Autopsy 2018 Rd 17 Kreuzer out early, another terrible loss

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Talrahir said:
I have had the advantage of a full nights sleep after the game, so I'm not as emotionally raw as I would have been if I posted straight after the game.

I'm not going to buy into whether clubs respect or disrespect us. Their mindset is not my immediate concern although it will play a part in luring senior players from other clubs during the trade period. I definitely think the players care as a whole. No one likes losing and no one is deliberately throwing away their football career. To keep perspective though, there are some players who aren't up to the grade. We can only play who we've got for now, unless they introduce mid-season trade windows like the EPL. We're getting games into the kids and that's a positive.

When we hold up to teams that run and gun, then we'll be on our way. For some time, we haven't been able to contain the teams that play a free flowing game-style. It's not so much about where they are on the ladder. It's about the game-style that we match up well against, or poorly against. Our zone currently provides easy goals on a platter for teams that have a strong outside game.

It looks like its all a fitness and effort problem but that's not it. Whenever I've looked at our GPS numbers, we've been equal to or higher than our opponents in distance travelled. So it looks bad because players are caught out of position in the zone, spend too much time chasing tail, and look slow while changing direction. Fisher did the same to them when he kicked that goal from just inside 50. Caught them wrong footed. We're probably working harder than the opposition because we are so often caught out of position as a result of turnovers.

I agree that the skill level is poor but I'm confident that it's more a confidence issue with the kids. When they get a little more experience, they won't get that mad adrenaline rush when they get the ball, or feel rushed and panic. They'll have been in those situations a few times and get it right more often than they do now. Obviously, our senior players are making skill errors because many of them are place holders who are skill capped. We know what we're going to get from players like Sammy Rowe week in week out. He's not going to make team of the week, but until someone can perform his role better, he'll try his guts out for the jumper. I don't want to create a list in this post but I'll put something together for the list management thread during the week.

We lost/traded players who had currency, and the senior players that remain are currently average at best. We spent those picks on youth. Our growth will come from getting games into those kids and playing them together. Cohesion isn't just a Bolton cliché. Some of those kids will work out, some won't. But we need to spend every spare cent/spare minute on developing them into the best footballers they can be.

Last thing I've got to get off my chest is the posters who blame SOS for getting in players like:

Lang - Pick 58
Lobbe - Pick 95
O'Shea - Preseason Draft (that no one has used since 2014)...FREE
Palmer - Pick 135
Shaw - Rookie
Mullet - DFA

Seriously, it's not a fail if none of these players are AFL standard. It's a dice roll that you're not expecting to win. But if even one of those players worked, its a win. They weren't picked instead of some AFL superstar who was begging to come to us. There are only so many players available, and there are only so many kids you can pick. If they don't work, you move them on and try other players. Some of these pick ups were salary dumps that facilitated other trades.

We have no choice but to take a deep breath, and battle through the last few games (like we expect our players to) with our scarfs high in the air. Show the media that we still love our club, and show prospective free agents that we don't snipe our club when times are tough. We are a part of our clubs culture.

At the end of the year, we'll move on some players that didn't work out, we'll bring in some exciting new players, and we'll get another pre-season into our talented youth. We'll probably take a different approach with the game plan and structure for 2019, and we'll jump really quickly.

GO BLUES
Click to expand...
Love the post. Don’t agree about the fitness conclusion though. Yes the zone is rubbish and it’s not working but we’re pverloading people like Ed who finish the game at walking pace because other players are simply not close to fit enough.
 

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Talrahir said:
I have had the advantage of a full nights sleep after the game, so I'm not as emotionally raw as I would have been if I posted straight after the game.

I'm not going to buy into whether clubs respect or disrespect us. Their mindset is not my immediate concern although it will play a part in luring senior players from other clubs during the trade period. I definitely think the players care as a whole. No one likes losing and no one is deliberately throwing away their football career. To keep perspective though, there are some players who aren't up to the grade. We can only play who we've got for now, unless they introduce mid-season trade windows like the EPL. We're getting games into the kids and that's a positive.

When we hold up to teams that run and gun, then we'll be on our way. For some time, we haven't been able to contain the teams that play a free flowing game-style. It's not so much about where they are on the ladder. It's about the game-style that we match up well against, or poorly against. Our zone currently provides easy goals on a platter for teams that have a strong outside game.

