Preview 2018 1st Qualifying Final: Richmond v Hawthorn, 6 September 2018, 7.20pm @ MCG

[Walshawk]

Without knowing his injury status, Birchall couldn't have played for BHH yesterday as he was ineligible.

The VFL Finals Eligibility Regulations state:


For those hoping James Sicily would play a half, he was deemed ineligible too due to:

and


The VFL have the power to override the regulations on application from the club, so I would imagine that Hawthorn and BHH decided to lodge an eligibility application for only one of Dan Howe and James Sicily knowing applying for both would have been rejected.

There was also the Kaiden Brand & Teia Miles applications for eligibility they were applying for too considering both were eligible on the above (a) clause, but made ineligible because of:

Rule 20g overrides the others. Anyone who did not play round 22 could have played yesterday. That means Sicily, Birchall and Howe.

 

[Walshawk]

Thanks for the footage there Savage.
Yes was an awesome day down there yesterday. Standing there down at that pavilion end was just fantastic.
Firstly the Whitey back heel & then the match saver. If you listen carefully the ball just gets over the goal line when the siren sounds.
Bring on those hand baggers next week. Go Stangers!

Box Hill play next a Sunday arvo.

 

[Pessimistic]

Box Hill play next a Sunday arvo.

Sunday? Screwed over again. The day geelong vflw play not Hawthorn VFLW

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Mirra to Caddy would be a pretty hood match up rather than having KB in the line up this week

Stay cool Bro

 

[Mrzohs]

Stratts Frawley Hardwick
Burton Sicily Burgoyne
Hendo Mitch Smith
Breust Roughy Gunston
Impey Ceglar Poppy
Mcevoy Omeara Shiels

Worpel,Morrison,Howe,Nash,

 

[GlenferrieOval3122]

Player watch for us - Cotchin. Lay a few ripping tackles into him early and let him smell the grass a few times. Not a big guy or particularly strong, needs a bit of attention early. Loves to keep clear of trouble, we need to make sure he gets plenty of attention.

 

[Ranj Sri Lanka]

Stratts Frawley Hardwick
Burton Sicily Burgoyne
Hendo Mitch Smith
Breust Roughy Gunston
Impey Ceglar Poppy
Mcevoy Omeara Shiels

Worpel,Morrison,Howe,Nash,

This would be the ideal. However not sure why Howe played full 3 quarters yesterday and and looked tired at the end.

 

[thejockey]

Player watch for us - Cotchin. Lay a few ripping tackles into him early and let him smell the grass a few times. Not a big guy or particularly strong, needs a bit of attention early. Loves to keep clear of trouble, we need to make sure he gets plenty of attention.

Would like to think that’s the attention they will all get from anyone in a brown and gold jumper .
We are hunting them Thursday night

 

[The German Hunter]

Player watch for us - Cotchin. Lay a few ripping tackles into him early and let him smell the grass a few times. Not a big guy or particularly strong, needs a bit of attention early. Loves to keep clear of trouble, we need to make sure he gets plenty of attention.

Operation Nash

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Rain forecast has diminished as usual. Come Wednesday it’ll probably be predicting sunshine.

Toss up for which is more difficult; predicting the Melbourne weather or the team Clarko and the match committee will come up with.

 

[Clarkos_Soldier]

.
We NEED marks, stop their push the ball frwd to make it a ground ball scrap game style and the only way to do that is by marking by the ball.

This might sound an oversimplification but I have a theory on beating the Tigers. Be prepared this likely my longest post. I posted one like this before in 2015 on how the Eagles Web worked and how to defeat it which I believe Gerard Healy or David King copied three days later. So feel free to copy again guys.

If you look at the overall stats for the teams they are very similar. Except hitouts which are clearly in our favour and points for which is in their favour. So obviously they score more despite going into the fifty about the same number of times. So why is that if marks inside fifty are identical? There are a number of reasons:

1. Better delivery
2. Better positioning in the forward line
3. Better conversion due to both of the above.

I think it's the third but influenced more due to item 2 than 1. Let me explain. When the ball goes into the Tiger's forward line they mark it around the same number of times as we do (and we are not marking many these days). So how could they convert so much better? It's because they do what we used to do and what Collingwood also does. Don't always try to mark the ball. This is crucial! Let me say that again. DON'T ALWAYS TRY TO MARK THE BALL!

