List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

[St Kilda Death]

Jesus wept, people are so impressed with a few beach biceps. Does anyone one here with any actual knowledge know how much the kid benches or how he goes in the time trails etc ?. If he‘s getting smashed in the gym by the dragons players then I’d be worried.

I hired a removals guy once and he was a skinny little bloke with chicken legs and arms even smaller. I watched in amazement as he carried out a couple of sizeable full pots one on each hand, even more so when I saw his chest scar from heart surgery.

Kade Simpson was a good player.

 

[jh38]

Back on Bytel. To me he has the ability to be an AFL footballer, was just unlucky this season.
When we were up and about early we had few injuries and Windy and Naz were the youngsters getting blooded, the inside mid jobs were Steele, Crouch and to a lesser extent Seb, all were in fine form.
We started to get injuries and he was up but unluckily got injured. Really only came back fair late in the season
Reckon he can be a part of the team and hope he stays.

100%. He's a good player, just needs a consistent run at things rather than just pinch hitting games here and there.

 

[The Punter]

Surely the question on Bytel is whether he wants to accept a contract from St Kilda, because surely we are offering him one, even if it is for one year.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Jesus wept, people are so impressed with a few beach biceps. Does anyone one here with any actual knowledge know how much the kid benches or how he goes in the time trails etc ?. If he‘s getting smashed in the gym by the dragons players then I’d be worried.

I hired a removals guy once and he was a skinny little bloke with chicken legs and arms even smaller. I watched in amazement as he carried out a couple of sizeable full pots one on each hand, even more so when I saw his chest scar from heart surgery.

Spot on.

Hunts doesn't seem to have any issues breaking tackles or making a tackle stick.

 

[luca77]

I wasn't suggesting its any better on here

I will.
Or at least, the dozen or so people on here I don't have on ignore aren't that bad.

 

[gringo2011]

Bytel never did enough to deserve a game so I'm not sure what the issue is.

Maybe in the last round would should have played him but outside of that he was just average at best at VFL level.

Windhager and Owens went past him in their first year

Hanners did no more. Hill was kept in for months when he was a liability. If you want to piss off your fringe players that's pretty much the model. Hunter Clark did SFA as well.

JB was a bit unlucky that he wasn't ready to go when Steele went down but when we were really struggling we tried to play it safe and still lost. The player management under Ratts seems all over the shop from giving games to players like Hind and Parker and culling them the next moment to leaving kids stagnating in reserves with out hope of a call up.

I thought Bytel had played well when he got Hanners in besides him because it spread the load. I feel like we went the safe option over the future and now lose the future and the safe option. We've kept him on for years then just let him walk once he shows a bit. Going and paying up for Tanner Bruhn who we hope ends up being like Bytel seems like a step backwards seeing as we've run Bytel's value down to about zero.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Where there is saints fans..
You will find Dribble.

Are we talking Drivel or Dribble, or is Dribble the new Drivel, just like people now say "What's up Dog"?

 

[gringo2011]

Needs to be a mid. Not accountable at all as a defender and way slower than brad hill without the creative kicking ability.

Clark has creativity in his kicking, just has an issue with pace and chase. He's as slow as treacle and doesn't like running in defence. He almost needs to play high half forward or get fit enough to play as an inside extractor. That probably requires some bulking. He's getting a lot of contact injuries because he goes in hard but doesn't have that bullocking frame yet.

If he could fill out a bit he could definitely play on ball or at least around the ball. His big challenge is to get fit enough IMO. I'd tell him he's behind others and playing VFL if he doesn't get fit in the off season. Have him come back ready to tear strips off.

 

[phantom13]

Spot on.

Hunts doesn't seem to have any issues breaking tackles or making a tackle stick.

Hi physique really doesnt matter. Pendles had noodle arms for a while and now is positively jacked.

Hunters evasiveness and core strength are unreal. I said it previously but as his peak he might have been the best kick under pressure in our side, maybe the AFL.

Trading him now would be such a stupid move. Him and Coff to have big pre seasons and hit 2024 with venom for me.

 

[phantom13]

Clark has creativity in his kicking, just has an issue with pace and chase. He's as slow as treacle and doesn't like running in defence. He almost needs to play high half forward or get fit enough to play as an inside extractor. That probably requires some bulking. He's getting a lot of contact injuries because he goes in hard but doesn't have that bullocking frame yet.

