Preview 2023 Rd 12 Carlton vs Melbourne Friday June 2 7:50PM @ MCG

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Team is in …





IN: Alex Cincotta, Zac Fisher, Lochie O'Brien, Jack Silvagni, Lewis Young
OUT: Corey Durdin (knee), George Hewett (concussion), Ollie Hollands (collarbone), Nic Newman (hamstring), Marc Pittonet (hand), Ed Curnow


www.carltonfc.com.au

AFL team changes: Five ins for Friday

Carlton has named five returnees for Friday night football.
www.carltonfc.com.au www.carltonfc.com.au



Backs:Alex CincottaJacob WeiteringBrodie Kemp
Half-backs:Lewis YoungMitch McGovernAdam Saad
Centreline:Blake AcresPatrick CrippsSam Walsh
Half-forwards:Jesse MotlopCharlie CurnowJack Silvagni
Forwards:Zac FisherHarry McKayMatthew Owies
Followers:Tom De KoningMatthew KennedyAdam Cerra
Interchange:Jordan BoydMatthew CottrellSam Docherty
Lochie O'Brien
Emergencies:Ed CurnowPaddy DowLachie Fogarty
Lachie Plowman
 
jackn said:
Except he's had numerous chances to show he's not up to the level. He's not even up to the level at vfl. Dow different on both counts.
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Unless you want Dow picked as a wingman they are not the same.

LOB was probably about the same level as Dow in the vfl last week, but there was an opening for him.

They have also played a similar among of games.
 
JustaBattler said:
I look at the inclusions this week and see:

Lob for Hollands ( wingman for wingman)
SOJ as second ruck/forward - Voss made it clear about the second ruck duties in his presser ( again Pittonet out and TDK taking on Gawn and Grundy for 4 quarters?)
Newman out: Cincotta in ( again defender for defender)
Durdin out ( Fisher in) I would have preferred Honey - but that is just me

that is 4/4 like for like replacements

now we also add Hewett out and Ed Out

Ed has been playing mostly HFF/wing Hewett has been playing mainly mid.

I see Young as the odd selection here - (possibly will be used as a ruckman in the defensive zone?) but more likely clearing Docherty for mid/wing/HFF rotations or emergency defender - he is versatile - whether he is as good as a rotation as he might be as a HBFer - is another discussion...

BUT

I see Kennedy ( finally) put back in as an on baller - replacing Hewett (IMO Kennedy is the second best on baller at Carlton atm)
Do you prefer Dow over Kennedy?

SO

So ( re Dow - again) do you prefer Dow over Docherty when we already have Cripps and Kennedy ( I am surprised Cripps is playing tbh- after watching what Parker did to his ankle) IMO - Docherty is a better runner, better tackler than Dow ....

RE Fisher/LoB....

If you asked me do I rate Fisher/Lob or Jack - I would say no higher than I rate Dow.....but they can play in positions that Dow doesn't ....

This is why I think Dow doesn't get a gig - he isnt best three on baller at Carlton and isn't a Cerra or Walsh and isn't a wingman and isn't a HFF or HBF..he lacks versatility - we've got better to choose from

the whole bias against Dow is a crock (IMO). If Cripps doesn't make it this week I think you will see Dow play and then you will see what we have seen time and time again - he will get smashed.
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Trying to stick to the status quo killed our season by rd 10. We completely invented a role for Ed Curnow to get him into the side when he has never any shown any ability to play HFF ever in his career and he's 33 years old. Kennedy has never shown any ability to play HBF yet we keep sticking him there. We even thought it was worth playing him against Mihocek. Docherty is a crap mid and we have crippled our back line by pretending otherwise.

