Training 2020 Pre Season Training

[skam85]

One took them to a Grand Final, and 2 more took them to a Preliminary Final. That's more than enough to suggest that they knew what they were doing, and are not the incompetents that you and Scorpus would portray them as being.

** Sadly, we'll never know what Walsh could have done with the team.

So zero flags then

 

[Vader]

So zero flags then

Your question has zero relevancy as to their competence as coaches.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Atkins whilst he can frustrate us massively at times he is actually one of the most talented players on our list.....anyone that says he's a total fu**in spud of epic proportions clearly has no fu**in idea to use their words..

Meh... ok, maybe i was being a little harsh to the rat..

he may be massively talented but he’s also massively inconsistent and often very slow in his decision making which sees him get caught with the ball a hell of a lot or end up bringing so much pressure upon himself that he makes bad mistakes.

He doesnt apply enough pressure to his opponent and often can be seen lazily jogging after the bloke hes meant to be manning up on when he loses the contest.. i recall seeing this on many occassions particularly last season.

These are the reasons i referred to him as a ****in spud... it has nothing to do with his talent... more his attitude and effort..

You are possibly more diplomatic and reserved than i am and would rather refer to it as “massively frustrating”..

 

[Scorpus]

Looks like the number of coaches to make a prelim final in their career is quite high. Around 55-60% of non-caretaker coaches in the 2000s have achieved that feat.

So I don't think anyone should be using that as a measure of success.

 

[Elite Crow]

This is such a dumb, bad faith argument, and I'll call you out for it every time you make it.

No one has ever said they know more than the coaches. It's literally not a point anyone has made. I don't think I know more than the coaches.

It's possible to criticize someone's decision making based on the outcome without knowing the 'inner circle' facts that went into making the decision

As Vader has me on ignore, you might want to point out to Lord that all bar one of those coaches has been sacked.

Secondly, that sometimes clubs make poor decisions, such as appointing Burton, going on looney camps.....

 

[cleanhands]

Meh... ok, maybe i was being a little harsh to the rat..

he may be massively talented but he’s also massively inconsistent and often very slow in his decision making which sees him get caught with the ball a hell of a lot or end up bringing so much pressure upon himself that he makes bad mistakes.

He doesnt apply enough pressure to his opponent and often can be seen lazily jogging after the bloke hes meant to be manning up on when he loses the contest.. i recall seeing this on many occassions particularly last season.

These are the reasons i referred to him as a fu**in spud... it has nothing to do with his talent... more his attitude and effort..

You are possibly more diplomatic and reserved than i am and would rather refer to it as “massively frustrating”..

Have seen enough of Atkins,one sided, burns to many of his teammates Doesn’t give off reflex handballs, and freezes when gets tackled,and dyes his hair enough said

 

[cleanhands]

Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that the club doesn't regard these players as "spuds"? If, as expected, Mackay is named to play in R1, then Nicks will be the 6th consecutive senior coach to have selected him in his best 22.

It is abundantly clear that, while loathed on BF, Mackay is clearly not held in the same low regard by the coaching staff. It is also clear that the BF rumour that Mackay's selection was owed solely to Campo's favouritism is/was also without basis.

Don’t have a problem with this in the past, and agree, but now the time has actually come where he should not be picked ahead of our youth

 

[Mr_Moogle]

you're naive if you think anyone at the club didn't act in the same way.

It's logical given that coaches have KPIs they need to meet. My argument is that there has to be somebody to guide the club to a long term goal, not just people trying to scrape enough wins to make it to next year. What happens if the club's long term best interest is at odds with a senior coaches short term, career related goals? Shouldn't we have a mechanism in place to stop coaches doing what Pyke did 2019?

 

[Tex200]

It's exactly the argument you're making. You disagree with the decision, so the decision must be wrong. 6 consecutive coaches have made the decision, so you really are saying that you know better than them. There is no other way of interpreting your posting on this subject.

And aside from PW all of those coaches have been sacked, or not reappointed, so you’ll understand if I don’t have much respect for their decision making.

