Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Sheephead]

It's time to trade but for the right players.

A gun 18yo small forward does plenty for us. Another skinny 18yo mid, pass.

Exactly. We don’t need to go the draft again. The kid already in the system I would chase really hard is Ian ‘Bobby’ Hill from GWS - before he explodes on the AFL stage.

Martin and Hill would seriously enhance our midfield and goal kicking stocks.

And FWIW - add M Crouch, a clearance gun, and we are set IMO.

 

[Faz 2000]

Exactly. We don’t need to go the draft again. The kid already in the system I would chase really hard is Ian ‘Bobby’ Hill from GWS - before he explodes on the AFL stage.

Yes! Really like this guy.

It annoys me that seemingly every other team in the league can find handy small forwards for modest draft picks except us, who decide we have to pony up first-rounders to buy one prepared by someone else.

Take yer pick of Gryan Miers, AMT, Liam Ryan, Bobby Hill, Papley, Breust, etc etc. It seemingly is just not a role we've respected or valued for too long. Even higher up the draft order, spending a good (but not TOP) pick on a Gresham or similar in retrospect might have been wise.

If we could find one, we could have our cake and eat it too, instead of spending top currency to buy something everyone else is getting for free.

 

[Omega Blue]

I've been using that terminology alot lately.
I rank midfielders by position rather than how good they are.
For example our #1 midfielder is Cripps as in he's our clearance guy, inside mid.
We don't have a #2 midfielder but the closest one would be Murphy, inside/outside well rounded mid, he's the guy who Cripps would dish the clearance off too. Coniglio would have been that guy.
The #3 midfielder is Walsh more outside than a #2 but still very well rounded.
#4 and #5 are your wingmen.

Basically we need to either internally find the #2 mid (Setterfield) or go out and buy one with 2019 and 2020 firsts on the table. My ideal would be Taranto but he'd be impossible to pry free.

 

[Omega Blue]

Yes! Really like this guy.

It annoys me that seemingly every other team in the league can find handy small forwards for modest draft picks except us, who decide we have to pony up first-rounders to buy one prepared by someone else.

Just remember it wasn't long ago where we had garlett and betts in the rookie and preseason draft, other clubs would look at our key position players and say how are Carlton so lucky that ALL of there kpp worked out from the 2015 draft

These things eb and flow

 

[Faz 2000]

Yep, it'd sure be great to pull an Eddie or Jeff out of our collective backsides next rookie draft.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Just remember it wasn't long ago where we had garlett and betts in the rookie and preseason draft, other clubs would look at our key position players and say how are Carlton so lucky that ALL of there kpp worked out from the 2015 draft

These things eb and flow

Exactly it only takes a McCartin type situation and we would possibly in a completely different situation. Also starting our rebuild in 2015 was the luckiest thing we ever done. It would be near impossible to build a spine like we did in any other draft.

 

[HARKER]

I've been using that terminology alot lately.
I rank midfielders by position rather than how good they are.
For example our #1 midfielder is Cripps as in he's our clearance guy, inside mid.
We don't have a #2 midfielder but the closest one would be Murphy, inside/outside well rounded mid, he's the guy who Cripps would dish the clearance off too. Coniglio would have been that guy.
The #3 midfielder is Walsh more outside than a #2 but still very well rounded.
#4 and #5 are your wingmen.

Basically we need to either internally find the #2 mid (Setterfield) or go out and buy one with 2019 and 2020 firsts on the table. My ideal would be Taranto but he'd be impossible to pry free.

I think that's a fair way to look at things.
You need a deep mix of mids, but the three starting mids are the ones that need to complement one another.

Coniglio would have been perfect for us, but not to be.
GWS won't let go of Taranto, but somehow no matter how much quality midfielders, they move on, they just keep adding more -

Coniglio, Kelly, Whitfield, Hopper, Taranto, Ward and then they have the developing group to add - Caldwell, Hately, Bonar etc etc.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yep, it'd sure be great to pull an Eddie or Jeff out of our collective backsides next rookie draft.

I'm not keen on gathering all of our backsides in the one place, somehow melding them together and pulling a human being out.

