List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals Thread

[SSwans2011]

Caesar, Collingwood were in front for 98% of last year's gf and extremely unlucky not to win, that's pulling straws with that argument. Without Grundy they wouldn't have made the gf.

They also won the hit-outs in the Preliminary Final 60-26 against the red hot favourites.

If Sinkers is our number 1 ruckman we're up s**t creek.

It's either him or Naismith, unless a youngster comes good. I think fit Sinclair is underrated as a ruck. Unfortunately he has looked exhausted for the last two years as he's had no real assistance. Daniher changes that IMO.

 

[RUNVS]

I know the game was different back in 2012 but our last premiership had 2 ruckman. 2014 had Pyke and Tippett.

I always liked Tippett as a ruckman. I still blame that ******* Carlton player in 2013 ruining his leg as the start of the end of Tippett

To be honest I get annoyed at the Tippett hate as he was bloody impressive for much of the 2014 season. He only started performing badly when injuries hit him and that was hardly his fault. When he was fit he was a dangerous player for us.

 

[Kapanis]

They kicked nearly half of their goals in the one quarter, that's why they were in front for so long. They were out-played for most of that match and it was only a matter of when, not if, West Coast would overtake them.

Kicked the first goals of the final quarter with Grundy throwing the ball down his mids throats.

 

[tombomb]

Nothing in this post is correct.

i didnt realise there were correct and incorrect opinions.

 

[caesar88]

I'm not sniping, it's a genuine point. It's one thing to be critical of us going after Daniher, but nobody has provided a reasonable alternative that improves our list to a similar extent. Nobody has even tried to provide a realistic one, so it's kind of hard to not just resort to sarcasm when addressing the tired old point that "we have other needs!!!1!1!"

Apologies for interpreting your sarcasm as sniping.

If there is no one out there who suits our needs (midfielders > key defender > decent ruck) come October, I would rather us take no one. Have another quiet trade period despite the blowback we'd get for it. Save the cap space for when there will be players available. Don't just throw it all at a bright and shiny new toy just because they want to come to your club.

That is what Geelong have done, which is why they are stagnant (albeit in a good part of the ladder to be stagnant at!). It's also what Port Adelaide have done in recent years, and Essendon, and North Melbourne. A "door's open" policy that's seen none of them come even remotely close to a flag in the years since, and some have overtly come back to bite them in the arse.

 

[SSwans2011]

To be honest I get annoyed at the Tippett hate as he was bloody impressive for much of the 2014 season. He only started performing badly when injuries hit him and that was hardly his fault. When he was fit he was a dangerous player for us.

He was in All-Australian form in 2016 before he went down as well. Just had hideous luck as a Swan. Bloke was a genuine gun and legitimate game-changer at his best IMHO.

 

[caesar88]

Kicked the first goals of the final quarter with Grundy throwing the ball down his mids throats.

Yeah, and then what? Did the other three quarters just not happen?

 

[Millky95]

I mean, if Naismith is fit and as good as the club seem to want him to be and can form a good partner ship with Sinclair as a ruck/forward by all means adding in Daniher would be outstanding

 

[RUNVS]

He was in All-Australian form in 2016 before he went down as well. Just had hideous luck as a Swan. Bloke was a genuine gun and legitimate game-changer at his best IMHO.

Agreed. People who criticise him have very short memories.

 

[Millky95]

He was in All-Australian form in 2016 before he went down as well. Just had hideous luck as a Swan. Bloke was a genuine gun and legitimate game-changer at his best IMHO.

His stretch of games in 2013 was leading goal kicker in that time as well. If only he hit 100 games for us and was fully fit...

 

[The Gong]

i didnt realise there were correct and incorrect opinions.

OK let me try again.

FACT Mumford was injured in the 2012 GF not benched.

The rest of your post was opinion based and in my opinion.....was nonsense.

 

[Tedeski]

I like how the issue you seem to have with your own post is that we would be getting overs for Papley ...

You don't see any issue at all with your suggested trade for Grundy? In what world would Collingwood trade Grundy to us for 8 and 11?

OK!
I was just throwing some stuff out there.

But I also added this which you have for some reason chosen to ignore & gives more context to what I was trying to say.
"Of course not as straight forward as that but work around those picks with a few tweaks of picks & players".

 

[SSwans2011]

Apologies for interpreting your sarcasm as sniping.

If there is no one out there who suits our needs (midfielders > key defender > decent ruck) come October, I would rather us take no one. Have another quiet trade period despite the blowback we'd get for it. Save the cap space for when there will be players available. Don't just throw it all at a bright and shiny new toy just because they want to come to your club.

That is what Geelong have done, which is why they are stagnant (albeit in a good part of the ladder to be stagnant at!). It's also what Port Adelaide have done in recent years, and Essendon, and North Melbourne. A "door's open" policy that's seen none of them come even remotely close to a flag in the years since, and some have overtly come back to bite them in the arse.

The reason Geelong fail is that they have a gameplan that isn't conducive to winning finals. They're obviously good enough to get there and win it. They've beaten, and even smashed, every top 8 team, minus GWS and Brisbane, at one point this year, so they're clearly capable. Just need a new gameplan and probably a new coach.

Also, the cap floor means that if we sit on our hands for too long, we just end up overpaying our current players and end up in a much worse spot than if we go and spend the money on somebody that's actually worth it.

 

[scaryness]

OK let me try again.

FACT Mumford was injured in the 2012 GF not benched.

The rest of your post was opinion based and in my opinion.....was nonsense.

Injured before the GF too. I remember the question of would we play him at all because no one was certain if it was going to rain or not.

 

[Kapanis]

They also won the hit-outs in the Preliminary Final 60-26 against the red hot favourites.

