Opine
Norm Smith Medallist
- Aug 30, 2018
- 7,352
- 12,278
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Its all good Harks. It'd be boring if we only had one side of an argument to digest. I may not agree with you, but I enjoy reading your posts.
Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II
- Thread starter The Smoking Gun
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
I just want us to do better in areas we've been lacking in.
It's not to be pushing forward a petition to sack SOS.
I want us to be cohesive and function as one and not spend time looking over our shoulders.
This Carlton should have passed away a long time ago, but it keeps rearing its ugly head.
Thought i would brake the list up into positional areas where players do play and are going to play their best footy for 2020 and beyond, still a heap of upside to come from the 24yrs and under draftees we've assembled so far and some great player pick ups particularly in the last two trade / DFA periods.
I think the list changes we made end of year were close to spot on although Kerr and Thomas maybe imo a little unlucky for obvious reasons, missing Papley was very disappointing but we get another chance in the draft to use pick9 however we want and have added much higher upgrades in Betts Newnes Pittonett and Martin as replacements.
MIDFIELDERS (going by age from Dec this year)
Marc Murphy 32yrs outside class thought he wound the clock back with he's defensive game under Teaguey
Ed Curnow 30yrs wonderful inside gut runner still underrated very important role every week
Patrick Cripps 24yrs inside champion outside game and goal scoring this year suburb 2020 Brownlow a lock
Micheal Gibbons 24yrs great two way runner should see a little more midfield game time
Cameron Polson 22yrs has a crack but lacks the poise decision making and kicking skills atm to become a player
Sam Petrevski-seton 21yrs class breakout game v Bulldogs consistency will elevate to next level
Zac Fisher 21yrs talented small very clever needs more strength shown some glimpses needs consistency!
Will Setterfield 21yrs trekking well after ACL huge upside can play inside elite hands and footy IQ
Paddy Dow 20yrs quick inside/outside with major upside when he gets he's endurance to a required level
Sam Walsh 19yrs absolute gun running machine high footy IQ tough inside/outside future captain
Liam Stocker 19yrs tough and classy inside beast elite on both feet and at stoppages from GOAT draft
RUCKMAN
Mathew Kruezer 30yrs heart and sole injuries have cruelly cost the best of him still plays at a high level when fit
Marc Pittonett 23yrs don't know much but he's aggressive and a good palmer of the ball strong mark too
Sam DeKoning 20yrs part next great ruck batch obviously needs to build strength and endurance has plenty of time
KEY DEFENDERS
Levi Casboult 30yrs found he's niche can pinch hit in ruck will be important match ups when required
Liam Jones 28yrs done extremely well in short time down back if he can play tighter has another level
Hugh Goddard 23yrs will have to improve his strength for one on one contests for next level solid year for NB's
Caleb Marchbank 23yrs injury riddled so far courageous clever interceptor who needs to work on his kicking
Jacob Weitering 22yrs just about to explode to AA level class act who will be our rock down back next decade
Harry Macreadie 21yrs injury riddled athletic backman with good pace crucial year to get back on track
DEFENDERS
Kade Simpson 35yrs busts his guts every week still playing at a good level important leader for the club
Sam Docherty 26yrs gun bloke/player we've missed enormously can't wait to see him leading the boys again
Nic Newman 26yrs great pickup by the club covered Doc and Willo down back with arguably his best season
Lachie Plowman 25yrs hitting his prime slowish start gets the tough jobs kept getting better as the year went superb
Tom Williamson 21yrs injury riddled young gun only needs a uninterrupted run and his a lock best22
Mathew Cottrell 19yrs played some handy games for NB's has a great tank and can find the ball, needs to build up
WINGS
Jack Newnes 26yrs superb two way runner with good pace and clever evasive skills and hard at it goal kicker
Louie O'Brien 20yrs also superb two way runner who showed some very good traits throughout the year, player.
