List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading (Part 2)

[PeterSalt]

Do you have a link to the article? I can't find anything on Google or the AFL website. Not doubting you, just trying to find the article you referenced.

From the article below:

"For instance, it would have allowed Adelaide to list one of Rory Sloane or Taylor Walker as a veteran for 2024 and opened up another spot on their primary list. The idea was designed to keep veterans in the game without sacrificing a list spot that a youngster may have taken, with the veteran’s full payments still counted in the salary cap."

Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

There's a link in the post above

 

[Big Dub]

Going by what Barrett reported it was somewhere in the $600-650K range of guaranteed income

Barrett went on to say the incentive bonus's where 'easily achievable' and would push his income into band 1 range

He didn't say what the incentive bonuses related too. Number of games played based on his injury history? Behaviourial? Ranking in the clubs B&F? Brownlow votes? Etc

Surely that's easily fixed.

Give initial compo on guaranteed income, then upgrade a future pick (likely end of year 2) once incentive impact known.

Would have also worked in reverse for Joe Danniher's downgrade.

It's not like wvery draft isn't compromised already, and removes some of the bullsh*t.

 

[Mostyn]

Surely that's easily fixed.

Give initial compo on guaranteed income, then upgrade a future pick (likely end of year 2) once incentive impact known.

Would have also worked in reverse for Joe Danniher's downgrade.

It's not like wvery draft isn't compromised already, and removes some of the bullsh*t.

I think an easier fix is you reduce the bands to pick 11, pick 19 and pick 37.

Everyone gets weird when there is the risk of a crappy player like McKay getting a top pick as compo. Less bands means less aggravation, as it's probably pretty obvious where they'll fall.

 

[PeterSalt]

Surely that's easily fixed.

Give initial compo on guaranteed income, then upgrade a future pick (likely end of year 2) once incentive impact known.

Would have also worked in reverse for Joe Danniher's downgrade.

It's not like wvery draft isn't compromised already, and removes some of the bullsh*t.

Sanders made a comment earlier that in the NFL they include easy to achieve incentives into the calculation for compensation.

I don't know what the right answer is

Weirdly, the AFL has never let clubs know the calculations used to reach a decision on FA compensation due to 'fear the clubs will manipulate the knowledge' to achieve favourable outcomes.

 

[Redline]

Will end up being a 2024 2nd.

After the Doedee compo, 2023 picks will be pretty much useless we bundle them up to move up.

I think a 2024 second would be a great outcome. We might have to give something back through a swap of picks.

 

[PeterSalt]

I think an easier fix is you reduce the bands to pick 11, pick 19 and pick 37.

Everyone gets weird when there is the risk of a crappy player like McKay getting a top pick as compo. Less bands means less aggravation, as it's probably pretty obvious where they'll fall.

Or get rid of free agency all together

 

[Big Dub]

Sanders made a comment earlier that in the NFL they include easy to achieve incentives into the calculation for compensation.

I don't know what the right answer is

Weirdly, the AFL has never let clubs know the calculations used to reach a decision on FA compensation due to 'fear the clubs will manipulate the knowledge' to achieve favourable outcomes.

That appears a typically successful strategy by the AFL . . .

 

[Big Dub]

Or get rid of free agency all together

Geelong would be premiers and North, Gold Coast and GWS would finish bottom 3 every year.

There does need to be some compensation, but don't see why it should come from teams that don't get the free agent.

Surely a 20% discount and cobbled together lower picks would work better?

 

[PeterSalt]

That appears a typically successful strategy by the AFL . . .

I can never remember a campaign run via the media to downgrade a players value like in the case of Crouch

And I can't remember a campaign run via the media to inflate a players value and the expected outcome like we've seen this year in regard to Ben McKay

And on another note, how does renegotiating Joe Daniher's contract a few months after it commences to extend it a further 2 years and smooth out the payments even pass the sniff test?

Likewise the Bowes contract smoothing done by Geelong?

So apart from the McKay circus going on this year, we have Dodoro and SOS cooking up another scheme that from a glance looks decidedly fishy.

Any trade done with Norths future priority picks is also going to smell like fly blown road kill

 

[PeterSalt]

Geelong would be premiers and North, Gold Coast and GWS would finish bottom 3 every year.

There does need to be some compensation, but don't see why it should come from teams that don't get the free agent.

Surely a 20% discount and cobbled together lower picks would work better?

If there was no compensation, clubs would need to trade. Players, draft picks.

Clubs simply wouldn't have the draft capital to pull some of these deals off.

 

[maxlilly]

I can never remember a campaign run via the media to downgrade a players value like in the case of Crouch

And I can't remember a campaign run via the media to inflate a players value and the expected outcome like we've seen this year in regard to Ben McKay

And on another note, how does renegotiating Joe Daniher's contract a few months after it commences to extend it a further 2 years and smooth out the payments even pass the sniff test?

Likewise the Bowes contract smoothing done by Geelong?

So apart from the McKay circus going on this year, we have Dodoro and SOS cooking up another scheme that from a glance looks decidedly fishy.