It looks like its all a fitness and effort problem but that's not it. Whenever I've looked at our GPS numbers, we've been equal to or higher than our opponents in distance travelled. So it looks bad because players are caught out of position in the zone, spend too much time chasing tail, and look slow while changing direction. Fisher did the same to them when he kicked that goal from just inside 50. Caught them wrong footed. We're probably working harder than the opposition because we are so often caught out of position as a result of turnovers.

I agree that the skill level is poor but I'm confident that it's more a confidence issue with the kids. When they get a little more experience, they won't get that mad adrenaline rush when they get the ball, or feel rushed and panic. They'll have been in those situations a few times and get it right more often than they do now. Obviously, our senior players are making skill errors because many of them are place holders who are skill capped. We know what we're going to get from players like Sammy Rowe week in week out. He's not going to make team of the week, but until someone can perform his role better, he'll try his guts out for the jumper. I don't want to create a list in this post but I'll put something together for the list management thread during the week.

We lost/traded players who had currency, and the senior players that remain are currently average at best. We spent those picks on youth. Our growth will come from getting games into those kids and playing them together. Cohesion isn't just a Bolton cliché. Some of those kids will work out, some won't. But we need to spend every spare cent/spare minute on developing them into the best footballers they can be.

Last thing I've got to get off my chest is the posters who blame SOS for getting in players like:

Lang - Pick 58
Lobbe - Pick 95
O'Shea - Preseason Draft (that no one has used since 2014)...FREE
Palmer - Pick 135
Shaw - Rookie
Mullet - DFA

Seriously, it's not a fail if none of these players are AFL standard. It's a dice roll that you're not expecting to win. But if even one of those players worked, its a win. They weren't picked instead of some AFL superstar who was begging to come to us. There are only so many players available, and there are only so many kids you can pick. If they don't work, you move them on and try other players. Some of these pick ups were salary dumps that facilitated other trades.

We have no choice but to take a deep breath, and battle through the last few games (like we expect our players to) with our scarfs high in the air. Show the media that we still love our club, and show prospective free agents that we don't snipe our club when times are tough. We are a part of our clubs culture.

At the end of the year, we'll move on some players that didn't work out, we'll bring in some exciting new players, and we'll get another pre-season into our talented youth. We'll probably take a different approach with the game plan and structure for 2019, and we'll jump really quickly.

GO BLUES
Click to expand...
Yeah if you think about those experienced players like Mullet and co, we get them for salary dumps at worst. We can't overpay young players otherwise our salary cap is shot. It's as much list management as hoping to get something out of recycled players.
 
Talrahir said:
I have had the advantage of a full nights sleep after the game, so I'm not as emotionally raw as I would have been if I posted straight after the game.

I'm not going to buy into whether clubs respect or disrespect us. Their mindset is not my immediate concern although it will play a part in luring senior players from other clubs during the trade period. I definitely think the players care as a whole. No one likes losing and no one is deliberately throwing away their football career. To keep perspective though, there are some players who aren't up to the grade. We can only play who we've got for now, unless they introduce mid-season trade windows like the EPL. We're getting games into the kids and that's a positive.

When we hold up to teams that run and gun, then we'll be on our way. For some time, we haven't been able to contain the teams that play a free flowing game-style. It's not so much about where they are on the ladder. It's about the game-style that we match up well against, or poorly against. Our zone currently provides easy goals on a platter for teams that have a strong outside game.

It looks like its all a fitness and effort problem but that's not it. Whenever I've looked at our GPS numbers, we've been equal to or higher than our opponents in distance travelled. So it looks bad because players are caught out of position in the zone, spend too much time chasing tail, and look slow while changing direction. Fisher did the same to them when he kicked that goal from just inside 50. Caught them wrong footed. We're probably working harder than the opposition because we are so often caught out of position as a result of turnovers.

I agree that the skill level is poor but I'm confident that it's more a confidence issue with the kids. When they get a little more experience, they won't get that mad adrenaline rush when they get the ball, or feel rushed and panic. They'll have been in those situations a few times and get it right more often than they do now. Obviously, our senior players are making skill errors because many of them are place holders who are skill capped. We know what we're going to get from players like Sammy Rowe week in week out. He's not going to make team of the week, but until someone can perform his role better, he'll try his guts out for the jumper. I don't want to create a list in this post but I'll put something together for the list management thread during the week.

