List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II
- Thread starter saintsrfreak
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
- May 11, 2019
- 6,633
- 12,028
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Sinclair has always been an elite kick from day dot that i can recall. Best in the team. So i don't think it's like for like. Sinclair is such a unique player that he will do well in probably any position other then full back or ruck. He's also got a great attitude towards his fitness, Aaron Siposs who was a beautiful kick never had the the right mental attitude to get the best out of himself.
If Clark makes it past the trade season, himself and Higgins especially need a big off season in the gym. These two more then any others i can think of would get the most benefit.
- Oct 21, 2016
- 529
- 1,669
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Add in Braden Campbell and Errol gulden. They get kissed on the dick nearly every year.
On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app
I agree with the last part but I'll qualify and say I don't mind if Clark has a puppy face and noodle arms but he absolutely needs more size and power in his legs and core.
That's what's going to help him around the contest and turn him into more of a clearance player.
Yeah, I agree but to be fair they nail every pick as well.
So it's not just good luck and the AFL looking after them
With where we are at we need to be aggressive with our current list if those opportunities arise.
The only plays I consider “must keeps” are.
King
Steele
Sinclair
Windy
Owens
Marshall
Wilkie
Mckenzie
Hayes
Long
Sharman
Crouch
Higgins
Whilst some of those names might surprise, they are based on effort and intensity as well as talent.
I am not saying trade everyone else, just listening to compelling offers for them if they arise. This includes the likes of Gresh, Hunter and Coffield.
The only plays I consider “must keeps” are.
King
Steele
Sinclair
Windy
Owens
Marshall
Wilkie
Mckenzie
Hayes
Long
Sharman
Crouch
Higgins
Whilst some of those names might surprise, they are based on effort and intensity as well as talent.
I am not saying trade everyone else, just listening to compelling offers for them if they arise. This includes the likes of Gresh, Hunter and Coffield.
- Oct 21, 2016
- 529
- 1,669
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Maybe it's not our drafting but our development.
Every year teams like Sydney and Geelong and Richmond (they had a whole premiership team full of them) draft nobody's that that turn into guns.
The only ones I can think of that we've ever done that with are Sinclair and Wilkie. And we have picked up a whole heap of these types over the last 10 years.
On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app
I think we have been alright at turning crap picks into good players, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, Hayes, and before him even Hind.
The problem has more been turning high-end draft picks into good players.
We have not got value from our 1st and 2nd round picks.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I'm Clarks biggest critic but he's worth persisting with. Higgins has been Rattsed and is a victim of the terrible forward structure.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
We blew a lot of 2nd rounders on Freezer and Hanners types and then had to trade capital for unders to get back into the second rounds. It's like a pay-day loans type scenario where you never get on top of what you're spending and the interest keeps adding up.
Would have been nice to fast track McKenzie just a little.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I think we just aren't great at talent spotting but on top of that development and system can make a GOP a valuable player. What we pay a top pick for other sides seem to find with later picks.
This thread is depressing
SteeleSaints
Premiership Player
- Mar 26, 2022
- 3,716
- 11,538
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
I can understand peoples attachment to Hunter Clark, the poor kid has been through a lot the last couple of years. He may improve siginificantly at some stage, but I think we have seen enough to suggest he is not going to become the midfielder we hoped for.
We have plenty of players who can play the half back role but desparately need elite midfielders - which there are plenty of early in the draft. If a club like GCS comes knocking I believe the club has to put emotions aside and make the trade.
We have plenty of players who can play the half back role but desparately need elite midfielders - which there are plenty of early in the draft. If a club like GCS comes knocking I believe the club has to put emotions aside and make the trade.
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Essendon have no interest in Bytel according to Sam Edmond
Debunked a hundred times
Steele
Wilkie
Hayes
Sharman
Highmore
Marshall all gops turned into valuable
King
NWM
Owens
Windhager all dps spotted for talent
- Jun 2, 2012
- 2,219
- 6,072
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Love the bloke like I loved Acres... he has a real upside to his game.
You don't trade players with X-factor just about to hit their sweetspot for draft picks.
Been down this path before and its never worked out.
So we have finally come to the conclusion we need elite midfielders.... most of us on BF have been screaming this for about a decade.
Trading out players for us is not really a good option, at present.
Some may well go if the club is serious about rejigging our list, but it will be more about creating list space than being able to secure a good trade.
The problems are however that:
North may for example be interested in Hill and Long. Hill we go for unders as his form with us has been below par, his contract $$$ (though if we part fund it may boost his trade value a little) and that he is now 29. Though with his build he should be able to play many years till his pace dips.
Long not being in contract will probably only achieve chump change.
Clark. Only 21 games in two years will discount his trade value. His talent would see some clubs interested, but they will want him cheap. Remember too that he is not a regular mid, or indeed really locked down in any position.
Billings. Unlike some I do regard him as a solid best 22 players. But any trade value we would achieve would be less than his value playing for us.
Gresh. I want to keep him. Has shown enough to create some interest but again would not generate good trade value.
Highmore etc..would only go cheaply.
