List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[gringo2011]

I always try to articulate this and you've put it perfectly. We're playing a rigged game. Doesn't mean we can't win, but it's not going to be easy unless we are very smart and we get lucky.

The smart bit is so easy to fix too. You get a proven list builder to draw up a plan and hire the best recruiting staff available. Cull some of those roles like Gubby Allen and use the money on the important list building staff. We used Lethlean as a reviewer and list architect and he was a media manager at AFL house with no experience in the role.

We kept Trout on for years as head recruiter, he was an assistant coach who left and we found a job for him. We have neglected spending on the only area that should matter when you are outside the top 8 and we still haven't fixed it......and our president owns a recruitment company.

Rath should go too. We play the worst brand of footy to watch in the competition and don't even get wins from it.

 

[hayes]

I reckon Sinclair isn't far off that star class these days. If they played him on ball he'd be a star. Ratts plays such a boring brand that it takes away the will to live of anyone watching. No player looks good playing back-foot risk free footy.

The players aren't anything special to us because they are mostly ring ins and other club's trash, we have a enough talent to be playing finals but the footy department are frauds. To me the whole club deserves nothing from us. No passion, no direction and no plan. Our best hope is that the wheels fall off quickly and we can sweep them all out.

Bassat is the most disappointing to me, the others don't give a *, they turn up to draw wage. He's meant to care but does FA but blabbers on.

I think it’s just because we haven’t seen them in enough meaningful games. From early on with Roo, Lenny etc it was big games, finals, prelims or grand finals year after year. It’s hard to get super invested when most years it’s a battle to get out of the bottom 4-6.

 

[snails13]

Not with us.
Ask Dodoro.
Or Hird.

Stocker to Essendon,surely ends the Bytel rumour

 

[snails13]

With all the super clubs recruiting stars from other teams,the Saints Recruitment team can have a ball with Free Agency, Delistings and Fringe players wanting out.
Should get a decent Sandringham side next year

 

[L_W_P]

Richmond have some defensive issues but they made it as far as they did with basically one consistent midfielder in Prestia. Now they’re basically getting another two of him. Taranto and Hopper puts them back into the top 4 I have no doubt about that. Frustrating.

Yep.

And with Cumberland emerging they can settle Balta at CHB. Another year into Gibcus.

Tarrant might be past it but they can find a spare parts player to just lockdown and free up the other two.

Watch them grab Joyce and turn him into a gun lol

 

[Yawkey way]

I reckon Sinclair isn't far off that star class these days. If they played him on ball he'd be a star. Ratts plays such a boring brand that it takes away the will to live of anyone watching. No player looks good playing back-foot risk free footy.

The players aren't anything special to us because they are mostly ring ins and other club's trash, we have a enough talent to be playing finals but the footy department are frauds. To me the whole club deserves nothing from us. No passion, no direction and no plan. Our best hope is that the wheels fall off quickly and we can sweep them all out.

Bassat is the most disappointing to me, the others don't give a *, they turn up to draw wage. He's meant to care but does FA but blabbers on.

I think he’s a smart guy who’s used to competent professionals and easily measured Kpi’s. He’s counting on guys he has placed his trust in who clearly have sold him a rose coloured version of the truth. Hopefully the review with noble on board will open his eyes but he’s still reliant on others when it comes to football matters.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

With all the super clubs recruiting stars from other teams,the Saints Recruitment team can have a ball with Free Agency, Delistings and Fringe players wanting out.
Should get a decent Sandringham side next year

St Kilda, the bin chickens of the AFL.

 

[MordySaint]

You couldn't make this stuff up that Clark might be on the trade table.

After everything our captain, coach has said about him in the last couple of years... it really beggars belief.

Lethers or whoever is in charge of this now, needs to say that he is a required player... and not tradeable.

 

[Remboy]

So Dusty's staying at the tiges for next year. If he manages to have a full preseason and then you add Hopper and Taranto, geez, all of a sudden they're flag faves.

They’re also a mill over the cap. Even with Cotchin and Riewoldt taking cuts you’d have to think they’d have to lose a couple of players.

 

[Joffaboy]

With all the super clubs recruiting stars from other teams,the Saints Recruitment team can have a ball with Free Agency, Delistings and Fringe players wanting out.
Should get a decent Sandringham side next year

Facts are, as they stand, we won't get the superstar A grader we were after.

We have a decent base of players, we need a Riewoldt, Lenny, Dal etc to get this current group to be a contender.

We may have them in King then Windy, Owens NWM etc. If we can't recruit we have to draft well. Yes I know this is obvious, and it may put is on hold for a year or two, however the list is young and most will still be there when we are competing.

