List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals Thread

[Skhilton14]

A few people have said this and I find this opinion gobsmacking.

It doesn't matter if tall forwards aren't our key problem, if a potentially generational key forward wants to come your way, you absolutely try to make it happen. He's likely the best player available to us and we'd be genuinely moronic to not go for him because we have other problems too. Ever thought that maybe no gun midfielders want to come our way without us being forced to overpay for them?

Daniher is a want, not a need.

You don't just sign players just because they're interested in your club, no matter their calibre, unless they fit a need imo. Daniher would be great, but sustained success doesn't stem from one man, as has been evident with our recruitment of Franklin. This TEAM has more pressing needs which, in my opinion, once dealt with will set us up for success for some time.

A strong midfield and backline will undoubtedly put us in a position to challenge for a premiership for many years to come to a much higher degree than one Joe Daniher will, no matter how talented he is.

We have an abundance of young, talented forwards who can take us forward. Neglecting other areas of the ground with the belief/hope that having someone like Daniher down the other end may paper over all the cracks is foolish and a waste of cap space. We have made this move before, and I don't want us to do it again. Perhaps if our midfield and backline were in a better condition then Daniher would be a great fit. But, as it stands, I don't think he is what we need or want right now.

No gun midfielders or defenders wanting to come to us at an adequate price would not justify our recruitment of Daniher, imo. That is a "oh well, we can't get anyone else so we may as well take what we can get" attitude, which doesn't advance the teams needs in the long term.

 

[Teddy chester]

Can see joe heading to swans for 2021 season (FA) if he decides for a fresh start. I don’t think the swans will part with top pick and trading with the Essendon list manager seems a nightmare. Another year to get his body right probably sits ok with most at the swans anyway. Unfortunate for joe if he wants out considering he would want a long term deal in the bag given his injury troubles

 

[SSwans2011]

Daniher is a want, not a need.

You don't just sign players just because they're interested in your club, no matter their calibre, unless they fit a need imo. Daniher would be great, but sustained success doesn't stem from one man, as has been evident with our recruitment of Franklin. This TEAM has more pressing needs which, in my opinion, once dealt with will set us up for success for some time.

A strong midfield and backline will undoubtedly put us in a position to challenge for a premiership for many years to come to a much higher degree than one Joe Daniher will, no matter how talented he is.

We have an abundance of young, talented forwards who can take us forward. Neglecting other areas of the ground with the belief/hope that having someone like Daniher down the other end may paper over all the cracks is foolish and a waste of cap space. We have made this move before, and I don't want us to do it again. Perhaps if our midfield and backline were in a better condition then Daniher would be a great fit. But, as it stands, I don't think he is what we need or want right now.

No gun midfielders or defenders wanting to come to us at an adequate price would not justify our recruitment of Daniher, imo. That is a "oh well, we can't get anyone else so we may as well take what we can get" attitude, which doesn't advance the teams needs in the long term.

"An abundance of young talented forwards"

We have one young talented key forward who may end up a key defender, Buddy (33 next year), and Sam Reid. You're kidding yourself if you don't think a KPF who was AA at the age of 23 will lead to long-term improvement.

 

[Haychh]

Also, Beatson suggested that we were willing to off load pick 4 if we got what we wanted & he also suggested that there are always some good picks later in the draft as they are often hidden there. Then should Papley end up at Carlton for pick 8, I believe we will then have the right picks to land some big guns to our club.

So hypothetically, here goes.
Pick 4 & 23 to GWS for picks 11, 13 & 49.
Papley to Carlton for pick 8 & Marchbank(overs I know because they want Paps)
Pick 13 & Jones to Essendon for Daniher.
Picks 8 & 11 (two first round picks) to Collingwood for Grundy. Throw in Cameron as it was mentioned this morning they have shown an interest in him.

Of course not as straight forward as that but work around those picks with a few tweaks of picks & players.

Wait... so you're saying your trade period you are hoping to net the following:

In: Marchbank, Daniher, Grundy + 49

Out: 4, 23, Papley, Jones



You wouldn't even get Grundy alone for that

 

[Skhilton14]

"An abundance of young talented forwards"

We have one young talented key forward, Buddy (33 next year), and Sam Reid. You're kidding yourself if you don't think a KPF who was AA at the age of 23 will lead to long-term improvement.

McCartin, Blakey, Heeney don't exist...? Add Reid to that group=an abundance.

Did you even read my post. One man does not equal team success. Like I said, Daniher would be a beneficial addition IF other areas of the side did't need the attention they do right now.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree!

 

[SSwans2011]

Also, we have a midfield of: JPK, Parker, Heeney, Hewett, Rowbottom, Florent and Cunningham, with the likes of Blakey, Dawson, Mills and Papley able to rotate through there.

The midfield problems are seriously overstated. The problem is we rarely get first use, and there's not exactly a wealth of great young rucks we can target that would be keen to come here.