The only person Cripps has managed to box out all season for us is Dow apparently and setting up our whole midfield around with him as the centerpiece in 2023 has been a colossal failure. So if our current setup had proven anything at all I'd be okay with horses for courses but it failed long ago and there is no reason to not mix things this up. Hewett has been bog ordinary since he broke his hand (understandable) and Cripps is either playing under duress and/or in shocking form. Against the Dogs for example he managed to go the whole game without managing a single tackle and Caleb Daniel was beating him in contests. Cripps doesn't offer much offensively at the moment and he isn't working at all defensively. For a 195cm bloke he also managed to get zero marks on the board against an undersized Sydney swans too. The whole "Cripps as our only proper inside mid apart from the guy with a broken hand at stoppages" strategy has been depressing to watch. It's bizarre that our season is almost 110% dead and we still haven't addressed it.

I'd rather Dow get rewarded for effort instead of wasting Docherty in positions he isn't suited to and pretending Cripps is doing enough inside. We are playing bottom four level football and done very little to change that at the selection table. We finished 9th last year and the midfield is somehow untouchable? Based on what form?

The whole like for like argument breaks down when you have Young coming in for Hewett somehow? Not to mention the fact that we'd rather give Ed Curnow the sub role over Dow so he can manage awesome games like ONE effective disposal against the Bulldogs. You can't tell me that Dow hasn't deserved to be sub at least compared to a 33 year old Ed Curnow. It reeks of bias when the guy who has been doing everything he can to get selected is getting cucked by Ed Curnow for the sub role.

It really hurts when blokes like Jimmy Bartel who played the sort of football we are crying out for at Carlton are saying it's time for Dow to give up on Carlton.
 

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JustaBattler said:
He is a bog ordinary footballer mate and not big enough to even do accidental damage to an opponent- opposition would run through him like they do Fisher and Lob.
Click to expand...

Okay. But .... we still select Fisher and LOB.

Wake Up What GIF by Laff
 
BM123 said:
Trying to stick to the status quo killed our season by rd 10. We completely invented a role for Ed Curnow to get him into the side when he has never any shown any ability to play HFF ever in his career and he's 33 years old. Kennedy has never shown any ability to play HBF yet we keep sticking him there. We even thought it was worth playing him against Mihocek. Docherty is a crap mid and we have crippled our back line by pretending otherwise.

The only person Cripps has managed to box out all season for us is Dow apparently and setting up our whole midfield around with him as the centerpiece in 2023 has been a colossal failure. So if our current setup had proven anything at all I'd be okay with horses for courses but it failed long ago and there is no reason to not mix things this up. Hewett has been bog ordinary since he broke his hand (understandable) and Cripps is either playing under duress and/or in shocking form. Against the Dogs for example he managed to go the whole game without managing a single tackle and Caleb Daniel was beating him in contests. Cripps doesn't offer much offensively at the moment and he isn't working at all defensively. For a 195cm bloke he also managed to get zero marks on the board against an undersized Sydney swans too. The whole "Cripps as our only proper inside mid apart from the guy with a broken hand at stoppages" strategy has been depressing to watch. It's bizarre that our season is almost 110% dead and we still haven't addressed it.

I'd rather Dow get rewarded for effort instead of wasting Docherty in positions he isn't suited to and pretending Cripps is doing enough inside. We are playing bottom four level football and done very little to change that at the selection table. We finished 9th last year and the midfield is somehow untouchable? Based on what form?

The whole like for like argument breaks down when you have Young coming in for Hewett somehow? Not to mention the fact that we'd rather give Ed Curnow the sub role over Dow so he can manage awesome games like ONE effective disposal against the Bulldogs. You can't tell me that Dow hasn't deserved to be sub at least compared to a 33 year old Ed Curnow. It reeks of bias when the guy who has been doing everything he can to get selected is getting cucked by Ed Curnow for the sub role.

It really hurts when blokes like Jimmy Bartel who played the sort of football we are crying out for at Carlton are saying it's time for Dow to give up on Carlton.
Click to expand...

I know that if Dow came in and made a mistake that cost us a game, a lot of people would point and shout 'see, that's why'. However, we are 4-1-6 currently and Dow hasn't played. Who was to blame for those turnovers leading to losses?
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
I know that if Dow came in and made a mistake that cost us a game, a lot of people would point and shout 'see, that's why'. However, we are 4-1-6 currently and Dow hasn't played. Who was to blame for those turnovers leading to losses?
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Probably the same guys who know they can play as poorly as they like and never have to worry about being dropped. Players on superstar salaries who we need to be consistent as possible so we can build a side around them.