Sinclair, Wilkie, Steele are our best. King is next.
We need Windy, Owens and NWM to keep maturing, but we also need the likes of Coff, Gres, Clark, Marshall even Billings to go to THEIR next level ( could be AA or like in Billings case just to a good player).

Then we need our top ten this year to be as ready as Windy and Owens was this year.

If we can make finals we may be able to trade for a Taranto type next year, if not hit the draft again.
I am one that thinks trading for Jones, Hill, Paddy, Butler, Doogs, Higgins and Crouch as FA filled gaping holes in the list and made us an even list.
Can be seen it was not successful as far as finals went, but the list is in better shape overall, especially age demographic.

So that are the choices, no point crying over it or the past, we have 60k members now, will be interesting to see how many don't back up next year or downgrade waiting for a sign there is not another false dawn.

 

[Joffaboy]

You couldn't make this stuff up that Clark might be on the trade table.

After everything our captain, coach has said about him in the last couple of years... it really beggars belief.

Lethers or whoever is in charge of this now, needs to say that he is a required player... and not tradeable.

Think you might need to re read what was posted by stav.
Clark is not 'on the table', but say GC went totally stupid and offered pick 5 and a second for him, it would be hard to knock it back.
As it stands we would be getting a late first at best, so it won't happen.

I reckon every single player is up for trade at the right price, if someone offered 1 and 2 for King I would trade him.

 

[snails13]

Totally agree,Joffa.
Need to get our hands on a couple of 2nd round picks to have a chance at Brisbane's 1st Round pick,this year .
Last year's draft was excellent for us ,but possibly lose NWM(Hope he stays) next year.and that should give us an extra 1st round pick.
So 4 1st rounders over next 2 drafts to go with Windy and Owens.
That's decent if list management get it right.


.

 

[#gosaintas]

You couldn't make this stuff up that Clark might be on the trade table.

After everything our captain, coach has said about him in the last couple of years... it really beggars belief.

Lethers or whoever is in charge of this now, needs to say that he is a required player... and not tradeable.

What the hell has Clark done that makes him untouchable
Everybody is tradeable for the right price

 

[MordySaint]

Think you might need to re read what was posted by stav.
Clark is not 'on the table', but say GC went totally stupid and offered pick 5 and a second for him, it would be hard to knock it back.
As it stands we would be getting a late first at best, so it won't happen.

I reckon every single player is up for trade at the right price, if someone offered 1 and 2 for King I would trade him.

I still don't really think pick 5 + a second is worth him.

Clark is just about to hit the sweetspot of his career. We know that he is a great player and has the ability to go to the next level. The coach and captain have said this publicly.

So we get pick 5... our recruitment team does not have a track record of nailing anything. You might then say that we have a new recruitment team, and can't hold them to past decisions.

So we relinquish a known entity for 2 rolls of the dice.

It that "how we want to be" at St Kilda?

 

[Joffaboy]

I still don't really think pick 5 + a second is worth him.

Clark is just about to hit the sweetspot of his career. We know that he is a great player and has the ability to go to the next level. The coach and captain have said this publicly.

So we get pick 5... our recruitment team does not have a track record of nailing anything. You might then say that we have a new recruitment team, and can't hold them to past decisions.

So we relinquish a known entity for 2 rolls of the dice.

It that "how we want to be" at St Kilda?

I was going to say picks 5 and 7 but as you know some nuffy on here would take it as a fact and have kniptions about me thinking we would get that.

Its an example only and it fits into my belief we need to hit the draft. You are correct, of course it is a gamble, however top 10 picks give you a far better chance at selecting a gun.

Just to cap off, I a Clark fan, people forget his weapon of kicking just as well off left or right, at his best he can open the field and undo zones. He has had terrible contact injuries over two seasons. Like you I would keep, just wanted to address the thought the Saints were actively Hawking him about.

 

[MordySaint]

What the hell has Clark done that makes him untouchable
Everybody is tradeable for the right price

What has he done?




Put his head over the ball and typified the St Kilda spirit.

You don't trade players who you are building a team or culture around.

 

[luca77]

I still don't really think pick 5 + a second is worth him.

Clark is just about to hit the sweetspot of his career. We know that he is a great player and has the ability to go to the next level. The coach and captain have said this publicly.

So we get pick 5... our recruitment team does not have a track record of nailing anything. You might then say that we have a new recruitment team, and can't hold them to past decisions.

So we relinquish a known entity for 2 rolls of the dice.

It that "how we want to be" at St Kilda?

I really want to keep Clark.
Just thinking about our 'assets', of value to us or another team. Top 10 picks are where it's at.
We've got 2 in C and C. Neither of them are in influential roles. Neither of them have the intensity or tank of a top midfielder.

