List Mgmt. 2021 Young Talent Time

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wayToGo_ said:
Georgiades only kicked 8 goals in 6 games at Colts level in his draft year. And only 3 goals total in the National Champs. He's only 192cm but he still went at #18.

McCarthy kicked 20 goals in 8 games and was seen as the second best KPF after Tom Boyd in his draft year. Went at #14. On talent he was worth that imo.

Amiss has kicked 51 goals in 15 games at Colts.`
Williams has kicked 40 goals in 15 games at Colts.
JVR has kicked 34 goals in 9 games at Colts and 3 goals in 5 games at League.
(thought I'd add in Motlop who has kicked 6 goals in 4 games at Colts, 1 goal in 1 game at Reserves, and 9 goals in 8 games at League)

As another comparison Logan McDonald kicked 21 goals in 9 games at League in his draft year. And went #4.

There is a reason these WA talls have all been talked about as potential first round picks. I actually feel they are being written off a bit because all three have performed so well - so people aren't believing that you can have three decent KPF prospects all out of WA in the same draft. You've even seen a bit of it with people saying "well the opposition they are playing against must be poor because all three are dominating". They haven't gotten to prove themselves against the Vics in the u19 champs unfortunately (or fortunately if we get them at bargain price).

The draft is always a bit of a lottery so I'm not guaranteeing these guys succeed but they've been showing plenty for a long time now - and are probably a safer bet than plenty we've seen in past years (especially from WA). Bazzo should also be in the conversation but as a defender. If they were 199cm+ I think everyone would be salivating over them. But as Georgiades has shown you don't need to be huge to still make an impact. If the athletic profile and attitude is good I'd be very happy with any or all of them.
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Interesting stuff… I think as a recruiter you are more looking for elite traits in these guys as opposed to their stats, though I accept they are both useful metrics. Looking for glimpses of play that stand out from these key forward types especially that translate to a higher level. Eg a turn of speed on the lead that will still generate clear separation at all levels, clean hands when marking, leading patterns that are standing out, contested/pack marking ability etc etc.
The law of average says that not all of Amiss, JVR and Williams will become 150 game AFL players. We just need to pick the right one/ones I suppose 🤷‍♂️
geordiades underwhelming colts stats are interesting. To me, he’s looked at home at AFL level from his very first game, so port recruiters obviously saw something they liked. Logan Mcd kicking 21 goals at league is stand out stuff - makes his selection as safe a pick as you could expect really.
 

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Dockeroo said:
Interesting stuff… I think as a recruiter you are more looking for elite traits in these guys as opposed to their stats, though I accept they are both useful metrics. Looking for glimpses of play that stand out from these key forward types especially that translate to a higher level. Eg a turn of speed on the lead that will still generate clear separation at all levels, clean hands when marking, leading patterns that are standing out, contested/pack marking ability etc etc.
The law of average says that not all of Amiss, JVR and Williams will become 150 game AFL players. We just need to pick the right one/ones I suppose 🤷‍♂️
geordiades underwhelming colts stats are interesting. To me, he’s looked at home at AFL level from his very first game, so port recruiters obviously saw something they liked. Logan Mcd kicking 21 goals at league is stand out stuff - makes his selection as safe a pick as you could expect really.
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Yep just a data point. I have my opinions about their athletic profiles, strengths, weaknesses, attitude etc as well but my post would have been a novel if I'd covered everything.

Logan is a great example, he was pick #4, kicked 21 goals in League and looked the most ready of all KPF prospects but showed less than Thilthorpe (pick #2) and Treacy (a rookie pick) last year. JUH was pick #1 and has shown less again so far. In the long run I highly doubt it will end up that way though.
 
wayToGo_ said:
Yep just a data point. I have my opinions about their athletic profiles, strengths, weaknesses, attitude etc as well but my post would have been a novel if I'd covered everything.

