List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[koutashoulda1_1]

If we assess Jack as a third tall forward, his output isn’t good enough in my opinion, it’s when he’s judged on being second ruck that he has a real position.

Jacks last 5 games he’s been fantastic, if he’s not tucking though, I don’t see how we play three tall forwards and two rucks.

Jack would have been more effectual last night than Pitto in the team

I kind of agree, the sticking point for me on both points tho is that he is still pretty young, especially in key forward or ruck terms.

So I'd expect his strengths as a forward to improve, but I worry we will break him as a ruckman. Simply not big enough and will get chewed up if we keep using him this way. Pitto can handle that kind of treatment week in week out.

His two difficulties as a 3rd key forward are his lack of speed and accuracy on goal. He can expose a ruckmen running back, but most KPD will have him covered (except for his 5000efforts).

Really hoping his increased strength covers for his lack of speed, and he improves his kicking. If he can improve as a forward we can use him less in ruck and let TDK handle that. Pitto as very necessary depth

 

[Juddrockz]

Still think we need to make a big effort to get Young and Weitering firing together down back. Kempy can play but he's outmatched physically against proper KPFs down there. Lets hope they can get it sorted over the off season.

Weiters says,ummmm yeah,no thanks!
At least Kempy will attempt to mark the incoming ball and not just double fist it to random places like Young does.
Young hasn't learnt to stay out of the Bots way down back.

 

[Foucault1989]

Fogarty is one that is fascinating. His return has coincided with our run of form and his tackling is elite. Is that enough for him to win a new contract?

Yep 100%. I always notice his front on pressure in the forward line. Always harassing. Also decent in the centre bounces. I like him. Clever role player

 

[Foucault1989]

I'd like Jack to stay. He is such an important player for us and gives everything. He's the kind of player you want in your list

 

[Chamber JJJ]

A player like Jamie Elliott would put us right up the top, he just keeps getting better, the top end small forwards of the comp really elevate their teams.

We had the chance to get him should have taken him after Fasola fail same as Liam Ryan at WAFL level.

 

[Chamber JJJ]

I'd like Jack to stay. He is such an important player for us and gives everything. He's the kind of player you want in your list

I think he is gone Silvagni doesnt take pay cuts they usually break the Cap. I can't see us keeping Mcgovern and Silvagni definitely not both with the contracts we already have. I think Mcgovern stays if he want can see Caleb Marchbank on the cheap if body hold.

 

[Chamber JJJ]

Yep 100%. I always notice his front on pressure in the forward line. Always harassing. Also decent in the centre bounces. I like him. Clever role player

Fogarty was all gone but has done a 360 and become a player playing the Football we all hoped would see but didn't think possible. He will survive after putting us near finals him and Cunningham made us a better harder side tackling. Fogarty, Cunningham and Marchbank were all gone with injuries but are making a case all needed only injuries are the reason not getting keep. Sam Philip is the unlucky one that may not get the chance what could be.

 

[thylacine60]

Weiters on SEN just then gave Marchy a special mention as well saying was great to have him back as it allows him greater freedom to play the intercept role. Clearly highly regarded by the senior guys in the club. If he holds together for remainder of the season you would give him another year. Was rusty last night but again clearly glimpses of elite defender capability.
McGovern has held up, Martin and Cunners as well .....(so far) maybe sakc Russell has managed to finally get Marchy up to scratch as well. I hope so. Some of his marking last night was great.

Charlie made sure to mention Marchy. Probably some empathy there with the LTI stuff.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Weiters says,ummmm yeah,no thanks!
At least Kempy will attempt to mark the incoming ball and not just double fist it to random places like Young does.
Young hasn't learnt to stay out of the Bots way down back.

Don't disagree with that at all and don't think Young should be playing at the moment on form. Just mean for next year if Young is sticking around he needs to sort it out with Bot, he's a key defender not a ruck or fwd so if he' staying on him and Weitering need to sort out their chemistry issues and Young needs to work on his consistency.

