Training 2022 Pre-season

[FLVanLandingham]

i imagine a Fagan jersey would sell out quick

granted i have no clue whether there already is

 

[lionshine]

I agreed with pretty much everything that was said from the panelists there. All fair and reasonable with the exception of Riewoldt saying Lyons is the only player on the wrong end of his prime and the likes of Neale, Zorko ect. are in the middle of their prime. Shocking take there, I think he may have got Zorko and Lyons confused. Lyons at 29 is at the peak of his powers right now whereas Zorks at 33 is unfortunately slowing down a touch(Still capable of pulling out a career best season though in my opinion ala Travis Boak who did so at a similar age).

I also disagree with Jordan Lewis saying we will finish 5th I think we are top 4 certainties. Outside of those couple small things, however, I agreed with the analysis.

Just on the team defence that Riewoldt and Lewis discussed at the end, I do agree that we need to improve in that area but only in consistency. I think at our best we play great team defence e.g. the Geelong game at the Gabba last year where our pressure suffocated them all night. If we can bring that more consistently this season in addition to our brilliant attacking game complimented by what is in my biased opinion the best forward line in the league, I think we'll be very difficult to beat!

 

[lionshine]

I'd be inclined to manage Zorko and Rich throughout the season and have them primed for finals. Rich in particular I think we can cover with the likes of Madden, Ah Chee or Prior capable of stepping in and playing a role off of half back. Wilmot for a game or two potentially as well. When I say manage I mean maybe 2 games max, Rich is one of our key players and I'm not suggesting we manage him Hodge or Birchall style but 1-2 games to keep him fresh each side of the bye wouldn't be the worst idea.

If Zorko is carrying an achilles injury I back our depth in to cover him and rest him up until mid year even if that means his foot is ready to go. I'd take Zorko at close to 100% for the second half of the year and finals over Zorko at 65%-80% for the full year. I'm not downplaying the importance of Zorko by the way, particularly the energy and leadership he brings. We'd lose a lot not having him until mid year but I really do have a lot of belief in the guys on the fringe of the 22 like Dev, Prior, Ah Chee even Matho to help cover him if that is what we need to do. It would be made even easier if Rayner, Berry and Cockatoo are fit and playing consistent footy and someone like Bailey goes to another level.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Once Hipwood is fit then it has to be him and Daniher, Mcstay as our key forwards. You couldn't play Fullarton as well.

That's the popular view. I'd still like to see 3 key forwards + 1 ruckman on field, with a spare tall forward/ruckman on the bench. That would afford us the luxury of holding a tall forward deep inside 50 more often than we do now, which I see as a key factor in winning a flag. If that setup is going to work for any team it will be us, given the mobility of our talls (all of McStay, Hipwood, Daniher and Fullarton). If it turns out it makes us too slow, so be it - I'll willingly admit to being wrong. But let's know, instead of guessing.

 

[ItsRaynerGoals]

Daniel Cherny from Code Sports is reporting we will likely be aligned to Coburg and Port in the event we need COVID top ups.

 

[ItsRaynerGoals]

 

[Lazza16]

I rate our list higher than the Bulldogs (and not that different from the Demons). A fit Hipwood and McStay and we would easily beat the Dogs. A fit Payne and we win that game. We had large periods of midfield dominance despite playing with an injured Neale, returning Berry, unfit Cockatoo, no Rayner. The difference was Payne going down and the Dogs triple teaming Daniher so all our forward 50 entries were easily rebuffed until the Dogs could finally get a stoppage win and advance the ball. Birchall retiring means we can get a more accountable defender in place and our attack wont be suffering much given the limitations of Birchall near the end and the development of players like Coleman and Answerth. Demons May/Lever/Petty wont be able to contain a fully fit Daniher/Hipwood/McStay; especially if the crumbing forwards are Cameron and McCarthy with Rayner/Berry/Cockatoo/Bailey rotating as a M//F. Andrews/Gardiner/Adams are formidable enough to neutralise Brown/Jackson/Fritsch. Given our relative youth we should be primed for a period of dominance. I think 2019 was a fluke of having an easy draw and underestimated line up. 2020 we had a significant advantage against lockdown fatigue and a healthy list. 2021 was when our window would have officially begun with all our 2017+ draft players entering their prime years and our young talls maturing. The only list I am worried about in the future are the Dogs with JUH/Darcy/Naughton and their cavalcade of midfield talent.

Mentally fit umpires ....we win that game easily.