The positive is nobody will go near him on field.

 

[Omega Blue]

I'm not keen on gathering all of our backsides in the one place, somehow melding them together and pulling a human being out.

The positive is nobody will go near him on field.

Reminds me of an Ace Ventura scene

 

[Faz 2000]

(Note: I started writing this to organise my thoughts, and just kept going. Quite possibly has no real point, lots of factual errors and betrays my lack of understanding of what makes other teams good. But I'll share it anyway.)

tl:dr version = a solid 25yo midfielder, even if not a superstar, would be a great get for the Blues NOW, even if only to support the development of the youngsters.


If we have a look at the midfields of the better sides, I think it becomes clear why Crouch or Wines or someone of that ilk would be greatly beneficial to the Blues. These are just sort of my off-the-cuff rankings and analysis, so don't get too hung up on who is better than who... my key point is all these teams tend to have seriously good players as their 3rd, 4th best midfielders, and also some very strong outside complimentary players.


Brisbane - putting Neale (1) at the top of the tree has allowed everyone else to shine. Zorko (2) is a weapon and McLuggage (3) has arrived and Berry (4) much improved. Robinson (5), for all his flaws, is strong, competitive and a handy goal-kicker, whilst Lyons (6) is incredibly good in close. Good and prolific half backs also add to the effectiveness.

Collingwood - fully fit, it's an awesome line-up. Pendles (1), Treloar (2), Beams (3) are balanced players, Sidey (4) and Phillips (5) are excellent outside linkers and Adams (6) is more than competent as an inside mid. Not counting JDG who is a super-impactful cameo midfielder. On paper it's better than anyone could hope to assemble. Youngsters like Brown, Sier get the occasional look in. Compared to others I think the strength lies in how good Side and Phillips all over the ground and how JDG is not relied-upon, but can be used as a wildcard.

Geelong - top shelf stuff. Danger (1) is a megastar, Kelly (2) a jet, Selwood (3) a warrior and Duncan (4) as good an outside player as there is in the comp. The luxury of having GAJ and Dahlhaus on flanks supports the midfield, whilst the introduction of youngsters in more prominent roles (Parfitt, Narkle) gives the big stars a chop out. Arguably the depth drops away at the Cats after the stars, which is where they've been found out in previous finals compaigns. The first four, though, are superb.

Richmond - Dusty is an all-timer (1), and Cotchin (2) when fit is a brilliant 2-way midfielder and leader. Prestia (3) is more than capable of carrying the midfield for periods of games, Lambert (4) is an amazing runner and Edwards (5) just knows exactly when and how to impact games. Tough youngsters (Ross, Graham) do some grunt work and Caddy, Higgins, and others rotate through with impact.

West Coast - prime-movers are Shuey (1), Yeo (2), Sheed (4) with Gaff (3) on the outside, Redden (5) as an insider, and guest appearances by others, plus a glove-like tagger in Hutchings (6). Arguably the Eagles are the odd one out amongst the top sides, as their forward line is awesome, backline brilliant, and they play a kick-mark, control the ball full ground style less reliant on a dominant midfield. All those players are in peak age years, and Shuey, Yeo and Gaff all pretty elite at what they do. Strength is that it is not entirely reliant on any one player - and also that Shuey, Yeo and Sheed are better players than many give them credit for.

GWS - IF they were all actually available, the GWS midfield is rude. Kelly (1), Coniglio (3), Ward (4) are tough, skillful and injured. Taranto (5) is damn near everyone's favourite next superstar, and Hopper (6) is seriously good in close. A very good tagger (De Boer), promising youth (Hately, Caldwell) and oh, yeh... the best outside player in the league, Whitfield (2). That they've won games and competed WITHOUT Kelly, Coniglio and Ward this year is terrifying.

Bulldogs - Bont (1) is a genius, inside, outside, forward multi-role gun. Macrae (2) is also an all-court prolific ball-winner, and the arrival of Dunkley (3) as a brutal inside star has surged the Dogs upwards. The next tier is enviable, too, with Hunter (4) an outside link-up player, Libba (5) a tried-and-tested inside competitor and the youngsters (Smith, in particular, but also West, looking super promising). Obviously a very midfield-driven side, with a relatively weak crop of KPPs.