For a club constantly talking about accountability it's laughable how much leeway all of the players on bigger contracts have been given. No point talking about standards if we never enforce them. In regards to turn overs I remember how a lot of the momentum that the Bulldogs buried us late with started after Cripps no look hacked it off the boot into the corridor straight to a Bulldogs player while he was under no pressure in our d50 and surrounded by team mates. A game we were winning in spite of him in the first place but he gave the Dogs a freebie to get them going again.

The kind of play where you just want this player earning a million dollars per year to just let himself get carried instead of taking the whole team down with him...
 
Looking at our outs, Newman is the biggest loss based on 23 form

Apart from Dutchy, who needed a rest, others will be covered. durds and Hew have done very little this Yr.

Asking alot from tdk and SOS (and Young and H at either end as back up) but we need plan to minimise the loss in the ruck contests

Dow for sub or even a late change could be the go
 
Blue1980 said:
Unless you want Dow picked as a wingman they are not the same.

LOB was probably about the same level as Dow in the vfl last week, but there was an opening for him.

They have also played a similar among of games.
Click to expand...
Amazing fact sharing, thanks for pointing it out. I will delete the part where I asked for dow to play wing, as soon as I can find it. I compared the chances two blokes have had after another poster said they will share the same fate.

Still looking for the dow wing part mate, give me a sec, will delete very soon.
 

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BM123 said:
We just recently watched Heeney push off Cripps with ease at stoppages. Mcgovern couldn't win a contest against Papley. We got plenty of examples of poor physicality in the seniors. I wish Carlton considered poor physicality as a reason to keep someone out of the side.

Least Dow is trying to get selected unlike Lob and Fisher.
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We are playing 2020's fast, mobile era AFL, not 1980's rugby style.
You need maybe 2 strong bodies in the guts and a ruckman who blocks and tackles. Everyone else needs to be fast, good-rapid ball deliverers that create quality F50 entries.
I like that we have only 2 small forwards this week and 1 less inside mid gorilla(George), just need to leave Ed in the VFL permanently now.
Can't see a combo of Cripps/Kennedy as HFF working, too slow, opposition defensive rebounds would go through the roof.
 
Coops93 said:
Is Kennedy an above average mid really? Stats suggest he's pretty average. And by that I mean actually average, not the Ausralian meaning of average being poor.

Doc though hasn't really panned out on ball. Play him back, don't mind the odd spurt of 5-10 mins on ball but mostly should stay back.
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Kennedy doesn’t get a stat for his most selfless & valuable role - the crash test dummy. When we are playing well he invariably becomes the link player who gets absolutely smashed by hospital handballs/kicks - he still gets an effective disposal & carry’s on. You get bang for buck with his disposals, he loses very few contests & his tackles stick - none of that appears in the stat sheet.
We are just using him very very poorly - he’s mid/fwd not mid/back
 
What we need more than ever is tough, brutal encounter where we just find a way to will ourselves to a character building win.
In sport in Italy whether it be soccer or cycling, a motivational term often used by coaches to players is "grinta" which translates to "grit". I found this sport related definition which I think is quite apt.

"We define grit ("grinta") as perseverance and a passion for long-term goals. Grit involves working strenuously toward challenges, maintaining effort and interest over the years despite ongoing setbacks, adversity, and plateaus. The spirited individual approaches success like a marathon; its advantage is endurance. While disappointment or boredom signals to others that it's time to change trajectory and cut losses, the spirited individual holds on over time"

Grinta ci vuole ragazzi, dai!

Go Blues
 
Fabab said:
Many times over previous years we have been absolutely putrid but this season seems worse as coming into the season we had hope and expectations.
I am sure if we continue being as bad our membership numbers are going to drop big time next year.
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Got a phone call from Carlton membership department yesterday. Wanting to give me caps, scarves and free tix to games. Even though I'm a member. They even said to me that they would again call in a few weeks to offer more tix.
 