If he could fill out a bit he could definitely play on ball or at least around the ball. His big challenge is to get fit enough IMO. I'd tell him he's behind others and playing VFL if he doesn't get fit in the off season. Have him come back ready to tear strips off.

Havent his last two contact injuries been freak facial ones?

Not sure bulking up will help that.

 

[luca77]

Hanners did no more. Hill was kept in for months when he was a liability. If you want to piss off your fringe players that's pretty much the model. Hunter Clark did SFA as well.

JB was a bit unlucky that he wasn't ready to go when Steele went down but when we were really struggling we tried to play it safe and still lost. The player management under Ratts seems all over the shop from giving games to players like Hind and Parker and culling them the next moment to leaving kids stagnating in reserves with out hope of a call up.

I thought Bytel had played well when he got Hanners in besides him because it spread the load. I feel like we went the safe option over the future and now lose the future and the safe option. We've kept him on for years then just let him walk once he shows a bit. Going and paying up for Tanner Bruhn who we hope ends up being like Bytel seems like a step backwards seeing as we've run Bytel's value down to about zero.

Sorry Gringo, but I really don't think this Saints midfield has been a hard one to break into.
The new boys got in from day one, and Byrnes has been in and out without doing much at all.

Any saints mids who weren't given a crack were either desperately unlucky with the timing of their form/injury (not really the club's fault) or just didn't do enough either on match day or during the week. We don't really have visibility of their training, attitude, ability to follow instructions e.t.c. I'm still hopeful that Bytel sticks around - he's a good preseason away from having a good crack at it. I just don't think our non-selection of him has been that much of a disgrace.

Every team has some good players in the 2s not getting a go for this reason or that, and their supporters probably say much the same things about those players. Sometimes it can't be helped.

 

[bird_man]

Hanners did no more. Hill was kept in for months when he was a liability. If you want to piss off your fringe players that's pretty much the model. Hunter Clark did SFA as well.

JB was a bit unlucky that he wasn't ready to go when Steele went down but when we were really struggling we tried to play it safe and still lost. The player management under Ratts seems all over the shop from giving games to players like Hind and Parker and culling them the next moment to leaving kids stagnating in reserves with out hope of a call up.

I thought Bytel had played well when he got Hanners in besides him because it spread the load. I feel like we went the safe option over the future and now lose the future and the safe option. We've kept him on for years then just let him walk once he shows a bit. Going and paying up for Tanner Bruhn who we hope ends up being like Bytel seems like a step backwards seeing as we've run Bytel's value down to about zero.

Can't imagine Bytel taking Hills spot on a back flank or wing?

Hanners came in when we needed a lift and showed that despite his body he was clearly still up to the level, getting numbers at AFL level that Bytel has only been able to produce at VFL level and never got close to at the top grade.

It's not as though Ratten doesn't play the kids. In 2020 he backed in the youngest backline in the comp. This year he backed all our draftees.

You need to earn your spot to some degree.

Bytel was very fortunate to be backed as much as he was last year without delivering a lot.

But there comes a time when you need to start earning your spot and at 22 now he just didn't do it this year.

 

[BrutThough]

Hanners did no more. Hill was kept in for months when he was a liability. If you want to piss off your fringe players that's pretty much the model. Hunter Clark did SFA as well.

JB was a bit unlucky that he wasn't ready to go when Steele went down but when we were really struggling we tried to play it safe and still lost. The player management under Ratts seems all over the shop from giving games to players like Hind and Parker and culling them the next moment to leaving kids stagnating in reserves with out hope of a call up.

I thought Bytel had played well when he got Hanners in besides him because it spread the load. I feel like we went the safe option over the future and now lose the future and the safe option. We've kept him on for years then just let him walk once he shows a bit. Going and paying up for Tanner Bruhn who we hope ends up being like Bytel seems like a step backwards seeing as we've run Bytel's value down to about zero.

First off, Hill was never a liability. Thats some hyperbolic crap.