Overall FA is the only way we could achieve a good boost. And good FA's are now almost all gone. JDG about the only hope it would seem. He has flaws, but in terms of ready to go players flawed players are the only ones really available to us.
We will not be attracting a star to join us either by trade. We can only look on in envy at a a deal like the Tigers now look set to pull of in bringing in two ready to go mids. A deal which makes sense for Tigers as they have also brought in some very good kids in recent years too. So adding the two GWS players makes enormous sense for their list strategy.
Unfortunately our list strategy is going to be limited to what we can do, rather than purely what we would like to do. It is not impossible, but we have to be a lost smarter with any players we secure from other clubs than we have been. Some like Crouch are a big tick (FA and good), but unfortunately with our costly acquisitions in Hill, Hannas and Jones it really has been a big bust. Now one never gets all trades right, but to do so poorly out of those three deals is certainly one of the reasons why our team has not improved. This trade period we cannot afford to get our calls wrong.
Personally I hope we continue more along the lines of last season, and aim to just make our group of young to mid aged players even better so that we can improve each year.
While I would like JDG I hope this year that they do not relas into trying to get too many instant fixes and aged back up players.
Some may well go if the club is serious about rejigging our list, but it will be more about creating list space than being able to secure a good trade.
The problems are however that:
- the players who would achieve good trades we cannot afford to lose. Compounded that the ones we have are all in areas we are already unders in.
- the players that we can afford to lose will all go for unders. Some for free.
North may for example be interested in Hill and Long. Hill we go for unders as his form with us has been below par, his contract $$$ (though if we part fund it may boost his trade value a little) and that he is now 29. Though with his build he should be able to play many years till his pace dips.
Long not being in contract will probably only achieve chump change.
Clark. Only 21 games in two years will discount his trade value. His talent would see some clubs interested, but they will want him cheap. Remember too that he is not a regular mid, or indeed really locked down in any position.
Billings. Unlike some I do regard him as a solid best 22 players. But any trade value we would achieve would be less than his value playing for us.
Gresh. I want to keep him. Has shown enough to create some interest but again would not generate good trade value.
Highmore etc..would only go cheaply.
Overall FA is the only way we could achieve a good boost. And good FA's are now almost all gone. JDG about the only hope it would seem. He has flaws, but in terms of ready to go players flawed players are the only ones really available to us.
We will not be attracting a star to join us either by trade. We can only look on in envy at a a deal like the Tigers now look set to pull of in bringing in two ready to go mids. A deal which makes sense for Tigers as they have also brought in some very good kids in recent years too. So adding the two GWS players makes enormous sense for their list strategy.
Unfortunately our list strategy is going to be limited to what we can do, rather than purely what we would like to do. It is not impossible, but we have to be a lost smarter with any players we secure from other clubs than we have been. Some like Crouch are a big tick (FA and good), but unfortunately with our costly acquisitions in Hill, Hannas and Jones it really has been a big bust. Now one never gets all trades right, but to do so poorly out of those three deals is certainly one of the reasons why our team has not improved. This trade period we cannot afford to get our calls wrong.
Personally I hope we continue more along the lines of last season, and aim to just make our group of young to mid aged players even better so that we can improve each year.
While I would like JDG I hope this year that they do not relas into trying to get too many instant fixes and aged back up players.
- Aug 24, 2006
- 9,510
- 8,271
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Gotta try and keep Clarke. He’s a very good user of the ball and finds time in traffic. Too soon to roll the dice on a trade.
As for Long being out of contract, that is just plain negligence. He is a devise player on this forum from a talent and attitude perspective, but I have always been a fan of his aggressive play. He has been the constant victim of changing rule interpretations and if he hadn’t of been rubbed out in 2020 l for a bump (and Ryder out injured) then we may well have beaten the tigers in the semi. We need to keep him or get him contracted so we get some trade blue. FFS!!!
As for Long being out of contract, that is just plain negligence. He is a devise player on this forum from a talent and attitude perspective, but I have always been a fan of his aggressive play. He has been the constant victim of changing rule interpretations and if he hadn’t of been rubbed out in 2020 l for a bump (and Ryder out injured) then we may well have beaten the tigers in the semi. We need to keep him or get him contracted so we get some trade blue. FFS!!!
Except we didn't.
I thought right from the start that future trading would mean dumb clubs would be forever a trade pick in the future, and it turns out the Saints were that dumb.
We had 2 second round picks in 2011, and Newnes and Webster were amongst the first picked for years.
We had 4 in 2012, they were all garbage. ( a smart operator would have seen the shallowness of that draft before trading out our firsts ).
2013, traded for Longer.
2014. McKenzie.
2015. Part of the Carlisle trade. FUTURAMA TIME, Nathan Freeman for 2016 2nd. ( i didn't mind it was a chance at top end talent.)
2016: OK we didn't have a second , but we did the Future first and 2016 second for our pick 10. A good deal on the surface.
Still not over the moon about Ben Long and instead of Clark we probably would have got Florent, Simpkin or Venables.
Our FUTURAMA pick was Jack Steele, hard to argue with that one.
