List Mgmt. 2022 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals: Kinnear & Dalrymple - we march to no drum but our own!

[Ticky009]

 

[anotherletdown]

Ok. You dragged me out of retirement... such a sucker for the draft periods

He's my take. We need time, not necessarily players, outside of 1 or 2 positions. We're quite lucky in that sense. The positions though, from my side... tall, tall and taller. So KPD, swingman, ruck. That fills holes and key depth (impending or current) and should help keep us relevant for years to come. I know we won't do this though. The other thing we could do with is X-factor and I don't care what size that comes in.

But this draft.... I can't work out if I like it or hate it. I hate that both our picks are after the drop off that's for sure. Do you trade up, trade out, split, hold? I contemplated all of them and almost daily. I think trade up is zero chance now, trade out is a possible wildcard and split or hold the most likely.

So enough babbling...
Barnett - for me this is a no-brainer. Best available and a need. Don't fool yourself he'll be there at our second - he won't, Collingwood will pounce. Can cover the ground and already close to AFL size, can drop back and float forward if needed. Gun
George - maybe not a list need but he was a possible top 5 before the knee. We have the picks, depth and culture to allow the long game. Will become multi- positional, has x-factor and hurt factor. A gamble admittedly but we can afford it.
Teal - I'm not sure we'll be this lucky, he could be gone. A year ago I penciled him in as our first pick, he's our type but injuries got him... but if that means he drops to our third I will start believing there is a god. A bit of height, decision making and ball use, yes thanks. Will replace Lloyd.

Now the wildcard, trade out. Dees have both theirs and Freo future firsts on the table. Maybe not for us but would you do it? I'd love it, just for the excitement of 3 first rounders next year and the thought of Beatson playing 3rd round lottery this year. I actually like some of the mid to later value options this year. Van Es, Keeler, Gallager, Gruzewski, Teal, Hagen, D'Aloia and Bradtke. A couple of those being slightly overage wouldn't be bad either. Plus Broadbent and Lemmey who haven't kicked on but still represent a high risk/reward proposition.

Anyway, there's my 2c deposited. As you were.

p.s I don't hate the mini mac option out of WA either

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Ok. You dragged me out of retirement... such a sucker for the draft periods

He's my take. We need time, not necessarily players, outside of 1 or 2 positions. We're quite lucky in that sense. The positions though, from my side... tall, tall and taller. So KPD, swingman, ruck. That fills holes and key depth (impending or current) and should help keep us relevant for years to come. I know we won't do this though. The other thing we could do with is X-factor and I don't care what size that comes in.

But this draft.... I can't work out if I like it or hate it. I hate that both our picks are after the drop off that's for sure. Do you trade up, trade out, split, hold? I contemplated all of them and almost daily. I think trade up is zero chance now, trade out is a possible wildcard and split or hold the most likely.

So enough babbling...
Barnett - for me this is a no-brainer. Best available and a need. Don't fool yourself he'll be there at our second - he won't, Collingwood will pounce. Can cover the ground and already close to AFL size, can drop back and float forward if needed. Gun
George - maybe not a list need but he was a possible top 5 before the knee. We have the picks, depth and culture to allow the long game. Will become multi- positional, has x-factor and hurt factor. A gamble admittedly but we can afford it.
Teal - I'm not sure we'll be this lucky, he could be gone. A year ago I penciled him in as our first pick, he's our type but injuries got him... but if that means he drops to our third I will start believing there is a god. A bit of height, decision making and ball use, yes thanks. Will replace Lloyd.

Now the wildcard, trade out. Dees have both theirs and Freo future firsts on the table. Maybe not for us but would you do it? I'd love it, just for the excitement of 3 first rounders next year and the thought of Beatson playing 3rd round lottery this year. I actually like some of the mid to later value options this year. Van Es, Keeler, Gallager, Gruzewski, Teal, Hagen, D'Aloia and Bradtke. A couple of those being slightly overage wouldn't be bad either. Plus Broadbent and Lemmey who haven't kicked on but still represent a high risk/reward proposition.