We lost/traded players who had currency, and the senior players that remain are currently average at best. We spent those picks on youth. Our growth will come from getting games into those kids and playing them together. Cohesion isn't just a Bolton cliché. Some of those kids will work out, some won't. But we need to spend every spare cent/spare minute on developing them into the best footballers they can be.

Last thing I've got to get off my chest is the posters who blame SOS for getting in players like:

Lang - Pick 58
Lobbe - Pick 95
O'Shea - Preseason Draft (that no one has used since 2014)...FREE
Palmer - Pick 135
Shaw - Rookie
Mullet - DFA

Seriously, it's not a fail if none of these players are AFL standard. It's a dice roll that you're not expecting to win. But if even one of those players worked, its a win. They weren't picked instead of some AFL superstar who was begging to come to us. There are only so many players available, and there are only so many kids you can pick. If they don't work, you move them on and try other players. Some of these pick ups were salary dumps that facilitated other trades.

We have no choice but to take a deep breath, and battle through the last few games (like we expect our players to) with our scarfs high in the air. Show the media that we still love our club, and show prospective free agents that we don't snipe our club when times are tough. We are a part of our clubs culture.

At the end of the year, we'll move on some players that didn't work out, we'll bring in some exciting new players, and we'll get another pre-season into our talented youth. We'll probably take a different approach with the game plan and structure for 2019, and we'll jump really quickly.

GO BLUES
Click to expand...
Correct. SOS drafted 15 players. 10 make it. That leaves you 20 short (30 to win a flag) when you start from zero base and you have to replace Gibbs, Simpson, Kreuzer, Murphy along the way
 
thylacine60 said:
just so you know you agreed with this guy carlton2dabone and your comment was liked by this guy Toddski and this one Snoozer. Have a great day!
Click to expand...

So we have been critical of the club all year and you somehow believe that we are the delusional ones?

Hahah you're making yourself look really silly mate. You already do a great job of that but choosing to pick an argument with me and the rational posters on this board after what we are witnessing is truly a new level of stupidity, even for you.

Do tell, how in any way, have us objective posters been proven incorrect this year? I'll wait.
 
So basically we have problems with fitness and conditioning department how slow and unfit half our team looks every week.

We have problems with our medical department with how many players have reinsured the same injury in their first game back.

We have obvious problems with our coaching department, from senior coach assistant coaches to development coaches and even head coach.

We have problems with our marketing department with the decision to play in those god awful jumpers last night etc etc

We have serious problems with our list and the amount of deadwoood older spuds that are on it that are not anywhere good enough to be AFL level players yet we thought was a good idea to give a spot on the list to, because you know, we never anticipated that we’d be forced to use them as depth lol


So Does anyone seriously think we can turn all this around next year or even a few years from now????
 

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Gethelred said:
Injuries strike again!

It's like someone - probably from Essendon or Richmond - managed to make Princes Park simultaneously pass under a ladder, gallivant across 13 different black cat's paths, and they smashed up a mirror store.

What I wouldn't give for a match in which we could get something resembling a cohesive back six, a competent on ball brigade, and two marking targets with smalls to chirp around their feet. I'm not asking for superstars, just wishing we could play just one game against a fellow bottom 4 side without losing one or more players during the match.

The thing for me at least was that, barring some umpiring indiscretions and some wayward kicks in the first half, they would've struggled to score. Daisy, Ed, Jones; all three of them coughed the ball up once we'd effected the turnover, and were looking to rebound quickly. Some of their kicks just went straight to St Kilda, who then responded the way they do on turnover. They also went marginally better than they usually do; 74.5% disposal efficiency compared to their average of 73.4%, and bear in mind just how many shots they scrubbed late in the game, bringing down their efficiency. Don't you also absolutely love how they don't kick straight against the rest of the comp, then proceed to kick bloody well in the first half? Their form going in was also on the improve, and we're another bottom 4 side, one they really should be beating every day of the week. They didn't show up to play, but our ineptitude and some dubious frees got the ball rolling, and like all good downhill skiers it was on for young and old.

I will say I'm learning to despise this current incarnation of St Kilda, all bluster and bullying, swagger and masculine bullshit. **** off with that in your face shit; how proud are you really when you're almost as bad as we are?