Meanwhile, at Princes Park...

Carlton - Cripps (1), the newly-minted league MVP, is as good an inside player as there is and has expanded his game with marking prowess, improved disposal and a taste for kicking goals. Murphy (2) has had a very good year, kicked some good goals, and plays both inside and outside roles. He is 32yo, under-sized and has some hard miles on the body so is not so suited to inside work as he could be, nor is his kicking as good as an elite pure outside player would have. He's still good, but looks fragile and close to the end compared to any other (2) on the list. Sam Walsh (3) is probably next best, which is extraordinary given his age. Looks like he can be a #2 "Robin" to Cripps' "Batman" for a long time. Probably projects to be in the Cotchin/Coniglio/Selwood inside/outside/leader mold, though doesn't YET have the body for the bash and crash. Ed Curnow (4) is a brilliant clubman and I love him. He's a defensive midfielder first, but has been called upon as a prime-mover this season because there's nobody else to do it.

Beyond that, it's really youngsters, many of whom have played multiple roles (with pretty mixed success). Setterfield, Fisher, SPS, Dow, LOB - we know this is where the step forward needs to come from. Dow will be an inside burst player, LOB definitely on the outside (if he makes it). SPS and Fisher were the ones we hoped would make great strides in 2019 and they did to some extent, but also stumbled. Both would seem to be able to play hybrid inside/outside roles and *can* have excellent disposal by foot; but too often do not.

Worth noting, too, that at all of Collingwood, Richmond and GWS seriously good players have missed a lot of football, yet those teams are still winning games. I honestly feel like any game the Blues win without Cripps right now is a miracle. Redundancy and resilience and options are what make the top teams consistently good. It's the "second shift" in the midfield that can often win the battle. Eg. Maybe Cripps/Murphy/Walsh break even with Pendles/Treloar/Sidebottom, but you feel that Adams/Phillips/Beams would make a mess of our next 3 guys - and we don't have a JDG to take a spin in there, either.

A 25yo player who can legitimately get it 25-40 times would make a huge difference to the mix in the Carlton midfield. Someone to take up the slack from Murphy as soon as he's done (or injured in a collision with a bigger player) and to continue in an important role going forward. Also someone to play the ball-winning role that Ed just shouldn't be. It could push Walsh out to a wing where he's probably better suited, and allow Dow to develop in the 2s or play cameos in the midfield. And buy time for Setterfield, Fisher and SPS to work out what they are and how to do it well.

 

[ferrisb]

(Note: I started writing this to organise my thoughts, and just kept going. Quite possibly has no real point, lots of factual errors and betrays my lack of understanding of what makes other teams good. But I'll share it anyway.)

tl:dr version = a solid 25yo midfielder, even if not a superstar, would be a great get for the Blues NOW, even if only to support the development of the youngsters.


If we have a look at the midfields of the better sides, I think it becomes clear why Crouch or Wines or someone of that ilk would be greatly beneficial to the Blues. These are just sort of my off-the-cuff rankings and analysis, so don't get too hung up on who is better than who... my key point is all these teams tend to have seriously good players as their 3rd, 4th best midfielders, and also some very strong outside complimentary players.


Brisbane - putting Neale (1) at the top of the tree has allowed everyone else to shine. Zorko (2) is a weapon and McLuggage (3) has arrived and Berry (4) much improved. Robinson (5), for all his flaws, is strong, competitive and a handy goal-kicker, whilst Lyons (6) is incredibly good in close. Good and prolific half backs also add to the effectiveness.

Collingwood - fully fit, it's an awesome line-up. Pendles (1), Treloar (2), Beams (3) are balanced players, Sidey (4) and Phillips (5) are excellent outside linkers and Adams (6) is more than competent as an inside mid. Not counting JDG who is a super-impactful cameo midfielder. On paper it's better than anyone could hope to assemble. Youngsters like Brown, Sier get the occasional look in. Compared to others I think the strength lies in how good Side and Phillips all over the ground and how JDG is not relied-upon, but can be used as a wildcard.