This is what we used to do so well but have moved away from quite a lot. But we need to be aware that Tiger's do it and we need to utilise it too. Why? It creates surprises and provides easy goals to quality crumbers. If you watch Richmond and Collingwood they have one target in the best position go up for the ball and three players prepare to crumb. I call it the triangle (a diamond is used during stoppages). A triangle because they'll have a crumber ready on either side of the contesting teammate going up for the ball and a third will position either in front or behind the contest. Usually it's in front but sometimes behind if the ball is a long launch. Now the contesting player needs some awareness to bring down the ball to one of those teammates even if he can mark it. This creates doubt in the mind of the defenders and instead of just worrying about the mark they will second guess that the ball might be palmed or tapped to the advantage of a crumber. Further if you position yourself in such a fashion you can tap on to other teammates knowing where they might be even without taking a proper look. This will work better when you start to judge each other's movements with experience.

So the other side of this is to defend it and be really well drilled in repelling it. The way to do that is to set a diamond defence around the contest. One on each side of the contest. But the trick is to judge the flight well and co-ordinate with your teammates to ensure the front of the diamond is aligned with the flight of the ball. If you can manage to do this well you will have a defender reader in all dangerous drop zones. It's also important to ensure only one person flies for the ball. If a pack then two but no more than that otherwise it's going to be difficult to have numbers on all sides. This takes away Richmond and Collingwood's methodology (which has been copied from the Hawks of 2013-2015). This is why we don't do it as much since opposition defences became prepared for it in 2016. But it might be a good time to bring it back. But otherwise at least be prepared to defend it well.

I believe if we can do this well we will beat Richmond.

 

[Buttonsticher]

Does anybody know when the boys are training this week. The training link on the Finals Hub on the Hawks website remains blank.

 

[Alite]

This might sound an oversimplification but I have a theory on beating the Tigers. Be prepared this likely my longest post. I posted one like this before in 2015 on how the Eagles Web worked and how to defeat it which I believe Gerard Healy or David King copied three days later. So feel free to copy again guys.

If you look at the overall stats for the teams they are very similar. Except hitouts which are clearly in our favour and points for which is in their favour. So obviously they score more despite going into the fifty about the same number of times. So why is that if marks inside fifty are identical? There are a number of reasons:

1. Better delivery
2. Better positioning in the forward line
3. Better conversion due to both of the above.

I think it's the third but influenced more due to item 2 than 1. Let me explain. When the ball goes into the Tiger's forward line they mark it around the same number of times as we do (and we are not marking many these days). So how could they convert so much better? It's because they do what we used to do and what Collingwood also does. Don't always try to mark the ball. This is crucial! Let me say that again. DON'T ALWAYS TRY TO MARK THE BALL!

This is what we used to do so well but have moved away from quite a lot. But we need to be aware that Tiger's do it and we need to utilise it too. Why? It creates surprises and provides easy goals to quality crumbers. If you watch Richmond and Collingwood they have one target in the best position go up for the ball and three players prepare to crumb. I call it the triangle (a diamond is used during stoppages). A triangle because they'll have a crumber ready on either side of the contesting teammate going up for the ball and a third will position either in front or behind the contest. Usually it's in front but sometimes behind if the ball is a long launch. Now the contesting player needs some awareness to bring down the ball to one of those teammates even if he can mark it. This creates doubt in the mind of the defenders and instead of just worrying about the mark they will second guess that the ball might be palmed or tapped to the advantage of a crumber. Further if you position yourself in such a fashion you can tap on to other teammates knowing where they might be even without taking a proper look. This will work better when you start to judge each other's movements with experience.

So the other side of this is to defend it and be really well drilled in repelling it. The way to do that is to set a diamond defence around the contest. One on each side of the contest. But the trick is to judge the flight well and co-ordinate with your teammates to ensure the front of the diamond is aligned with the flight of the ball. If you can manage to do this well you will have a defender reader in all dangerous drop zones. It's also important to ensure only one person flies for the ball. If a pack then two but no more than that otherwise it's going to be difficult to have numbers on all sides. This takes away Richmond and Collingwood's methodology (which has been copied from the Hawks of 2013-2015). This is why we don't do it as much since opposition defences became prepared for it in 2016. But it might be a good time to bring it back. But otherwise at least be prepared to defend it well.

I believe if we can do this well we will beat Richmond.

Yuuuup. I like your strategy. If Clarko is thinking the same way let’s hope he has drilled it into the team for months. We all know a good strategy badly executed is chaos and a fast exit from the finals.

 

[WillowSF]

Richmond's back half are poised and very well organized. We can definitely get more supply to our forward line than them with Mitchell, Omeara & Worpel but we must be smart with how we do it. Quick ball movement forward is key, and isolate there backs 1-1 against Gunston & Breust. I also would like to create a mismatch with McEvoy & Ceglar rotating through full forward. Howe also to play and shut down Martin. Great experience for our young guns...