Last year he showed some great signs as the lone man down there but much like Liam Jones at the start he needs to learn to work in tandem with Weiters who's our main man.

 

[Chamber JJJ]

Don't think we need 15 changes to this list

I think
Sam Durdin for Hudson O'Keeffe
Sam Philip for Alex Cincotta

4 picks in draft minimum i reckon

Ed Curnow for Round 1 Draft Retires
Lachie Plowman for Round 2 Draft
Josh Honey for Round 3 Draft
Paddy Dow for Round 4 Draft as wants more AFL so will go

Pushed Out or Free Agent

Mitch MgGovern
Jack Silvagni

Player they might Trade unfortunately. They contracted for 2024

Lochie OBrien
Zac Fisher
Jack Carroll
Corey Durdin
Matthew Cottrell

All 3 Looks to be kept if body hold rest of season and not have another long term injury

David Cunningham
Lachie Fogarty
Caleb Marchbank

Should Get on VFL list for link type player and tackling Heath Ramshaw
More likely to get but rather not Jade Greesham

Players Delisted or left Football trade in maybe looked out

Have a look at see if his head in right place definitely bring in at VFL Side Fischer McAsey
Rhys Mathieson if they see anything their still worth at AFL level
Liam Ryan still 26 more small forward needed only cap space a problem.

 

[dragonsblues]

The most important thing is to keep a level head and continue to look for opportunities to improve the list.

There will be hard decision to be made and we can’t fall into the trap of wanting to stay the same on the back of the last 6 weeks.

Have full faith in Austin to turnover the fringe players and bring in some diamonds in the rough.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The most important thing is to keep a level head and continue to look for opportunities to improve the list.

There will be hard decision to be made and we can’t fall into the trap of wanting to stay the same on the back of the last 6 weeks.

Have full faith in Austin to turnover the fringe players and bring in some diamonds in the rough.

The problem is it could be 10 weeks and possibly a final or two. Still plenty to play out, and I’m sure things will change again.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I know player swaps rarely if ever happens these days, but if the rumour of Collingwood's interest in Young a little while back has any substance, would we consider a straight swap of Young and Ginnivan?

Keep Nigel on as our back up KPD, and draft another either this year or next.

Yeah, nah?

 

[Stamos]

I know player swaps rarely if ever happens these days, but if the rumour of Collingwood's interest in Young a little while back has any substance, would we consider a straight swap of Young and Ginnivan?

Keep Nigel on as our back up KPD, and draft another either this year or next.

Yeah, nah?

Nah.

Young signed a 3 year contract extension this year, I'd be shocked if we moved him on.
But if we did, it would be to clear cap space. And we wouldn't want to blow that on Ginnivan.

 

[Prem17]

A player like Jamie Elliott would put us right up the top, he just keeps getting better, the top end small forwards of the comp really elevate their teams.

I would agree with the thinking but I think what we have is younger and has potentially more upside.
Owies, Martin and Motlop are all working well.
Add Durdin to that list and I really don't think we need to add another small forward

 

[Blue__Balls]

If we've learnt nothing else in the last 6 weeks, it's that commitment, or buy-in, cannot be underestimated.

We should look for positional types we need, but we must target players who understand that team-first actions are a non-negotiable.

By all measures, up until very recently I think everyone here would have been picking Fisher over Fogarty. Now we're seeing that a player with limitations does more for the team when they uncompromisingly put their body on the line and make their chief function on the field bringing their teammates into the game.

Gresham worries me. He looks like he's checked out and that is an alarm bell right there. Ditto for other out of contract options like Wingard, Fantasia, M. Pickett - they all strike me as conditional footballers, and that's a type we've finally weeded out of our starting side.

Recruit players with good football instincts and absolute commitment to team play. If that means they're marginally slower or shorter than "conditional" alternatives, so be it.

 

[gbatman]

Would we take a roll of the dice with Jeremy McGovern

20

Jeremy Mcgovern

Age

32

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

4.6

3star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

238.7

4star

D

12.4

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

183.4

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

7.2

5star

T

1.4

4star

? Would be extremely gettable IMO. But can we do what we have with Mitch and fix his body?

