Preview 2022 Rd 17 Carlton vs West Coast Sunday July 10 @ 4:40PM - Team Post #655

[COBALT BLUE]

And if you go back and look at Cerra's games playing for Fremantle a remarkably more impressive block of games than Dow hasn't even come close to putting together.

Adam Cerra and Paddy Dow AFL Stats Comparison

View attachment 1438292

stats present the picture
cerra is just making the cut and still building.....DOW still working on his tank etc
both of these guys are building their careers and would be valuable highly
LOB looks as tho be is well on the way after being a bigger write off than DOW.....LOB always had an elite tank

we need Cerra to nail the game against the eagles.....if you like Carlton needs to treat every game now till final Woods game as a GF
Cannot let the top 8 spot slip away....the group needs finals expose to the mix to get it on track for 2023

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Genuine question inbound…

When Voss says ‘we need to play our way for longer’…..who specially is not doing it? Everyone? Can’t be everyone right? And what is being done wrong? When he says this? Are guys forgetting their role? If it’s just ‘errors’ then I’m not sure what the fix for that is. But is it concentration?

Definitely the Mid fielders for me, and they've been relatively spared from injuries.
Except against Freo, they've looked nowhere near their 'old selves' since the Collingwood game.
It's not about TDK, he's actually been okay. Bringing in Weiters and Pitto would really help us, but that's not going to fix it.
We'll be tested against some of this years good sides soon, which will decide whether we are worthy finalists.
Is it too late in the season to blend in some different players into our mid - mix?
Martin, Durdin, Doch, Kemp, Dow, Carrol or Hayes?

 

[Jeremias]

Confident we respond here.

West Coast are on the improve but we're a good side and very rarely do good sides not respond to a poor outing.

It may not be pretty and we likely won't blow them away, just need to get the job done.

Need to subject myself to a replay before ins/outs...but I will say unless he's sore, Cerra will not be dropped.

 

[Arr0w]

Genuine question inbound….

When Voss says ‘we need to play our way for longer’…..who specially is not doing it? Everyone? Can’t be everyone right? And what is being done wrong? When he says this? Are guys forgetting their role? If it’s just ‘errors’ then I’m not sure what the fix for that is. But is it concentration?

Voss isn't singling out a player or few, it is directed at the team as a whole. That statement needs to go hand in hand with "we didn't respect their pressure"

Credit to the Saints for their pressure, but it was always going to be the response after a couple of poor weeks. Voss's frustration was about overusing the ball around the contest and not showing enough composure with the ball in general play and or taking heat out of the game by playing better tempo to ensure we moved the ball safely out of the back half, then driving it forward and allowing us to setup better defensively.

Sometimes you have to play wet weather footy to force the contests in the oppositions defensive half which allows you to setup better behind the ball.

Tactically, we were also beaten. The move of Cotts to Hill did its job to quell their drive somewhat but it also hurt us by losing a 2 way runner from deep back to deep forward, we lost link. A better move, would have been to send Newnes to Hill and play Cotts as a running HB. Although our small forwards did a poor job with Sinclair

Two or three of our forwards should have been playing higher, so our mids had shorter targets or a stronger hand with long with Harry and Charlie having space to lead into. After Howard went off, we never truly exploited the Battle on Harry matchup, where the forward line should have been cleared out. Even if they they wanted the +1, one of our forwards could have played 10-15 metres in front of the +1, then either used that player as a target if he wasn't matched up

Apart from that, there is absolutely no excuse for poor kicking at goals. Whether you are having a traditional set shot, or bending it round the corner, I just don't get why players don't take the full 30 seconds to compose themselves

Reinforcements coming. Weitering is our most vital cog missing at the moment. People say that losing Weitering doesn't help our scoring, but since his loss, we have struggled to kick more than 80 points, even in winning, yet prior to that, we have kicked 90+ on 7 occasions. Like the Demons losing May, you condense/add more numbers behind the ball due to being undersized and HB's and wingers are no longer in aggressive attacking positions. Add to that Pitto and other cogs that are better/important to our game

10 - 5 is a great base and I believe we will win at least 4 more games to secure a final's berth, beyond that, it will come down to who has the healthier list on the park

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Sat next to a pretty switched on guy, coming home from the footy the other night. He was a Hawks man, had a lot of knowledge about the game I thought. He shared that in his view as Carlton are a young and developing team, that it is totally expected that they will struggle with consistency of performance. He said that, this was never going to be their year and next year could be the one. Made sense to me.
Weitbot will be a huge in this week and I think we can beat Eagles. Even though they are getting much closer to full strength now. Hopefully Owies is fit and plays. Think we have really missed his manic pressure of late.
Weiters to replace Kemp.
Owies for Honey or Durdin.

