Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[ParapMarkets]

Hawthorn started to rebuild properly in 2004, they made finals by 2007.

Bulldogs started a rebuild in 2011, they made finals by 2015.

Collingwood hit bottom in 2005 and made finals the next year.

West Coast started a rebuild in 2000, they made finals by 2002.

Looking at the timeframe for successful teams, finals should absolutely be our goal for season 2019. That doesn't mean the trend can't be bucked but I feel many on here exaggerate how long a rebuild takes, wanting a perfect team of 22 All Australians even though every premiership team has had several role players. Teams that take longer the above seem to find themselves in perpetual rebuild mode.

Have there been any other teams that have won a premiership this century that actually went through a full rebuild?

 

[Matty411]

Hawthorn started to rebuild properly in 2004, they made finals by 2007.

Bulldogs started a rebuild in 2011, they made finals by 2015.

Collingwood hit bottom in 2005 and made finals the next year.

West Coast started a rebuild in 2000, they made finals by 2002.

Looking at the timeframe for successful teams, finals should absolutely be our goal for season 2019. That doesn't mean the trend can't be bucked but I feel many on here exaggerate how long a rebuild takes, wanting a perfect team of 22 All Australians even though every premiership team has had several role players. Teams that take longer the above seem to find themselves in perpetual rebuild mode.

Have there been any other teams that have won a premiership this century that actually went through a full rebuild?

It's been stated numerous times that "were a club in a hurry". So can't buy the 'slowly slowly' method some on here are selling. Will we make dumb decisions to risk doing things properly? No. Will we make decisions to get to where we need to go a little quicker (assuming the foundations are in place)? Yes we bloody will.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Doc said some positive things about Rockliff on Future Stars. Said whichever team ends up with him would be rapt to have him.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Reckon it would probabaly take a 4 year deal to entice Rockliff to join us.

Not an issue I would think. Front end the first 3 years and a much smaller wage for his final year. Would seem the smart move.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

If Melbourne offer Adelaide pick 10 & 27 for Lever to the crows would those 2 picks be enough to trade Gibbs?

We could use 27 for Kennedy & take 10 to the draft.

I'm actually leaning towards 2018 picks for GIbbs to be honest.

 

[Aphrodite]

Doc said some positive things about Rockliff on Future Stars. Said whichever team ends up with him would be rapt to have him.

"He's a gun player in our competition, especially in the contest. Anyone would be wrapt to have him" Docherty on @rockwiz38

 

[AB_Blue]

Aph you coming around re: Rocky?

 

[Metalcrusher]

Next she will be advocating getting Vikery as a DFA

 

[Aphrodite]

Next she will be advocating getting Vikery as a DFA

Never heard of him.

 

[Aphrodite]

Aph you coming around re: Rocky?

Still undecided.

Will let you know during the trade period.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Hawthorn started to rebuild properly in 2004, they made finals by 2007.

Bulldogs started a rebuild in 2011, they made finals by 2015.

Collingwood hit bottom in 2005 and made finals the next year.

West Coast started a rebuild in 2000, they made finals by 2002.

Looking at the timeframe for successful teams, finals should absolutely be our goal for season 2019. That doesn't mean the trend can't be bucked but I feel many on here exaggerate how long a rebuild takes, wanting a perfect team of 22 All Australians even though every premiership team has had several role players. Teams that take longer the above seem to find themselves in perpetual rebuild mode.

Have there been any other teams that have won a premiership this century that actually went through a full rebuild?

Agree entirely a good trade period and/or a couple free agents over 1 year 2 seasons can change the landscape considerably . Which after the next draft is what we will be aiming for .

 

[Funk]

Its has to be both without a doubt. Draft hard AND supplement the list with quality Trades. Why would you limit yourself to building depth only one way??? There are two ways to get players into Navy Blue ... we MUST use both to be successful and steadily climb up the ladder.

Agree.

It has to said that when the overall quality/depth of a list declines to the depths Carltons has - it's a bloody long climb back.

It's nigh impossible to climb up the ladder quickly using 1 x R1 and 1 x R2 pick each year - when every other club has the same.

SOS is very creative- and he has to be because we've got stuff all picks this year and few assets of any value (other than Gibbs) to trade.

We are going to have to get a lot of different aspects right to get to the "promised land".

Free Agents
Draft selections
Rookie selections
Father/Sons
Academy picks
Trades
DFA's

Then coach and develop well.

NB: I read an interview with Swans head recruiter this week - he said "we spend as much time on planning the rookie draft as we do on planning the main draft" - and look at the outcome!!!

