List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Key Dates:

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Draft Period, November 20–22

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
• Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
• Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
• Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm

* List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)

 

[momentbymoment]

You absolutely cannot take into account what Horse did in garbage time position wise. We were so ****ed in the 4th that Horse was just throwing s**t at the wall to see if we could force a miracle.

Also Geelong shifted SDK forward just so he could kick a goal. It wouldn't be too far to assume that Horse was doing the same with Paddy

Yeah I disagree.
You move someone from defence to forward because you consider that move an option. If Paddy had signed a contract saying he will not play forward due to injury concerns, then it would not be an option.

 

[momentbymoment]

Would that not be even worse?

So we will give he and his brother and the rest of the defensive group two years to work together and build their chemistry, before switching things up and moving Paddy up forward?

And then Paddy will be 28 and have to adjust to a new position again?

With all due respect I can't say I see the logic in it...

I couldn’t see the logic in giving Buddy another year, but here we are. Paddy is an option forward. He may not be the best option, but he is an option.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Paddy could well be a top shelf forward. I guess he has demonstrated it yet but he was picked #1 in the draft as full forward and then his career was blighted by injury. Since then, he has matured, rebuilt his confidence, gotten his body healthy, adjusted to playing at AFL level again, learned the Swans game style etc and not had any more injuries. After another good reason he could be the perfect FF recruit. How amazing would that be?

I had my feet firmly in the "No Paddy forward" group, but you have actually converted me.
He obviously has the tools and now has the self belief back that he can physically cope with it and I think it is the perfect answer.

We have the players to fill the backline void, not so much the one in the forward line.

 

[caesar88]

I couldn’t see the logic in giving Buddy another year, but here we are. Paddy is an option forward. He may not be the best option, but he is an option.

Sure, but so are Tom McCartin, Nick Blakey... they've played forward before, they're KPF sized. I don't think they're likely to move now that we've found them positions where they aren't average, so no idea why Paddy would be any different.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Sure, but so are Tom McCartin, Nick Blakey... they've played forward before, they're KPF sized. I don't think they're likely to move now that we've found them positions where they aren't average, so no idea why Paddy would be any different.

Yes, they both played forward when drafted, but neither were selected specifically as a KPF, unlike Paddy.

 

[caesar88]

Yes, they both played forward when drafted, but neither were selected specifically as a KPF, unlike Paddy.

Does the position they were drafted in matter though? Maybe he was playing in the wrong position all along, and it took Horse & co to realise it?

People seem very hung up on the fact he was a pick 1 KPF, but it doesn't change the fact that he was pretty average when he played as a KPF.

His career goal average in the 35 games he played as a forward is 0.93. Barely ahead of what Amartey has averaged in 13 games (0.8) and actually behind what McLean has averaged in 31 games (0.97).

So former pick 1 or not, is Paddy really going to offer that much that we don't already have up forward to make it worth interrupting our back six by moving him out of it?

 

[momentbymoment]

Does the position they were drafted in matter though? Maybe he was playing in the wrong position all along, and it took Horse & co to realise it?

People seem very hung up on the fact he was a pick 1 KPF, but it doesn't change the fact that he was pretty average when he played as a KPF.

His career goal average in the 35 games he played as a forward is 0.93. Barely ahead of what Amartey has averaged in 13 games (0.8) and actually behind what McLean has averaged in 31 games (0.97).

So former pick 1 or not, is Paddy really going to offer that much that we don't already have up forward to make it worth interrupting our back six by moving him out of it?

Bottom line is, we will need a top shelf FF next year - unless Logan, McLean and Amartey have breakout years. If we can’t trade for one, we may have to look at other options - including Paddy.

 

[hairy biker]

Yes, they both played forward when drafted, but neither were selected specifically as a KPF, unlike Paddy.

Tom was.

Draft profile;

Pick 33: Tom McCartin

The Sydney Swans have selected Tom McCartin with pick 33 in the 2017 National Draft.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Position: Forward
Strong-marking and mobile tall forward

Whilst Paddy was also drafted as a key fwd he wasn't great at it (as indicated by caesar88 above).
Sure an injury affected period at St Kilda, but in his 35 games he only kicked 3 goals once.
Tom bagged 3 goals on two occasions during his time up fwd.

I see Paddy as having found his spot as indeed has Tom.
We had the fourth best defence in the comp last season.
Sure Buddy & Reid probably won't be around in 2024, but possibly Rampe won't be as well, so it's not just the fwd line that may need changes.

I also see no reason to change a winning formula down back to solve a perceived issue up fwd.
It's really a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Callipygian]

Paddy's ceiling as a KPF is higher than Blakey's and probably Tom's. Talls take years to develop and Paddy now has those years behind him. He's seasoned, he's solid of body (in a way that Blakey really isn't) and, especially by next year, he'll be more experienced and confident than he was while playing in those concussion-blighted years at the Saints.

I also think there's potential for Blakey to move to a different position, including in the forward half in future, but I actually really like him down back - it takes maximum advantage of his sizzling speed and neat field kicking and diminishes the significance of his lack of composure kicking for goal (although I think that will have improved, and will continue to improve, as he gains experience and confidence).