Martin Williamson Cuningham i can see playing roles on occasions as well
KEY FORWARDS
Mitch McGovern 25yrs smart exciting player who can sit on heads looked good when fit and injury free
Charlie Curnow 22yrs Xfactor match winner can tear a game apart, fair share of injuries so farGUN
Harry McKay 22yrs awesome 204cm athlete quick and agile carried groin injury throughout year affected kicking
Jack Silvagni 22yrs very clever player who works his arse off and went up a level, forward and onball duties
Ben Silvagni 19yrs moves well for 197cm kid imo looks a natural forward who obviously needs time to fill out
FOWARDS
Eddie Betts 33yrs our only natural small forward says it all, will play a big role on field and off for the club,
Darcy Lang 24yrs frustrating player who once looked to have certain traits to be a player, big doubts
Jack Martin 24yrs very talented player who has been disappointing last two seasons, exact type player we need
David Cuningham 22yrs injury riddled but enormous upside explosive player who will eventually go through midfield
Mathew Owies 22yrs improved throughout the season kicking a couple of bags of 5 looks an interesting prospect
Mathew Kennedy 22yrs injury has had an impact, if he can get his endurance up can play mid, a lot ahead of him
So draft night will see us complete the list with imo some obvious areas that need attention, without backing over what I've posted before on occasion the small and medium forwards are at the top of the list, players with speed and good skills are the other.
Betts is our only pure small forward Martin and Cuningham have the talent to play there as well as higher up the ground if needed but we are a couple of kids short that will add to the balance of our list that can develop and when ready or needed can be called upon to step in to fill that roll.
Our key forwards and defenders are looking in strong shape provided none of them have any (other) injury setbacks or long injury layoffs.
The midfield group looks to have great depth so even when the likes of Murph and Ed are retiring we have a great nucleus ready to take us forward, whether we grab a star through trade along the way or go through the draft.
Kruezer will have to be replaced list wise when his time is up hopefully if he can get another 2/3 years with a good run of injury that will have DeKoning at around 22/23yrs to take over.
We all see things a little differently and this is just an opinion on how i view our list atm...
I think the list changes we made end of year were close to spot on although Kerr and Thomas maybe imo a little unlucky for obvious reasons, missing Papley was very disappointing but we get another chance in the draft to use pick9 however we want and have added much higher upgrades in Betts Newnes Pittonett and Martin as replacements.
MIDFIELDERS (going by age from Dec this year)
Marc Murphy 32yrs outside class thought he wound the clock back with he's defensive game under Teaguey
Ed Curnow 30yrs wonderful inside gut runner still underrated very important role every week
Patrick Cripps 24yrs inside champion outside game and goal scoring this year suburb 2020 Brownlow a lock
Micheal Gibbons 24yrs great two way runner should see a little more midfield game time
Cameron Polson 22yrs has a crack but lacks the poise decision making and kicking skills atm to become a player
Sam Petrevski-seton 21yrs class breakout game v Bulldogs consistency will elevate to next level
Zac Fisher 21yrs talented small very clever needs more strength shown some glimpses needs consistency!
Will Setterfield 21yrs trekking well after ACL huge upside can play inside elite hands and footy IQ
Paddy Dow 20yrs quick inside/outside with major upside when he gets he's endurance to a required level
Sam Walsh 19yrs absolute gun running machine high footy IQ tough inside/outside future captain
Liam Stocker 19yrs tough and classy inside beast elite on both feet and at stoppages from GOAT draft
RUCKMAN
Mathew Kruezer 30yrs heart and sole injuries have cruelly cost the best of him still plays at a high level when fit
Marc Pittonett 23yrs don't know much but he's aggressive and a good palmer of the ball strong mark too
Sam DeKoning 20yrs part next great ruck batch obviously needs to build strength and endurance has plenty of time
KEY DEFENDERS
Levi Casboult 30yrs found he's niche can pinch hit in ruck will be important match ups when required
Liam Jones 28yrs done extremely well in short time down back if he can play tighter has another level
Hugh Goddard 23yrs will have to improve his strength for one on one contests for next level solid year for NB's
Caleb Marchbank 23yrs injury riddled so far courageous clever interceptor who needs to work on his kicking
Jacob Weitering 22yrs just about to explode to AA level class act who will be our rock down back next decade
Harry Macreadie 21yrs injury riddled athletic backman with good pace crucial year to get back on track
DEFENDERS
Kade Simpson 35yrs busts his guts every week still playing at a good level important leader for the club
Sam Docherty 26yrs gun bloke/player we've missed enormously can't wait to see him leading the boys again
Nic Newman 26yrs great pickup by the club covered Doc and Willo down back with arguably his best season
Lachie Plowman 25yrs hitting his prime slowish start gets the tough jobs kept getting better as the year went superb
Tom Williamson 21yrs injury riddled young gun only needs a uninterrupted run and his a lock best22
Mathew Cottrell 19yrs played some handy games for NB's has a great tank and can find the ball, needs to build up
WINGS
Jack Newnes 26yrs superb two way runner with good pace and clever evasive skills and hard at it goal kicker
Louie O'Brien 20yrs also superb two way runner who showed some very good traits throughout the year, player.