Love them both, but can we have such limited assets tied up in HBFs?

I think they've adapted to their roles too. They haven't been forced to change their physiques, power up, beast up, switch on.

Injuries have been a factor, but they are potentially heading down the Billings path of losing their top 10 value.

If the right offer is there, we have to consider it. As Ratts said, can't keep rolling this shyte out. Need to reconfigure.

 

[stavro#4]

I was going to say picks 5 and 7 but as you know some nuffy on here would take it as a fact and have kniptions about me thinking we would get that.

Its an example only and it fits into my belief we need to hit the draft. You are correct, of course it is a gamble, however top 10 picks give you a far better chance at selecting a gun.

Just to cap off, I a Clark fan, people forget his weapon of kicking just as well off left or right, at his best he can open the field and undo zones. He has had terrible contact injuries over two seasons. Like you I would keep, just wanted to address the thought the Saints were actively Hawking him about.

Just to clarify.

I don’t believe we are hawking him.

Same goes with Hill and Long.

 

[MordySaint]

I really want to keep Clark.
Just thinking about our 'assets', of value to us or another team. Top 10 picks are where it's at.
We've got 2 in C and C. Neither of them are in influential roles. Neither of them have the intensity or tank of a top midfielder.

Love them both, but can we have such limited assets tied up in HBFs?

I think they've adapted to their roles too. They haven't been forced to change their physiques, power up, beast up, switch on.

Injuries have been a factor, but they are potentially heading down the Billings path of losing their top 10 value.

If the right offer is there, we have to consider it. As Ratts said, can't keep rolling this shyte out. Need to reconfigure.

So are you saying that Clark is our only player of value with tradeable quantities.

Just seems like a Pelican like approach, trade out the established talent for a couple of draft picks.

I'd be looking elsewhere for the solution and not going down this well worn path again.

 

[luca77]

So are you saying that Clark is our only player of value with tradeable quantities.

Nope. Not what I said at all!

 

[MordySaint]

Nope. Not what I said at all!

Sorry must have elaborated my thoughts a bit on that one. There is just alot of speculation around this, I always say where there is smoke... there is usually fire.

We have an established history of trading our talent for a few draft picks.

It's just a real worry. I really hope it isn't true.

 

[g_TRAIN]

You couldn't make this stuff up that Clark might be on the trade table.

After everything our captain, coach has said about him in the last couple of years... it really beggars belief.

Lethers or whoever is in charge of this now, needs to say that he is a required player... and not tradeable.

It's been reported Clark is open to trade not that the club is.

We won't trade him unless he really wants out because I doubt we would get any good offers.

We would be buying high and selling low due to his recent run with injuries.

Better off getting him fit and seeing what he can do with a good run at it.

If someone offered a top 10 pick I would probably take it though. But they won't

 

[Veer Right]

What the hell has Clark done that makes him untouchable
Everybody is tradeable for the right price

The question for me is what has Clark done to have such praise. He does a sidestep here and there to find space but other then that, a bit overrated. His kicking, his claimed weapon has been shocking this year. Then we get into his fitness base. He can't run a game out in the guts, it's clear as day. From what we saw early on, he looked like the middle was his for the taking but he hasn't come on. Windhagers passed him in year one.

 

[gringo2011]

So are you saying that Clark is our only player of value with tradeable quantities.

Just seems like a Pelican like approach, trade out the established talent for a couple of draft picks.

I'd be looking elsewhere for the solution and not going down this well worn path again.

We're always robbing Peter to pay Paul to patch over past mistakes. We didn't draft when we should have so are selling players to buy back in. At some point you just have to stop trying to be clever and do the basics well. You earn respect through actions and the whole club from president down need to learn that lesson. No-one respects us because we do stupid things more often than smart things.

 

[gringo2011]

The question for me is what has Clark done to have such praise. He does a sidestep here and there to find space but other then that, a bit overrated. His kicking, his claimed weapon has been shocking this year. Then we get into his fitness base. He can't run a game out in the guts, it's clear as day. From what we saw early on, he looked like the middle was his for the taking but he hasn't come on. Windhagers passed him in year one.

He's got issues but we've persisted this far and right on the cusp of him stepping up we are contemplating trading him out and hoping that we might have magically turned around our ability to draft quality. To me it's Clark is no different to Sinclair at the same age, didn't quite have a spot, couldn't see what he'd become etc.

To me Coff and Clark are both in the right age to surge. The only reason that makes sense for them wanting to trade them for is to buy Ratts time and the board for signing him because they'll claim we are a young side and Ratts is playing the kids. Spineless arse covering.