List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

[Joao]

Best case is we rebuild the rebuild.

Worst case is we believe we can chase a top 4 spot, top up and finish finals e.g. St Kilda and then all our players get old and we have not young players to replace them.

I really don't think it's that dire, we just have to replace 3 players from our spine. Sounds terrible but defenders you can get from later picks. As long as we invest in key forwards we'll come good middle of the decade sometime (2023-2026).

Saints have Marshall, Steele and King as elite talents and King obviously isn't there yet. They might come good if a couple more emerge.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I really don't think it's that dire, we just have to replace 3 players from our spine. Sounds terrible but defenders you can get from later picks. As long as we invest in key forwards we'll come good middle of the decade sometime (2023-2026).

I think Mundy finishing this year will hurt us more than most people expect, plus Fyfe and him have been carrying us in several games, and Fyfe will be 32 in 2023 and his influence will be dropped. I am not sure our midfield will be good enough.

Ryan <Replace>Logue
Chapman Cox Young
Henry Brayshaw Frederick
<Replace> <Replace> Schultz??
Sturt?/ Treacy?? Switta??

Darcy Cerra <Replace>

Serong <Replace> Hughes <Replace>


If you look at our team that is 26 and under our backlines and midfield look ok.

I am not sure we have anyone capable of being any more than a B Grader in our front 6, or they have serious question marks.

Sturt - can he stay fit.
Treacy - can he step up to the next level.
Schultz, Switta - are they more than a B grader.

I think we need two good KPF's, two forward pockets at lest.

 

[Docker82]

I think Mundy finishing this year will hurt us more than most people expect, plus Fyfe and him have been carrying us in several games, and Fyfe will be 32 in 2023 and his influence will be dropped. I am not sure our midfield will be good enough.

Ryan <Replace>Logue
Chapman Cox Young
Henry Brayshaw Frederick
<Replace> <Replace> Schultz??
Sturt?/ Treacy?? Switta??

Darcy Cerra <Replace>

Serong <Replace> Hughes <Replace>


If you look at our team that is 26 and under our backlines and midfield look ok.

I am not sure we have anyone capable of being any more than a B Grader in our front 6, or they have serious question marks.

Sturt - can he stay fit.
Treacy - can he step up to the next level.
Schultz, Switta - are they more than a B grader.

I think we need two good KPF's, two forward pockets at lest.

What's the cut off for this team? Just that Hughes is older than Pearce.

Pearce will have at least another two years of not playing until we cut our losses imo. Whilst the long term list strategy should involve drafting another key defender, Pearce would still be best 22 until he's no longer on the list.

Acres and Aish (same age as Pearce) are also young enough. I reckon one at least will still be in the side. Push Henry to the HFF.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I know your pain. Five-six years ago we publicly announced a restump and rewire....self preservation meant we didn't fully commit and instead have stalled. I think we still need to commit - it's just that we are only halfway in terms of rebuilding.

I disagree with this notion we didn't fully commit.

Not sure what more people want. We dumped players who were still quite serviceable AFL players or even good ones like DeBoer and Barlow.

Unless it's the singular example of the Hogan trade people want to use but tbh I think that's way too pedantic a definition and basically no rebuilding team has ever not traded in players - especially young ones in a position of need.

I also don't see this rebuilding the rebuild crap being necessary. It progresses with ups and downs. There's still a couple of list holes like you might expect.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

