List Mgmt. 2022 Trade & List Management Thread

[King Corey]

Isn't it funny how things change, two years ago you'd snap up De Goey and Ahern for McCartin and laugh your head off.

Is this Paddy McCartin's "how's the turntables" moment then?

 

[Le Grille]

Sorry, this doesn't really mean anything to me. Comben has been on the list for 3 years and weighs 84kg. Edwards turns 20 in November and he is 85kg, these guys are around 15kg away from being able to hold up physically at AFL level. I do hope Clarkson boosts "standard setting" but he isn't a miracle man, he didn't perform miracles with the Hawks young players. If those two make it, I am guessing they will need a year to two in order for a half decent program to get results.

If he and the club thinks those two are worth developing then awesome. But we need something better than what we have going forward for next year and we need there to be some kind of baseline that a player needs to hit and we just aren't gifting games regardless of standard. This isn't just about the second key forward, we are harming Larkey's development forcing him to compete against 2-3 defenders because nobody else is a threat.

You could switch that entire argument to some clapped out player.

Ultimately the best example is doing. If these players are cooked enough to retire I think you won’t see them busting arse across games and training.

I’d sooner bring in a player who has built a tank/strength and get 100% from them.

For an example acres can run and run and can show that to the current list plus he’s young enough not only to provide a reasonable length of a prime.

In terms of a fwd if we had to go an older type id sooner Gunston than Kennedy by a country mile but even then id prefer someone younger.

In terms of Kennedy himself he’s cooked I don’t think you’d get much from him on field in terms of standard setting.

And to you other point if you donot think the coaching staff a Clarko constructs won’t be more demanding than previous regimes id say youd be terribly misTaken.

 

[William Caresser]

The thing about Wardlaw is that he has a lot of power, acceleration and speed. It means you're getting a player who can play different positions - won't be a one-paced inside mid who can't start and finish his career in other roles.

The hamstring injuries are annoying but that's all. He's going to be a very good, quick player.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

pick swap with GC after Rankine trade..

OUT: 1, 55, 66

IN: 5. 7, 23, 32

Throw the other PP's in and we're cooking with gas for highly touted draftees and some picks to go after Logue, Acres, etc..

I reckon they'd hold 23 there to go to the draft with 1, 23, 43 onwards but we may be able to extract 32 and 33 which would be fairer points wise. I think like last year they'll be drafting the bare minimum.

 

[hilly]

I hope we don't say anything in terms of Wardlaw. Ideally a club is desperate to land him and offers up plenty.

5 and 7 for pick 1 isn't cutting it either.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[rickety]

Yeah it's definitely good to see he's got his tank fitness up to such a high level. So that's the good. The not so good is his ball drop and lack of kicking penetration. Clarko didn't have too many poor-ball-dropping, non-penetrating kicks in his sides at Hawthorn.

Idk as I've not really studied his kicking technique. Though to counter your points he often tries the pin point pass inside, and is hit and miss with them. He's certainly hit a few, but the miss is just a lot more noticeable, imo. Iirc he's (Taylor) DE is around 66%, not sure what his kicking efficiency is in comparison. I'm a fan, but agree his kicking, or rather accuracy, could do with a lift.
Just on a tangent, we do have some different techniques. Zurhaar has his own, LDU seems to stoop over his kicks, Lmac is the worst lefty of all time .... Was it Rod Austin at carltons that used to kick the bottom end of the ball? The wonderfully gifted P. Krakouer almost placed the pill on his foot.

 

[Psicosis]

Id swap pick 1 for 5 & 7 in a heart beat. We don’t need more midfielders.

The counter to that is, we trade pick 1 and then this happens:

BL Pick 1 - Ashcroft (MID)
GC Pick 2 - Wardlaw (MID)
WC Pick 3 - Sheezel (HF/MID)
GWS Pick 4 - Tsatas (MID)
ESS Pick 5 - Cadman (KPF)

Then you end up with the best KPF is gone, the best KPD is available, but is he #6 on our draft board? If not, then we reach for need, which I don't think we should do. The other top prospects after the 5 above are all mids - Clark, Mackenzie, Phillipou, Gibney.