Geelong - top shelf stuff. Danger (1) is a megastar, Kelly (2) a jet, Selwood (3) a warrior and Duncan (4) as good an outside player as there is in the comp. The luxury of having GAJ and Dahlhaus on flanks supports the midfield, whilst the introduction of youngsters in more prominent roles (Parfitt, Narkle) gives the big stars a chop out. Arguably the depth drops away at the Cats after the stars, which is where they've been found out in previous finals compaigns. The first four, though, are superb.

Richmond - Dusty is an all-timer (1), and Cotchin (2) when fit is a brilliant 2-way midfielder and leader. Prestia (3) is more than capable of carrying the midfield for periods of games, Lambert (4) is an amazing runner and Edwards (5) just knows exactly when and how to impact games. Tough youngsters (Ross, Graham) do some grunt work and Caddy, Higgins, and others rotate through with impact.

West Coast - prime-movers are Shuey (1), Yeo (2), Sheed (4) with Gaff (3) on the outside, Redden (5) as an insider, and guest appearances by others, plus a glove-like tagger in Hutchings (6). Arguably the Eagles are the odd one out amongst the top sides, as their forward line is awesome, backline brilliant, and they play a kick-mark, control the ball full ground style less reliant on a dominant midfield. All those players are in peak age years, and Shuey, Yeo and Gaff all pretty elite at what they do. Strength is that it is not entirely reliant on any one player - and also that Shuey, Yeo and Sheed are better players than many give them credit for.

GWS - IF they were all actually available, the GWS midfield is rude. Kelly (1), Coniglio (3), Ward (4) are tough, skillful and injured. Taranto (5) is damn near everyone's favourite next superstar, and Hopper (6) is seriously good in close. A very good tagger (De Boer), promising youth (Hately, Caldwell) and oh, yeh... the best outside player in the league, Whitfield (2). That they've won games and competed WITHOUT Kelly, Coniglio and Ward this year is terrifying.

Bulldogs - Bont (1) is a genius, inside, outside, forward multi-role gun. Macrae (2) is also an all-court prolific ball-winner, and the arrival of Dunkley (3) as a brutal inside star has surged the Dogs upwards. The next tier is enviable, too, with Hunter (4) an outside link-up player, Libba (5) a tried-and-tested inside competitor and the youngsters (Smith, in particular, but also West, looking super promising). Obviously a very midfield-driven side, with a relatively weak crop of KPPs.

Meanwhile, at Princes Park...

Carlton - Cripps (1), the newly-minted league MVP, is as good an inside player as there is and has expanded his game with marking prowess, improved disposal and a taste for kicking goals. Murphy (2) has had a very good year, kicked some good goals, and plays both inside and outside roles. He is 32yo, under-sized and has some hard miles on the body so is not so suited to inside work as he could be, nor is his kicking as good as an elite pure outside player would have. He's still good, but looks fragile and close to the end compared to any other (2) on the list. Sam Walsh (3) is probably next best, which is extraordinary given his age. Looks like he can be a #2 "Robin" to Cripps' "Batman" for a long time. Probably projects to be in the Cotchin/Coniglio/Selwood inside/outside/leader mold, though doesn't YET have the body for the bash and crash. Ed Curnow (4) is a brilliant clubman and I love him. He's a defensive midfielder first, but has been called upon as a prime-mover this season because there's nobody else to do it.

Beyond that, it's really youngsters, many of whom have played multiple roles (with pretty mixed success). Setterfield, Fisher, SPS, Dow, LOB - we know this is where the step forward needs to come from. Dow will be an inside burst player, LOB definitely on the outside (if he makes it). SPS and Fisher were the ones we hoped would make great strides in 2019 and they did to some extent, but also stumbled. Both would seem to be able to play hybrid inside/outside roles and *can* have excellent disposal by foot; but too often do not.