Interesting to see where we are at about Round 15 / 16.
If we are in contention for the 8 or if we have fallen off a cliff?
The recent injuries are going to have a big impact over the next 4-5 games - where will we be at that stage?
When Young gets fit again - match fit he comes in and regardless of injury needs to replace Conca or Hughes, we can’t have both of them in the same team, my preference is for neither after this year.
The discussion has been about our oversupply of tall backs, no crystal ball - but can we get either Hamling or Pearce back to play consistently- looks less likely than probable.
Allir Allir in hindsight would have been a great pick up for us - now knowing the continuity of issues with Hamling and Pearce. Like others have said, these types can be found later on in the draft, earlier on Bazzo looks like a player you would consider both forward and back and let his development decide his position- similar to Naughton.
Midfield for me is the biggest concern, we need a potential A grader to get the ball from the clearances forward, Fyfe getting older and Mundy will leave a massive hole on current performances this year.
Also really need that top tier forward , not a Schache bust but a natural forward - hopefully Williams or van Rooyen, really would like to see them play well at WAFL level or dominate Colts.
We don’t have the picks to get all of these parts, so I’m afraid we may need to trade an established player to strengthen our draft hand.
This years draft is the biggest one for our club in the past 11 years, if we don’t get our pieces right we will be consigned to the 6 - 12 range for quite some time.

 

[nurries]

Depending where we finish and who if anyone leaves, i would like us to go a big mid like Matt Johnson and Rhett Bazzo or JVR type

 

[sumavich]

We ain’t playing finals, so get that out of your head. Need some steel in admin, blokes you are scared of.
We have nice people, they get you nowhere in AFL

 

[Joao]

I think Mundy finishing this year will hurt us more than most people expect, plus Fyfe and him have been carrying us in several games, and Fyfe will be 32 in 2023 and his influence will be dropped. I am not sure our midfield will be good enough.

Ryan <Replace>Logue
Chapman Cox Young
Henry Brayshaw Frederick
<Replace> <Replace> Schultz??
Sturt?/ Treacy?? Switta??

Darcy Cerra <Replace>

Serong <Replace> Hughes <Replace>


If you look at our team that is 26 and under our backlines and midfield look ok.

I am not sure we have anyone capable of being any more than a B Grader in our front 6, or they have serious question marks.

Sturt - can he stay fit.
Treacy - can he step up to the next level.
Schultz, Switta - are they more than a B grader.

I think we need two good KPF's, two forward pockets at lest.

I started the Mundy thread, I agree we get worse but you can find midfielders and eventually we will cover the loss even though the replacements will be different types of players. We have the midfield core of Darcy, Andy, Cez and Serong (assuming Cerra stays) and can build around that. They could easily become the best centre square combination in the league in time.

Agree that the defence is fine (when not injured) but we need to draft a KPD at some point in the next few years.

Sturt, Henry, Western all have sufficient class to be damaging forward of centre. See my frustration in the injury thread about Sturt. 3 unrelated contact injuries isn't injury proneness, its bad (aka Freo grade) luck. Mora was injury prone. Harley was injury prone. Sturt just needs to stop letting 90kg blokes stand or fall on him. Motlop allegedly has some class too but seems to be coming from a long way back in the draft this year. That said, I am all for drafting actual quality forwards so would be happy with another medium or small forward with class.

Mitch, Schultz and Switta are fine as pressure players.

Treacy becoming B grade (40+ goals) or better would be amazing but I am assuming he doesn't. It's why at this stage I think we drop at least 2 first rounders on KPFs and maybe another later pick in the hope that at least two get to Tabs level in 4-5 years.

Interesting to see where we are at about Round 15 / 16.
If we are in contention for the 8 or if we have fallen off a cliff?
The recent injuries are going to have a big impact over the next 4-5 games - where will we be at that stage?
When Young gets fit again - match fit he comes in and regardless of injury needs to replace Conca or Hughes, we can’t have both of them in the same team, my preference is for neither after this year.
The discussion has been about our oversupply of tall backs, no crystal ball - but can we get either Hamling or Pearce back to play consistently- looks less likely than probable.
Allir Allir in hindsight would have been a great pick up for us - now knowing the continuity of issues with Hamling and Pearce. Like others have said, these types can be found later on in the draft, earlier on Bazzo looks like a player you would consider both forward and back and let his development decide his position- similar to Naughton.
Midfield for me is the biggest concern, we need a potential A grader to get the ball from the clearances forward, Fyfe getting older and Mundy will leave a massive hole on current performances this year.
Also really need that top tier forward , not a Schache bust but a natural forward - hopefully Williams or van Rooyen, really would like to see them play well at WAFL level or dominate Colts.
We don’t have the picks to get all of these parts, so I’m afraid we may need to trade an established player to strengthen our draft hand.
This years draft is the biggest one for our club in the past 11 years, if we don’t get our pieces right we will be consigned to the 6 - 12 range for quite some time.