Any trade done with Norths future priority picks is also going to smell like fly blown road kill

Is it any wonder why so many people lose faith in the AFL and think it is corrupt

 

[maxlilly]

How strange is it that the thought of losing Himmelberg is a near disaster as we have no big man depth at all.
Plenty of us have been saying for years that we need KPP and a young ruckman
But then we go and use our last pick last year on a player like Bond

 

[Crow till I die]

I can never remember a campaign run via the media to downgrade a players value like in the case of Crouch

And I can't remember a campaign run via the media to inflate a players value and the expected outcome like we've seen this year in regard to Ben McKay

And on another note, how does renegotiating Joe Daniher's contract a few months after it commences to extend it a further 2 years and smooth out the payments even pass the sniff test?

Likewise the Bowes contract smoothing done by Geelong?

So apart from the McKay circus going on this year, we have Dodoro and SOS cooking up another scheme that from a glance looks decidedly fishy.

Any trade done with Norths future priority picks is also going to smell like fly blown road kill

Don't tell Hugh-Fearnley Whittingstall..he might try to cook it

 

[Crow_68]

Geelong would be premiers and North, Gold Coast and GWS would finish bottom 3 every year.

There does need to be some compensation, but don't see why it should come from teams that don't get the free agent.

Surely a 20% discount and cobbled together lower picks would work better?

No compensation would only work if all salaries are released publicly.

 

[The Perfect Stranger]

Disappointing that it's looking like we will be losing 2 experienced, bid bodied players with no replacements coming in other than picks in a poor draft.

After two decades and counting the "improvement from within" strategy is look abit infallible.

 

[FR0GGY]

Sanders made a comment earlier that in the NFL they include easy to achieve incentives into the calculation for compensation.

I don't know what the right answer is

Weirdly, the AFL has never let clubs know the calculations used to reach a decision on FA compensation due to 'fear the clubs will manipulate the knowledge' to achieve favourable outcomes.

Which is ironic given they manipulate to achieve favorable outcomes because it’s not transparent

 

[PeterSalt]

Which is ironic given they manipulate to achieve favorable outcomes because it’s not transparent

Yes, they like being in control .. almost like it's all stage managed

 

[Large 1]

Sanders made a comment earlier that in the NFL they include easy to achieve incentives into the calculation for compensation.

I don't know what the right answer is

Weirdly, the AFL has never let clubs know the calculations used to reach a decision on FA compensation due to 'fear the clubs will manipulate the knowledge' to achieve favourable outcomes.

I think this is where the AFL’s power to “correct” the compensation when the formula provides an inappropriate result is meant to come into effect. But there was a clear narrative in the Crouch trade, so we know the AFL was never going to intervene; or arguably got what they wanted.

Personally, I think they need some assumed games played and then calculate the compensation based on that. For example assume the player will play 70% of the games of each year of the contract. Then if that triggers the trigger clauses then the compensation is calculated on base pay plus trigger clauses.

 

[Large 1]

Which is ironic given they manipulate to achieve favorable outcomes because it’s not transparent

That is why it is not transparent.

 

[rabidcrow]

How strange is it that the thought of losing Himmelberg is a near disaster as we have no big man depth at all.
Plenty of us have been saying for years that we need KPP and a young ruckman
But then we go and use our last pick last year on a player like Bond

Some people were surprised we recontracted him last year. But a very good forward thinking play that was. We now have him under contract wanting to leave. He won’t be going anywhere unless we get an equivalent or slight upgrade. Not the worst position to be in


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Big Dub]

If there was no compensation, clubs would need to trade. Players, draft picks.

Clubs simply wouldn't have the draft capital to pull some of these deals off.

If there was no compensation, players would move for free. The AFLPA isn't letting free agency be removed now.

 

[Sanders]

No, I think $650k is band 2.

It may have got to that with triggers, but I don't think it was that high in his guarantee.

Nobody knows what the bands are though

 

[Crow till I die]

Nobody knows what the bands are though

Its not like they are defined like mowing strips on a footy oval and that is by design

 

[Golumless]

Some people were surprised we recontracted him last year. But a very good forward thinking play that was. We now have him under contract wanting to leave. He won’t be going anywhere unless we get an equivalent or slight upgrade. Not the worst position to be in


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I doubt 'being saved from our incompetence' is a good position to be in.

 

[Big Dub]

Nobody knows what the bands are though

Not sure I'd be 100% certain of their accuracy, given the massive lack of intel from AFL house, but these are the bands listed by Fox Sports in 2020 (AFL free agency compensation: The trade period’s most confusing and controversial rule):

• Top five per cent = first-round pick
• Top 15 per cent = end-of-first-round pick
• Top 30 per cent = second-round pick
• Top 50 per cent = end-of-second-round pick
• Top 70 per cent = third-round pick
• Below that = no pick

Believe at your own peril.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Not sure I'd be 100% certain of their accuracy, given the massive lack of intel from AFL house, but these are the bands listed by Fox Sports in 2020 (AFL free agency compensation: The trade period’s most confusing and controversial rule):

• Top five per cent = first-round pick
• Top 15 per cent = end-of-first-round pick
• Top 30 per cent = second-round pick
• Top 50 per cent = end-of-second-round pick
• Top 70 per cent = third-round pick
• Below that = no pick

Believe at your own peril.

Which is ridiculous if McKay ends up in the top 5%