 

[Timetoroarlike44]

That's the popular view. I'd still like to see 3 key forwards + 1 ruckman on field, with a spare tall forward/ruckman on the bench. That would afford us the luxury of holding a tall forward deep inside 50 more often than we do now, which I see as a key factor in winning a flag. If that setup is going to work for any team it will be us, given the mobility of our talls (all of McStay, Hipwood, Daniher and Fullarton). If it turns out it makes us too slow, so be it - I'll willingly admit to being wrong. But let's know, instead of guessing.

I think in particular if Rayner and Cockatoo are playing, who are big bodies and good overhead, we are tall enough to keep the ball in there.

Some teams only have 2 legitimate key forwards. We would have 2 key forwards over 2m, another at 196cm, and another ruckman rotating through at 204cm. Seems a bit top heavy to me.

Having said that i don't mind trying it. If it perhaps stretches teams and makes them worry about US, then why not give it a go. It would depend a lot on how much Fort would be any sort of target in the forward line, and how good he is in the ruck. If he is particularly good in either role then you try to find a spot for him. If he is a level below Oscar, then I think he just becomes the automatic back-up.

 

[KissKiss]

Plus McCarthy who can play tall pretty well for a short guy.

 

[Dalions]

 

[Grasshopper17]

Mentally fit umpires ....we win that game easily.

Unpopular opinion on this board... this bloke knows his stuff

 

[Grasshopper17]

I think in particular if Rayner and Cockatoo are playing, who are big bodies and good overhead, we are tall enough to keep the ball in there.

Now this is an interesting comment which made me do some googling. Rayner is 187cm. Bailey Fritsch is only 188. And yes we've seen Rayner take some very decent overhead contested marks inside 50. To me Fritsch plays much taller than 188, so if Rayner can bring similar traits to our forward line that may satisfy my argument.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Unpopular opinion on this board... this bloke knows his stuff

See the one with 2 minutes to go not paid to Rich. That was the most blatant holding the ball and the umpire shit the bed, was disgraceful. From that ball up they go and score, if that is paid Rich sends it to within 20 meters of goal and that’s if he doesn’t pin point a forward. The best kick in the league. It cost us the game.

 

[Grasshopper17]

See the one with 2 minutes to go not paid to Rich. That was the most blatant holding the ball and the umpire sh*t the bed, was disgraceful. From that ball up they go and score, if that is paid Rich sends it to within 20 meters of goal and that’s if he doesn’t pin point a forward. The best kick in the league. It cost us the game.

I'd argue McCarthy kneeing Payne in the head whilst flying for a mark that was Payne's ball was far more costly than that.

 

[mattsmob]

See the one with 2 minutes to go not paid to Rich. That was the most blatant holding the ball and the umpire sh*t the bed, was disgraceful. From that ball up they go and score, if that is paid Rich sends it to within 20 meters of goal and that’s if he doesn’t pin point a forward. The best kick in the league. It cost us the game.

That’s the thing, a lot of these have more context to them that you can’t read on there. Multiple times we were pinged for free’s that were just let go for the Dogs. Either way I think most people have come to accept that the main issue we faced in the finals were injury’s and not umpires.

 

[Brett C]

See the one with 2 minutes to go not paid to Rich. That was the most blatant holding the ball and the umpire sh*t the bed, was disgraceful. From that ball up they go and score, if that is paid Rich sends it to within 20 meters of goal and that’s if he doesn’t pin point a forward. The best kick in the league. It cost us the game.

Comments that an umpire shit the bed are completely idiotic and we wonder why they’re short 1000’s of umpires across the country.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/mark-robinson-how-umpire-problem-became-a-football-crisis/news-story/e75cd3ed1f39b12516bac3dc307fb68d

 

[twhowler]

I'd argue McCarthy kneeing Payne in the head whilst flying for a mark that was Payne's ball was far more costly than that.

I actually thought Lester did really well coming on as his replacement, as a forward and then as a back when harris went forward.

After the dust settled, my frustration was the lack of innovation once we lost 2/3 key forwards. Given Harris was struggling down back, surely it should have been Payne as a key back and Harris forward. Very hard to outmark. My one criticism of Fagan is that he could, at times, shake things up more.

 

[briztoon]

Now this is an interesting comment which made me do some googling. Rayner is 187cm. Bailey Fritsch is only 188. And yes we've seen Rayner take some very decent overhead contested marks inside 50. To me Fritsch plays much taller than 188, so if Rayner can bring similar traits to our forward line that may satisfy my argument.