Anyway, there's my 2c deposited. As you were.

p.s I don't hate the mini mac option out of WA either

I hadn’t even considered the prospect of a trade down until today.

But if we did happen to trade down into the 2nd round and selected Sam Gilbey …. I’d be nearly as happy as when we selected Sheldrick (nearly, but not quite).

I like the phrase “playing third round lottery” too - kudos!

 

[Ticky009]

Reported in the WA media today that we are strongly considering another Aquinas boy - Roan O’Hehir

Currently captain of the South Freo colts team.

Swans considering 4th Aquinas player as shock bolter emerges

WA and Aquinas College’s connection with Sydney could grow further in next week’s draft with the club considering a smokey as a late-round or rookie pick.

www.pilbaranews.com.au

Thanks DB - but you need to go back a page in this thread - because hairy biker has ninjad you and was asking for your opinion on this very player

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Swans considering 4th Aquinas player as shock bolter emerges

WA and Aquinas College’s connection with Sydney could grow further in next week’s draft with the club considering a smokey as a late-round or rookie pick.

thewest.com.au

The West linking us with another Aquinas player.





Thoughts Dubai Quacker?

PS Article does also mention fellow Aquinas player (and brother of) Connor McDonald has also attracted the Swans’ interest.
PPS O'Hehir wasn't invited to the National or WA draft combines. Connor attended the WA event. Connor was the Aquinas football captain.
O'Hehir is listed at 177cm, 72kg on the WAFL website. DOB 10-Mar-2004

Apologies hairy biker - Ticky009 just alerted me to the fact you’d posted this!

I honestly don’t know anything other than what’s on the WAFL website. Captained the colts team, played a few games in the WAFL reserves (so he’s evidently no twig!) - a mid who seems to rack up 20+ disposals and plenty of tackles each week.

Jordan McArdle has a good track record, so I reckon this could be a genuine possibility.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Apologies hairy biker - Ticky009 just alerted me to the fact you’d posted this!

I honestly don’t know anything other than what’s on the WAFL website. Captained the colts team, played a few games in the WAFL reserves (so he’s evidently no twig!) - a mid who seems to rack up 20+ disposals and plenty of tackles each week.

Jordan McArdle has a good track record, so I reckon this could be a genuine possibility.

Perhaps unfair but at his reported height and build he would need Gulden level tricks. Mind you I have not even seen a 'Sizzler Tape' of the lad.

 

[SeanM]

It is interesting if we are willing to give up multiple picks to move into the top 10 presumably to target a higher rated midfielder.

• It probably reflects the state of our list. Where we would rather get one player who is a better chance of eventually improving our best 22. Compared to other clubs who are desperate to draft multiple players to fill various positions.
• If we are targeting a top 10 midfielder. Maybe we are confident we cover other positions with later picks. Presumably Edwards covers defence and there might be some non Barnett rucks that can be selected later in the draft.
• I think we need to be conscious of how much first team opportunity a first round draftee will get in their first 2-3 years. Because it is harder to retain early picks if they are playing reserves for 2 years.

 

[anotherletdown]

I hadn’t even considered the prospect of a trade down until today.

But if we did happen to trade down into the 2nd round and selected Sam Gilbey …. I’d be nearly as happy as when we selected Sheldrick (nearly, but not quite).

I like the phrase “playing third round lottery” too - kudos!

I remember your joy at the Sheldrick pick last year, I was flip side on the Wilmot miss.
This draft and where our picks sit keep trade down right in play. If 15-30 are considered pretty flat we should see if other recruiting teams think otherwise

 

[BloodySwan]

Rumour on the main board is Carlton rate the first 25 picks. If true we will very likely trade out for next year and hang back in the draft.

Pick 14 for Carlton future first is a fair trade.