Martin Williamson Cuningham i can see playing roles on occasions as well
KEY FORWARDS
Mitch McGovern 25yrs smart exciting player who can sit on heads looked good when fit and injury free
Charlie Curnow 22yrs Xfactor match winner can tear a game apart, fair share of injuries so far
GUN Harry McKay 22yrs awesome 204cm athlete quick and agile carried groin injury throughout year affected kicking
Jack Silvagni 22yrs very clever player who works his arse off and went up a level, forward and onball duties
Ben Silvagni 19yrs moves well for 197cm kid imo looks a natural forward who obviously needs time to fill out
FOWARDS
Eddie Betts 33yrs our only natural small forward says it all, will play a big role on field and off for the club,
Darcy Lang 24yrs frustrating player who once looked to have certain traits to be a player, big doubts
Jack Martin 24yrs very talented player who has been disappointing last two seasons, exact type player we need
David Cuningham 22yrs injury riddled but enormous upside explosive player who will eventually go through midfield
Mathew Owies 22yrs improved throughout the season kicking a couple of bags of 5 looks an interesting prospect
Mathew Kennedy 22yrs injury has had an impact, if he can get his endurance up can play mid, a lot ahead of him
So draft night will see us complete the list with imo some obvious areas that need attention, without backing over what I've posted before on occasion the small and medium forwards are at the top of the list, players with speed and good skills are the other.
Betts is our only pure small forward Martin and Cuningham have the talent to play there as well as higher up the ground if needed but we are a couple of kids short that will add to the balance of our list that can develop and when ready or needed can be called upon to step in to fill that roll.
Our key forwards and defenders are looking in strong shape provided none of them have any (other) injury setbacks or long injury layoffs.
The midfield group looks to have great depth so even when the likes of Murph and Ed are retiring we have a great nucleus ready to take us forward, whether we grab a star through trade along the way or go through the draft.
Kruezer will have to be replaced list wise when his time is up hopefully if he can get another 2/3 years with a good run of injury that will have DeKoning at around 22/23yrs to take over.
We all see things a little differently and this is just an opinion on how i view our list atm...
49,959 Posts and counting.
It must be a compulsion I suppose.
Fair point. Just like to get in and out of threads asap.
It's like going to the supermarket. First think that comes to mind is how quick can I get out of here? Very quickly actually.
Very early days of course but listening to the early drums;
1. If Martin comes on board, he'll be played forward
2. SPS a likely back-line starter
3. Everyone loves Setterfield.
4. Betts plays forward of course.
5. Newnes a likely starter. Guessing here but expecting it.
If all those guys start on-field next year -
Simpson Jones Plowman
SPS Weitering Docherty
Kreuzer ECurnow Murphy
Walsh Cripps Setterfield
Martin CCurnow Cuningham
Betts McKay McGovern
Newnes Fisher ****** & ******
Final two spots may have the likes of Dow, Newman, Kennedy, JSilvagni and Gibbons involved, having three miss out.
O'Brien, Casboult and Stocker just off the starting pace, although Casboult may be needed as a back-up ruckman.
Marchbank & Williamson are unlikely starters for mine.
Coming from some way back and may need real game time away from the firsts.
Will be interesting should one of the draftees work their way into a start spot.
1. If Martin comes on board, he'll be played forward
2. SPS a likely back-line starter
3. Everyone loves Setterfield.
4. Betts plays forward of course.
5. Newnes a likely starter. Guessing here but expecting it.
If all those guys start on-field next year -
Simpson Jones Plowman
SPS Weitering Docherty
Kreuzer ECurnow Murphy
Walsh Cripps Setterfield
Martin CCurnow Cuningham
Betts McKay McGovern
Newnes Fisher ****** & ******
Final two spots may have the likes of Dow, Newman, Kennedy, JSilvagni and Gibbons involved, having three miss out.