Secondly, Hind and Parker were out of the side when they left. Hind played a string of games with a very poor goal return and was dropped in favour of Lonie. He was also offered a contract but wanted to go to Essendon, so thats doesn't equate to 'culling' him. And Parker played only 2 games the year he was delisted and he was below average in them, putting him 5th in line of our small forwards with Higgins about to join. So, I don't know what was all over the place about his delistment given he wasn't getting a game.

Also, why would we be hoping Bruhn end up being like Bytel when Bruhn is already ahead despite being two years younger? Bytel was either injured or putting up very average VFL numbers until the last 2-3 weeks. By then, others had overtaken him in the pecking order and the season was done. We ask for players to be selected on form and unfortunately for Bytel, him being a forum favourite doesn't make up for his lack of form this year.

 

[phantom13]

Sorry Gringo, but I really don't think this Saints midfield has been a hard one to break into.
The new boys got in from day one, and Byrnes has been in and out without doing much at all.

Any saints mids who weren't given a crack were either desperately unlucky with the timing of their form/injury (not really the club's fault) or just didn't do enough either on match day or during the week. We don't really have visibility of their training, attitude, ability to follow instructions e.t.c. I'm still hopeful that Bytel sticks around - he's a good preseason away from having a good crack at it. I just don't think our non-selection of him has been that much of a disgrace.

Every team has some good players in the 2s not getting a go for this reason or that, and their supporters probably say much the same things about those players. Sometimes it can't be helped.

I cant recall the timing but Jones back after his break (clearly still down on form) was an odd choice.

We seem to have a tonne of depth through the midfield and very little top end class.

Having said all that it does seem Bytel is way down the pecking order, probably a host of reasons for it.

 

[phantom13]

First off, Hill was never a liability. Thats some hyperbolic crap.

Defensively hes always been a liability and in games where he wasnt getting the ball he doesnt offer much else.

 

[gringo2011]

So you think Battle is a top 10 player at the club and Dougal is no good, yeah?

I've never said Dougal is "no good", I've said that he's the weak link in our tall defensive stocks. He's the best of his type we have but not as good as he could be and replaceable. Battle had an unbelievable year. Dougal not so much.

 

[gringo2011]

Havent his last two contact injuries been freak facial ones?

Not sure bulking up will help that.

If you have some bulk you can turn a shoulder into them or turn your body into them and they'll think before going in. That said he probably has to learn some technique other than putting his head in first. I know when you're a bit more solid you feel more confident throwing your own body in though.

 

[Saints43]

I've never said Dougal is "no good", I've said that he's the weak link in our tall defensive stocks. He's the best of his type we have but not as good as he could be and replaceable. Battle had an unbelievable year. Dougal not so much.

Dougal is a mighty two inches taller than Battle. And played just 25 more career games.
Howard plays on the best forward just about every week and Battle would usually play on the third best taller player, Wilkie taking the second.
How many bags did the biggest and best forwards kick on Howard this year? And, do you think that would have been the case if Battle had stood them? I actually reckon you're marking Howard down for being the better player who has greater responsibilities in the team.

 

[70s sainter]

I've never said Dougal is "no good", I've said that he's the weak link in our tall defensive stocks. He's the best of his type we have but not as good as he could be and replaceable. Battle had an unbelievable year. Dougal not so much.

He does one or two frustrating things per game that drives me nuts . Eg when he fresh air punched the ball then tried to pretend he touched it because he was embarrassed. He also has one of those faces but you’re right he’s the best we have and hopefully works on his game .

 

[Saintbloke]

I cant recall the timing but Jones back after his break (clearly still down on form) was an odd choice.

We seem to have a tonne of depth through the midfield and very little top end class.

Having said all that it does seem Bytel is way down the pecking order, probably a host of reasons for it.

Regardless of what the reasons are, any player who has trouble breaking into the seniors, or has been in and out of the seniors after a few seasons, probably has had their chance and need to be moved on.

 

[gringo2011]

Defensively hes always been a liability and in games where he wasnt getting the ball he doesnt offer much else.

Hill is a better player than we are all making out, defence was never something that was a strength for him. He only ended up there to make use of him because we'd run his confidence and usefulness right down. He was the wrong player for what we wanted. Richo like to run and gun from defence and Hill was that guy that ran along side to accept the handball and could put the burners on and evade three tacklers. He would have been ideal.