1. We are a contender.
2. WCE are terrible so has to go elsewhere to win another flag, we are a contender.
3. Wants to play with brother.
4. A proper CHB might fit in really well into our side.
5. Could probably get him really cheaply.
6. Free agent.

A fully fit Jeremy McGovern

20

Jeremy Mcgovern

Age

32

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

4.6

3star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

238.7

4star

D

12.4

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

183.4

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

7.2

5star

T

1.4

4star

in our side works well. But again, body has been terrible, not sure we could do anything different for him that WCEs can't to get him going but again, look at Mitch.

Think also we may have all of a sudden found ourselves with too many rucks. Pitto and DeKoning signed. Mirkov signed. Has O'Keefe?

As for re-signing players.

Think Fisher has played his last Carlton senior game. Unless he decides he's going to tackle and comit the body and apply pressure he doesn't fit into our system anymore so he's probably off to WCEs.

Dow, it's not as if he can't get a game, he's been playing games with us currently. He's proven to be very good as the sub. Other teams will want him. But what we will get for him, is it worth it? IMO he's valuable depth and a great SUB. IMO he's proving his value to the team.

O'Brien is currently signed for next season which has proven to be a really bad move from us. At the time he was our best winger. Now he's behind about 5 wingers (Acres, Docherty, Hollands, Cottrell, Binns). So we need to take any trade we can get.

Fogarty. I don't think he's best 22 but I think he's really valuable depth and the fact he's been playing consistently week in week out proves that.

McGovern, he's proven his body is good and so is his footy, gotta get him signed up.

Curnow, he's done.

Cuningham has proven himself IMO.

Silvagni much the same.

Philp, think he has gone but we should offer him a VFL contract.

Marchank, well he's playing AFL again. We know he's good. Do we go around again?

Plowman, gone.

Honey, gone.

Sam Durdin

38

Sam Durdin

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

, think he's gone as well if we think we go into next season with key defender depth, might get another year as key defender depth.

O'Keefe, has he signed? Might be a victim of us having too many rucks, give him a VFL contract.


Think our outs will be:

Fisher - Traded
Honey - Delisted
Philp - Delisted
Plowman - trade/delist
O'Brien - Trade is possible
Curnow - Retired

In the right circumstances we might look at trading Young and I think Carroll could be on the cards if it comes up. Dow of course will have trade interest.

Short length contracts:
Silvagni
Durdin
Marchbank
Cuningham
Fogarty
McGovern
Dow

IMO this is probably enough list space cleared, especially seeing we don't have all our picks. Try and bring in 6 new players. Salary cap of course is the defining question here as to whether we can do this.

 

[gbatman]

I would agree with the thinking but I think what we have is younger and has potentially more upside.
Owies, Martin and Motlop are all working well.
Add Durdin to that list and I really don't think we need to add another small forward

I reckon Durdin will absolutely kill it with our new game plan.

Would be keen to see us take a medium forward like Martin, he's the rare one on the list and a clear missing piece.

Would not be against another quick burst mid either. Walsh, Docherty and Dow can do it, Cerra half does it but that is where the modern game is at. New a few of those quick guys who can play in the centre so we aren't relying on too few.

One day we will get up and Docherty will be getting too old too so a successor could be handy there.

Think we will be all about leg speed, nice kicking and good tackling.

Just on needs, key position is up there. Young and Lemmy in the reserves is ok but we could do with another IMO.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

How many cat b rookies are we allowed? Austin flew out to Ireland yesterday, clearly looking at the Irish to boost what is a pretty bare draft for us this year


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[branedotorg]

McGovern is done, over, cooked, kaput

 

[Blue By Blood]

Pass on Flanders even if he were to be available. I don’t see any real weapons to his game. Doesn’t have great pace, accumulates but isn’t damaging, doesn’t have a weapon with his disposal, is quite short which makes him easier to tag and bully around stoppages. Solid player but we have other more pressing list management needs and he would cost too much in draft capital regardless.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I reckon Durdin will absolutely kill it with our new game plan.