If the injuries stabilise, I think we'll continue to do what we have so far. Beat **** teams and lose to half decent or good ones. I think we are basically the step before flat track bullies.

The problem with Aliir (salary aside) would be that we'd have to tell at least 1 of Aliir, Hammer or Pearce that they are not B22. I am not sure we would do that to our boys and no way Aliir comes over as depth when he is clearly good enough to be in Ports 10 best players.

It's got to be the KPFs first just because of development time. I reckon we could get 4-5 more years out of Tabs which is about how long KPFs take to become somewhat consistent.

Once you have a quality spine, you can drop your first pick every year on a midfielder or small/medium forward. It's why West Coast are perennially competitive.

 

[Scham]

We have to get Roberts or Johnson with our first pick, then Williams or Van Rooyen with our next.

 

[Joao]

We have to get Roberts or Johnson with our first pick, then Williams or Van Rooyen with our next.

That would mean Williams or JVR are 2nd round talents. We need to hope they are first round talents available to us.

 

[Scham]

That would mean Williams or JVR are 2nd round talents. We need to hope they are first round talents available to us.

The second round still unearths some talent. Allen and English just a couple of examples. We can always trade up if they’re both looking like going first round.

 

[Joao]

The second round still unearths some talent. Allen and English just a couple of examples. We can always trade up if they’re both looking like going first round.

I don't want to have to do a list of quality KPFs and where they went in the draft, but I will if you make me!

Trading up is so expensive and we still have numerous issues to fill. I want us to do it only for something exceptional.

 

[Lach72]

I don't want to have to do a list of quality KPFs and where they went in the draft, but I will if you make me!

Trading up is so expensive and we still have numerous issues to fill. I want us to do it only for something exceptional.

This is the issue. What are we trading up with. I want to go into next years draft with a full deck, if possible, unless for the below scenario
One reason why I want to pick the eyes out of the MSD. I'd like to have a one or two prospects in the shed and use any other stuff only for picking academy picks at severe discount

 

[Scham]

I don't want to have to do a list of quality KPFs and where they went in the draft, but I will if you make me!

Trading up is so expensive and we still have numerous issues to fill. I want us to do it only for something exceptional.

I think we’re that desperate that we just have to add that amount of quality this year so whatever it takes.

 

[Taylor]

I don't want to have to do a list of quality KPFs and where they went in the draft, but I will if you make me!

Trading up is so expensive and we still have numerous issues to fill. I want us to do it only for something exceptional.

You're right. We need some father son/concession key forward picks.

Current best performing:
Walker - concession program
McKay - pick #10
Hooker - pick #54
Riewoldt - pick #13
Taberner - rookie list
King - pick #6
Bruce - zone selection
Darling - 2nd round priority pick
Josh J Kennedy - pick #4
Naughton - pick #9
Allen - pick #21
Mihocek - rookie
Hawkins - father son

 

[Joao]

I think we’re that desperate that we just have to add that amount of quality this year so whatever it takes.

I don't think it has to be all this year. I definitely think a KPF this year, but we will need to draft well for the next 3 I'd say. We need to be patient, not being patient is exactly how we got in this mess in the first place.

 

[Joao]

You're right. We need some father son/concession key forward picks.

Current best performing:
Walker - concession program
McKay - pick #10
Hooker - pick #54
Riewoldt - pick #13
Taberner - rookie list
King - pick #6
Bruce - zone selection
Darling - 2nd round priority pick
Josh J Kennedy - pick #4
Naughton - pick #9
Allen - pick #21
Mihocek - rookie
Hawkins - father son

For all his flaws, this list just highlights how much of a home run Tabs is for us. To get a 3 gpg forward from the rookies list is way above expectations.

It also shows how we shouldn't expect it again!