O'Brien, Casboult and Stocker just off the starting pace, although Casboult may be needed as a back-up ruckman.
Marchbank & Williamson are unlikely starters for mine.
Coming from some way back and may need real game time away from the firsts.
Will be interesting should one of the draftees work their way into a start spot.
I would like to rationalise and point out a couple of issues with what you raise.
You speak of "missed opportunities", which I assume relates to speculative kids late in the draft as opposed to the regularly put forward list of mature "spuds" we added to the list.
It is well known that SOS has been using some adaptation of an American computer model for drafting purposes. If we were to assess such a program, then surely it would need a decent run. (I am certainly not supporting the use of such a thing as I am largely of the view that you first make a clinical selection based on data and information at hand, but then apply an intuitive, seat of the pants judgement based as much on gut as tangibles. We are assessing people, not machines). If the club adopted for the model based on faith and judgement, a three to four year assessment is a very small sample size. I am no gridiron expert, but from my limited knowledge, I know that a significant portion of their lists spend very limited time on the ground and have very specific jobs which very much can be assessed from statistics. Not so much from our more complex game with all players required to contribute in multiple aspects for pretty much the entire game.
Strange as it may sound, perhaps we wanted to ensure that some of our late picks were not going to command long term list spots. Our age profile has been skewed and remains so. Some were genuinely recruited as deliberate (very) short term prospects. A quick look at our current list shows that even with retirees, we are going to find delistings very difficult in years to come. If we had kicked goals with speculative picks, it would be nigh on impossible beyond 2020.
Other than developing or finding another one or two long term small/medium forwards, our list is pretty set. It can be argued that we need a dashing exit player from defence. We are going to need another developing/depth ruckman soon Kreuze, Pittonet, TDK and Levi are sufficient short term, but certainly we have to look to the future in the 2020 draft. An incremental improvement in our footspeed and ball movement would help but we have sufficient cover and developing to get the job done.
Other than the small forward vaccuum, the list is in spectacular shape. We missed the trade boat, I am sure I will rankle a couple with the comment, but I would be happy to draft for needs this year (and next)
Last edited:
I think that software may have left the building.
Every pick is speculative if you want to look at it that way and the deeper you go down the draft the more speculative those picks become. That's fine and no one is asking for a 100% hit rate but some of the guys we brought in; 1. Didn't even seem to want to be there 2. Had no reason to be there from any potential needs perspective. In other words, they were totally useless.
As for wishing for our late picks to fail and therefore not attract long term list spots? That's not the way you do business nor is the way to do business to load up on the same types over and again and for anyone that doesn't understand this - How much VFL football did they watch? No team balance even if we had close to a full AFL-listed squad and the funny thing was, that the more AFL-listed players that fell off the roster the better the NB's became. This was no formula for proper development and we've paid the price for it.
Small forward vacuum - Have a good look at what we did and you'll see why that vacuum came about and this is a major point.
We held onto LeBois for three years and he couldn't find the ball to save himself. We held onto him because we somehow didn't look beyond him.
Pickett though was a loss, whether he made for a forward or not. He had what we needed but didn't give what we wanted. Pity.
- Moderator
- #3,909
49,959 Posts and counting.
It must be a compulsion I suppose.
He would be close to over 70K posts by now but deletes nearly 100 posts every few days.
Something something about reaching 50K posts.
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #3,911
Love it. Newman & Silvagni in for mine, with Gibbons & Dow the unlucky emergencies. Silvagni is a must IMO if Kreuzer is the stand alone ruckman.
Makes you wonder if they get it then doesn't it? We're doing it right and they think we should be doing it another way? That's a worry. Hopefully all are on the same page now. If Lloyd and Liddle aren't happy with what we have been doing and we make finals next year they are going to look like fools. But hey I have heard it all before, I remember all the flack Richmond copped, even up until the early part of the 2017 season.
We've set standards that have ruled out a lot of talent with later picks. It's clear we have not been willing to take players who require a really strong club culture. You do that and that probably rules out most of the talent in later rounds. I'm happy we have done that. We've done it the other way in the past and the bad apple effect it created was irreparable.