 

[SSwans2011]

McCartin, Blakey, Heeney don't exist...? Add Reid to that group=an abundance.

Did you even read my post. One man does not equal team success. Like I said, Daniher would be a beneficial addition IF other areas of the side did't need the attention they do right now.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree!

Blakey and Heeney are not key forwards. Reid turns 28 next year and averages 1.07 goals a game. Daniher turns 26 and averages 1.8 goals a game. In his last full season Daniher kicked 65 goals. Reid played a full season this season and kicked 28 goals. Daniher can win us the football out of the middle. Reid cannot.

 

[Skhilton14]

Also, we have a midfield of: JPK, Parker, Heeney, Hewett, Rowbottom, Florent and Cunningham, with the likes of Blakey, Dawson, Mills and Papley able to rotate through there.

The midfield problems are seriously overstated. The problem is we rarely get first use, and there's not exactly a wealth of great young rucks we can target that would be keen to come here.

Oh, there's no rucks so lets take a forward instead!! Makes sense....

 

[Tedeski]

We won’t be getting both mate

Our cap

Yeah I know we won't but just showing why we may be entertaining the idea of trading Papley. Because it will open doors up.
Replace Grundy with Wines or Moore or someone else that becomes an instant top 10 player in our team, & adjust picks accordingly.

 

[SSwans2011]

Oh, there's no rucks so lets take a forward instead!! Makes sense....

Oh there's no rucks, so let's wait until one suddenly appears and not take this generational key forward we have a chance to pick-up...

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

We're all making it too complicated.

4 for Daniher.
Papley for 8.
Jones for Saints' 2020 1st pick.
Cameron for Carlton's 2020 3rd pick (or maybe 2nd as steak knives for Papley).

 

[RUNVS]

Also, we have a midfield of: JPK, Parker, Heeney, Hewett, Rowbottom, Florent and Cunningham, with the likes of Blakey, Dawson, Mills and Papley able to rotate through there.

The midfield problems are seriously overstated. The problem is we rarely get first use, and there's not exactly a wealth of great young rucks we can target that would be keen to come here.

Except Heeney spends much of his time in the forward line, Mills is almost exclusively played as a defender and Hewett is only ever allowed to tag people.

So of your list Parker, Kennedy, Florent, Rowbottom and Cunningham are really the only proper midfielders.

 

[Olian]

McCartin, Blakey, Heeney don't exist...? Add Reid to that group=an abundance.

Did you even read my post. One man does not equal team success. Like I said, Daniher would be a beneficial addition IF other areas of the side did't need the attention they do right now.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree!

Blakey will end up the ground so isn’t a long term forward option.
McCartin has looked better down back where Melican has failed to deliver.

So you are left with Heeney and then Reid who will be 29 next year not quite your emerging player.
Forward line could do well with Daniher in it.

 

[SSwans2011]

Except Heeney spends much of his time in the forward line, Mills is almost exclusively played as a defender and Hewett is only ever allowed to tag people.

So of your list Parker, Kennedy, Florent, Rowbottom and Cunningham are really the only proper midfielders.

Hewett still plays in the midfield and 6 midfielders with 1 rotation on the bench, and a few rotations in the forward and backline is pretty standard. How many pure midfielders are you expecting us to play?

 

[Skhilton14]

Blakey and Heeney are not key forwards. Reid turns 28 next year and averages 1.07 goals a game. Daniher turns 26 and averages 1.8 goals a game. In his last full season Daniher kicked 65 goals. Reid played a full season this season and kicked 28 goals.

Who says we need big key forwards? I said we have an abundance of young, talented forwards. We've had the big key forward since 2012 and haven't won a premiership since. Richmond won in 2017 without one, Collingwood made GF last year and at least prelim this year without a big key forward. They aren't essential to success. However, we have McCartin and Reid on our list to fill that position in the future anyway, even if they are so essential. Not to mention the rotation of big men that can play through there also, Sinclair, McLean, Cameron (if still with us), Knoll, or Amartey.

 

[tombomb]

Also, Beatson suggested that we were willing to off load pick 4 if we got what we wanted & he also suggested that there are always some good picks later in the draft as they are often hidden there. Then should Papley end up at Carlton for pick 8, I believe we will then have the right picks to land some big guns to our club.

So hypothetically, here goes.
Pick 4 & 23 to GWS for picks 11, 13 & 49.
Papley to Carlton for pick 8 & Marchbank(overs I know because they want Paps)
Pick 13 & Jones to Essendon for Daniher.
Picks 8 & 11 (two first round picks) to Collingwood for Grundy. Throw in Cameron as it was mentioned this morning they have shown an interest in him.

Of course not as straight forward as that but work around those picks with a few tweaks of picks & players.

I like how the issue you seem to have with your own post is that we would be getting overs for Papley ...

You don't see any issue at all with your suggested trade for Grundy? In what world would Collingwood trade Grundy to us for 8 and 11?