Anyway, we had precisely the same problem we've had all season, we simply cannot stop our opposition scoring. We can't attack, we can't defend, and we can't retain possession. Some of this is cattle, some of this is fitness for those that are out there, and some of this is a lack of synergy in the back half of the ground. See, when our zone worked, each player in the back half relied on their teammates to leave their man to get in front of leads that could not be defended; they communicated quickly, and they functioned as a unit where if there was a two on one or Rowe/Weitering were not fast enough to get to the Membreys of the world in time, Marchbank, Plow, Doc or Simpson would invariably get into the space in time and either create a contest or outright mark the ball. Now, we don't have the players that would organise such a thing; Simpson's not that guy, Marshbank's a doer not a thinker, and Jones doesn't understand why he does what he does, or why it works sometimes but not others. As a consequence, when we'd normally have an intercept possession and an opportunity to turn defense into attack, we're leaking goals like crazy and the backmen lose even more confidence. We're also punching far more than we used to (not that that was in evidence last night, though) and even spoiling each other; past a certain point, the players just aren't co-operating the way we know they can with continuity and the right people in place.

You couple that the midfield being full of first and second year players, small ones with the exception of Cripps and Kennedy, and is it any real wonder that we cannot lay tackles sufficient to stop a bigger midfield? Is it any wonder they just slung it forwards, stoppage after stoppage, because in a tackle we couldn't pin the arms because it's Fisher tackling Armitage and the bloke's forearms are as thick as Fisher's quads?

I was actually fairly heartened early on by the degree of teamwork we had on display. They got around each other, working together and played as a team. Someone did something good, there's another bloke to help him up. The lead in to Daisy's goal is a testament to this, as far as I'm concerned; it was a great bit of play from all concerned, all looking to get the ball out into space creatively. Fisher never stopped trying, and frankly is as heartening as anyone currently wearing the jumper.

Ultimately, I maintain we were never going to win last night. I've written a lot about the saints over the last few years, and they still play a style that is a hard counter to ours; rely on their backmen to stop our forwards, then on the turnover slingshot it out to the other end where you've got a leading Membrey to mark it. They also kicked a lot of goals from stoppages, if the commentary is anything to go by.

We certainly didn't need to lose Kreuzer early, and we didn't need two different interpretations of HTB between the teams either, though. It made the night suck harder. But there were still plenty of good things to watch; that play from a kickout where LOB and Dow combined to beat about 6 opposition players, almost lighting the ground up, Fish looking behind him and deciding the bloke chasing him ain't got shit and just burning off, H making Carlisle look fat and slow and kind of like a lummox.

I suppose the thing I took from it last night is, we're really not that far off. We need to do what we do well for longer, we need to show better organisation and we need to continue to play for each other, because without that we really are truly sunk.
Click to expand...

Sage.jpg
 
Show_Me_The_Money said:
Harry made Bolton and the MC look like the bunch of fools they are.

Kreuzer elevated heart rate? Jeez we must be getting desperate resorting to caffeine or whatever we are pumping them full of.

Coach has to go, simple as that.
Click to expand...
what if there is no progress under the new person? be great if it was a woman - do you give them 3 years then sack em again? how will that work?
 
Arr0w said:
You and I both know there are countless examples of players, having poor output, initially

People need to look a little deeper
Click to expand...
This is our problem. We keep absolute spuds on the list hoping they'll eventually turn it around. He is not good enough. He wouldnt be on any other list in the AFL. 3 touches, 2 kicks, both out on the full, 1 FA and 3 tackles. We need to be ruthless with list management. Get rid of him and give someone else a shot
 
Zlatan said:
Yeah - we should be extremely optimistic watching the absolute rubbish this club has displayed since the second half of the first game of the season.

It was half a step forward last season, 80 steps back this season. No amount of spinning can change this reality.

I’ve kept off the board as I’ve had nothing positive to say for most of the season, but pretending everything is ok is just delusional.
Click to expand...
how could you not be optimistic when you believe we are at rock bottom? we don't have relegation in the afl thank ****
 
Smalls0304 said:
This is our problem. We keep absolute spuds on the list hoping they'll eventually turn it around. He is not good enough. He wouldnt be on any other list in the AFL. 3 touches, 2 kicks, both out on the full, 1 FA and 3 tackles. We need to be ruthless with list management. Get rid of him and give someone else a shot
Click to expand...

We have been ruthless, surely that is evident.

Polson has been signed for another 2 years, after this one, surely that is also an indication of what the club think of his potential
 

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Autopsy 2018 Rd 17 Kreuzer out early, another terrible loss

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