What Richmond have done is great and yes. Richmond would be happy with what they have built and how they have built it and they would not give a rats arse that they waited until the back end of their rebuild. Richmond didn't win premierships because they finally picked up players in the rookie draft. They won premierships because they had a lot of top 30 picks which they nailed a lot of, had a good foundation to build on and were able to carry a few of them through and they worked really hard building club culture and support staff and they timed it all to perfection. They brought in the slow developers early, they got some good players from other clubs and once their leadership and club culture was set in stone and all the key positions were filled they then began to target some quick developing types and players who were left until late for good reason and it worked out. That latter part we are only just arriving at now which is why I don't get all the fuss.
This is what you're not understanding. We limited ourselves to players who demonstrate leadership and work ethic and would contribute in a positive way when we began our list build. This is why we got rid of who we did and brought in who we have brought in. In junior football there are heaps of kids who have the talent but don't get drafted or are left until late because they don't interview well and are not perceived to be fitting personalities. If you rule these types out then chances of finding players late in the draft becomes very very slim. Clubs who do take these types and have success with them are the clubs who have a quality and mature list and strong leadership and have good development people like Andrew Russell. We have only just become a club who could consider drafting players who need a lot of development and leadership behind them.
It's all well and good to look at Richmond and be annoyed that they draft a lot of good players late in the draft but what we need to remember is that they needed to get their club up to a point where they could accommodate those players and make them work. They had to earn it before they could take the shackles off, go for absolutely anyone and be good enough to develop them. We are still earning it.
Turn that around and have us draft those players into a young and impressionable group and you find that those players don't turn out and whatever bad habits they bring seep through the rest of the playing list and you get a team that teases a lot but never reaches its potential and lacks that hard edge and professionalism. You get to relive the Ratten-Malthouse era.
Balme is good at what he does but most of the work was done at Richmond before he arrived. You've got a 7 year rebuild and he rocks up the year before they win the flag, he probably hasn't done a heap but he's certainly doing no harm. Just good timing, a bit like Ross Lyon's coaching career.
The main thing about the Tigers is they were allowed to build a strong team over a good amount of time and they have put focus on club culture, youth and rebuilding in the correct order. Talls and mids first, strong defence then the rest. No different to what we are doing to what they did apart from them starting with a stronger team and playing foundation and us requiring a far greater cleanout.
It's fair to demand that we should do better in the rookie draft but I think demanding that we should have been finding players there the whole way through probably shows a little lack of understanding when it comes to the talented players available then and what baggage they come with and also what we are trying to build within the club, that it's not just about finding talent and picking the best available, that it's about building a club culture that will eventually see all players who come in take on a professional and hard working approach to their football. A lot of those players need to go to the right club to succeed and we have not been that club until recently. When you can bring a player or players to a club and the club influence the player (positively) and not the other way around then you can take who you like in the rookie draft but until then the club needs to be careful who they select and end of the day, players left until the end, it's because clubs are unsure of their ability or because they didn't pass the personality tests.
I really really hope but have my doubts that Lloyd and Liddle understand this. There are a hell of a lot of people who just think you just take the best player available every time and by doing that things will work out when that's not how it works at all.
I think what you will find now is that we will be recruiting players who turn out from our last picks. Targeting types who typically end up going late like small forwards and underdeveloped midfielders and with the personality restrictions lifted a bit it opens up a lot of talent. Not only that, it appears they will be coming into a very professional and hard working environment which is what a lot of late picks and rookie picks need to get them going.
There is a hell of a lot more to it than just our selections have been poor. End of the day we are still rebuilding which is perfectly fair considering rebuilds usually take 7 years give or take and it's not just a list that has been getting built, it's culture and work ethic as well which means talent is not the only reason why we select a player. In fact it's probably fair to say that personality has come before talent with our drafting and I am perfectly fine with that.
This is why I am not the least concerned with our rookie drafting. That's something we are building up to.
Last edited:
This is somehow a big deal to you as you have the need to mention it time and again.
What's the problem? I stated my reasons and if you don't like them that's fine.
So what is your problem or are you just baiting me so that you can ban me again and call it an attack on a mod? Is that it? Be honest.
Why have you the need to keep using your 'privileged' position in order to highlight aspects about posters you really have no reason to do?
How do you see us building up to it though?
By getting better at what we do is a good start, but wouldn't having been more attentive to it from the get-go been better?
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #3,916
might be time for another sulky sabbatical?
What's your angle Thy?
