Training 2020 Pre Season Training

[Tex200]

Still an outside midfield position.

Wow - you’re really outdoing yourself lately.

 

[Vader]

So Jake Kelly is an outside mid then?

Someone better let him know

Depends on how they play it. Smith plays it as an outside midfielder, Kelly more of a negating defender who stifles all forward ball movement (theirs and ours).

Smith earned the nomination because of the run & carry he provided, and his long kicking. These are traits of an outside midfielder. He didn't play as a negating defender (e.g. Kelly).

 

[Betts are off]

Still an outside midfield position.

The last Adelaide AA wingman I can think of is Anderson, in the early 1990s. However, he was developed by Essendon and only returned to Adelaide in the twilight of his career. Even our premiership wingmen weren't anything to write home about - Vardy was the best of them and he was nowhere near AA standard (Koster, Connell & Thiessen were the others).

Any way you care to look at it, our shortage of AA wingmen goes back a long way prior to Campo's influence.

To respond to the edit addition, That may be so, but regardless of what came before him, if you were the midfield coach, and you had 10 years with that position group. Would it be within reason to expect you to have developed 1 outside player in your tenure?

 

[Betts are off]

Depends on how they play it. Smith plays it as an outside midfielder, Kelly more of a negating defender who stifles all forward ball movement (theirs and ours).

Stop being deliberately argumentative man. That's utter hogwash and you know it!

If a player is primarily responsible for stopping the opposition forward then they are not a midfielder! Thats as old as the game itself

 

[Squiba]

Still an outside midfield position.

Jesus Christ, it's like an old, grammatically correct Marty.

You can be wrong Vader, it's ok, it doesn't make you any less.

 

[Vader]

To respond to the edit addition, That may be so, but regardless of what came before him, if you were the midfield coach, and you had 10 years with that position group. Would it be within reason to expect you to have developed 1 outside player in your tenure?

It would also help if we drafted some... It's not easy to develop elite outside mids when the recruiters keep drafting tall defenders & inside mids with all of our top picks. Jones, Smith & Milera are pretty much the only outside mids we've drafted at the top of the order in the last decade. Smith has won an AA playing an outside mid role on the HBF, and Jones has only been on the list for 1 season.

 

[Betts are off]

It would also help if we drafted some... It's not easy to develop elite outside mids when the recruiters keep drafting tall defenders & inside mids with all of our top picks. Jones, Smith & Milera are pretty much the only outside mids we've drafted at the top of the order in the last decade. Smith has won an AA playing an outside mid role on the HBF, and Jones has only been on the list for 1 season.

You're not fooling anyone by doubling down on the HBF being a midfield role man!

 

[Vader]

If a player is primarily responsible for stopping the opposition forward then they are not a midfielder! Thats as old as the game itself

Yep... and that was never Smith's role. To be blunt, he absolutely sucked whenever he was forced to play a negating role.

He's a superstar when he's providing rebound from defence (running off his opponent and hurting them the other way), which is how he won his AA selection.

 

[Vader]

You're not fooling anyone by doubling down on the HBF being a midfield role man!

And you're not fooling anyone by trying to pretend that Smith's HBF role was about shutting down his opponent! That's not the way he plays the game. He sucks dogs balls when he is forced to play accountable football, actually defending an opponent. He's terrible at it.

 

[Betts are off]

Yep... and that was never Smith's role. To be blunt, he absolutely sucked whenever he was forced to play a negating role.

He's a superstar when he's providing rebound from defence (running off his opponent and hurting them the other way), which is how he won his AA selection.

A part of the HBF position is to rebound from defense. Its doesn't make you a Midfielder.

Just because a player is better at one part of his position then another doesn't mean he changes positions!

 

[Betts are off]

And you're not fooling anyone by trying to pretend that Smith's HBF role was about shutting down his opponent! That's not the way he plays the game. He sucks dogs balls when he is forced to play accountable football, actually defending an opponent. He's terrible at it.

Just like you're terrible at trying to convince people that defenders are actually midfielders in disguise!

Defenders are defenders! Some play defensively, some play attackingly. This is day 1 stuff

 

[Vader]

A part of the HBF position is to rebound from defense. Its doesn't make you a Midfielder.

Finally we're starting to get somewhere...

Different players play the roles differently. With Smith, it's 98% about the rebound and 2% rebound. With Kelly it's 100% defence and -40% rebound.

Rebounding defenders are, to all intents and purposes, playing midfield roles - roving far up the wings as they pump the ball into our F50.

Just because a player is better at one part of his position then another doesn't mean he changes positions!

This isn't the 1960s, where players were largely static, and defenders rarely ventured past the back of the square (putting aside the fact that it didn't exist until 1973). This is the 2000s, where rebounding HBF players spend as much time on the wing as often as they are inside the D50.