It's either him or Naismith, unless a youngster comes good. I think fit Sinclair is underrated as a ruck. Unfortunately he has looked exhausted for the last two years as he's had no real assistance. Daniher changes that IMO.

Sinkers tries hard, no denying but it's our biggest weakness ATM. I know there's not a lot around to try and get to the club but if we could our midfield would look a hellava lot better having half a chance at first use. Structurally it must be a nightmare to plan around losing hitouts in the middle and around the ground.

 

[caesar88]

The reason Geelong fail is that they have a gameplan that isn't conducive to winning finals. They're obviously good enough to get there and win it. They've beaten, and even smashed, every top 8 team, minus GWS and Brisbane, at one point this year, so they're clearly capable. Just need a new gameplan and probably a new coach.

Also, the cap floor means that if we sit on our hands for too long, we just end up overpaying our current players and end up in a much worse spot than if we go and spend the money on somebody that's actually worth it.

Overpaying our current players or being able to shore them up when they are out of contract? We have quite a few coming out of contract over the next few years, you and I both rate them very highly, I'd rather have the certainty of being able to afford to keep them because we didn't spend our money on someone that didn't improve us much.

 

[The Gong]

Apologies for interpreting your sarcasm as sniping.

If there is no one out there who suits our needs (midfielders > key defender > decent ruck) come October, I would rather us take no one. Have another quiet trade period despite the blowback we'd get for it. Save the cap space for when there will be players available. Don't just throw it all at a bright and shiny new toy just because they want to come to your club.

That is what Geelong have done, which is why they are stagnant (albeit in a good part of the ladder to be stagnant at!). It's also what Port Adelaide have done in recent years, and Essendon, and North Melbourne. A "door's open" policy that's seen none of them come even remotely close to a flag in the years since, and some have overtly come back to bite them in the arse.

I still think if an A grade key positional player becomes available then you grab them. Build a spine and then build a team around them. We can get those support players through so many means and we already have a lot of talented kids ready to break through.

Definitely agree that our midfield is our key issue but I wouldn't pass up Daniher.

I also like the idea of that freeing up McCartin to play as a KPD with Aliir. I'm trying to be patient with Melican but I'm starting to waver. Rampe needs to be playing on the opposition's third tall and not blokes a foot taller than him.

 

[Kapanis]

Yeah, and then what? Did the other three quarters just not happen?

They were up by more than two goals in the last, after the eagles fighting back, how'd that happen? With two minutes to go they were winning the game. You make it sound like they were getting flogged and a few crucial misses in the last aswell. Sometimes I think you just like arguing just for the sake of it.

 

[SSwans2011]

Sinkers tries hard, no denying but it's our biggest weakness ATM. I know there's not a lot around to try and get to the club but if we could our midfield would look a hellava lot better having half a chance at first use. Structurally it must be a nightmare to plan around losing hitouts in the middle and around the ground.

The problem is that you could probably count the real quality ruckmen in the league on two hands. Beyond that you inevitably end up trading off either ability in ruck contests or ability around the ground. It's pretty much the Naismith vs Sinclair argument.

Overpaying our current players or being able to shore them up when they are out of contract? We have quite a few coming out of contract over the next few years, you and I both rate them very highly, I'd rather have the certainty of being able to afford to keep them because we didn't spend our money on someone that didn't improve us much.

If we have as much money as it sounds like we do, overpaying them. If we can't bring in one big signing over five years and keep our own players, we have serious financial management issues.

 

[The Gong]

Injured before the GF too. I remember the question of would we play him at all because no one was certain if it was going to rain or not.

When he went down in the GF my stomach turned but Pyke was epic that day.

Mumford was an enforcer for us and a great ruck. Big loss when he left.

 

[CD__]

Papley currently in Melb hanging out with Nic Newman and AJ...not great.

 

[Kapanis]

He was in All-Australian form in 2016 before he went down as well. Just had hideous luck as a Swan. Bloke was a genuine gun and legitimate game-changer at his best IMHO.

I remember saying on here, can't remember what year, something along the lines of if Tippett gets injured we are buggered, he was that important to the team. Unfortunately he got injured.

 

[caesar88]

They were up by more than two goals in the last, after the ages fighting back, how'd that happen? With two minutes to go they were winning the game. You make it sound like they were getting flogged and a few crucial misses in the last aswell. Sometimes I think you just like arguing just for the sake of it.

They were getting out-played. When you remove yourself from the emotion of what ended up being a close game it was actually three quarters of all-Eagles to one quarter of all-Collingwood. But it's you who is arguing for the sake of arguing because you haven't actually addressed my original point which was that Collingwood had no answers for Shuey, and he was doing more damage single-handedly than all of Collingwood's midfield put together.

 

[scaryness]

Sinkers tries hard, no denying but it's our biggest weakness ATM. I know there's not a lot around to try and get to the club but if we could our midfield would look a hellava lot better having half a chance at first use. Structurally it must be a nightmare to plan around losing hitouts in the middle and around the ground.

Will refer back to this post I made in May, updated the 2019 ranks and stats.

Sinclair as #1 ruck

2018 team ranks
Hitouts for: 15th
Hitouts against: 1st

2019 team ranks
Hitouts for: 17th
Hitouts against: 2nd

In the 36 games he has played during this time the Swans have won the hitout stat only eight times. In those games he beat Charlie Dixon, Jon Patton, Tim English x2, Tom Hickey x2, Matthew Lobbe and Toby Nankervis.

In terms of solely looking at the bounces and throw-ins, Sinkers is almost certainly the worst starting ruckman in the league.

 

[RUNVS]

Papley currently in Melb hanging out with Nic Newman and AJ...not great.

Yeah that is not a great sign.