List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

[gringo2011]

Yeah I understand your point but I don't think Tyson was ever at the level Kelly is at IMO and that is AA. Either way there are no guarantees of success in picking and trading. As has been said before you can give examples to support most arguments one way or another. One thing is for sure if you get Kelly you have someone in the best handfull of players in the league.

Tyson was a strong and aggressive ball winner but he had or has nowhere near the skill, talent and game changing ability that Kelly has. Have no idea whether we'll get him or not but we'd be abslute fools if we didn't put as much as we can into getting him.

Yeah, I know he's better, I'm just pointing out that fast tracking yourself barely ever works out.

 

[Rors]

I love these guys but I just want to move away from the past & look to the future.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I love these guys but I just want to move away from the past & look to the future.

Agree, I don't think Lenny would have it in him to say the contrary anyway

 

[Mowman]

Two 1st round picks for Kelly and we get Lenny back

 

[Rors]

Agree, I don't think Lenny would have it in him to say the contrary anyway

The romantics love the idea of them both playing on. I hate it. Roo I can understand as regardless of his position, he's a game changer, but will the knee hold up. Joey just looks like a liability. Sure he's great with ball in hand offensively, but defensively he's got nothing these days & given he's down back, it's not good

 

[Jade Buddha]

Yeah, I know he's better, I'm just pointing out that fast tracking yourself barely ever works out.

Not sure it's fast tracking, just being smart when the best players become available. Boyd to dogs is an example.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

He would wanna be , Josh will be paid more than our entire midfield.

More than any stkilda player in our history.

 

[VDS66]

Yeah I understand your point but I don't think Tyson was ever at the level Kelly is at IMO and that is AA. Either way there are no guarantees of success in picking and trading. As has been said before you can give examples to support most arguments one way or another. One thing is for sure if you get Kelly you have someone in the best handfull of players in the league.

Tyson was a strong and aggressive ball winner but he had or has nowhere near the skill, talent and game changing ability that Kelly has. Have no idea whether we'll get him or not but we'd be abslute fools if we didn't put as much as we can into getting him.

Paul Roos said at the time, they needed to bolster their midfield immediately, instead of drafting a kid. They knew the cost, but at that time, 2 players were better than one.

The analogy here is passing up on a Mercedes for two Commodores... if you need 2 cars now, the Mercedes isn't going to solve the problem.

Easy for us to look back and judge the deal.

From our perspective, we already have a few Commodores.

 

[VDS66]

Not sure it's fast tracking, just being smart when the best players become available. Boyd to dogs is an example.

What annoys me about this debate is that people think it's one way or the other.

It's almost as if people are saying that our current crop will flat line, so no point getting Kelly because he won't win you a flag.

This is flawed logic. Internal improvement + Kelly = exponential improvement next year.

But as you say, get them when you can.

Does anyone think pick 5 was a waste on Jake, now?

Back then the argument was don't give away pick 5 because we can get Hooker for less when he becomes ooc.

It just doesn't happen that way, unless you have an iron-clad commitment that a player will come once his current contract is up.

 

[Saint Watto]

We have made some woeful contract decisions lately

I have to say that the contract extension dates for Pierce,Wright and Armo surprises me...to say the least.

I wasn't aware of those dates.

 

[Joffaboy]

But VDS BF is the perfect world of linear straw man arguments where everything falls into place and where every simpleton is a draft and recruiting guru.

 

[Significant]

My prefered?

- Fyfe as an FA (talent is talent, new scenery will do him good)
- STK 1st 2017 and STK 1st 2018 for Kelly and STK 2nd 2017
- Dunstan and STK 2nd 2017 for Lever
- Trade Hickey for a 2nd 2018
- Delist Holmes/Pierce
- Retire Dempster, Montagna
- Draft Davies-Uniake (HAW 1st), Naughton/Best Available (STK 3rd), Upgrade Marshall (NM 3rd)
- Rookie Holmes

In: Fyfe, Kelly, Lever, Davies-Uniake, Naughton, Marshall
Out: Dunstan, Hickey, Holmes (rerookie), Pierce, Dempster, Montagna

