2019 4th Ashes Test 2019 Old Trafford

[Topkent]

Lets be honest.

If we didnt have Smith we'd probably lose 5-0

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Could easily say if they didn't have Broad or Stokes

 

[ABAB]

That would be the only side you could make the case is worse than this side, but it features the best hits of the current team plus Haddin and Clarke. That, coupled with an in form Warner, is why I judge that tour party stronger than this one.

Without Smith, we failed to pass 300 twice. It was only due to a profound effort and discipline from our bowlers in the first dig at Headingley managed to get us any lead at all. Smith is the only member of the party this tour that you can say is a direct upgrade over any of 2015's tour, and even then we had the batting and the bowling to expect a better showing than we got.

I think Lyon can be consider an upgrade evident by his bowling on the 4/5th day of the 1st Test, also got the very important wicket of Denly in the 4th Test while clearly bowling with an injured spinning finger (he has failed to perform on the 2nd innings in the past), Hazelwood is a way better bowling this time around and we Cummins this time, even if Harris was fit and able to play that 2015 series and did well, I would still consider Cummins would be an upgrade.

 

[CrowBloke]

Lets be honest. If we didnt have Smith we'd probably lose 5-0

M-a-y-b-e, and both teams have said Smith is the difference,
BUT ... we DO have Smith and need to celebrate that .

 

[woota]

Could easily say if they didn't have Broad or Stokes

We are dependent on ONE batsman to win games of cricket, and that's not a good place to be in (we lost 3rd test because smith didn't play).

 

[LukeParkerno1]

We are dependent on ONE batsman to win games of cricket, and that's not a good place to be in (we lost 3rd test because smith didn't play).

No we lost the 3rd test because we blew a review and the umpire was as blind as a bat. It took one of the great Ashes innings to beat us. Happens.

 

[woota]

No we lost the 3rd test because we blew a review and the umpire was as blind as a bat. It took one of the great Ashes innings to beat us. Happens.

Yes, and all of that would have been irrelevant if smith had played because england would have been chasing 500+ in their last innings.

 

[Topkent]

We are dependent on ONE batsman to win games of cricket, and that's not a good place to be in (we lost 3rd test because smith didn't play).

We won the first test by 251 runs and Smith made 286.

So we still very easily could win without him and then we easily should have won the 2rd test without him aswell.

Stop posting crap

 

[Topkent]

Yes, and all of that would have been irrelevant if smith had played because england would have been chasing 500+ in their last innings.

So you've already been proven wrong and now you are doubling down on a stupid opinion.. fair enough

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yes, and all of that would have been irrelevant if smith had played because england would have been chasing 500+ in their last innings.

Or he might have got a pair. We were in a good position in the 3rd test. Smith not playing didn’t cost us the test.

 

[woota]

So you've already been proven wrong and now you are doubling down on a stupid opinion.. fair enough

So smith makes no difference and england would have still won the 3rd test if smith had played... fair enough

 

[Topkent]

So smith makes no difference and england would have still won the 3rd test if smith had played... fair enough

It's a dumb hypothetical. Smith being injured brought in Lab who actually helped us almost win and then did help us win this test. Smith could have made 2 ducks and dropped a catch that cost us the game.

 

[woota]

Or he might have got a pair. We were in a good position in the 3rd test. Smith not playing didn’t cost us the test.

I mean the odds are definitely in favor of smith making a pair and not playing a match winning innings like he has in every other game in the series.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So smith makes no difference and england would have still won the 3rd test if smith had played... fair enough

You don’t know what would have happened...

We also wouldn’t have had Lab as he was stupidly left out for Wade, Head and all the other left handers

 

[woota]

It's a dumb hypothetical. Smith being injured brought in Lab who actually helped us almost win and then did help us win this test. Smith could have made 2 ducks and dropped a catch that cost us the game.

-accuses me of dumb hypothetical

- suggests that smith would have made 2 ducks if he played

Only on bigfooty

 

[woota]

You don’t know what would have happened...

We also wouldn’t have had Lab as he was stupidly left out for Wade, Head and all the other left handers

I don't know what would have happened, but all the evidence suggests that smith would have made a pair and not guided australia to victory.

 

[Crankitup]

We are dependent on ONE batsman to win games of cricket, and that's not a good place to be in (we lost 3rd test because smith didn't play).

I think it's pretty short sighted to cite as your only reason for us losing the 3rd test that Smith was missing, when his replacement scored 80 & 74.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I don't know what would have happened, but all the evidence suggests that smith would have made a pair and not guided australia to victory.

We are in a better position with him missing that test! We thank Barbados form that.

Let me guess you were one that rated the Marsh duds....

We were in a good position, we had them 9 down and 100+ to win, you win 99 times out of 100 from there. It happens once you lose, that’s cricket mate.

 

[woota]

I think it's pretty short sighted to cite as your only reason for us losing the 3rd test that Smith was missing, when his replacement scored 80 & 74.

Oh I know, Smith clearly has nothing to do with australia winning. We should drop him for the 5th test. I'd bet on him making a pair if he plays.

 

[Crankitup]

Oh I know, Smith clearly has nothing to do with australia winning. We should drop him for the 5th test. I'd bet on him making a pair if he plays.

Nice deflection. No one can deny he was one of the major reasons for us winning the 4th test and the 1st. I was just pointing out that it's a bit naive to suggest his absence caused our loss in the 3rd, when you consider what his replacement scored. If Labs had failed you'd be on much stronger ground.

 

[woota]

Nice deflection. No one can deny he was one of the major reasons for us winning the 4th test and the other one we won. I was just pointing out that it's a bit naive to suggest his absence caused our loss in the 3rd, when you consider what his replacement scored. If Labs had failed you'd be on much stronger ground.

Of course. Smith definitely can't beat 80 and 74.

 

[Crankitup]

Of course. Smith definitely can't beat 80 and 74.

Of course he CAN. Will he always? No. What did he score in the second innings of the last test? He won't always score a century. We don't know what he would've scored in the 3rd. If we want to play hypotheticals we can only use his average. He averages 60 playing tests in England. Labs scored 154 in the match. Smith's average suggests he would likely have scored a total of 120.

 

[woota]

Of course he CAN. Will he always? No. What did he score in the second innings of the last test? He won't always score a century. We don't know what he would've scored in the 3rd. If we want to play hypotheticals we can only use his average. He averages 60 playing tests in England. Labs scored 154 in the match. Smith's average suggests he would likely have scored a total of 120.

His series average of 134 runs per innings definitely shouldn't be taken into account. I'd still bank on him making a pair if he had played.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Wow that argument left the point behind a long way ago
About as far as Harmison bowling wides..

 

[Crankitup]

His series average of 134 runs per innings definitely shouldn't be taken into account.

Correct. Sample size is too small.

 

[JackOutback]

Lets be honest.

If we didnt have Smith we'd probably lose 5-0

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Probably 3-1 or 2-1; their batting is bog average too.