Logan is a great example, he was pick #4, kicked 21 goals in League and looked the most ready of all KPF prospects but showed less than Thilthorpe (pick #2) and Treacy (a rookie pick) last year. JUH was pick #1 and has shown less again so far. In the long run I highly doubt it will end up that way though.
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I think that Treacy is a slight anomaly as he would be clearly a top 30 choice if the Nab league was played last year. Good for us of course. The trait I would value most amongst the key forwards in temperament and accuracy with set shots.
I want to watch freo and be able to relax when our key forward mark the ball 30 m out that it’s inevitably going to be a goal. Juat like West coast fans have experienced the last few years with JK and co.
Whilst I love Tabs, you can’t say that about him. Or Lobb. Or pretty much anyone really in our forward line. Maybe sturt or Treacy. So that aspect alone has me leaning toward Amiss… without having really done any serious analysis of any of them.
 
Based on nothing but the State games i’ve seen and a couple of videos:

Amiss: Excellent goal sense, explosive on the lead, decent overhead, developing body, accurate but not an overly long kick, not really transferable to another position. Gunston comparison fairly accurate for mine.
Williams: Solid but not outstanding hands, decent kick (though missed an absolute gift in the first state game), big unit but not overly imposing, can play a rucking role. Strikes me as the kind of vanilla pick the Weags would take at their first pick and turn into a useful 200 gamer.
JVR: Great hands, nice field kick for a big fella (haven’t seen any of his goal kicking other than the winner in the State game where I was down the other end of the ground - looked a nice clutch finish), competitive beast who can also play defence, uses body well, not sure about speed off the mark but doesn’t seem slow. Reminds me a little of Roughie without the stand out forward craft.

My order of preference is:
JVR
Amiss
Williams
 
Dockernut said:
Based on nothing but the State games i’ve seen and a couple of videos:

Amiss: Excellent goal sense, explosive on the lead, decent overhead, developing body, accurate but not an overly long kick, not really transferable to another position. Gunston comparison fairly accurate for mine.
Williams: Solid but not outstanding hands, decent kick (though missed an absolute gift in the first state game), big unit but not overly imposing, can play a rucking role. Strikes me as the kind of vanilla pick the Weags would take at their first pick and turn into a useful 200 gamer.
JVR: Great hands, nice field kick for a big fella (haven’t seen any of his goal kicking other than the winner in the State game where I was down the other end of the ground - looked a nice clutch finish), competitive beast who can also play defence, uses body well, not sure about speed off the mark but doesn’t seem slow. Reminds me a little of Roughie without the stand out forward craft.

My order of preference is:
JVR
Amiss
Williams
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Interesting analysis and appreciated. This is similar to how I've read some other local posters describe and rate those players, whereas those who have possibly never seen them live tend to put Amiss ahead.

With Lobb potentially leaving JVR and Williams being much closer to being AFL ready is also a plus. And of course Williams having some capacity in the ruck in addition to that.
 
JVR and Williams seem to be ranked between 20 and 30 in any draft ranking without a heavy WA bias.

Pretty one if not both will be there at Pick 19.

Having said that we should go with Amiss at Pick 10.
 

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theGav56 said:
Interesting analysis and appreciated. This is similar to how I've read some other local posters describe and rate those players, whereas those who have possibly never seen them live tend to put Amiss ahead.

With Lobb potentially leaving JVR and Williams being much closer to being AFL ready is also a plus. And of course Williams having some capacity in the ruck in addition to that.
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Williams having a late birthday has more development in him, as well as growth physically. But I can’t see him rucking at AFL level, he’s doing it in colts as they didn’t have anyone else to do it. Which has robbed him of forward time. I really want to see some combine testing of Williams, as he gives me the Hawkins feel with the way he goes about his work, would be nice to see some that in combine testing.

JVR is a smart leading forward type who has good leading patterns and solid hands. I think of a Hogan, Gunston style, which I don’t see as key forward but more a third tall. Or also called general forward. JVR also has the highest goal average in colts per game. Something that gets lost in the total goal count.