1ST 22

FB: Geary, Brown, Lever
HB: Webster, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Riewoldt, Ross, Kelly
R: Longer, Steven, Fyfe
HF: Billings, McCartin, Mav
FF: Gresham, Bruce, Membrey
IC: Acres, Newnes, Gilbert, Stevens

2ND 22

FB: Rice, Naughton, Savage
HB: White, Coughlan, McKenzie
C: Freeman, Steele, Sinclair
R: Holmes, Armitage, Davies-Uniake
HF: Lonie, Marshall, Battle
FF: Long, Goddard, Minchington
IC: OKearney, Wright, Phillips, Joyce, Connellan

 

[Rors]

But VDS BF is the perfect world of linear straw man arguments where everything falls into place and where every simpleton is a draft and recruiting guru.

Yep. Even blokes like you and I are geniuses here

 

[Rors]

My prefered?

- Fyfe as an FA (talent is talent, new scenery will do him good)
- STK 1st 2017 and STK 1st 2018 for Kelly and STK 2nd 2017
- Dunstan and STK 2nd 2017 for Lever
- Trade Hickey for a 2nd 2018
- Delist Holmes/Pierce
- Retire Dempster, Montagna
- Draft Davies-Uniake (HAW 1st), Naughton/Best Available (STK 3rd), Upgrade Marshall (NM 3rd)
- Rookie Holmes

In: Fyfe, Kelly, Lever, Davies-Uniake, Naughton, Marshall
Out: Dunstan, Hickey, Holmes (rerookie), Pierce, Dempster, Montagna

1ST 22

FB: Geary, Brown, Lever
HB: Webster, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Riewoldt, Ross, Kelly
R: Longer, Steven, Fyfe
HF: Billings, McCartin, Mav
FF: Gresham, Bruce, Membrey
IC: Acres, Newnes, Gilbert, Stevens

2ND 22

FB: Rice, Naughton, Savage
HB: White, Coughlan, McKenzie
C: Freeman, Steele, Sinclair
R: Holmes, Armitage, Davies-Uniake
HF: Lonie, Marshall, Battle
FF: Long, Goddard, Minchington
IC: OKearney, Wright, Phillips, Joyce, Connellan

We'd be moving Pierce to rookie list & delisting Holmes. Pierce is contracted for 2018

 

[Premium]

We have made some woeful contract decisions lately.

not as bad as the pies getting Mayne

 

[JG22]

Big ask but doable:
-Fyfe : Free Agent
-Martin: Free Agent
-Kelly: StKildas 2017+2018 1st
-Lever: Dunstan and a 2nd
-May: Armo and a 3rd
-Whitfield Hawthorns 1st
-Hopper Hawthorns 1st
-Haynes Hawthorns 1st
-Mzungu Hawthorns 1st
-Zaharakis: Free Agent
-Rockliff: Free Agent
-Rance: Lonie and Holmes
-Shiel: Mzungu

IN: Fyfe, Martin, Kelly, Lever, May, Whitfield, Hopper, Haynes, Mzungu, Zaharakis, Rockliff, Rance, Shiel.

OUT: Dunstan, Armitage, Lonie, Holmes, Mzungu, Joey, JBT, Gilbert, Roo, Dempster, Wright, Pierce, Savage,

GET IT DONE AMEET!!1

 

[freebloke]

My prefered?

- Fyfe as an FA (talent is talent, new scenery will do him good)
- STK 1st 2017 and STK 1st 2018 for Kelly and STK 2nd 2017
- Dunstan and STK 2nd 2017 for Lever
- Trade Hickey for a 2nd 2018
- Delist Holmes/Pierce
- Retire Dempster, Montagna
- Draft Davies-Uniake (HAW 1st), Naughton/Best Available (STK 3rd), Upgrade Marshall (NM 3rd)
- Rookie Holmes

In: Fyfe, Kelly, Lever, Davies-Uniake, Naughton, Marshall
Out: Dunstan, Hickey, Holmes (rerookie), Pierce, Dempster, Montagna

