List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[BigFrizz36]

A great half forward/small forward with genuine speed would be fantastic but we still need players across the field who are capable of chewing off those kicks into the corridor which open up the game and let us get 1 on 1's for our forwards. 3-4 more above average/elite kicks would open up so many more options for us in terms of ball movement. I don't blame Voss for the bully ball style we play at the moment because that's playing to our strengths far more than precision kicking.

E. Hollands would hearly be perfect for that role.

 

[GT619]

Pick 6 for TDK. I'd drive him to Moorabbin myself.

Would give us a crack at an elite kid in this years superdraft and allow us to use our 2023 & 2024 firsts on bringing in someone like E Hollands, Bergman, Harry Himmelberg, Mckay.

Would improve our list significantly despite TDK's potential upside.

For the right price yes

 

[GT619]

Might be round 1 but Austin, do whatever if it takes to bring in some blokes who can actually kick the footy. Far too many ball butchers on the list at present.

He knows it too. Cowan hollands his boys quality kicks

 

[thylacine60]

Pick 6 for TDK. I'd drive him to Moorabbin myself.

Would give us a crack at an elite kid in this years superdraft and allow us to use our 2023 & 2024 firsts on bringing in someone like E Hollands, Bergman, Harry Himmelberg, Mckay.

Would improve our list significantly despite TDK's potential upside.

Because young athletic quality ruckman with 4 years in the game are so easy to replace. He was wonderful last night.

 

[Accidental genius]

Yeah I thought tdk played well. He looks to have improved on last season based on the eye test. Would have been sensational had he taken that mark

 

[marcmurphy3]

Yeah I thought tdk played well. He looks to have improved on last season based on the eye test. Would have been sensational had he taken that mark

Biggest improvement was his strength. Looked genuinely able to compete with big Nank who is not a match up that suits him.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Because young athletic quality ruckman with 4 years in the game are so easy to replace. He was wonderful last night.

I thought he was very good last night. Much more consistent than we've seen from him in the past and much stronger in the contest. I was happy seeing that

But...I've said it from the start of the year though re TDK - If he leaves with a high price attached to his name, I'd be more than happy for him to look elsewhere if that's his wish as I believe with the draft/trade capital he'd provide us could improve the list just as much as him reaching the next level. If he wants to stay and keep improving his game I'd never be upset keeping a player with his talents on the list.

 

[branedotorg]

I thought he was very good last night. Much more consistent than we've seen from him in the past and much stronger in the contest. I was happy seeing that

But...I've said it from the start of the year though re TDK - If he leaves with a high price attached to his name, I'd be more than happy for him to look elsewhere if that's his wish as I believe with the draft/trade capital he'd provide us could improve the list just as much as him reaching the next level. If he wants to stay and keep improving his game I'd never be upset keeping a player with his talents on the list.

genuine win/win

 

[Faz 2000]

Agreed, I thought TFK was certainly a "pass" last night. Looked fitter and stronger. Didn't tear it apart, but looked a genuine #1 for sure. Whichever way it goes, his continued form can only be a good thing.

Elsewhere on the team, the deplorable kicking skills, invisible half-forwards and panicking when the game was on the line was also all on display. When those things are so prevalent, it is a combination of "List Management" (ie. having the wrong guys, needing different guys) and Coaching (ie. player psychology/preparedness, instilling the gameplan, knowing where to move). The solution I guess is a bit of both.

We would be a VASTLY better side if Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

and Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

were the players we kid ourselves they are. A mid-sized forward with power would be an amazing foil for the talls and smalls. I don't think that player exists on our list.

 

[Beyond Blue]

It’s pretty clear we need a dynamic midfield/forward type like a Bolton, Bailey or Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

25

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

as I think it’s clear none of Martin, Fisher and Cunners are ever going to get there for us.

I thought we missed a trick not trading up for Sheezel of Humphreys so now we’ll have to look around the league. Sam Flanders or Elijah Hollands would fit the bill nicely but might be hard to get if they have break out years. Rachele and Perkins would cost an arm and a leg. Liam Henry is probably a bit too speculative.

If the Saints want TDK so badly maybe we ask for Gresham in return? Similarly if goes to Sydney do we ask for Papley or Gulden or Hayward in return?

 

[TENACIOUS]

IMO we desperately need another KPD, 1/2x small goal kicking crumbing forward & KPF/2nd ruck (that can help down the line)

#1 Target
Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

(McKay, Weitering & Young would be elite)
1/2x Best small forwards we can get

Do what ever it takes & move on who ever we need, to get it done...