 

[SSwans2011]

Who says we need big key forwards? I said we have an abundance of young, talented forwards. We've had the big key forward since 2012 and haven't won a premiership since. Richmond won in 2017 without one, Collingwood made GF last year and at least prelim this year without a big key forward.

How much better do we look with Franklin in the team? We need something to kick to. Also cute cherry picking, the majority of teams in the top 8 have very solid key forwards.

They aren't essential to success. However, we have McCartin and Reid on our list to fill that position in the future anyway, even if they are so essential.

Yep, the 28 goals Reid kicked in what was close to a career-best year will take us a long way towards our next Premiership.

Not to mention the rotation of big men that can play through there also, Sinclair, McLean, Cameron (if still with us), Knoll, or Amartey.

No real disrespect to any of those players, but I just spewed in my mouth.

 

[Skhilton14]

Blakey will end up the ground so isn’t a long term forward option.
McCartin has looked better down back where Melican has failed to deliver.

So you are left with Heeney and then Reid who will be 29 next year not quite your emerging player.
Forward line could do well with Daniher in it.

Where's my crystal ball!?! I didn't know so many could see into the future. McCartin may very well stay forward, as has been pointed out, he is only 19 and held down the CHF position last season as the youngest player in the league; he is a natural forward.
Where Blakey plays is still unknown, however, I do concede that a midfield move is likely due to him being played on the wing at times this season and his noted talent when playing there in the u18s.

So we still have McCartin, Heeney, Reid, plus a rotating ruckman.

All season it has been noted on this site time and time again that our primary needs are the midfield and backline. Im not denying that Daniher would improve the side, he would improve any side, what I'm arguing is that his addition will not improve the side and provide sustained success as much as fixing the two aforementioned areas will, imo.

 

[Skhilton14]

How much better do we look with Franklin in the team? We need something to kick to. Also cute cherry picking, the majority of teams in the top 8 have very solid key forwards.

Yep, the 28 goals Reid kicked in what was close to a career-best year will take us a long way towards our next Premiership.

No real disrespect to any of those players, but I just spewed in my mouth.

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[caesar88]

I quite like that idea actually as the midfielders we want are not really in the top 10 anyway. It is almost a waste to have pick 4 this year based on players available at that range and what we actually want.

Aren't they? Which midfielders do you want in this year's draft that aren't Rowell, Anderson, Serong, Green or Kemp?

 

[RUNVS]

Aren't they? Which midfielders do you want in this year's draft that aren't Rowell, Anderson, Serong, Green or Kemp?

Not getting Rowell and Anderson as they will be gone in the first two picks. Serong will likely be gone as well.

Green is going to GWS and Kemp has a massive question mark over him due to his ACL injury.

 

[Tesla Tenet]

Well, I am getting ready for the start of the Daniher, Papley, Jones trade race.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[GotTheGoodes]

I feel for poor Hayward... being left out of all your bickering about our forward line...

McCartin, Hayward, Paps, Ronke, Heens, Dawson... It's not like we don't have young options.

Likewise, we have some pretty good older options around Buddy too in Reid, Cunners, Sinkers, Menz, Parker, Hewy... Who can all float forward and play a solid role there.

It's our defenders I am worried about. Melican has a heap of pressure on his shoulders. Rampe is now our "leader" and without a Smitty, who takes that elite small forward (like Cameron) from now on? Likewise, do we trust Melican/Rampe on the big tall marking Forwards (or Fwd/Ruc) options?

Replacing Reg, Smitty & Macca out of that defensive half of the ground is a ridiculously huge task... One I am very weary of overlooking.

 

[caesar88]

A few people have said this and I find this opinion gobsmacking.

It doesn't matter if tall forwards aren't our key problem, if a potentially generational key forward wants to come your way, you absolutely try to make it happen. He's likely the best player available to us and we'd be genuinely moronic to not go for him because we have other problems too. Ever thought that maybe no gun midfielders want to come our way without us being forced to overpay for them?

And yet I find this option gobsmacking.

If you don't fix the areas that are your weaknesses, and instead over-indulge in one of your strengths (let's face it our forward line functioned well this year all things considering and our forward stocks are stronger than elsewhere), then that just creates an even more unbalanced squad. There is zero point loading up on a talent-laden forward line if the game's going to be parked in your defensive half, like it currently is. Massive waste of salary cap space and spots on the list.

 

[SSwans2011]

And yet I find this option gobsmacking.

If you don't fix the areas that are your weaknesses, and instead over-indulge in one of your strengths (let's face it our forward line functioned well this year all things considering and our forward stocks are stronger than elsewhere), then that just creates an even more unbalanced squad. There is zero point loading up on a talent-laden forward line if the game's going to be parked in your defensive half, like it currently is. Massive waste of salary cap space and spots on the list.

Well, how do you suppose we go about signing a gun ruck if none want to come here?