Why all the hate or is that just the real you under the guise of a 'nice guy' you self-proclaim to be?
What's your problem. Tell me. What is it that offends you so much?
Am I not worthy of posting here and that should be reserved for real people like you? is that it?
EDIT: Come on....been waiting for a reply. Don't think....just be honest
Please tell me you've finished..
Thought i would brake the list up into positional areas where players do play and are going to play their best footy for 2020 and beyond, still a heap of upside to come from the 24yrs and under draftees we've assembled so far and some great player pick ups particularly in the last two trade / DFA periods.
I think the list changes we made end of year were close to spot on although Kerr and Thomas maybe imo a little unlucky for obvious reasons, missing Papley was very disappointing but we get another chance in the draft to use pick9 however we want and have added much higher upgrades in Betts Newnes Pittonett and Martin as replacements.
MIDFIELDERS (going by age from Dec this year)
Marc Murphy 32yrs outside class thought he wound the clock back with he's defensive game under Teaguey
Ed Curnow 30yrs wonderful inside gut runner still underrated very important role every week
Patrick Cripps 24yrs inside champion outside game and goal scoring this year suburb 2020 Brownlow a lock
Micheal Gibbons 24yrs great two way runner should see a little more midfield game time
Cameron Polson 22yrs has a crack but lacks the poise decision making and kicking skills atm to become a player
Sam Petrevski-seton 21yrs class breakout game v Bulldogs consistency will elevate to next level
Zac Fisher 21yrs talented small very clever needs more strength shown some glimpses needs consistency!
Will Setterfield 21yrs trekking well after ACL huge upside can play inside elite hands and footy IQ
Paddy Dow 20yrs quick inside/outside with major upside when he gets he's endurance to a required level
Sam Walsh 19yrs absolute gun running machine high footy IQ tough inside/outside future captain
Liam Stocker 19yrs tough and classy inside beast elite on both feet and at stoppages from GOAT draft
RUCKMAN
Mathew Kruezer 30yrs heart and sole injuries have cruelly cost the best of him still plays at a high level when fit
Marc Pittonett 23yrs don't know much but he's aggressive and a good palmer of the ball strong mark too
Sam DeKoning 20yrs part next great ruck batch obviously needs to build strength and endurance has plenty of time
KEY DEFENDERS
Levi Casboult 30yrs found he's niche can pinch hit in ruck will be important match ups when required
Liam Jones 28yrs done extremely well in short time down back if he can play tighter has another level
Hugh Goddard 23yrs will have to improve his strength for one on one contests for next level solid year for NB's
Caleb Marchbank 23yrs injury riddled so far courageous clever interceptor who needs to work on his kicking
Jacob Weitering 22yrs just about to explode to AA level class act who will be our rock down back next decade
Harry Macreadie 21yrs injury riddled athletic backman with good pace crucial year to get back on track
DEFENDERS
Kade Simpson 35yrs busts his guts every week still playing at a good level important leader for the club
Sam Docherty 26yrs gun bloke/player we've missed enormously can't wait to see him leading the boys again
Nic Newman 26yrs great pickup by the club covered Doc and Willo down back with arguably his best season
Lachie Plowman 25yrs hitting his prime slowish start gets the tough jobs kept getting better as the year went superb
Tom Williamson 21yrs injury riddled young gun only needs a uninterrupted run and his a lock best22
Mathew Cottrell 19yrs played some handy games for NB's has a great tank and can find the ball, needs to build up
WINGS
Jack Newnes 26yrs superb two way runner with good pace and clever evasive skills and hard at it goal kicker
Louie O'Brien 20yrs also superb two way runner who showed some very good traits throughout the year, player.