Worth noting, too, that at all of Collingwood, Richmond and GWS seriously good players have missed a lot of football, yet those teams are still winning games. I honestly feel like any game the Blues win without Cripps right now is a miracle. Redundancy and resilience and options are what make the top teams consistently good. It's the "second shift" in the midfield that can often win the battle. Eg. Maybe Cripps/Murphy/Walsh break even with Pendles/Treloar/Sidebottom, but you feel that Adams/Phillips/Beams would make a mess of our next 3 guys - and we don't have a JDG to take a spin in there, either.

A 25yo player who can legitimately get it 25-40 times would make a huge difference to the mix in the Carlton midfield. Someone to take up the slack from Murphy as soon as he's done (or injured in a collision with a bigger player) and to continue in an important role going forward. Also someone to play the ball-winning role that Ed just shouldn't be. It could push Walsh out to a wing where he's probably better suited, and allow Dow to develop in the 2s or play cameos in the midfield. And buy time for Setterfield, Fisher and SPS to work out what they are and how to do it well.

Great stuff Faz.

Aside from Cripps, I think we lag the best teams in terms of 'mid rankings'

#1 Cripps - best of the lot, but other teams' #1s are also superstars - WIN
#2 Murph - still a v good player, but other teams' #2 are AA calibre - LOSE
#3 Walsh - already a very good player, not as good as other teams' #3s (YET!) - eg Gaff, Coniglio, McLuggage, Beams (if fit) - LOSE
#4 Ed - A step below Sheed, Ward, Duncan, Hunter - LOSE
#5+ - Fisher/Dow/LOB/Stterfield. On current output, our guys lag the top teams' 5th and 6th guys. - LOSE

Compared to the elite midfields, I think we lose most of the battles. Cripps' dominance probably covers up some of the damage. And then when you consider that Murph is on the way down and Ed is not getting any younger, it gets a bit ugly. Of course, Walsh could end up a #1 or the league's best #2. And guys like Setters/Dow etc have huge improvement in front of them.

But unless we add in a ready made player in the #2, #3, #4 slot or until we get 2-3 more seasons into our kids, we will likely continue to get get beaten by the top midfields.

 

[Blues_fest]

(Note: I started writing this to organise my thoughts, and just kept going. Quite possibly has no real point, lots of factual errors and betrays my lack of understanding of what makes other teams good. But I'll share it anyway.)

tl:dr version = a solid 25yo midfielder, even if not a superstar, would be a great get for the Blues NOW, even if only to support the development of the youngsters.


If we have a look at the midfields of the better sides, I think it becomes clear why Crouch or Wines or someone of that ilk would be greatly beneficial to the Blues. These are just sort of my off-the-cuff rankings and analysis, so don't get too hung up on who is better than who... my key point is all these teams tend to have seriously good players as their 3rd, 4th best midfielders, and also some very strong outside complimentary players.


Brisbane - putting Neale (1) at the top of the tree has allowed everyone else to shine. Zorko (2) is a weapon and McLuggage (3) has arrived and Berry (4) much improved. Robinson (5), for all his flaws, is strong, competitive and a handy goal-kicker, whilst Lyons (6) is incredibly good in close. Good and prolific half backs also add to the effectiveness.

Collingwood - fully fit, it's an awesome line-up. Pendles (1), Treloar (2), Beams (3) are balanced players, Sidey (4) and Phillips (5) are excellent outside linkers and Adams (6) is more than competent as an inside mid. Not counting JDG who is a super-impactful cameo midfielder. On paper it's better than anyone could hope to assemble. Youngsters like Brown, Sier get the occasional look in. Compared to others I think the strength lies in how good Side and Phillips all over the ground and how JDG is not relied-upon, but can be used as a wildcard.

Geelong - top shelf stuff. Danger (1) is a megastar, Kelly (2) a jet, Selwood (3) a warrior and Duncan (4) as good an outside player as there is in the comp. The luxury of having GAJ and Dahlhaus on flanks supports the midfield, whilst the introduction of youngsters in more prominent roles (Parfitt, Narkle) gives the big stars a chop out. Arguably the depth drops away at the Cats after the stars, which is where they've been found out in previous finals compaigns. The first four, though, are superb.