Could end up that we reach for a KPD that we don't find best available and end up with another midfielder, or 2 mids (if we go best available). Regardless, you miss the top 4 cream and still end up with another mid.

 

[showusyacunningt]

He's one of the best one-on-one defenders in the league. He should be priority #1.

Absolutely. Athletic enough to play on those dynamic medium sized types as well as talls. McKay and he would be an elite 1-2 for the rest of the decade.

 

[roos_tt29]

Absolutely. Athletic enough to play on those dynamic medium sized types as well as talls. McKay and he would be an elite 1-2 for the rest of the decade.

Yep I'd be happy with a defensive lineup of McKay, Logue, Corr and Dawson.

I reckon we get another 50 games into Dawson and he can rotate with Logue where required.

 

[GS WARRIORS]

Spoiler: ask and ye shall receive

	1	5	7
2021	JHF	Mac Andrew	Josh Ward
2020	Ugle-Hagan	Braeden Campbell	Elijah Hollands
2019	Matt Rowell	Fischer McAsey	Hayden Young
2018	Sam Walsh	Connor Rozee	Bailey Smith
2017	Cameron Rayner	Adam Cerra	Hunter Clark
2016	Andy McGrath	Will Setterfield	Jack Scrimshaw
2015	Jacob Weitering	Darcy Parish	Jacob Hopper
2014	Paddy McCartin	Jordan De Goey	Paul Ahern
2013	Tom Boyd	Kade Kolodjashnij	James Aish
2012	Lachie Whitfield	Jake Stringer	Ollie Wines
2011	Jonathon Patton	Matt Buntine	Nick Haynes
2010	David Swallow	Jared Polec	Josh Caddy
2009	Tom Scully	Ben Cunnington	Brad Sheppard
2008	Jack Watts	Michael Hurley	Daniel Rich
2007	Matthew Kreuzer	Jarrad Grant	Rhys Palmer
2006	Bryce Gibbs	Travis Boak	Joel Selwood
2005	Marc Murphy	Scott Pendlebury	Paddy Ryder
2004	Brett Deledio	Lance Franklin	Jordan Lewis

pretty confident the 5s and 7s have it over the 1s, particularly the further you go back.

Great work. Thanks for doing this.

It's not as simple as that though. Most clubs would have taken Trac at 1 in 2014 and you take him over 5&7. Same with LDU in 2017. There's some average no 1's in there and some decent 2/3's. Kelly in 2013/Coniglio in 2011 better than the 5/7 in those years.

I think you need to take out F&S and academy picks as they couldn't of been selected.

 

[Tas]

pick swap with GC after Rankine trade..

OUT: 1, 55, 66

IN: 5. 7, 23, 32

Throw the other PP's in and we're cooking with gas for highly touted draftees and some picks to go after Logue, Acres, etc..

You are missing their first born in the trade.

 

[nelroo]

Pick #1 for Ben King and a top 10 pick back.

Would we consider it?

Would they?

I would but doubt they would. Why would they give us a pick back. I don’t think we’d be getting a gun like King for a pick down grade.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

The counter to that is, we trade pick 1 and then this happens:

BL Pick 1 - Ashcroft (MID)
GC Pick 2 - Wardlaw (MID)
WC Pick 3 - Sheezel (HF/MID)
GWS Pick 4 - Tsatas (MID)
ESS Pick 5 - Cadman (KPF)

Then you end up with the best KPF is gone, the best KPD is available, but is he #6 on our draft board? If not, then we reach for need, which I don't think we should do. The other top prospects after the 5 above are all mids - Clark, Mackenzie, Phillipou, Gibney.

Could end up that we reach for a KPD that we don't find best available and end up with another midfielder, or 2 mids (if we go best available). Regardless, you miss the top 4 cream and still end up with another mid.