Martin Williamson Cuningham i can see playing roles on occasions as well
KEY FORWARDS
Mitch McGovern 25yrs smart exciting player who can sit on heads looked good when fit and injury free
Charlie Curnow 22yrs Xfactor match winner can tear a game apart, fair share of injuries so far
Harry McKay 22yrs awesome 204cm athlete quick and agile carried groin injury throughout year affected kicking
Jack Silvagni 22yrs very clever player who works his arse off and went up a level, forward and onball duties
Ben Silvagni 19yrs moves well for 197cm kid imo looks a natural forward who obviously needs time to fill out
FOWARDS
Eddie Betts 33yrs our only natural small forward says it all, will play a big role on field and off for the club,
Darcy Lang 24yrs frustrating player who once looked to have certain traits to be a player, big doubts
Jack Martin 24yrs very talented player who has been disappointing last two seasons, exact type player we need
David Cuningham 22yrs injury riddled but enormous upside explosive player who will eventually go through midfield
Mathew Owies 22yrs improved throughout the season kicking a couple of bags of 5 looks an interesting prospect
Mathew Kennedy 22yrs injury has had an impact, if he can get his endurance up can play mid, a lot ahead of him
So draft night will see us complete the list with imo some obvious areas that need attention, without backing over what I've posted before on occasion the small and medium forwards are at the top of the list, players with speed and good skills are the other.
Betts is our only pure small forward Martin and Cuningham have the talent to play there as well as higher up the ground if needed but we are a couple of kids short that will add to the balance of our list that can develop and when ready or needed can be called upon to step in to fill that roll.
Our key forwards and defenders are looking in strong shape provided none of them have any (other) injury setbacks or long injury layoffs.
The midfield group looks to have great depth so even when the likes of Murph and Ed are retiring we have a great nucleus ready to take us forward, whether we grab a star through trade along the way or go through the draft.
Kruezer will have to be replaced list wise when his time is up hopefully if he can get another 2/3 years with a good run of injury that will have DeKoning at around 22/23yrs to take over.
We all see things a little differently and this is just an opinion on how i view our list atm...
Bizarre to think that Polson is older than our median midfielder age.
![C4[2]Yo`DooR](https://www.bigfootycontent.com/avatars/m/21/21849.jpg?1724656646){kind=avatar}
- Dec 18, 2005
- 17,753
- 28,101
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- GAVROI MOUNIA... GAMW TON PIRAEA
This thread suddenly got more entertaining.
I have explained it numerous times, including the last post why I believe our recruiting in the rookie drafts will get better. I know my post is long (aren't they always) but it's all there. So to simplify...
1. We have moved our focus away from talls and key mids (less likely to find in the back end of the draft) to small forwards, flankers and underdeveloped midfield types (more likely to find in the back end of the draft).
2. We have had a focus on building culture. Which rules out players who don't do well with the personality test and rules out possible negative influences. We have been selecting on personality first and talent second. Not just ruling out the possible negative but focusing more on ones who will bring a positive influence. This rules out most of the players with talent at the back end of the draft. I believe the culture is probably strong enough where we can take in those types now but only just.
3. Development. It's pointless bringing in players who lack professionalism, internal motivation and opportunities on the field if you can't provide that for them and push them. We should be able to feed our forward line and protect the backline. We should be able to bring in unprofessional, not self driven personalities and have them develop in the system we have now. We have been a list of kids and have only just brought Russell in. We have not been able to develop players very well and this is a must for the later drafted ones.
4. More selections and less salary dumps. No need to take short term list fillers. They were important when our list was developing but now we can afford to take in more talented kids and play the odds a bit more.
5. We're following a similar rebuild to a few other clubs who built long dynasties. We are most comparable to Richmond. Richmond didn't find anything late in the draft until their final two seasons of the rebuild. That's about where we are at. Richmond's reasons for this would be the same as ours. They didn't get good at recruiting, they already were, they just released the shackles, changed their direction and built a team and culture that was easier to play well in and developed players better. Same as we are doing.
6. I think it may have already started to happen. Gibbons has his limitations but can play. DeLuca can play and probably did the best out of the rest of them but may not stay which says more about our list than his quality. Owies and Cottrell look likely players. Goddard can play and is a great backup key defender.
Last edited:
Why are we playing Martin as a forward? Someone else posted that Teague or another coach mentioned this too. From everything else I've read and heard he's a wingman? Or high half forward delivering into the forward line.
It is a little, i guess he was only a speculative pick 69 from memory and probably a little lucky to be on the list.
I think the bonus about Martin is his good enough to play both at a high standard, possess all the traits to play forward and has the skill set and endurance to play on a wing, I'm splitting him between the two on a weekly basis and leaving him were his making the bigger impact...
JuddgementDay
Brownlow Medallist
I guess, we have more players who can play wing than small hff.
But, in the modern game, the players run everywhere anyway, so playing hff would see Martin roam between the two 50m arcs anyway.
Last edited:
- Status