Richmond - Dusty is an all-timer (1), and Cotchin (2) when fit is a brilliant 2-way midfielder and leader. Prestia (3) is more than capable of carrying the midfield for periods of games, Lambert (4) is an amazing runner and Edwards (5) just knows exactly when and how to impact games. Tough youngsters (Ross, Graham) do some grunt work and Caddy, Higgins, and others rotate through with impact.

West Coast - prime-movers are Shuey (1), Yeo (2), Sheed (4) with Gaff (3) on the outside, Redden (5) as an insider, and guest appearances by others, plus a glove-like tagger in Hutchings (6). Arguably the Eagles are the odd one out amongst the top sides, as their forward line is awesome, backline brilliant, and they play a kick-mark, control the ball full ground style less reliant on a dominant midfield. All those players are in peak age years, and Shuey, Yeo and Gaff all pretty elite at what they do. Strength is that it is not entirely reliant on any one player - and also that Shuey, Yeo and Sheed are better players than many give them credit for.

GWS - IF they were all actually available, the GWS midfield is rude. Kelly (1), Coniglio (3), Ward (4) are tough, skillful and injured. Taranto (5) is damn near everyone's favourite next superstar, and Hopper (6) is seriously good in close. A very good tagger (De Boer), promising youth (Hately, Caldwell) and oh, yeh... the best outside player in the league, Whitfield (2). That they've won games and competed WITHOUT Kelly, Coniglio and Ward this year is terrifying.

Bulldogs - Bont (1) is a genius, inside, outside, forward multi-role gun. Macrae (2) is also an all-court prolific ball-winner, and the arrival of Dunkley (3) as a brutal inside star has surged the Dogs upwards. The next tier is enviable, too, with Hunter (4) an outside link-up player, Libba (5) a tried-and-tested inside competitor and the youngsters (Smith, in particular, but also West, looking super promising). Obviously a very midfield-driven side, with a relatively weak crop of KPPs.

Meanwhile, at Princes Park...

Carlton - Cripps (1), the newly-minted league MVP, is as good an inside player as there is and has expanded his game with marking prowess, improved disposal and a taste for kicking goals. Murphy (2) has had a very good year, kicked some good goals, and plays both inside and outside roles. He is 32yo, under-sized and has some hard miles on the body so is not so suited to inside work as he could be, nor is his kicking as good as an elite pure outside player would have. He's still good, but looks fragile and close to the end compared to any other (2) on the list. Sam Walsh (3) is probably next best, which is extraordinary given his age. Looks like he can be a #2 "Robin" to Cripps' "Batman" for a long time. Probably projects to be in the Cotchin/Coniglio/Selwood inside/outside/leader mold, though doesn't YET have the body for the bash and crash. Ed Curnow (4) is a brilliant clubman and I love him. He's a defensive midfielder first, but has been called upon as a prime-mover this season because there's nobody else to do it.

Beyond that, it's really youngsters, many of whom have played multiple roles (with pretty mixed success). Setterfield, Fisher, SPS, Dow, LOB - we know this is where the step forward needs to come from. Dow will be an inside burst player, LOB definitely on the outside (if he makes it). SPS and Fisher were the ones we hoped would make great strides in 2019 and they did to some extent, but also stumbled. Both would seem to be able to play hybrid inside/outside roles and *can* have excellent disposal by foot; but too often do not.

Worth noting, too, that at all of Collingwood, Richmond and GWS seriously good players have missed a lot of football, yet those teams are still winning games. I honestly feel like any game the Blues win without Cripps right now is a miracle. Redundancy and resilience and options are what make the top teams consistently good. It's the "second shift" in the midfield that can often win the battle. Eg. Maybe Cripps/Murphy/Walsh break even with Pendles/Treloar/Sidebottom, but you feel that Adams/Phillips/Beams would make a mess of our next 3 guys - and we don't have a JDG to take a spin in there, either.