 

[Alite]

Put Stratton in the forwardline on Rance!! The Tigers start their attacks from defence. If Rance cannot rebound, we can lock it in our forwardline... and usually we score.
Sisily behind the ball on one wing with McEvoy in the middle and Rough on the other wing, Frawley further back...
That is a good set up.

 

[Alite]

Richmond's back half are poised and very well organized. We can definitely get more supply to our forward line than them with Mitchell, Omeara & Worpel but we must be smart with how we do it. Quick ball movement forward is key, and isolate there backs 1-1 against Gunston & Breust. I also would like to create a mismatch with McEvoy & Ceglar rotating through full forward. Howe also to play and shut down Martin. Great experience for our young guns...

My thought on beating Martin in the midfield is to have separation and speed. Let him get the ball and hit him at speed. His don’t-argues are brilliant: they give him separation and give him time. Use his strength = the ability to get space, against him.
Note: Martin used to get holding the ball decisions against him often... do it again

 

[beta_condition]

I think Nash could be our real key here. Keep entry into the forward line low even mongrel punts and take away their incept marking. Let the ball hit the ground and stop their run and rebound with ultimate pressure. Nash would be a daunting figure with ground ball forward 50 entries 200cm and 95kg with the highest speed on the ground would surely make some nervous tiggies. Long low kicks or shallow entries is our best chance to pick apart their defense, if we try to kick most of goal through set shots we lose.

 

[burnside5]

Put Stratton in the forwardline on Rance!! The Tigers start their attacks from defence. If Rance cannot rebound, we can lock it in our forwardline... and usually we score.
Sisily behind the ball on one wing with McEvoy in the middle and Rough on the other wing, Frawley further back...
That is a good set up.

Yep.

Just watching the replay on Fox now last quarter.

I believe we have greatly improved as a team and blooding some new players such as Worpel, Nash, Morisson (more game time) and that have replaced Langers, O'Brien and Duryea. We didn't lose by much..

Impey and Burton have greatly improved with Smith and Roughead down on recent weeks which means the younger brigade have shown the way.

No way am I scared of Richmond going into this but we need to do three things things; nullify Martin, Cotchin and Reiwoldt.

Roughead more into the middle to force him into the game as still very clever with taps and handballs / little touches.

Unless Birchall was extremely fit and fitness staff said a 100% certainty in hindsight, would be unwise to bring him in and unfair perhaps to drop someone who has earned his spot.

I really hope Nash stays in not just because of my Irish history but love a bloke who charges a 100 miles an hour and at a bloke and nails him; that's gotta lift any teammate seeing that, not only setting up a goal.

McEvoy has been bloody fantastic this year I reckon and Ceglar, when playing takes a mark and can also kick a goal.

Anyone dropped I will feel sorry for as believe they have all played their part.

I really think we can and will win this!

 

[Alite]

Toss up for which is more difficult; predicting the Melbourne weather or the team Clarko and the match committee will come up with.

The butterfly effect was a story created by physicists from observing the weather and was created to help explain a whole new concept in mathematics called the Chaos theory.

All other Coaches have their game plans and are sitting, waiting and being concerned while overthinking what Clarko might come up with.

What is happening (IMO) is that Clarko has his new chaos theory set and ready to confuse and confound his opposition coaches.

2008’s rushed behind concept helped beat a dominant Geelong to a GF, won it for the Hawks and forced a rule change...haha.

There are many more examples... but not for this thread. A nostalgia thread maybe.

For mine:

The only way we win is to break down their pack attack on the ball carrier. So... a hit out : cue pre-set ruck hit out to space with a guy running on to it, or a kick out of congestion... and we has 3 players ready to run. Defensively we have 3 players ready to lock it in/ punch it away / take control.

 

[burnside5]

The butterfly effect was a story created by physicists from observing the weather and was created to help explain a whole new concept in mathematics called the Chaos theory.

All other Coaches have their game plans and are sitting, waiting and being concerned while overthinking what Clarko might come up with.

What is happening (IMO) is that Clarko has his new chaos theory set and ready to confuse and confound his opposition coaches.

2008’s rushed behind concept helped beat a dominant Geelong a GF, won it for the Hawks and forced a rule change...haha.

There are many more examples... but not for this thread. A nostalgia thread maybe.

Our marking with McEvoy and Ceglar is a strength.
Howe was an honest and often contributor along with Cousins.

The only way we win is to break down their pack attack on the ball carrier. So... a hit out : cue pre-set ruck hit out to space with a guy running on to it, or a kick out of congestion... and we has 5 players ready to run.

Howe, at first thought a bit too much puppy fat and trim down a bit but he has shown has a bit of mongrel which this side seems to building once again; Worpel, Sicily, Nash etc.. love it...