I'm still not as easily convinced as others that we need to trade pick 1. Wardlaw or Sheezel would be unreal. And I think having too many young elite midfielders is a good problem to have.

 

[Shermanator]

You are missing their first born in the trade.

Good point - if they want pick 1 they can throw in their first born also.. stuff it.. and their second born too..

 

[JGreezy]

Unless someone miraculously falls into our lap, year 1 is going to be about getting some experienced players in, building a culture, setting the structure and not being the worst team in the history of the modern AFL.

If we add Hill, Acres, Shiels, maybe Logue or Gunston and the number 1 pick then that is a good result.

Those guys push out the bottom of the list and we've maybe got a team that can run out games and be competitive. They might not be great AFL players but they are AFL players. Acouple of them are even good AFL players.

Gun players probably aren't going to go to a 2 win team to be the saviours.

 

[King Corey]

I would but doubt they would. Why would they give us a pick back. I don’t think we’d be getting a gun like King for a pick down grade.

It would required him to say he's off at the end of this deal. Then they'd have a situation of paying a bloke to rehab into next season who's going to pull up stumps a year and a half later potentially to walk to a club who is cutthroat enough to use the PSD.

In that case - Ben King's management say he wants to go to North, we offer pick #1 for him and pick #5, I think they'd have to look at it.

Since there is nothing tying him to us though it's just a needless hypothetical.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Saints would want us to add to pick 1 for King.

 

[7577969923]

Good point - if they want pick 1 they can throw in their first born also.. stuff it.. and their second born too..

A couple of Meter Maids as well!

 

[Tas]

You could switch that entire argument to some clapped out player.

Wut?

Ultimately the best example is doing. If these players are cooked enough to retire I think you won’t see them busting arse across games and training.

"My knee is a big reason for retiring. I think my drive to play is still there, but I'm realistic my body is not going to be able to take me to another season," he said.

He still wants to play, he doesn't have confidence in his knee and I think having to fly long distances every second week probably makes it hard for recovery. Him struggling though is 15 games this year, we only got 1 game from Comben and Edwards combined this year.

I’d sooner bring in a player who has built a tank/strength and get 100% from them.

Who? They don't exist mate, that is the problem. We had options in prior years and sat with our thumb up our arse. He isn't exactly my preferred choice either.

For an example acres can run and run and can show that to the current list plus he’s young enough not only to provide a reasonable length of a prime.

Acres? He is a midfielder.

In terms of a fwd if we had to go an older type id sooner Gunston than Kennedy by a country mile but even then id prefer someone younger.

He wants to win another flag, he aint coming to us.

In terms of Kennedy himself he’s cooked I don’t think you’d get much from him on field in terms of standard setting.

I used him as an example of a player when someone asked who as a free agent. Clarko might have someone else in mind, it doesn't necessarily need to be a free agent, he might actually chase a quality key forward depending on what kind of assistance we get. I'm saying worst case scenario, I'd rather have Kennedy playing for us in some kind of managed role than rely on two blokes with schoolboy physiques who only managed 1 game this year combined. We need something right now to help out. I'd take half or part of a year than nothing.

And to you other point if you donot think the coaching staff a Clarko constructs won’t be more demanding than previous regimes id say youd be terribly misTaken.

I don't know what that means, or exactly how it translates to on-field performance next year. This Larkey as the only forward shitshow needs to end this year unless we want more spoons for the cupboard.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

The counter to that is, we trade pick 1 and then this happens:

BL Pick 1 - Ashcroft (MID)
GC Pick 2 - Wardlaw (MID)
WC Pick 3 - Sheezel (HF/MID)
GWS Pick 4 - Tsatas (MID)
ESS Pick 5 - Cadman (KPF)

Then you end up with the best KPF is gone, the best KPD is available, but is he #6 on our draft board? If not, then we reach for need, which I don't think we should do. The other top prospects after the 5 above are all mids - Clark, Mackenzie, Phillipou, Gibney.