 

[BlueTang]

Sat next to a pretty switched on guy, coming home from the footy the other night. He was a Hawks man, had a lot of knowledge about the game I thought. He shared that in his view as Carlton are a young and developing team, that it is totally expected that they will struggle with consistency of performance. He said that, this was never going to be their year and next year could be the one. Made sense to me.
Weitbot will be a huge in this week and I think we can beat Eagles. Even though they are getting much closer to full strength now. Hopefully Owies is fit and plays. Think we have really missed his manic pressure of late.
Weiters to replace Kemp.
Owies for Honey or Durdin.

Good call from your mate. I reckon they might keep Kemp in for height, not sure who Weits will replace.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Good call from your mate. I reckon they might keep Kemp in for height, not sure who Weits will replace.

Like the look of Kemp, I reckon having Weits as well as Young in support will really help him. Hope he can keep his spot, maybe Plow or Newnes could be dropped.

 

[Loramarthalas]

Apart from that, there is absolutely no excuse for poor kicking at goals. Whether you are having a traditional set shot, or bending it round the corner, I just don't get why players don't take the full 30 seconds to compose themselves

Charlie Curnow is the prime example here. He needs to learn a proper routine. Stop. Breathe. Relax. Then take the same number of steps and kick through the ball the same way every time. Practice the exact same routine over and over and over until you can do it in your sleep. There's no excuse for guy with his talent to put off the hard work of learning how to kick goals properly. McKay did it. Casboult did it. Cripps did it. It can be learned, but you have to take it seriously. I'm really tired of watching blow easy shots because he has no rhythm or routine to his kicking at goal.

 

[charred_fate]

Interesting that the focus is on our young or lesser players. I thought our ‘star’ players were far more disappointing than many our lower tier players. They were terrible. A few of the lesser lights were keeping us within range imo. Cotts is the best of the Newnes, LOB, Cotts trio. I think he’ll make a career with us now.

Cerra has had two shockers in a row now (ignoring the Tigers). That’s concerning. He’s more of the same of what we already have - strong body, lacks explosiveness and speed.. and geez we get exposed for that sometimes.

I’d be keeping all of Durds, Honey and Motlop and looking to lose Newnes and LOB or Plow.

I’m going to keep focusing on Harry until he changes his ways. Weakest player of his size I’ve ever seen in the marking contest. His efforts to win frees are embarrassing and distract him from being the dominant player he could be.

Voss needs to face scrutiny too … completely out-coached. Stubborn too.

Every cloud: we were completely outplayed, barely fired a shot, and yet were within reach and had more scoring shots. Astounding.

Big game. Hope the coach learnt a few lessons and certain players cop the heat they deserve. I’m still a big believer in us this year.

Edit: Got my Cerra games mixed up - had a shocker against Swans, so 2 out of his last 3.

 

[F_therest]

Charlie Curnow is the prime example here. He needs to learn a proper routine. Stop. Breathe. Relax. Then take the same number of steps and kick through the ball the same way every time. Practice the exact same routine over and over and over until you can do it in your sleep. There's no excuse for guy with his talent to put off the hard work of learning how to kick goals properly. McKay did it. Casboult did it. Cripps did it. It can be learned, but you have to take it seriously. I'm really tired of watching blow easy shots because he has no rhythm or routine to his kicking at goal.

Always heart in mouth stuff with Charlie when he takes a mark i50 on the left side of the field and instead of taking his time for a set shot he IMMEDIATELY wheels around and snaps.

To his credit he usually kicks it.

Tough one with Charlie, he's 'micurial' and plays on instinct which helps make him so good, but can also be a hindrance.

 

[Wickzki]

In: Weitering, Martin, Owies

Out: Honey, Durdin, Newnes

B: Plowman - Weitering - Newman
HB: Saad - Young - Docherty
C: O'Brien - Cripps - Hewett
HF: Fisher - Curnow - Martin
F: Silvagni - McKay - Owies
R: De Koning - Cerra - Walsh
IC: Cottrell - Kennedy - Motlop - Kemp

Medical Sub: Newnes

Ideally, I would prefer to drop Plowman. However, the Eagles realistically present too many potential matchup headaches without him. I wouldn't drop Kemp either as we need a defender off the bench.