To all intents and purposes, running HBFers (like Smith) are playing as outside midfielders.

 

[Vader]

Just like you're terrible at trying to convince people that defenders are actually midfielders in disguise!

Defenders are defenders! Some play defensively, some play attackingly. This is day 1 stuff

Meanwhile, in the 2010s...

But by all means, keep arguing as if the game hadn't evolved since 1960.

 

[Betts are off]

Finally we're starting to get somewhere...

Different players play the roles differently. With Smith, it's 98% about the rebound and 2% rebound. With Kelly it's 100% defence and -40% rebound.

Rebounding defenders are, to all intents and purposes, playing midfield roles - roving far up the wings as they pump the ball into our F50.

This isn't the 1960s, where players were largely static, and defenders rarely ventured past the back of the square (putting aside the fact that it didn't exist until 1973). This is the 2000s, where rebounding HBF players spend as much time on the wing as often as they are inside the D50.

To all intents and purposes, running HBFers (like Smith) are playing as outside midfielders.

You've officially crossed back into crazy town Vadar. Made up stats and everything!

 

[Vader]

You've officially crossed back into crazy town Vadar. Made up stats and everything!

That's alright. You can go back to watching your 1960 VFL games on your Betamax VCR, and pretend that the game hasn't evolved.

 

[Betts are off]

Meanwhile, in the 2010s...

But by all means, keep arguing as if the game hadn't evolved since 1960.

That's alright. You can go back to watching your 1960 VFL games on your Betamax VCR, and pretend that the game hasn't evolved.

Hahahaha, this is what you've come to in your argument man. A downward spiral of baseless and asinine retorts that don't address anything but your own ability to try and believe an obvious mistake that you refuse to back down from.

A better answer would have been to say around 10 posts ago. "Oh yep, you're right, he was quite obviously a HBF in 2014, my mistake"

 

[deeztreez]

I'm looking forward to seeing just how far FOG can kick this season. We've seen him bang 50m+ goals through post high a few times. I think he could realistically slot it from 65 on the run. Maybe 60 with a set shot!

You mean like this 1? One of my favourite moments from last year

 

[Betts are off]

You mean like this 1? One of my favourite moments from last year

View attachment 833981

I'd go as far as to say that was my #1 fav moment of last year! Such an F-U moment to the selectors

 

[Mego Red]

People - Smith clearly was playing an outside mid role. HBF's are often provising run and carry from behind the ball.

No outside mid is right on top of the contest, and Smith was often fed the ball by an inside mid.

 

[Vader]

Hahahaha, this is what you've come to in your argument man. A downward spiral of baseless and asinine retorts that don't address anything but your own ability to try and believe an obvious mistake that you refuse to back down from.

Can you blame me, given that your only argument is that "HBF is not an outside midfielder" - which is an argument better suited to the distant past than the 2020s?

A better answer would have been to say around 10 posts ago. "Oh yep, you're right, he was quite obviously a HBF, my mistake"

I'm quite happy to admit that he won his AA playing on the HBF. That's the position where he was named in the AA team.

Your problem is a refusal to realise that football has evolved since the 1960s, and that for many players the HBF is now a defacto outside midfield position. You just need to admit that you're wrong, that the game has evolved, and players are no longer static like they were in the "good old days".

 

[Betts are off]

Can you blame me, given that your only argument is that "HBF is not an outside midfielder" - which is an argument better suited to the distant past than the 2020s?

I'm quite happy to admit that he won his AA playing on the HBF. That's the position where he was named in the AA team.

Your problem is a refusal to realise that football has evolved since the 1960s, and that for many players the HBF is now a defacto outside midfield position. You just need to admit that you're wrong, that the game has evolved, and players are no longer static like they were in the "good old days".

Say the thing about the 2020's and the 1960's again. Its clearly making you feel better about how crazy wrong you are!

 

[Betts are off]

People - Smith clearly was playing an outside mid role. HBF's are often provising run and carry from behind the ball.

No outside mid is right on top of the contest, and Smith was often fed the ball by an inside mid.

Rubbish! Every player can run off the opponent. Doesn't make them an outside mid!

 

[Tex200]

Say the thing about the 2020's and the 1960's again. Its clearly making you feel better about how crazy wrong you are!

Vader is becoming quite the senile and grumpy old man in his dotage.

 

[1970crow]

Yep, Scorpus knows better than 6x AFL coaches.

Don't bother replying. We've had this argument before.

2 interims and 4 ex-coaches who will never get another senior gig. 1 through no fault of their own.

 

[Vader]

Say the thing about the 2020's and the 1960's again. Its clearly making you feel better about how crazy wrong you are!

Well, if you're going to make arguments that are 50 years out of date.

Tell me again, how is a rebounding HBF not a defacto outside midfielder?