Mantra; We lose okay but you can guarantee you will bloody earn it... Pressure, strong tackles, bumps and unsettle anyone that comes across the Hawks way.

That's the way it always should be no matter what side runs out. Once you play Hawthorn then you can expect some bruises and know that you've played a very hard game of footy.

Should always be the way, as no prisoners, as all teams should know we have gone to another gear through the brilliant Clarkson and Wright and co; to keep bewildering me how they seem to finding blokes who just slot in and play their roles.

It also shows with shrewd recruiting, you can find some gems as far down as pick 50 if you do your homework and yes, you cant get it always right such as Thorpe, Dowler etc.. but yep, got some beauties emerging.

Clarkson not coach of the year after what he has done to date is simply laughable but it is not about accolades at this club but to succeed and look back on what you have done for this magnificent club.

Last year I thought we were going to be in for a long period of pain but perhaps no, the new brigade comes through and may it continue this legacy..

Cousins? I must admit know nothing about him except he seems to be in the best two or three at Box Hill every week.

Anyone know anything about him as on paper looks like another gun? Surely must be close to getting a game next year at least..?

 

[Alite]

Howe, at first thought a bit too much puppy fat and trim down a bit but he has shown has a bit of mongrel which this side seems to building once again; Worpel, Sicily, Nash etc.. love it...

Mantra; We lose okay but you can guarantee you will bloody earn it... Pressure, strong tackles, bumps and unsettle anyone that comes across the Hawks way.

That's the way it always should be no matter what side runs out. Once you play Hawthorn then you can expect some bruises and know that you've played a very hard game of footy.

Should always be the way, as no prisoners, as all teams should know we have gone to another gear through the brilliant Clarkson and Wright and co; to keep bewildering me how they seem to finding blokes who just slot in and play their roles.

It also shows with shrewd recruiting, you can find some gems as far down as pick 50 if you do your homework and yes, you cant get it always right such as Thorpe, Dowler etc.. but yep, got some beauties emerging.

Clarkson not coach of the year after what he has done to date is simply laughable but it is not about accolades at this club but to succeed and look back on what you have done for this magnificent club.

Last year I thought we were going to be in for a long period of pain but perhaps no, the new brigade comes through and may it continue this legacy..

Cousins? I must admit know nothing about him except he seems to be in the best two or three at Box Hill every week.

Anyone know anything about him as on paper looks like another gun? Surely must be close to getting a game next year at least..?

Cousins: Live I saw a guy who seemed slow who did not seem to spread, rarely did anything. Very unimpressed. Until I found out Cousins crushed Merrett as a tagger.
I think Cousins is currently an “Honest footballer”. Finds the ball and can tag. Clearly a keeper.

 

[satadaynitefeva]

Who cares about shutting down Richmond - how bout considering how do Richmond shut down Hawthorn? Jesus there is a reason why we have achieved what we have in the last decade. There's a reason why the laughing stock of the league has achieved what they have in the last 37years. Absolute pretenders. My pet rock could out smart Dimwit, we have Clarko. Hawks by 45

 

[thejockey]

We can play around we team selection , matchups and positions but to beat good teams whether it’s the Tigers who are the best or anyone else I think for us it comes down to this

- matching or exceeding opponents pressure , which in general we have been very good at . We are very good at stifling ball movement from opposition half back which the Tigers love.
- clean crisp and fluid ball movement . If we get too static we are in trouble . 10-15 m passes are fine as long as we are on the move.

We know Clarko will throw a thing or two up at them but for the most part he will back our game in we a slight tweak here or there

If we start chipping the ball slowly we are in trouble . If they link handball easily and breakaway we are in trouble .
That’s what I’ll be looking out for for .

 

[Carl Spackler]

The more I look at our best 22 the less I see Roughead in it!! Rather keep Nash, schoenmakers and bring cegs in. Sorry, but that’s the hard truth. You cannot keep dropping simple marks inside 50 that turn into dangerous rebound for the opposition and clarko knows this.
Mirra doesn’t like body contact and is treacle slow. No way he comes in.
Sicily, Frawley and Ceglar are a must! Need brute bodies around the ground.
We NEED marks, stop their push the ball frwd to make it a ground ball scrap game style and the only way to do that is by marking by the ball.

Schoey pushes Rough out of this side?

Cheech and Chong are looking for extras to be in their next flick. You could earn some cash.

 

[Isaba]

Put Roughy in the midfield from opening bounce. Have to get midfield ascendancy from the get go and Roughy will hurt people

Do you think Roughie drinks a smoothie before the game to try and balance things out?