Tom I think really belongs down back - I said I could see him being a KPD long-term from the very day we drafted him (albeit not on this forum). He has never had great goal kicking nous or accuracy and while I can see him making it as a forward I am delighted he is down back. But Paddy really has the tools.
I'm not too worried about unsettling the defence by pulling Paddy out of it. The defence have a strong system and play very much as a team within the team. They are really well adapted to adjusting to different personnel. Even after the loss of Teddy and Reg and Smooch, even after we tumbled down to the lower tiers of the ladder, we have continued to punch above our weight in defence (say, opposition scores per inside 50). Paddy is not the most important part of that - I think Rampe and then Lloyd are much more critical when it comes to organising our defence. Hopefully by the time they're gone Tom will be ready to lead the line, perhaps with Florent and hopefully Gould.

SGBeach, don't agree with you about the McCartins being slow. Tom has excellent pace and endurance for a KPP. I'm not so sure about Paddy but he isn't really slow. Of course neither of them are quick like Blakey but you don't expect (or need) that from a KPD.

 

[Millky95]

Tom was.

Draft profile;

Pick 33: Tom McCartin

The Sydney Swans have selected Tom McCartin with pick 33 in the 2017 National Draft.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Position: Forward
Strong-marking and mobile tall forward

Whilst Paddy was also drafted as a key fwd he wasn't great at it (as indicated by caesar88 above).
Sure an injury affected period at St Kilda, but in his 35 games he only kicked 3 goals once.
Tom bagged 3 goals on two occasions during his time up fwd.

I see Paddy as having found his spot as indeed has Tom.
We had the fourth best defence in the comp last season.
Sure Buddy & Reid probably won't be around in 2024, but possibly Rampe won't be as well, so it's not just the fwd line that may need changes.

I also see no reason to change a winning formula down back to solve a perceived issue up fwd.
It's really a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Tom was developing very nicely as a key forward until we had injuries, he swung down back and looked even better

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Bottom line is, we will need a top shelf FF next year - unless Logan, McLean and Amartey have breakout years. If we can’t trade for one, we may have to look at other options - including Paddy.

Breakout years on the way:

1. Stephens
2. Logan
3. Campbell

Bank it. The future is bright.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Yes, they both played forward when drafted, but neither were selected specifically as a KPF, unlike Paddy.

Tommy Mac was absolutely picked as a KPF

 

[Superstar swan]

Harley just came out and said he doesn't expect us to be major players in the player movement space this year.

 

[Millky95]

Harley just came out and said he doesn't expect us to be major players in the player movement space this year.

No cap space. Gotta pay for Buddy and JPK's extentions

/s

 

[caesar88]

Harley just came out and said he doesn't expect us to be major players in the player movement space this year.

Whilst I wouldn't be shocked if this was a red herring from Harley, I also wouldn't be shocked if it were true.

Player retention isn't gonna just suddenly stop being an issue we have to face, so I suspect we're always going to be more strapped for cash than many realise.

 

[Ticky009]

Harley just came out and said he doesn't expect us to be major players in the player movement space this year.

Source?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Stop with this Paddy forward nonsense please

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Whilst I wouldn't be shocked if this was a red herring from Harley, I also wouldn't be shocked if it were true.

Player retention isn't gonna just suddenly stop being an issue we have to face, so I suspect we're always going to be more strapped for cash than many realise.

Well we cant blame Buddy salary anymore what are we gonna blame?

 

[Kapers]

I would prefer we continue down the path of player retention. If we can keep this crew together we'll be near the top for a long time. Bring in players and we risk completely blowing up our list, a bit like what happened with Buddy (with the help of the afl).

 

[RUNVS]

I resemble that remark. I was one from 1964 until 1997 when I converted. TBH though it was pretty much in name only as I was much more into league until my son played Rules and we met a few of the players including Kelly, Mickey O and young Goodesy. All over.

So we got you in the Plugger trade too?

 

[Kiama Chris]

So we got you in the Plugger trade too?

Nah! The three guys mentioned and how they interacted with my 11 year old son. Just lovely.
His photo with Kell has pride of place in his study along with his signed Luke Parker guernsey.
I just tagged along.
Great club.

 

[Millky95]

Well we cant blame Buddy salary anymore what are we gonna blame?

Heeney and Mills. They aren't outputting enough despite getting B&Fs and All-Australians...

Tbh, it would be Parker

 

[rustycrate]

Harley just came out and said he doesn't expect us to be major players in the player movement space this year.

We don't need to be. We have the team. We don't need anyone else's has beens or coulda beens.
I think we have built a beautiful team full of youth in all areas.
Watch it grow. Watch the envy of other clubs too. We don't need any Packages that have dubious off-seasons. Except for a key forward there is nothing we need right now (and I'm sure we have explored all areas for this).
I like the fact we have the two best recruiters in the AFL.
Sydney should market T-Shirts with the slogan "Grow your own AFL team".

 

[Punts]

We need a forward imo going forward

No one is capable of 45-55

 

[The King!]

We need a forward imo going forward

No one is capable of 45-55

except for the two who did it last year? and Papley would have if he didnt miss so many games