A 25yo player who can legitimately get it 25-40 times would make a huge difference to the mix in the Carlton midfield. Someone to take up the slack from Murphy as soon as he's done (or injured in a collision with a bigger player) and to continue in an important role going forward. Also someone to play the ball-winning role that Ed just shouldn't be. It could push Walsh out to a wing where he's probably better suited, and allow Dow to develop in the 2s or play cameos in the midfield. And buy time for Setterfield, Fisher and SPS to work out what they are and how to do it well.

Impressive work. Was a great read and worth the effort. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Faz 2000]

#1 Cripps - best of the lot, but other teams' #1s are also superstars - WIN
#2 Murph - still a v good player, but other teams' #2 are AA calibre - LOSE
#3 Walsh - already a very good player, not as good as other teams' #3s (YET!) - eg Gaff, Coniglio, McLuggage, Beams (if fit) - LOSE
#4 Ed - A step below Sheed, Ward, Duncan, Hunter - LOSE

Yes - probably a way better way of articulating what I was going for. But also why it's not all dire. We don't need to find 4 good midfielders - we need to find probably 1 that pushes the others down the batting order and make that comparison far more favourable. The names mentioned - however unlikely they might be - in Wines and Crouch to me fit this perfectly. At 25yo, they'd slot straight in as our #2 right now. Both could be the top centre square player when Cripps is not there.

Fast forward 4 years, either of those guys are STILL in their prime output years (albeit tail-end) at 29-30yo, but in our midfield they'll be supporting a Brownlow medallist in Cripps, playing #5-6 midfield spot because Walsh, Setterfield and Dow have blown by them, as the Blues go for back-to-back flags.

 

[Omega Blue]

I'd have a crack at Scott Jones rather than Darcy Cameron.

 

[Arr0w]

Great stuff Faz.

Aside from Cripps, I think we lag the best teams in terms of 'mid rankings'

#1 Cripps - best of the lot, but other teams' #1s are also superstars - WIN
#2 Murph - still a v good player, but other teams' #2 are AA calibre - LOSE
#3 Walsh - already a very good player, not as good as other teams' #3s (YET!) - eg Gaff, Coniglio, McLuggage, Beams (if fit) - LOSE
#4 Ed - A step below Sheed, Ward, Duncan, Hunter - LOSE
#5+ - Fisher/Dow/LOB/Stterfield. On current output, our guys lag the top teams' 5th and 6th guys. - LOSE

Compared to the elite midfields, I think we lose most of the battles. Cripps' dominance probably covers up some of the damage. And then when you consider that Murph is on the way down and Ed is not getting any younger, it gets a bit ugly. Of course, Walsh could end up a #1 or the league's best #2. And guys like Setters/Dow etc have huge improvement in front of them.

But unless we add in a ready made player in the #2, #3, #4 slot or until we get 2-3 more seasons into our kids, we will likely continue to get get beaten by the top midfields.

Not so sure...

While Cripps does cover up the inefficiencies/underdeveloped players, our numbers around stoppages and clearances are solid. Of course another quality inside mid would immediately improve us, but I prefer to focus on more spread/outside run and better foot skills, than another prominently inside mid

Still believe our greatest improvement will come from within

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'd have a crack at Scott Jones rather than Darcy Cameron.

Yeah, interesting one. Looked good at times. Getting cut despite Sandilands retiring isn't a good look though.

 

[Jeremias]

Jones is massive but doesn't seem to use his size to advantage, nor is he mobile enough to have any impact around the ground.

I haven't been particularly impressed with what I've seen from him over the past few years.

From memory we were keen on him the year he was drafted by Fremantle, so we'd certainly be familiar with his work.

 

[TheKITC]

We cannot afford to give up 2 firsts for Paps

Pick 8 is fair value if not slight overs, contracted or not

I'm not completely over this thread, but anyone who is suggesting we part with 2 firsts for Tom Papley seriously needs their head read. That's selling the farm overs. 2 firsts get's you players like Adam Treloar, not Tom Papley.

Yes, I get that he is contracted and if anyone knows that you need to pay overs for extracting contracted players, it is us Carlton supporters. 2 firsts that included 8 would be stupidity. A contracted Charlie Cameron was traded for pick 12 and he has just got his AA jacket. Papley isn't at his level.