 

[Taylor]

For all his flaws, this list just highlights how much of a home run Tabs is for us. To get a 3 gpg forward from the rookies list is way above expectations.

It also shows how we shouldn't expect it again!

Taberner is a story of a player who didn't stop working hard and we get the rewards of that work.

Treacy would be the most likely to replicate the achievement but I still think Josh is a tad undersized.

Based on those estimates above we need to add six best 22 players to our list in two off season periods.

 

[Scham]

I don't think it has to be all this year. I definitely think a KPF this year, but we will need to draft well for the next 3 I'd say. We need to be patient, not being patient is exactly how we got in this mess in the first place.

But if none of the KF’s are rated as first round this year??? Or next...or next...?

 

[wayToGo_]

The second round still unearths some talent. Allen and English just a couple of examples. We can always trade up if they’re both looking like going first round.

English was a 1st round pick. Allen was the 2nd pick in the 2nd round.

 

[G Mus]

How’s Sokol going this year? Had a rotten run at it, got strung along by 2 clubs (not us as he’d have hoped), went to VIC to try and play VFL and the pandemic got in the way

 

[meesy]

You're right. We need some father son/concession key forward picks.

Current best performing:
Walker - concession program
McKay - pick #10
Hooker - pick #54
Riewoldt - pick #13
Taberner - rookie list
King - pick #6
Bruce - zone selection
Darling - 2nd round priority pick
Josh J Kennedy - pick #4
Naughton - pick #9
Allen - pick #21
Mihocek - rookie
Hawkins - father son

Finding a good key forward is like shaking the magic 8 ball

 

[Joao]

But if none of the KF’s are rated as first round this year??? Or next...or next...?

There will be. I don't know how far you have to go back to find a top 20 (approx first round these days) without at least one KPF in it. They may be out of reach but there are at least 4 players that have been spoken about as potential first round KPFs.

2020 Thilthorp, McDonald
2019 Georgiades
2018 King x 2
2017 Brander, (Naughton)
2016 Marshall, (English)

etc.


I don't mind if we take 1 or 2 in the 2nd round as well in the near future, but we need to prioritise this part of the ground with the best talent available to us.

 

[Tundrawolf]

I am not as bullish on JVR as some here. I don't see him as a top 10 talent. He needs more strings to his bow than being a mark and kick type of forward, although he does both very well.

I think Williams as a KF has way more upside, even Bazzo as a non KF has more upside, only my opinion of course.

 

[stax on the mull]

That game is really a stand out so far, has sort of played a mixture of Ruck and Forward so far in his career but is a bit small to play ruck full time at AFL level (196cm~198cm) and also does not have a record of kicking many goals at all. I did not see the game on the weekend but from last year viewing has a good leap at the ball; not sure that he has good speed for a player of his size which will count against him. I think any club would want to see more positive results before considering.

Also just want to offer a lot of caution about the mid season draft and unrealistic expectations. I think it is highly likely that the clubs who do enter that draft will not be going for mature age ready built players but trying to get ahead by trying to pick speculative younger players who will have just missed out in the draft prior. In terms of them competing for a position in the team this year, this would mean they would be at a severe disadvantage to the existing youngsters we already had. I know that this mindset of the clubs is at odds with the intent behind the draft but doing what the AFL wants it to be used for is not necessarily what the clubs believe will give them the biggest advantage long term. Either way (Mature age or youngster that just missed out) I don't see much attraction beyond players that could have been picked in the rookie draft previously; as with any player taken anywhere they may become a superstar but picking at this point will yield the lowest possibility of that happening, more akin to playing lottery than any strategic bet. I would not care if we don't enter the mid-season draft, despite the doomsday cries we are not in a position to absolutely need to enter it - there is no position on the field for which we don't have a backup option of some form.

From what I remember hearing, he played ruck in Round 2 against SF because Claremont were short of ruckmen but also plays as a key position defender, which looks like was his position in the 2020 Reserves Grand Final.

Got a vague impression of good bit of play by a ruck in the 2019 colts GF - but not sure if the bit of play I'm associating with is the same player.