#KPF/2nd
We have Lemmey & O'keeffee are likely talents for this position.
Leave him in the gym for the year... Also hope we are brave enough to give him a game or two, he may be able to play at the level...

 

[Faz 2000]

If the Saints want TDK so badly maybe we ask for Gresham in return? Similarly if goes to Sydney do we ask for Papley or Gulden or Hayward in return?

I think these are exactly the right "types". We've shown to interest in drafting them or aptitude for creating them, so maybe we have to buy them.

These guys WANT goals. They finish. They're quick. They are dynamic and annoying and energetic and they want the big forwards to drop the ball so they get their go.

I think Motlop and Durdin look promising - not there yet obviously. But someone with a bit more size or another string to their bow (with some marking capability or midfield burst capability) would be great.

 

[Juddernaut08]

IMO we desperately need another KPD, 1/2x small goal kicking crumbing forward & KPF/2nd ruck (that can help down the line)

#1 Target
Ben McKay (McKay, Weitering & Young would be elite)
1/2x Best small forwards we can get

Do what ever it takes & move on who ever we need, to get it done...

#KPF/2nd
We have Lemmey & O'keeffee are likely talents for this position.
Leave him in the gym for the year... Also hope we are brave enough to give him a game or two, he may be able to play at the level...

Why is KPD a 'desperate' need?

We have a great 1-2 combo in Weiters-Young. We have serviceable backups with Durdin (KPD) and Plowman (3rd tall).

To me the desperate needs should be to fill spots in the 22 where we have below average output. KPD is certainly not that.

 

[Beyond Blue]

IMO we desperately need another KPD, 1/2x small goal kicking crumbing forward & KPF/2nd ruck (that can help down the line)

#1 Target
Ben McKay (McKay, Weitering & Young would be elite)
1/2x Best small forwards we can get

Do what ever it takes & move on who ever we need, to get it done...

#KPF/2nd
We have Lemmey & O'keeffee are likely talents for this position.
Leave him in the gym for the year... Also hope we are brave enough to give him a game or two, he may be able to play at the level...

My concern with Ben McKay is the injury history - 52 games in 7 years - especially given our recent history with high priced injury prone recruits.

I’m also not sure it’s a desperate need. In Weitering, Young and Durdin we have a pretty good group of key defenders. The issue is the third intercept defender is either Gov or Marchy both of whom are usually injured and then it falls away to Plowman who just isn’t good enough and Kemp who should be stepping up but seems to be going nowhere at the moment. I’m also keen to see what McMahon can do in the reserves as he might be a bargain basement option.

As for key forward/ruck I think Lemney and O’Keefe address that spot even if Tdk moves on at seasons end.

For me it’s a dynamic midfield/forward type we are missing. I’ve suggested a few names in an earlier post such as Hayward, Papley, Gulden, Gresham, Rachele, Hollands, Flanders, Perkins and Henry. I concede that some come at a huge cost and in Gresham’s case some injury concerns as well. Another name worth throwing into the ring is McInerney from Sydney who I think would be more gettable than those other names.

By the end of the season it should be clear to all that Fisher, Martin and Cunners for different reasons aren’t ever going to be that player.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Why is KPD a 'desperate' need?

We have a great 1-2 combo in Weiters-Young. We have serviceable backups with Durdin (KPD) and Plowman (3rd tall).

To me the desperate needs should be to fill spots in the 22 where we have below average output. KPD is certainly not that.

Both can be guns when fit and firing... Though Marchbank & McGovern are hardly on the park...

Would prefer Weitering or Young to become the 3rd tall interceptor, where IMO they play their best football...

Plowman is hardly serviceable and is a depth player at best...
Durdin is relatively an unknow for our defence, looked real good that 1 game for us, got injured and hasn't play again...

My concern with Ben McKay is the injury history - 52 games in 7 years - especially given our recent history with high priced injury prone recruits.

I’m also not sure it’s a desperate need. In Weitering, Young and Durdin we have a pretty good group of key defenders. The issue is the third intercept defender is either Gov or Marchy both of whom are usually injured and then it falls away to Plowman who just isn’t good enough and Kemp who should be stepping up but seems to be going nowhere at the moment. I’m also keen to see what McMahon can do in the reserves as he might be a bargain basement option.

As for key forward/ruck I think Lemney and O’Keefe address that spot even if Tdk moves on at seasons end.

