pick 3 to us ??

Sorry, but I cannot agree with that at all.

The required 196cm ?

 

[Jabba73]

A proven goal-kicking key forward with another 6-7 years left in the game isn't worth pick 3 to us ??

Sorry, but I cannot agree with that at all.

Still reckon our midfield is where our attention should be. Fix that and a lot of problems elsewhere disappear.

 

[LordLucifer]

The required 196cm ?

and 94 kg too !!!

 

[LordLucifer]

Still reckon our midfield is where our attention should be. Fix that and a lot of problems elsewhere disappear.

I agree with you about the midfield but we have a number of areas to "fix" and it will take some time to achieve that goal so if there was an opportunity to pick up a player of Cameron's calibre then we would be crazy not to.

 

[Mondyboy]

Ah yes, the old Mick Mansfield rule.

I thought it was the Brent Heaver rule.


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[Stig O'Hara]

The required 196cm ?

Mandatory.

Blonde tips and bike shorts.

 

[SHOWEY]

That's the point, CHB is their Achilles heel at present, they have a brilliant midfield and a ripper forward-line even if it was to only revolve around Lobb & Patton. With Mumford back in the team, Lobb could go back forward. Also, if they win again this weekend and go on to win the flag without Cameron, they may see him as tradeable even though we all acknowledge that he is a really terrific player.

Jones would be a perfect addition to their playing list and is ready to "go" now, he is going to have to wait 3-4 years to see that sort of action with us and he probably hasn't got much more than that left in the game.

It didn't seem to hurt the Hawks after Franklin left either.

Jones has at least 10 years left in him
Think Dustin Fletcher

 

[Red Bull]

Mandatory.

Blonde tips and bike shorts.

And a booming torpedo punt kick !!