2017: We traded our future 2nd and other stuff for a 2017 2nd. Then squandered it on Clavarino ( who was rated one of the best defenders in the draft ).
Our 2018 third went towards Logan Austin, so that left us with no later picks in 2018.
2018: We really didn't cough up much for Dan. We got a second round pick AND Dan in exchange for our 2019 2nd.
What we then did was kind of crazy , we traded our pick 28 for 2 later picks from Melbourne. ( one was Bytel ).
So yes , we threw a pick at Freezer. Dan gave us a current pick for a future pick. Just because we squandered the actual pick doesn't mean you can blame the Dan trade.
- May 8, 2017
- 9,227
- 24,976
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Red sox
Can’t easily find what he has, was primed last year then another two collision injuries. Duel sided players with the pendelbury, dal time are absolute gems.
Well 1 year on the table at st Kilda might be looking pretty good about now then.
- Nov 11, 2013
- 4,794
- 10,297
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
for someone that is supposedly dual sided he's a shocking kick
- Mar 14, 2011
- 17,086
- 87,837
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Leeds united, Chicago Bulls
Odd. His mother thinks differently
BigMonty
Club Legend
- Feb 20, 2014
- 1,160
- 3,628
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Premiership teams are based around a good draft haul for 3 or so years. Look at Saints in 2000-2003 Geelong same time. Haw 2005-2008 Rich late 2008-10. Each had 6 or so frdps to build a core around. Dates may be wrong but hope you get my drift.
Trading 2frdp for a champion only works if you are contending like Geelong Danger and Cameron.
We got 3 bona fide could be champion players last year. We need to get 3 more high draft picks (we have 2) if moving Hill and Long helps gets us another then so be it.
Trading Clarke for anything less than what we paid for pick 7 is madness as we take the risk of getting another.....Clarke. He stays unless we get a godfather of an offer which is unlikely.
No issue getting Mathieson or other cast-offs from GCS wanting to be in Melbourne. Just as long as we pay no more than a pick in the late 40s as a max.
We are not a destination club and sadly never will be. Oakland As operate a pretty good system they have to be smart and considered in their decision making so do we.
Collingwood were a rabble until this year salary cap etc, Essendon is the new Carlton and Richmond of the 1990s and 2000s.
They will always attract the want aways from GWS GCS etc. So be it but they pay overs in trade picks but unders in SC terms.
I look at the way the Saints play and the spirit we generate for a smaller club. Players give their all unlike Ess at times this year.
We extract a lot from our players and historically very few go elsewhere and excel unlike GWS GCS. Apart from recent examples of Hind and a long bow Paddy we get good value from our players.
However we recruit Paddy Ryder and Doogs and they become instant upgrades and play with new spirit....Steele is another as is Membrey. Crouch is back to his best form ever.
We are not as bad as we seem (8 and3) and clearly we are not as good as we seem (3 and 8). Both times out of finals by percentage.
So the players attitudes and spirit as a whole at Saints is good. Our talent identification is okay. The game plan is a work in progress and needs serious focus.
Get quality picks in and we will thereabouts also need luck...
Coff and Clarke Gresh are again almost new recruits and get them and Marshall and Steele each to play 18 games next year we will be right amongst it.
Add 3 quality picks under 30 to the three we have last year and should be fun to watch
On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app
Trading 2frdp for a champion only works if you are contending like Geelong Danger and Cameron.
We got 3 bona fide could be champion players last year. We need to get 3 more high draft picks (we have 2) if moving Hill and Long helps gets us another then so be it.
Trading Clarke for anything less than what we paid for pick 7 is madness as we take the risk of getting another.....Clarke. He stays unless we get a godfather of an offer which is unlikely.
No issue getting Mathieson or other cast-offs from GCS wanting to be in Melbourne. Just as long as we pay no more than a pick in the late 40s as a max.
We are not a destination club and sadly never will be. Oakland As operate a pretty good system they have to be smart and considered in their decision making so do we.
Collingwood were a rabble until this year salary cap etc, Essendon is the new Carlton and Richmond of the 1990s and 2000s.
They will always attract the want aways from GWS GCS etc. So be it but they pay overs in trade picks but unders in SC terms.
I look at the way the Saints play and the spirit we generate for a smaller club. Players give their all unlike Ess at times this year.
We extract a lot from our players and historically very few go elsewhere and excel unlike GWS GCS. Apart from recent examples of Hind and a long bow Paddy we get good value from our players.
However we recruit Paddy Ryder and Doogs and they become instant upgrades and play with new spirit....Steele is another as is Membrey. Crouch is back to his best form ever.
We are not as bad as we seem (8 and3) and clearly we are not as good as we seem (3 and 8). Both times out of finals by percentage.
So the players attitudes and spirit as a whole at Saints is good. Our talent identification is okay. The game plan is a work in progress and needs serious focus.
Get quality picks in and we will thereabouts also need luck...
Coff and Clarke Gresh are again almost new recruits and get them and Marshall and Steele each to play 18 games next year we will be right amongst it.
Add 3 quality picks under 30 to the three we have last year and should be fun to watch
On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app
- Status