For me it’s a dynamic midfield/forward type we are missing. I’ve suggested a few names in an earlier post such as Hayward, Papley, Gulden, Gresham, Rachele, Hollands, Flanders, Perkins and Henry. I concede that some come at a huge cost and in Gresham’s case some injury concerns as well. Another name worth throwing into the ring is McInerney from Sydney who I think would be more gettable than those other names.

By the end of the season it should be clear to all that Fisher, Martin and Cunners for different reasons aren’t ever going to be that player.

Agree with this...
Would prefer Himmleberg, but feel McKay would be much cheaper (maybe cheaper than most would think, if he wants to try play in a flag with his brother)

We need forwards who can crumb our talls and love the goals...

 

[Juddernaut08]

Both can be guns when fit and firing... Though Marchbank & McGovern are hardly on the park...

Would prefer Weitering or Young to become the 3rd tall interceptor, where IMO they play their best football...

Plowman is hardly serviceable and is a depth player at best...
Durdin is relatively an unknow for our defence, looked real good that 1 game for us, got injured and hasn't play again...



Agree with this...
Would prefer Himmleberg, but feel McKay would be much cheaper (maybe cheaper than most would think, if he wants to try play in a flag with his brother)

We need forwards who can crumb our talls and love the goals...

Yup so a potential marginal upgrade (Weiters/Young to play 3rd tall). Hardly a 'desperate need'.

Our biggest holes are still HFF and FP. If we're going to spend McKay type money as suggested by you, that's a much better upgrade to our best 22.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Yup so a potential marginal upgrade (Weiters/Young to play 3rd tall). Hardly a 'desperate need'.

Our biggest holes are still HFF and FP. If we're going to spend McKay type money as suggested by you, that's a much better upgrade to our best 22.

Yep, would have thought that a KPD (at either big salary cap or draft capital price) was a long way down our list of priorities.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Don't think theres any need for B Mckay. Young will continue to improve with more and more synergy with Weiters. He's more than capable and better than most oppositions 2nd KPD.
Where we fall apart down back is offensive rebound and transition ball movement. Cowan will help with that in time but having another option down back who can generate real drive and free Doc and Saad up is the only 'need' I'd say we have down back.


Our HFF, Wings and FP options are all still mid tier - below average and have been an issue for quite some time now. Name another contender who doesn't have quality across any of those lines. I think they are close to the most important players in footy atm for any team trying to win a flag.

Bris - Bailey, McCarthey, Mccluggage, Ashcroft, Cameron
Geelong - Stengle, Close, Smith, Holmes, Duncan, Henry
Pies - Sidebottom, Daicos, Ginnivan, Elliot, Degoey, Daicos
Melbourne - Pickett, Langdon, Spargo, ANB, Hunter, Fritsch
Sydney - Papley, Gulden, Hayward, Heeney, McCinerny, Florent


Every single player on that list would walk straight into our team and improve it tenfold. Those are the lines we need to improve. KPPs, Inside Mids, HBFs we're more than above the standard.

Acres and Hollands could end up being solutions for us once they adjust to our system and Hollands maturing physically but replace JSOS, Owies, Fisher and Martin with some composed players who can actually rotate up the ground when things aren't going their way up fwd and we'd be contenders. Weakest HFF group of any team competing for finals.

 

[Wickzki]

TDK will extend for two years before looking to sign a bigger, longer contract end of ‘25.
He backs himself in to earn it and the club will have a lot more cap flexibility then.

 

[Faz 2000]

Bris - Bailey

You're spot on.

I would looooooooooooooooooove this guy on our team. Is the perfect example of what we do not have. I would pay him/Brisbane whatever they want if it were a chance.

 

[thylacine60]

When was the last time we traded a player for a player? Was it Grigg for Collins? Just seems people talk about it but don't recall it happening much.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

When was the last time we traded a player for a player? Was it Grigg for Collins? Just seems people talk about it but don't recall it happening much.

You've got a better memory than me, the last time I remember players swapping was when I swapped footy cards.

 

[thylacine60]

You've got a better memory than me, the last time I remember players swapping was when I swapped footy cards.

I've got 2 bruce doull's but if you think I'm swapping either...........

 

[Jeremias]

When was the last time we traded a player for a player? Was it Grigg for Collins? Just seems people talk about it but don't recall it happening much.

Doesn’t happen much any more. That would be the most recent.

Before that…Eccles for Massie and Gallagher for Nelson are the only two I remember, in the early 2000s.

 

[Stamos]

When was the last time we traded a player for a player? Was it Grigg for Collins? Just seems people talk about it but don't recall it happening much.

Tuohy for Smedts, but with picks involved (F1 + #63 for F2).