We haven't gotten enough from our small forwards lately. Into the side comes Owies and Martin. I believe both are upgrades on Durdin and Honey who can go back to the VFL, tick their boxes and re-earn their senior positions.

Newnes comes out of the side but is the medical sub. I subscribe to the theory that you can't carry all three of O'Brien, Cottrell, and Newnes in the one team for too long. There will - and have been - weeks where you have to make do with all three. However, as we edge closer to September I'd ideally like us to play with two of them.

Though I was - am - angry with Cerra's performance it cannot be lost that he did it in his first game back from a hamstring injury. In an ideal world, he would have come back via the VFL team to find some touch first. I have confidence that now that he's gotten that first game post-injury under his belt that he'll pick up his performance level moving forward.

I would like to find a role for Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

to get included into the side. Unfortunately, I just cannot find a spot for him. We already have Kennedy and Hewett who can play at above the level required on the inside who I have listed in the 22 elsewhere (as well as others). Dow's lack of versatility really hurts him.

 

[Calcium]

Good call from your mate. I reckon they might keep Kemp in for height, not sure who Weits will replace.

maybe Plowman?

 

[katmanblue]

Voss isn't singling out a player or few, it is directed at the team as a whole. That statement needs to go hand in hand with "we didn't respect their pressure"

Credit to the Saints for their pressure, but it was always going to be the response after a couple of poor weeks. Voss's frustration was about overusing the ball around the contest and not showing enough composure with the ball in general play and or taking heat out of the game by playing better tempo to ensure we moved the ball safely out on the back half, then driving it forward and allowing us to setup better defensively.

Sometimes you have to play wet weather footy to force the contests in the oppositions defensive half which allows you to setup better behind the ball.

Tactically, we were also beaten. The move of Cotts to Hill did its job to quell their drive somewhat but it also hurt us by losing a 2 way runner from deep back to deep forward, we lost link. A better move, would have been to send Newnes to Hill and play Cotts as a running HB. Although our small forwards did a poor job with Sinclair

Two or three of our forwards should have been playing higher, so our mids had shorter targets or a stronger hand with long with Harry and Charlie having space to lead into. After Howard went off, we never truly exploited the Battle on Harry matchup, where the forward line should have been cleared out. Even if they they wanted the +1, one of our forwards could have played 10-15 metres in front of the +1, then either used that player as a target if he wasn't matched up

Apart from that, there is absolutely no excuse for poor kicking at goals. Whether you are having a traditional set shot, or bending it round the corner, I just don't get why players don't take the full 30 seconds to compose themselves

Reinforcements coming. Weitering is our most vital cog missing at the moment. People say that losing Weitering doesn't help our scoring, but since his loss, we have struggled to kick more than 80 points, even in winning, yet prior to that, we have kicked 90+ on 7 occasions. Like the Demons losing May, you condense/add more numbers behind the ball due to being undersized and HB's and wingers are no longer in aggressive attacking positions. Add to that Pitto and other cogs that are better/important to our game

10 - 5 is a great base and I believe we will win at least 4 more games to secure a final's berth, beyond that, it will come down to who has the healthier list on the park

Hard for our small forwards to get further up the ground when they're only playing about 65% gametime each. Their fitness simply isn't there.

Edit: yet. They are all very young. Need more preseasons.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BlueBlood15]

In: Weitering, Owies and Stocker
Out: Honey, Kemp and Newnes

Weitering walks back in. One of Kemp or Plowman probably falls out. Plowman, while average last week, has some runs on the board this season and is a bit more flexible than Kemp. He may need to play on Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

27

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

.

Honey hasn’t made the most of his opportunity over the last two weeks. Owies has runs on the board and should be ready to return.

Newnes maybe a bit stiff but I would rather play Stocker at half back given he’s trained there for a few years and is much more familiar with the role. In reasonably good VFL form. I’m sticking with LOB and Cotts on the wing for now.

Sounds like Pittonet is a good chance to return via the VFL this coming week with an eye to a return vs Geelong.

 

[Calcium]

Always heart in mouth stuff with Charlie when he takes a mark i50 on the left side of the field and instead of taking his time for a set shot he IMMEDIATELY wheels around and snaps.

To his credit he usually kicks it.

Tough one with Charlie, he's 'micurial' and plays on instinct which helps make him so good, but can also be a hindrance.

Crazy that he is second in the Coleman but he has been somewhat hot and cold in games. Imagine when he gets some consistency in his game going. Lots of upside I rkn

 

[rp84]

Probably going over for this but getting bad vibes with most of their premiership players back.