Could end up that we reach for a KPD that we don't find best available and end up with another midfielder, or 2 mids (if we go best available). Regardless, you miss the top 4 cream and still end up with another mid.

The talk is Mackenzie doesn’t go past Essendon, so potentially you’ve got Cadman on the board.

If we were going to trade 1 it’s GWS that will have the ammo.

 

[the flying ham]

Wut?



"My knee is a big reason for retiring. I think my drive to play is still there, but I'm realistic my body is not going to be able to take me to another season," he said.

He still wants to play, he doesn't have confidence in his knee and I think having to fly long distances every second week probably makes it hard for recovery. Him struggling though is 15 games this year, we only got 1 game from Comben and Edwards combined this year.



Who? They don't exist mate, that is the problem. We had options in prior years and sat with our thumb up our arse. He isn't exactly my preferred choice either.



Acres? He is a midfielder.




He wants to win another flag, he aint coming to us.




I used him as an example of a player when someone asked who as a free agent. Clarko might have someone else in mind, it doesn't necessarily need to be a free agent, he might actually chase a quality key forward depending on what kind of assistance we get. I'm saying worst case scenario, I'd rather have Kennedy playing for us in some kind of managed role than rely on two blokes with schoolboy physiques who only managed 1 game this year combined. We need something right now to help out. I'd take half or part of a year than nothing.



I don't know what that means, or exactly how it translates to on-field performance next year. This Larkey as the only forward shitshow needs to end this year unless we want more spoons for the cupboard.

No one disagrees that Larkey one out is a debacle, but Kennedy isn't realistic. At all.

 

[Psicosis]

I know it might not be that popular with some, but I love the idea of Gunston. It would mean that we park the 2 rucks strategy (as I would insist on playing Chom as well), but I think it makes us a better side.

HF - Zurhaar - Comben - JHF
FF - Gunston - Larkey - Curtis

 

[Tas]

No one disagrees that Larkey one out is a debacle, but Kennedy isn't realistic. At all.

I don't want to hear what people don't like. I am saying this is the worst case scenario, if you can do better than great but if you can't you are saying go back to just Larkey. We simply can't do this. We must try anything instead of nothing. We have to stop being a do-nothing club.

 

[the flying ham]

I don't want to hear what people don't like. I am saying this is the worst case scenario, if you can do better than great but if you can't you are saying go back to just Larkey. We simply can't do this. We must try anything instead of nothing. We have to stop being a do-nothing club.

Okay, you said a free agent kpf, then provided Kennedy. WA born and bred, and retired. This isn't worst case, it simply won't happen. There isn't a glut of options, particularly ones that come free. If you want a FA KPF, great, there just aren't many. For instance the one example you provided is retired. Cupboard = bare. I'm not saying go back to just Larkey, I've been banging the drum on a 2nd KPF for years. I've actually even suggested some to trade for. Kennedy isn't a chance mate

 

[Tas]

Okay, you said a free agent kpf, then provided Kennedy. WA born and bred, and retired. This isn't worst case, it simply won't happen. There isn't a glut of options, particularly ones that come free. If you want a FA KPF, great, there just aren't many. For instance the one example you provided is retired. Cupboard = bare. I'm not saying go back to just Larkey, I've been banging the drum on a 2nd KPF for years. I've actually even suggested some to trade for. Kennedy isn't a chance mate

I used free agency... because it is free and our list managers think it has been a great strategy to piss away our second round picks in back to back spoon years so we don't really have any currency to get something better than free right at the moment.

All I am hearing from you is we are going with Larkey alone for 2023 and I am saying that isn't acceptable. I'd rather resurrect Kennedy's dead corpse than go into next year with just Larkey. We can't allow it to happen so shit or get off the toilet. We can't just fart arse around like we have and put an uncompetitive list on the table for members to watch get annihilated.