8 would be big overs as it is for mine and would want something coming back the other way; problem being is that they only have St. Kilda's pick 23 atm (prob too high) or their own pick 40 (prob too low). Obviously a lot can play out with picks, especially considering Sydney's craftiness with academy wiggling and such as well as SOS's own adeptness at manipulating things....

 

[JustaBattler]

Not so sure...

1.While Cripps does cover up the inefficiencies/underdeveloped players,
2.our numbers around stoppages and clearances are solid.
3.Of course another quality inside mid would immediately improve us,
4.but I prefer to focus on more spread/outside run and better foot skills, than another prominently inside mid

5. Still believe our greatest improvement will come from within

1. Understatement - none of the kids on exposed form and they've had plenty of exposed form can handle 4 quarter AFL standard on ball duties - none.
2. No they aren't finals quality - especially when Cripps is off the park - which has seen on many occasions massive momentum changes and multiple goals scored
3. Absolutely a massive priority in my books - until /unless 1-2 of Dow/Stocker/SPS/Fisher/Setterfield/Kennedy can step up - 1-2 yrs away from that
4. Why are these mutually exclusive? why are LoB/Fisher/Walsh/Murphy going to get a leave pass?
5. Agreed - but that has to be the case given list demographics anyway.

 

[Pablito]

Papley for 8 is already slight overs. To pay anymore than that would be ludicrous.
If they want a second first round draft pick for him we'll also take Zak Jones and Darcy Cameron then.

 

[DangerousD]

I know Max Lynch tore us a new one in one game, but how did he go the rest of the year? Did anyone who watches enough VFL know if his game can take the step to AFL and know if he has re-signed?

We need to refresh our ruck stocks, fast

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Papley for 8 is already slight overs. To pay anymore than that would be ludicrous.
If they want a second first round draft pick for him we'll also take Zak Jones and Darcy Cameron then.

Yep Sos will play hard ball now as he knows anything he does with Papley & pick 8 will also help * out in the long run.

 

[bigm386]

As much as I want to bolster our list, I am really not fussed if we don't land any players this trade period.

Thinking about the end of the season, we had some players that should/would be in our best 15 if not best 10 most weeks. We actually had a very average injury run especially towards the end of the season.

If we can get Doc even at say 80% of the player he was, that would be a huge upgrade. If Williamson can get fit and continue on his early promise he will also be a lock off half back.

We get players back like Jones, Marchbank and Charlie Curnow. Hopefully Cunners gets his body right and a good run at it. Another preseason into players like Stocker, Dow, Fisher, SPS, Polson (yes haven't given up on him) and the like our midfield starts to look much deeper.

We are a very very different side and much improved. Could even argue the likes of Jack Martin would struggle to make the 22.

Yes we 100% lack small forwards, but we can target them in the draft. To me our biggest need outside of a small forward is a 24-26 year old ruckman, with TDK coming through we are still light on for Ruck stocks. Phillips has not taken his opportunities and Kruzer is really at the tail end.

I wouldn't go losing my head if we don't land a big fish put it that way.

 

[HARKER]

I know Max Lynch tore us a new one in one game, but how did he go the rest of the year? Did anyone who watches enough VFL know if his game can take the step to AFL and know if he has re-signed?

We need to refresh our ruck stocks, fast

I talked him up quite a bit against the one showing because he simply showed up lots of AFL quality traits.
He beat our rucks but it was his ability and manoeuvrability around the ground that impressed me most. May have been a one-off, for all I know.


Should Papley and Martin come about this trade period we would have done very well, even for missing on Coniglio as they represent two areas where we need bolstering desperately. They may not be the best of the best but they don't have to be, as they're simply better than for anything we have in the smaller forward side of things.

We'd also likely then retain our 2020 first. This should be earmarked for one of the final pieces of the puzzle next year.

 

[Omega Blue]

The one thing I'd say about Jones is at 115kgs he needs to strip 10kgs off the frame, I have no doubt that his agility and endurance would increase of he did that. There's something to work with