Trying to match an opponent's clear advantage/ strength is pretty stupid. It's a mistake the Aussie cricket team makes every time they go to India and one Carlton makes whenever pitto or TDK are unfit by selecting jack as a part time ruckman. There is no logic to throwing jack or young (whoever has been selected as '2nd ruck') to the wolves this game. Such a waste of resources. Big H can and should just chop out. Cripps could just to rest TDK. Hate picking someone just for a made up 'position'

How bout focus on our strength. Fit the extra contested mid in so it doesn't heckin'g matter if their ruck wins more taps (pick Travis head your most in form player not leave him out cause derr match India's line up). Such a common mc outsmarting themselves error

3 peat Hawthorn stopped bothering with clearances and didn't try to match teams there they just beat them everywhere else.
 
BM123 said:
Probably the same guys who know they can play as poorly as they like and never have to worry about being dropped. Players on superstar salaries who we need to be consistent as possible so we can build a side around them.

For a club constantly talking about accountability it's laughable how much leeway all of the players on bigger contracts have been given. No point talking about standards if we never enforce them. In regards to turn overs I remember how a lot of the momentum that the Bulldogs buried us late with started after Cripps no look hacked it off the boot into the corridor straight to a Bulldogs player while he was under no pressure in our d50 and surrounded by team mates. A game we were winning in spite of him in the first place but he gave the Dogs a freebie to get them going again.

The kind of play where you just want this player earning a million dollars per year to just let himself get carried instead of taking the whole team down with him...
Click to expand...

There is no argument from me regarding the displayed 'form' of Cripps in particular - none zero, nada. Poor leadership and diabolical execution on many occasions. No argument from me re Ed Curnow not being up to playing on ball anymore either - and mostly he hasn't been. Ive also stated that I dont rate FIsher or Lob in particular and dont rate Jack as a third forward. No argument from me either regarding Kennedy being wasted on a HBF- whats all that about?

But none of that has anything to do with DOw being a litmus test on Voss's selection integrity - NOR (IMO) a testament to Voss's poor game plan. His game plan is being played by 3/4 of the competition - it is the current list as a whole that is unable to execute and I've already posted the key stats to prove what the issue has been.

I dont think any one player will be able to see Carlton kick 4 more goals a game - Harry is easiest potential source of half of it - but we lack the small forward, flanker and mid contributions that other teams seem to be able to draw on. None of that is on Voss or his game plan - that is all on the players.
 
ajb72 said:
My first point of interest is going to be when the ball is directed to McKay the first time, and how he attacks the ball.

If he puts in some lame arse, half hearted attempt, I will feel for the lack of expected standards this club stands for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
At this point, if his confidence is so low I wouldn't be surprised that he doesn't even mark the ball, knowing that the end result will be that he will have to take a shot on goal.
 
I see this as a huge game for our coaching group. I recently heard on the radio that dees losses have come from oppos going around Lever and May with more precise f50 entries.

If we get the first clearance of the game and bomb it long and one of those 2 get the intercept... It's game over and maybe for Voss too.
 
lilJeffyG said:
Got a phone call from Carlton membership department yesterday. Wanting to give me caps, scarves and free tix to games. Even though I'm a member. They even said to me that they would again call in a few weeks to offer more tix.
Click to expand...
Yeah the club knows how quickly this season is destroying the good will of the supporter base, I cancelled my direct debit for next year, after last Friday's game, and I've now had three phone calls about it.

Not saying I won't be signed up next year, just that it'll be on my terms, not theirs.

Members own the club and there are very few ways to show the club how you feel.

Lastly remember the poor buggers from the membership dept aren't on the field or in the coaching staff so don't be a prick to them.
 
As Dow is more than likely the sub I don't get the outrage about selections. At the start of the year everyone on here was banging on about our depth. Out of necessity we've brought in familiar faces and people still unhappy. Perhaps you over rated the list lol
 
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