 

[FAITH]

It's logical given that coaches have KPIs they need to meet. My argument is that there has to be somebody to guide the club to a long term goal, not just people trying to scrape enough wins to make it to next year. What happens if the club's long term best interest is at odds with a senior coaches short term, career related goals? Shouldn't we have a mechanism in place to stop coaches doing what Pyke did 2019?

I'm with you but it really is fairy land stuff to think anyone at the club gives a toss about its future or its supporters.
Look at how much Chappy has stuffed up over the years, deep down he probably even knows he should move on but his ego won't allow it.

 

[Jack is Back]

And aside from PW all of those coaches have been sacked, or not reappointed, so you’ll understand if I don’t have much respect for their decision making.

What percentage of all AFL coaches are sacked or not reappointed?

Sheedy won four flags but was eventually sacked. Malthouse was not reappointed by Collingwood after making the Grand Final and subsequently sacked by Carlton. Neil Kerley coached West Adelaide for two years, made two grand finals and won one premiership.........and was immediately sacked.

 

[Vader]

And aside from PW all of those coaches have been sacked, or not reappointed, so you’ll understand if I don’t have much respect for their decision making.

Happens to pretty much every coach eventually, so no I don't respect you for making such a dumb decision.

 

[Vader]

What percentage of all AFL coaches are sacked or not reappointed?

Sheedy won four flags but was eventually sacked. Malthouse was not reappointed by Collingwood after making the Grand Final and subsequently sacked by Carlton. Neil Kerley coached West Adelaide for two years, made two grand finals and won one premiership.........and was immediately sacked.

I'm struggling to think of a single coach, in AFL history, who has gone out on his own terms.

Sheedy's departure from GWS? Maybe?
Roos, departing from Sydney in favour of Longmire?

Any way you care to look at it, coaches who aren't sacked or not-reappointed are few and far between.

 

[Jack is Back]

I'm struggling to think of a single coach, in AFL history, who has gone out on his own terms.

Sheedy's departure from GWS? Maybe?

It’s not easy to walk away from an $800k+ job and all successful coaches believe they can go on forever. Unsuccessful coaches are sacked. I guess you could argue that Blighty walked away from the Adelaide job but hardly a graceful retirement.
Cornes - Sacked
Shaw - Sacked
Blight - Resigned mid season
Ayres - Sacked
Sanderson - Sacked
Walsh - Passed away
Pyke - Sacked

Cahill - Sacked
Williams - Sacked
Primus - Sacked
Hinckley - Coach for Life (hopefully )

 

[Vader]

It’s not easy to walk away from an $800k+ job and all successful coaches believe they can go on forever. Unsuccessful coaches are sacked. I guess you could argue that Blighty walked away from the Adelaide job but hardly a graceful retirement.
Cornes - Sacked
Shaw - Sacked
Blight - Resigned mid season
Ayres - Sacked
Sanderson - Sacked
Walsh - Passed away
Pyke - Sacked

Cahill - Sacked
Williams - Sacked
Primus - Sacked
Hinckley - Coach for Life (hopefully )

Technically Ayres resigned mid-season, after being told that his contract wasn't going to be renewed.

** I don't see any difference, but PeterJ seemed to in his previous post.

 

[Elite Crow]

What percentage of all AFL coaches are sacked or not reappointed?

Sheedy won four flags but was eventually sacked. Malthouse was not reappointed by Collingwood after making the Grand Final and subsequently sacked by Carlton. Neil Kerley coached West Adelaide for two years, made two grand finals and won one premiership.........and was immediately sacked.

Really you are bringing up successful coaches who time eventually passes by?

Ok, the clowns who preferred ageing players made quality list decisions like.....Malcolm Blight

 

[GreyCrow]

It's logical given that coaches have KPIs they need to meet. My argument is that there has to be somebody to guide the club to a long term goal, not just people trying to scrape enough wins to make it to next year. What happens if the club's long term best interest is at odds with a senior coaches short term, career related goals? Shouldn't we have a mechanism in place to stop coaches doing what Pyke did 2019?

Hopefully Kelly is able to see when/if this happens and he and Nicks have enough of a relationship that he can mention it

It should also be driven by the Board and ..oh my god were ****ed

 

[Scorpus]

Really you are bringing up successful coaches who time eventually passes by?