Hawks have 2x second round picks. Pick 17 for their future second with some other shenanigans would also be a favorable swap

 

[tombomb]

Rumour on the main board is Carlton rate the first 25 picks. If true we will very likely trade out for next year and hang back in the draft.

Pick 14 for Carlton future first is a fair trade.

Hawks have 2x second round picks. Pick 17 for their future second with some other shenanigans would also be a favorable swap

'Very likely' seems a bit of a stretch but I don't mind the Carlton deal. Absolute worst case scenario it is pick 14 for pick 18 next year.

And I would always take a bet that Carlton are going to be worse than what they and the media are predicting they are going to be.

 

[BloodySwan]

'Very likely' seems a bit of a stretch but I don't mind the Carlton deal. Absolute worst case scenario it is pick 14 for pick 18 next year.

And I would always take a bet that Carlton are going to be worse than what they and the media are predicting they are going to be.

If I'm Carlton I believe I can win the flag. Their best is up there but they petered off as the season went on.

We consider this 1st round as good as most second round picks so I wont be surprised to see us trade out to clubs second rounds - Carlton's F2 would be a bit too far though

 

[tombomb]

If I'm Carlton I believe I can win the flag. Their best is up there but they petered off as the season went on.

We consider this 1st round as good as most second round picks so I wont be surprised to see us trade out to clubs second rounds - Carlton's F2 would be a bit too far though

If I am Carlton, I would be thinking that as well. Along with the 12 other sets of supporters who think their club is finishing top 4 next year.

But we have 20 years of evidence of Carlton thinking they are going to be one thing, and finishing up as another.

 

[Membling]

Rumour on the main board is Carlton rate the first 25 picks. If true we will very likely trade out for next year and hang back in the draft.

Pick 14 for Carlton future first is a fair trade.

Hawks have 2x second round picks. Pick 17 for their future second with some other shenanigans would also be a favorable swap

Would offer pick 17 in that scenario.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Would offer pick 17 in that scenario.

Yeah or 14 if we get a better future pick swap. Their future 1 I don’t mind.

 

[caesar88]

• I think we need to be conscious of how much first team opportunity a first round draftee will get in their first 2-3 years. Because it is harder to retain early picks if they are playing reserves for 2 years.

This.

Recent history has shown that unless it's a ready-made top prospect like Bailey Smith, young mids just don't get games in sides contending for top four. We have got our young midfield now - Mills, Rowbottom and Warner are all 25 or under and if we keep them then they won't be making any room in the midfield for newcomers. We have Gulden who we presumably want to get in there, and, if they're any good, Sheldrick and Roberts.

If we draft a mid, dare I say it, I really think we're just drafting an automatic flight risk.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

This.

Recent history has shown that unless it's a ready-made top prospect like Bailey Smith, young mids just don't get games in sides contending for top four. We have got our young midfield now - Mills, Rowbottom and Warner are all 25 or under and if we keep them then they won't be making any room in the midfield for newcomers. We have Gulden who we presumably want to get in there, and, if they're any good, Sheldrick and Roberts.

If we draft a mid, dare I say it, I really think we're just drafting an automatic flight risk.

Yet KPP aren't? They all are, you have to back your system that's basically what it comes down to. You never know when injuries occur.

 

[Bloods86]

We already have two inside mids in Sheldrick and Roberts.

We're going to pick at least one mid, maybe more, we just will. Dalrymple loves mids. We've also lost Clarke to the senior team, Taylor, Bell, Ronke, so I wouldn't be expecting Sheldrick and Roberts to be left as the sum of our inside mids in reserves. We'll want to have at least 3 or 4 developing there.

 

[Mathelios]

Yet KPP aren't? They all are, you have to back your system that's basically what it comes down to. You never know when injuries occur.