Amiss, reminds me a lot of Tom Marshall. Has a few things in his game to work on. Which will happen in a professional environment.

Who will continue to develop the most over the next few years… Depends on what’s going on between the ears I guess.

None of them however fill the Lobb size hole in the forward line.

So who is most ready for AFL… probably JVR.

Who will kick the most goals at AFL level.. possibly JVR.

I wouldn’t be banking on the Key Position forward in this draft, but next years is looking very good.

Williams in Hawkins style, and Amiss in a Tom Marshall or even dare I say JK, style are the most likely Key Forward of the above.

But I would be taking JVR first as he has a higher likely goal kicking ability, as a tall General forward type.
 
Walkingwounded said:
Williams having a late birthday has more development in him, as well as growth physically. But I can’t see him rucking at AFL level, he’s doing it in colts as they didn’t have anyone else to do it. Which has robbed him of forward time. I really want to see some combine testing of Williams, as he gives me the Hawkins feel with the way he goes about his work, would be nice to see some that in combine testing.

JVR is a smart leading forward type who has good leading patterns and solid hands. I think of a Hogan, Gunston style, which I don’t see as key forward but more a third tall. Or also called general forward. JVR also has the highest goal average in colts per game. Something that gets lost in the total goal count.

Amiss, reminds me a lot of Tom Marshall. Has a few things in his game to work on. Which will happen in a professional environment.

Who will continue to develop the most over the next few years… Depends on what’s going on between the ears I guess.

None of them however fill the Lobb size hole in the forward line.

So who is most ready for AFL… probably JVR.

Who will kick the most goals at AFL level.. possibly JVR.

I wouldn’t be banking on the Key Position forward in this draft, but next years is looking very good.

Williams in Hawkins style, and Amiss in a Tom Marshall or even dare I say JK, style are the most likely Key Forward of the above.

But I would be taking JVR first as he has a higher likely goal kicking ability, as a tall General forward type.
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thanks for that. I'm not really thinking about Williams running around in the ruck, more of him doing the job in set plays in the forward line. Hawkins is brilliant with that, but it is a reasonable way to share the ruck duties.
 
theGav56 said:
thanks for that. I'm not really thinking about Williams running around in the ruck, more of him doing the job in set plays in the forward line. Hawkins is brilliant with that, but it is a reasonable way to share the ruck duties.
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I think we wait till the combine results to see who will improve.
They maybe still growing, look at their athletic traits, etc.
The talk on Jackson was he was only 199cm, too small to full time ruck, how would he go forward?
Had an AFL body, highly athletic, mobile, good hands, good below his knees.
He liked the contest, and the Dees liked what they saw and didn’t hold back.
You can’t teach that hunger, Luke lost 2 front teeth and didn’t blink an eye.
Usually the combines throw up results that surprise.
 
blue shark said:
I think we wait till the combine results to see who will improve.
They maybe still growing, look at their athletic traits, etc.
The talk on Jackson was he was only 199cm, too small to full time ruck, how would he go forward?
Had an AFL body, highly athletic, mobile, good hands, good below his knees.
He liked the contest, and the Dees liked what they saw and didn’t hold back.
You can’t teach that hunger, Luke lost 2 front teeth and didn’t blink an eye.
Usually the combines throw up results that surprise.
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I’m not sure any of them are at Luke Jackson’s level.
I remember watching him in the carnival and he stood out like as sore thumb as a level above. It wasn’t a reach by melbourne at pick 3 at all really.
it a real shame we haven’t got to see this years WA team against vic metro and vic country
 
Ill only be chuffed if we get JVR. This reminds me of the Oscar Allen scenario. Everyone knew he could play and would make it at the next level. I believe it's the same with JVR. Just pull the trigger. Erasmus, JVR, then see what happens
 

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