Ok, the clowns who preferred ageing players made quality list decisions like.....Malcolm Blight

Yeah, not sure why people have latched onto the sacking aspect. The key point is they were sacked and also not premiership coaches. Big difference between sacking Brenton Sanderson and Kevin Sheedy.

It's hard to place a lot of faith in the decision making of a sacked, unsuccessful coach. Much easier to respect the decisions of a premiership winning coach who eventually falls away from their peak.

 

[Elite Crow]

Yeah, not sure why people have latched onto the sacking aspect. The key point is they were sacked and also not premiership coaches. Big difference between sacking Brenton Sanderson and Kevin Sheedy.

It's hard to place a lot of faith in the decision making of a sacked, unsuccessful coach. Much easier to respect the decisions of a premiership winning coach who eventually falls away from their peak.

It’s an unbelievably dumb argument.

It’s like when Hart is eventually sacked, he’s up there with the best assistants, because they were also eventually moved on

 

[Jack is Back]

Really you are bringing up successful coaches who time eventually passes by?

Ok, the clowns who preferred ageing players made quality list decisions like.....Malcolm Blight

Please provide the list of coaches who were at the top of their game and said, I think I have had enough. Arguably Leigh Matthews but he had a choice of continuing to coach or taking up a very lucrative, low stress job in the media.

If we are going to dismiss the views of coaches who have been sacked/not reappointed then we are going to be able to hold the press conference in a phone box.

 

[Scorpus]

It’s an unbelievably dumb argument.

It’s like when Hart is eventually sacked, he’s up there with the best assistants, because they were also eventually moved on

Yeah it's a very shallow analysis

 

[Elite Crow]

Please provide the list of coaches who were at the top of their game and said, I think I have had enough. Arguably Leigh Matthews but he had a choice of continuing to coach or taking up a very lucrative, low stress job in the media.

If we are going to dismiss the views of coaches who have been sacked/not reappointed then we are going to be able to hold the press conference in a phone box.

I don’t need to because your point is stupid. They were all successful coaches, so if they were eventually sacked they still showed they were capable of building a premiership team.

Our coaches don’t have that success to claim they knew what they were doing and if anything, our last one has left us with a huge hole in our list development, one youre wanting to see continued by picking one of the worst 200 game players in AFL history.

 

[ShadeyP]

Meh... ok, maybe i was being a little harsh to the rat..

he may be massively talented but he’s also massively inconsistent and often very slow in his decision making which sees him get caught with the ball a hell of a lot or end up bringing so much pressure upon himself that he makes bad mistakes.

He doesnt apply enough pressure to his opponent and often can be seen lazily jogging after the bloke hes meant to be manning up on when he loses the contest.. i recall seeing this on many occassions particularly last season.

These are the reasons i referred to him as a fu**in spud... it has nothing to do with his talent... more his attitude and effort..

You are possibly more diplomatic and reserved than i am and would rather refer to it as “massively frustrating”..

That is the most frustrating thing with the Rat ... his flaws which you perfectly highlighted above are exposed multiple times per game and that has been the case for his whole career . They are also things that should be able to be fixed so easily by such a talented player but they have not .

The way he just gives up cold when a tackle is coming is unlike any other player in the league , he doesn't even remotely try to fight through it .

If he could cut out the brain fades and find consistency in application throughout games and season he would be one of the better players in the AFL .

 

[dylan123]

Just flicked through the last 60 pages to catch up... I wish we had a separate no discussion thread, would have been great to read the 5-10 relevant posts

Has Fog been injured much this pre season? Reason I ask is he didn't play in a practice game that someone reported going to on this thread and then he also missed the first pre season game. Might have just been a minor one as there was probably only a couple of weeks between the two games, hopefully he's firing though.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Just flicked through the last 60 pages to catch up... I wish we had a separate no discussion thread, would have been great to read the 5-10 relevant posts

Has Fog been injured much this pre season? Reason I ask is he didn't play in a practice game that someone reported going to on this thread and then he also missed the first pre season game. Might have just been a minor one as there was probably only a couple of weeks between the two games, hopefully he's firing though.

Missed the bushfire cricket game with a hamstring

Otherwise going well