1ST 22

FB: Geary, Brown, Lever
HB: Webster, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Riewoldt, Ross, Kelly
R: Longer, Steven, Fyfe
HF: Billings, McCartin, Mav
FF: Gresham, Bruce, Membrey
IC: Acres, Newnes, Gilbert, Stevens

2ND 22

FB: Rice, Naughton, Savage
HB: White, Coughlan, McKenzie
C: Freeman, Steele, Sinclair
R: Holmes, Armitage, Davies-Uniake
HF: Lonie, Marshall, Battle
FF: Long, Goddard, Minchington
IC: OKearney, Wright, Phillips, Joyce, Connellan

Saints don't have 2017 2nd rounder. Was traded for Steele. Also NM fourth pick not third.

 

[can coach]

For Kelly I'd offer our first this year and future first pick (both picks 10ish). While holding onto hawks pick this year(2-5) to pick up the best young mid at the draft.

Our big free agent coup my have to wait till 2018. As I can't see dusty leaving the tigers but would love him. Rockcliff would be handy also. Clearance beast and I think if was able to play more forward would be a dangerous match up, very good one on one player.

 

[freebloke]

I just think things haven't worked out well.

McCartin - I'd hate to say it won't be like Hawkins. Close, but, not enough given his goalkicking woes. Like Longer's around the ground work, his goalkicking is a big chink in the armour. Hickey's been done with the 3rd man rule.

Goddard has had injuries, and even pre-injuries didn't look like a fast full back type. So, not a Brown replacement, in 2 years when Brown is cooked.

McKenzie hasn't shown enough signs.

Billings is more of a cherry on top finisher rather than a dynamic mid.

So yeah, 2020 would be a better target than 2018, as this team isn't ready enough. A lot more holes than just 1-2 star mids.

 

[Mowman]

We aren't getting Lever for a 2nd rounder and Dunstan not even close, Pies will give up Grundy and 1st as a minimum

 

[bergholt]

- Dunstan and STK 2nd 2017 for Lever

Why would the Crows possibly do that? Dunstan wouldn't get a game for them, Lever's a future AA and was originally pick 14. Surely he's a top 10 pick at minimum.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Picks 2 & 7 for Kelly.... Surely we'd get some sort of 'steaknives' back? Kelly is a deadset gun, but that deal needs just a little something back to us.

Pick 25 or 26 coming back would be a stretch, as would hoping for Hopper, Kennedy or Himmelberg.

If we threw in our 3rd as well, I'd say we could be a chance to get pick 26 back

2 & 7 for one gun. No thanks. We need those two picks to be two potential guns not just the one gun. We need to gamble somewhat or get left back at the pack & become another Ninthmond or Lolnorf. I'd want Matt Kennedy or Jacob Hopper thrown in or pick 2 alone (possibly a late pick thrown in as well) for Kelly. Then take 7 to the draft.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Can't believe you are currently in line to get pick 2 overall as part of your hawks deal.

I find that hilarious, there's no way you would give up pick 2 for Jäger in a straight swap any, plus everything else you got, best deal of all time.

 

[Weiterbot23]

2 & 7 for one gun. No thanks. We need those two picks to be two potential guns not just the one gun. We need to gamble somewhat or get left back at the pack & become another Ninthmond or Lolnorf. I'd want Matt Kennedy or Jacob Hopper thrown in or pick 2 alone (possibly a late pick thrown in as well) for Kelly. Then take 7 to the draft.

You want Kelly (former pick 2 who is emerging as a superstar) and Hopper (rated best player in his draft by Emma Quayle) for pick 2?

 

[Glen Buterol]

You want Kelly (former pick 2 who is emerging as a superstar) and Hopper (rated best player in his draft by Emma Quayle) for pick 2?

I would love it but that's not what I said. I said Kennedy or hopper thrown in with Kelly for pick 2 AND 7 or pick 2 ALONE for Kelly.

Anyway, I think you're lost, go back to your own board if you are going to come here and be argumentative.