When we sacked Richo, Ratts went to a chip mark game plan with a hold and wait and have guys move into space. Pretty much made Hill redundant as an outside runner. Off HBF he was able to gather ball and it was one area where we preferred to run the ball out until we could get a safe kick away to players ahead of the ball.

The issue is that a new coach would probably love a Hill running up the ground using his pace and ability to move out into the open for a handball receive. Somehow Ratts is going to have to reinvent the game plan and hopefully it uses fast slingshot ball movement like every other current side is doing to exploit the stand rule and other AFL directives to speed up the game.

I really hope that DeGoey isn't Lethlean types wanting a big story to hide from their footy failures at the cost of a player that we'll probably have to give away cheap and pay part of his salary only to bring in another $900k player that we don't really have a huge gaping hole on our list for. We probably should have planned around a new coach but we didn't and now we hope the next guy wants a DeGoey over a Hill or that Ratts can use him.

Unless Ratts reinvents himself I'm not sure it's going be a magic boost up the ladder.

 

[phantom13]

Regardless of what the reasons are, any player who has trouble breaking into the seniors, or has been in and out of the seniors after a few seasons, probably has had their chance and need to be moved on.

I seriously doubt we would be moving Bytel on given retirement and list space. If anything Bytel might want to go in which cause it would be hard to argue against it.

 

[gringo2011]

Dougal is a mighty two inches taller than Battle. And played just 25 more career games.
Howard plays on the best forward just about every week and Battle would usually play on the third best taller player, Wilkie taking the second.
How many bags did the biggest and best forwards kick on Howard this year? And, do you think that would have been the case if Battle had stood them? I actually reckon you're marking Howard down for being the better player who has greater responsibilities in the team.

Everything you say is correct but I think Howard is the weakest link in our tall stocks. I personally wouldn't play 4 tall defenders so if we bring in a gorilla stopper, I'm moving Howard out and keeping Battle and Wilkie as those 2nd and 3rd tall defenders. Howard is undeniably our current best option for his role but I don't think he's irreplaceable if a better KPB came in.

I'd look at making him a Rory Lobb type ruck/forward if we could find another tall defender with a bit more presence.

 

[phantom13]

Hill is a better player than we are all making out, defence was never something that was a strength for him. He only ended up there to make use of him because we'd run his confidence and usefulness right down. He was the wrong player for what we wanted. Richo like to run and gun from defence and Hill was that guy that ran along side to accept the handball and could put the burners on and evade three tacklers. He would have been ideal.

When we sacked Richo, Ratts went to a chip mark game plan with a hold and wait and have guys move into space. Pretty much made Hill redundant as an outside runner. Off HBF he was able to gather ball and it was one area where we preferred to run the ball out until we could get a safe kick away to players ahead of the ball.

The issue is that a new coach would probably love a Hill running up the ground using his pace and ability to move out into the open for a handball receive. Somehow Ratts is going to have to reinvent the game plan and hopefully it uses fast slingshot ball movement like every other current side is doing to exploit the stand rule and other AFL directives to speed up the game.

I really hope that DeGoey isn't Lethlean types wanting a big story to hide from their footy failures at the cost of a player that we'll probably have to give away cheap and pay part of his salary only to bring in another $900k player that we don't really have a huge gaping hole on our list for. We probably should have planned around a new coach but we didn't and now we hope the next guy wants a DeGoey over a Hill or that Ratts can use him.

Unless Ratts reinvents himself I'm not sure it's going be a magic boost up the ladder.

Ive never said otherwise (thats likely a lie, i dont like Hill and never really have) but hes been perfectly adequate.

I was only making the point that Hill is an attacking player so when we dont have the ball hes a liability. We knew that, its not a suprised but saying hes never been a liability isnt really accurate. Weve not a played a style that made use of him but hes also never really improved his defeciencies.

You can blame him for getting 900k a year but you can judge his output against other players paid similar and in that regard hes never stacked up.

 

[phantom13]

If you have some bulk you can turn a shoulder into them or turn your body into them and they'll think before going in. That said he probably has to learn some technique other than putting his head in first. I know when you're a bit more solid you feel more confident throwing your own body in though.

I get your point but i think both his major injuries (the McKay one and the Butler one) were just complete freak accidents that no one could have avoided.