Would be keen to see us take a medium forward like Martin, he's the rare one on the list and a clear missing piece.

Would not be against another quick burst mid either. Walsh, Docherty and Dow can do it, Cerra half does it but that is where the modern game is at. New a few of those quick guys who can play in the centre so we aren't relying on too few.

One day we will get up and Docherty will be getting too old too so a successor could be handy there.

Think we will be all about leg speed, nice kicking and good tackling.

Just on needs, key position is up there. Young and Lemmy in the reserves is ok but we could do with another IMO.

Happy to have Durdin, Mots, Fogarty and Owies all competing for one or two spots. Keeps them hungry and focused which is what the defensive forward/goalsneak role requires. Owies has one spot sewn up for now with his craft and craftiness. Just keeps getting to the right spots at the right times. Fog looking the goods as well. People should take note of how often Fogarty and Cunners are showing up on the periphery of stoppages between the arcs. Far more so than Durdin, Mots and Fisher were earlier in the season. Speaks to the confidence that Voss has in them to crack in and win the ground ball, whilst holding width when necessary to provide an outlet or shut down oppo spread.

Medium/impact forward should be our number one draft target. Find one who is AFL-ready(ish) and they can play 5-10 games next year covering for the inevitable injuries to guys like Martin and Cunners. Don't chase a mature player from another club, just use a pick around 6-12 (dependent on ladder finish and trading up the board) to take a long term one.

Second draft target is midfield pace. Not as critical as insurance against Martin/Cunners injuries, but still an important long-term piece of the puzzle.

No need to recruit a ruck now, which is nice. Had seen plenty of angst about a 4yr deal for Pitto - not in the least concerned. He's either first choice ruck and a bargain, supplanted by TDK and more than handy depth/support, or if O'Keeffe comes on in a big way we'll have leverage in any trade talks should Pitto want to move for more senior opportunity. 4 year deal doesn't mean we have to keep him for 4 years.

Key defensive stocks are where we should be shopping around other clubs. No need for a big McKay or Himmelberg type target, just a solid citizen who gets the job done. Hard pass on Jeremy McGovern - it's taken years to (maybe) iron out Mitch's fitness/injury issues. Jeremy is 32 next April - anyone picking him up is just going to be nursing him through the last couple of years of his career.

Starting to think that Dow could well stay. Watching him the last few weeks, the other guys get around him when he does good work, and he doesn't seem like a player going through the motions. He's shown that he can come in and do a job when injuries necessitate, so if he's not fielding big offers from other clubs then maybe he's willing to take some rolling 1yr or 1+1 clause contracts (on suitably conservative or incentive-based pay) to be part of a flag push with us.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

How many cat b rookies are we allowed? Austin flew out to Ireland yesterday, clearly looking at the Irish to boost what is a pretty bare draft for us this year


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2 per list…

 

[Blue__Balls]

Pass on Flanders even if he were to be available. I don’t see any real weapons to his game. Doesn’t have great pace, accumulates but isn’t damaging, doesn’t have a weapon with his disposal, is quite short which makes him easier to tag and bully around stoppages. Solid player but we have other more pressing list management needs and he would cost too much in draft capital regardless.

Would be interested if we hadn't picked up Cerra. Similar no-nonsense, no-frills, get-the-job-done types, but I have Cerra comfortably ahead in most respects.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Pass on Flanders even if he were to be available. I don’t see any real weapons to his game. Doesn’t have great pace, accumulates but isn’t damaging, doesn’t have a weapon with his disposal, is quite short which makes him easier to tag and bully around stoppages. Solid player but we have other more pressing list management needs and he would cost too much in draft capital regardless.

Watching Flanders a bit tonight , he's not fast, good inside, but similar to what we already have.(won't be a bargain basement type)
We need pace and another X-factor forward, forward/mid more.