I think the point is that the point is that there will be very minimal opportunity to break into our midfield for the foreseeable future. We have a solid young midfield and Sheldrick and Roberts already waiting in the wings, hard to see any of our current midfield crop retiring any time soon (Parker is the oldest and probably has a solid 3 years left in him). In terms of KPP's we have Bud, Reid, Rampe and Hickey all probably retiring in the next year or two. So that's where most of the opportunities will be to crack into our best 22 and where we should concentrate our draft picks IMO

 

[LukeParkerno1]

We're going to pick at least one mid, maybe more, we just will. Dalrymple loves mids. We've also lost Clarke to the senior team, Taylor, Bell, Ronke, so I wouldn't be expecting Sheldrick and Roberts to be left as the sum of our inside mids in reserves. We'll want to have at least 3 or 4 developing there.

You do know when we take a mid and flip our second to next year that my hunch will be right lol

I'm not sure we rate the tall options one single bit, everything out of the club is like we rate the top 10, that's it. Then it's a lottery, my gut says we take one first rounder, flip the second to Carlton (or whoever) for their future 1. They take pick 43 and our next as dead set dart throw picks.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I think the point is that the point is that there will be very minimal opportunity to break into our midfield for the foreseeable future. We have a solid young midfield and Sheldrick and Roberts already waiting in the wings, hard to see any of our current midfield crop retiring any time soon (Parker is the oldest and probably has a solid 3 years left in him). In terms of KPP's we have Bud, Reid, Rampe and Hickey all probably retiring in the next year or two. So that's where most of the opportunities will be to crack into our best 22 and where we should concentrate our draft picks IMO

I agree with you but we aint getting Cadman and Jefferson is likely gone, the taels aren't there. Busslinger gone. Think we rate all 3, but then it's slim pickings. That's the feeling I'm getting

 

[Mathelios]

I agree with you but we aint getting Cadman and Jefferson is likely gone, the taels aren't there. Busslinger gone. Think we rate all 3, but then it's slim pickings. That's the feeling I'm getting

Personally i'd love to see us take Barnett, but I agree that in terms of the others if there is a dearth of quality talls there's no point taking one for the sake of it. Guys with X-factor like Brayden George might be worth a shot, otherwise it might be worth trading one of our picks into next years draft like you have mentioned, i can see this happening.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Personally i'd love to see us take Barnett, but I agree that in terms of the others if there is a dearth of quality talls there's no point taking one for the sake of it. Guys with X-factor like Brayden George might be worth a shot, otherwise it might be worth trading one of our picks into next years draft like you have mentioned, i can see this happening.

If Allen is there or Hotton I feel we'll take them. George maybe but he's a huge risk, I just don't love those types of injuries. No idea on Barnett, we may have a mature one lined up and we pass on Barnett

 

[ShireSwan]

Would be total madness to trade out any of our first rounders this year IMO.
We need some talls in now, so they can be contributing to the flags in 2,3,4 years.
This is the year I'd consider trading our future 1st pick OUT to get another one IN NOW, not the other way round!

Barnett + Hayes/Steddle sets us up nicely for the flag tilt, or we've had an absolute dud draft day this year.

Didn't Dalrymple collect an entire team full of midfielders at the Dogs?
It left them short of KPPs when they needed them come finals time and prob cost them a couple of flags. (ignoring the corrupt farce of 2016).
We don't want to repeat that error.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I still see Lizard as a mid (at some point).

I reckon we’ll take a running defender.

 

[Millky95]

I still see Lizard as a mid (at some point).

I reckon we’ll take a running defender.

If I had it, I'd show the clip of Blakey as a mid where he went to hip and shoulder someone and bounced off them like a tennis ball against a wall

 

[ShireSwan]

Rumour on the main board is Carlton rate the first 25 picks. If true we will very likely trade out for next year and hang back in the draft.

Pick 14 for Carlton future first is a fair trade.

Hawks have 2x second round picks. Pick 17 for their future second with some other shenanigans would also be a favorable swap

If only there was a quick option where I could give those ideas two thumbs down.