Need a good win to calm my nerves, otherwise the Margaret River Chardonnay and cabs will need to do it for me.

 

[SammaGilberto]

8 years since we last beat Weags, not one player from that 22 still playing for us, only three playing AFL footy still. (2E, Robbo, Cas). Think it's time to beat them

 

[T2B_]

Danger game for sure. The side that beat Freo turns up, no problem.

The St Kilda variant.... could very well lose.

 

[CJMB]

8 years since we last beat Weags, not one player from that 22 still playing for us, only three playing AFL footy still. (2E, Robbo, Cas). Think it's time to beat them

Seems crazy, had to look it up on afl tables… yep. We’ve only played them once each year, but rd 6 2014 appears to be the last time we beat them.

 

[F_therest]

Hard for our small forwards to get further up the ground when they're only playing about 65% gametime each. Their fitness simply isn't there.

Edit: yet. They are all very young. Need more preseasons.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

The small forwards we have look really promising but are all young and inexperienced.

Because of that, possibly a bit of a weakness in our team compared to the other top teams if we want to win a premiership in the near future. Part of the reason I'm happy to have Owies and maybe even Martin still play...some older guys. Rather than all 3 of Durdin/Motlop/Honey playing.

 

[Coona Blues]

Yeo hamstring.

 

[jimsta10]

Nic Nat will be sore next week...





hopefully

 

[LanceRomance]

Always heart in mouth stuff with Charlie when he takes a mark i50 on the left side of the field and instead of taking his time for a set shot he IMMEDIATELY wheels around and snaps.

To his credit he usually kicks it.

Tough one with Charlie, he's 'micurial' and plays on instinct which helps make him so good, but can also be a hindrance.

Remember when Setanta would get it in front of goal and then enter another dimension before kicking a point?

 

[JustaBattler]

Interesting that the focus is on our young or lesser players. I thought our ‘star’ players were far more disappointing than many our lower tier players. They were terrible. A few of the lesser lights were keeping us within range imo. Cotts is the best of the Newnes, LOB, Cotts trio. I think he’ll make a career with us now.

Cerra has had two shockers in a row now (ignoring the Tigers). That’s concerning. He’s more of the same of what we already have - strong body, lacks explosiveness and speed.. and geez we get exposed for that sometimes.

I’d be keeping all of Durds, Honey and Motlop and looking to lose Newnes and LOB or Plow.

I’m going to keep focusing on Harry until he changes his ways. Weakest player of his size I’ve ever seen in the marking contest. His efforts to win frees are embarrassing and distract him from being the dominant player he could be.

Voss needs to face scrutiny too … completely out-coached. Stubborn too.

Every cloud: we were completely outplayed, barely fired a shot, and yet were within reach and had more scoring shots. Astounding.

Big game. Hope the coach learnt a few lessons and certain players cop the heat they deserve. I’m still a big believer in us this year.

In none of the losses against Richmond/Collingwood and now Saints - was the side 'out of the game' till the end and - despite early injury/missing players/poor form -

So what kind of 'scrutiny' to you wish to place on Voss /his coaches exactly?

The coaches don't miss sitters from 15 meters out, the coaches don't fumble ground balls, the coaches don't instruct Plowman to instruct Lob to kick it to the opposition for a center of field turnover and goal against the run of play the coaches don't ask Charlie to miss 4 easy shots....or Harry to flop around like a jelly fish, the coaches don't ask Lob or Cottrell to dirty their sacks when they see a bloke with ball in hand running at them..

all the coaches can do is put together a game plan and structure for teh team to follow - and populate the team with teh best players they have available to play thier roles

We've got #1 defender, ruck, intercept defender(s), all out of the side -- that is HALF the SPINE
We are playing our preferred third tall forward as a ruckman and the games best extractor as a spare ruckman - all year...

The coaches and players for the most part have performed very well - but there is only so much missing class any team can handle before they become captive to the worst performances on ground from the bottom tier of players on the ground.

It is a development year and also another year where a few players are cleaned out Voss has given them a year to show what they've got or not.

 

[SurreyBlue]

And if you go back and look at Cerra's games playing for Fremantle a remarkably more impressive block of games than Dow hasn't even come close to putting together.

Adam Cerra and Paddy Dow AFL Stats Comparison

View attachment 1438292

Irrelevant conversation.
The simple fact is Cerra needs to start earning his money.
IMO - he lacks intensity, doesn’t run defensively and isn’t displaying the clean skills we expected.