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I seen on instagram Rockliffes partner just had a baby?? Any one who has had a newborn knows how important having the wife's parents close. Does anyone know if she is a Melbourne girl?

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

I seen on instagram Rockliffes partner just had a baby?? Any one who has had a newborn knows how important having the wife's parents close. Does anyone know if she is a Melbourne girl?

Think she's a QLD girl

 

[Funk]

Maybe i'm the only one concerned about our Ruck? We only have Kreuzer and Phillips atm, what happens if either or both get injured?

Answer is Liam the Beast Jones!!!

 

[Robertio]

LeBo.......................

I'll stick my neck out and say he will be a player.

 

[Robertio]

Agree.

It has to said that when the overall quality/depth of a list declines to the depths Carltons has - it's a bloody long climb back.

It's nigh impossible to climb up the ladder quickly using 1 x R1 and 1 x R2 pick each year - when every other club has the same.

SOS is very creative- and he has to be because we've got stuff all picks this year and few assets of any value (other than Gibbs) to trade.

We are going to have to get a lot of different aspects right to get to the "promised land".

Free Agents
Draft selections
Rookie selections
Father/Sons
Academy picks
Trades
DFA's

Then coach and develop well.

NB: I read an interview with Swans head recruiter this week - he said "we spend as much time on planning the rookie draft as we do on planning the main draft" - and look at the outcome!!!

Good post, we may use every one of those aspects this year.

 

[Cripps17]

It's nigh impossible to climb up the ladder quickly using 1 x R1 and 1 x R2 pick each year - when every other club has the same.

When you put it like that, it would make a lot of sense to have picks #1-10, and then start the order from pick #11 as per normal.

Picks #1 & #11 v Pick #28 for the premier actually sounds about right, gives bottom 10 teams more commodity to trade with etc.

 

[katmanblue]

By 2019 you'd also have Casboult, Phillips, Docherty, Kerridge, Lamb, Boekhorst, Plowman, Byrne, Graham over or nearing this age if they make it through.

It's a pretty tough ratio to hit.

Should hace been 25 and under at the start of 2019.

The three that are definite are Plowman, Byrne and Docherty. Who all fit the criteria. Doc is the oldest and he turns 26 in October if 2019.

Again its the goal but it might not be achievable.

 

[Pafloyul]

Caddy and Prestia were brought in after finishing 13th. Both have made a big difference in getting them up there

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

And we brought in Marchbank and Pickett when we were 14th and we await to see what happens but we also went to the draft.

 

[Funk]

What little success we've had in the last few years is because we've finally bitten the bullet and realised we had a broken list and set about to fix it. We are only about two thirds of the way through and even then we'll still need to continue to polish things off. I don't know why a few on here are determined to create a conflict between the need to get our list right and the need to win a few extra games. Richmond, for one, created its own elite player and I don't see a problem in a subtle approach to list management.

Optimistic!
I reckon we're barely half way through fixing a broken list.

 

[1981]

I laugh at all the Adel fans who laugh when we say we should get the 10 they get for Lever. IIRC a pick around 10 was the starting point in BG talks last year. We wanted that pick and a quality kid and Adel said No to that demand, but it was always implied Adel were happy to offload the pick. So there's no reason in my mind why things would change now. Ten would be on the table. The issue would be what else we want and if Adel cough that up. I'd imagine we would ask for 10 and 17 or 10 and a quality kid and Adel would knock both back and in the end maybe we accept 10 and their second rounder. Gibbs for 17 is a joke.

 

[Wolfe67]

usually only more a reader here but thought if no one has posted
if we wanted to look at a mature Mid from VFL maybe look at Matt Hanson
3rd in liston medal this year passed over in 3 draft attempts told to improve his game and was the leading clearance player in the VFL

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...l/news-story/3ac6e30f2ccbef0d279fb5005f0f27f9

 

[HARKER]

usually only more a reader here but thought if no one has posted
if we wanted to look at a mature Mid from VFL maybe look at Matt Hanson
3rd in liston medal this year passed over in 3 draft attempts told to improve his game and was the leading clearance player in the VFL

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...l/news-story/3ac6e30f2ccbef0d279fb5005f0f27f9

Our dearly departed mate SinCity, had been banging on about him three years ago.

 

[Pafloyul]

Optimistic!
I reckon we're barely half way through fixing a broken list.

Well, I'm being diplomatic to make a point. A lot could still go wrong or right, no need to overload on players from other clubs and only leave our first selection as effectively our only draft target (if that).