Rayner doesn’t have Fritsch’s pogo stick athleticism though. However Kai Lohman does.

 

[Grasshopper17]

That’s the thing, a lot of these have more context to them that you can’t read on there. Multiple times we were pinged for free’s that were just let go for the Dogs. Either way I think most people have come to accept that the main issue we faced in the finals were injury’s and not umpires.

Injuries and our inability to adapt quickly to them. There is no guarantee the same thing won't happen this year. Memories of Clark Keating almost singlehandedly carrying the ruck in the 2002 GF... Jonathan Brown meandering around the MCG in the 2003 decider not knowing whether he was in Melbourne or Mumbai, along with all the other blokes who were already banged up.

I actually thought Lester did really well coming on as his replacement, as a forward and then as a back when harris went forward.

After the dust settled, my frustration was the lack of innovation once we lost 2/3 key forwards. Given Harris was struggling down back, surely it should have been Payne as a key back and Harris forward. Very hard to outmark. My one criticism of Fagan is that he could, at times, shake things up more.

Lester did do well, but he didn't really play as a key target. The great goal he kicked in the third quarter was essentially in a crumbing role playing front and centre. Completely agree RE Andrews - we had to try and win the game earlier rather than with 5 minutes to go. Up to that point we essentially tried to save it. This is one thing I completely disagree with Fagan on - his thoughts that you have to win finals two or three times. Well, no. If you win it well enough the first time, once is enough. If we kick the next goal after leading by 19 points in the third quarter, we win the game. Too many times in recent years we have let teams back into games we have won. We need to become more ruthless, and get really good at kicking teams when they are down. And good teams.

(Coincidentally, the Bulldogs also led the Grand Final by 19 points in the third quarter...)

Rayner doesn’t have Fritsch’s pogo stick athleticism though. However Kai Lohman does.

Agree on Rayner. Yet to see Kai but trust your judgement and am excited. 185cm so again there or thereabouts.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Comments that an umpire sh*t the bed are completely idiotic and we wonder why they’re short 1000’s of umpires across the country.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/mark-robinson-how-umpire-problem-became-a-football-crisis/news-story/e75cd3ed1f39b12516bac3dc307fb68d

Feel free to have a go at explaining what happened then. Yes no doubt the game is short of umpires because of posts on BigFooty- and your suggesting my comment is idiotic.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

I'd argue McCarthy kneeing Payne in the head whilst flying for a mark that was Payne's ball was far more costly than that.

May have been costly but there we were in front with a couple of minutes left, if the umpire didn’t shit himself due to the fact it was deep into the last 1/4 and paid the decision he would have had it happened any other time throughout the year we may have just played in the grand final.

 

[Brett C]

Feel free to have a go at explaining what happened then. Yes no doubt the game is short of umpires because of posts on BigFooty- and your suggesting my comment is idiotic.

Wow news just in umpires aren’t perfect. I hope the next time a player makes a mistake that you claim they’ve shit the bed.

Feel free to become an umpire and show us how it’s done champ

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Wow news just in umpires aren’t perfect. I hope the next time a player makes a mistake that you claim they’ve sh*t the bed.

Feel free to become an umpire and show us how it’s done champ

No matter the point you are trying to make, if you end anything by calling someone else ‘champ’ you can’t help but sound like a goose.

 

[Gadzorks]

Dan McStay bar Harris Andrews is probably theory most important player.

How are all you Down on Dan people handling the Dan love?

 

[Gadzorks]

I agreed with pretty much everything that was said from the panelists there. All fair and reasonable with the exception of Riewoldt saying Lyons is the only player on the wrong end of his prime and the likes of Neale, Zorko ect. are in the middle of their prime. Shocking take there, I think he may have got Zorko and Lyons confused. Lyons at 29 is at the peak of his powers right now whereas Zorks at 33 is unfortunately slowing down a touch(Still capable of pulling out a career best season though in my opinion ala Travis Boak who did so at a similar age).

I also disagree with Jordan Lewis saying we will finish 5th I think we are top 4 certainties. Outside of those couple small things, however, I agreed with the analysis.

Just on the team defence that Riewoldt and Lewis discussed at the end, I do agree that we need to improve in that area but only in consistency. I think at our best we play great team defence e.g. the Geelong game at the Gabba last year where our pressure suffocated them all night. If we can bring that more consistently this season in addition to our brilliant attacking game complimented by what is in my biased opinion the best forward line in the league, I think we'll be very difficult to beat!

They should watch the women play - they are the definition of team defence.