Preview 2023 Rd 2 Carlton vs Geelong Thursday March 23 7:20PM @ MCG

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …

One (forced) change:

OUT: Hewett (hand)
IN: Durdin

AFL team selection: Blues make one change

Corey Durdin will return for Round 2.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Backs:	Nic Newman	Lewis Young	Lachie Cowan
Half-backs:	Sam Docherty	Jacob Weitering	Mitch McGovern
Centreline:	Blake Acres	Patrick Cripps	Ed Curnow
Half-forwards:	Jack Martin	Zac Fisher	Jack Silvagni
Forwards:	Corey Durdin	Charlie Curnow	Harry McKay
Followers:	Tom De Koning	Adam Cerra	Matthew Kennedy
Interchange:	Ollie Hollands	Jesse Motlop	Matthew Owies
	Adam Saad
Emergencies:	Josh Honey	Lochie O'Brien	Marc Pittonet
	Lachie Plowman

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Rumour swirling around that he has a busted hand - watch this space


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I’m looking for the swirl - anyone know where I can find the swirl ?

 

[Aphrodite]

I’m looking for the swirl - anyone know where I can find the swirl ?

Most likely Facebook/Twitter fan pages.

 

[Coops93]

Rumour swirling around that he has a busted hand - watch this space


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I believe he had a hand written note from his Mum to try and get out of training today. The club got suspicious when "she" apologised for the poor hand writing as she busted whatever hand it is she writes with.

 

[Red_man2008]

Rumour mill is in overdrive, hearing that G Hewitt has a busted hand, possibly a break but a watch this space…. anyone heard anything? Would give Dow an opportunity if this is the case.


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Will still play

 

[Jimmae]

Dow is surely in the team this week and not just as a sub, they can't be that belligerent. It was an easy opposition at times, but he did a lot really well and he did it to a good standard. Physically he seems to have reversed out of the bulking they tried to get him to do under Teague while retaining some of the upper body strength.

The zip is back in a big way, and he wants to work on his forward craft. That's huge for us.

SPS DOW LOB FISHER CUNINGHAM PHILP STOCKER KEMP SETTERFIELD KENNEDY CARROLL

not a great ROI is it? Who was the main architect of this 'investment' ? - Voss?

Ah, clearly not given those names arrived between 2015 and 2019, and I'd like you to highlight where you feel I've stated this.

I'm also happy with all of those names under the right circumstances, but right there you've got 10 players we wanted to play as stoppage mids, including 6 inside mids, and yet we don't have a gamestyle to deal with the inevitable consequences of that.

So off we sent 7 of those players to different parts of the ground, of which only 1 ever came back. For example, in what ****ing world do you genuinely believe that we couldn't convince Stocker to try getting leaner to enhance his game?

The Club was able to secure the services of Hewett and Cerra - one a developed genuine AFL midfielder and the other a developing midfielder to plug the hole that sees so many vaunted high picks not cut the mustard in AFL for one reason or another.

Poor Kennedy - cops a bollocking from Jimmae at every opportunity - for being last man standing out of that lot ( I still have hopes for Cuningham and Carrol) and Fisher is being given every opportunity to become a running linking high half forward...


So it seems that the ordinary ( me being generous here) return on investment from the above list of names is all on Voss according to Jim - because he hasn't shown the players any video footage...

I am not a buyer of the argument.

Austin has been on teh back foot since he arrived trying to plug holes in the list sans the draft/trade collateral that the previous bloke got to splash around.

Saad and Williams were about covering for Docherrty's two ACL's and other health issues- a bonus that Docherty has come back - in line with Charlie making it back from 3 years off.

McGovern isn't on Voss , Marchbank and Cuninggham isn't in on Voss- the latest Cuningham set back is just a poke in the eye to coaches and supporters and team mates. Durdin/Walsh isn't on Voss - both valuable starting players...

I find it a tad strange to see a creeping blossoming of anti Voss feeling in the pearls of wisdom thrown around - as if game plan sans personel to execute is viable. Equally strange is the lack of perspective and context around some of the draftees some of the trades and the current list portfolio.

For the sake of continuing debate- I would have given Murphy a fond farewell after his 250th ie two years before he finally retired on 300 games because that was the agenda for Teague - 300 games to Murphy - all that time lost to developing younger players for AFL duties and the cap that could have should have been better spent elsewhere. Perhaps Eddie Betts another Teague call along with McGovern were also big reaches- especially given contract lengths...

The move from lower middling bottom 4 wasn't achieved on the back of SOS list management as far as mids goes - that is for sure. Where Carlton is at right now is on the back of Cripps /Hewett/Kennedy and Cerra - nto a bunch of phony 'better runners' that don't exist.

We have a platform to build on from here much more solid than it was even two years ago.

There is a few shocking takes spiced into what is the weak justification for a series of risk averse and self-loathing list management strategies, most notably under the current recruitment regime. The more influence Agresta has had, the more we've tried to reinvent the game to pick those who win the things we want to on the averages, without any regard for how that performs under elite pressure/in finals, or what that is surrounded by that could potentially be enabling it.

And in an ironic twist, we are looking decidedly average.

But beyond that I'm going to refer you to an early comment you made in this thread 2 pages earlier:

You raise a number of issues here best discussed in a different thread - this is a match thread.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Most likely Facebook/Twitter fan pages.

I was being facetious apologies…

 

[Aphrodite]

I was being facetious apologies…

Never apologise

 

[Blue since 72]

Half forward is our big problem.
It’s no surprise, many here identified this going into the latest trade/draft period.
Martin is a major disappointment, he is in the prime time of his career and should be a weapon but almost always MIA.
Honey and Cuningham appear to possess the necessary attributes but just don’t get involved enough on the odd occasions they’re actually on the park.
Fisher is clever enough but small and doesn’t have the power game required for this position these days.
The strengths and weaknesses of Silvagni’s game have been done to death.
Then there’s Kemp.
What the hell’s going on with Kemp ?
He’s got size, power and speed but without explanation, he vanishes for a month
If the coaches/match committee can somehow manufacture a positive in this area it will be a huge help to the cause going forward …

Couldn't agree more.

I want to drop Fisher and Martin for the next game and people are saying "it's only one game" but it's not, particularly in Martin's case, it's a whole career.

I'm long over being mesmerized by the one or two freaky things he does now and then and I absolutely can't see how the MC justify Martin's selection over a Carroll for example or even someone like Honey, it's purely perception of a quality contribution and not based on any factual evidence.

Fisher has given a lot more than Martin but 6 disposals in 1 quarter and then 1 for the remaining 3 from an experienced player should draw scrutiny. Of the two I could live with Fish going around again but not Martin.

Personally I'd like to give Cotts a go at HF when he's fit but for the next game why not give JC or Honey a shot, in all seriousness what would we lose?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Pitto is ripe, he'll play.
Carroll, by the look of the praccy video is less inspiring.

 

[Coops93]

What other role could we play Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

in to get him going? I've mentioned before that at the Suns he wasn't a forward but rather a loose intercepting HB/Winger & impact on baller/forward for stints. We've obviously pushed him forward but he's shown over a fairly long period of time now that he doesn't have enough impact up there.

I don't really know of a position on our team now where we can throw him. He seems to have lost his impact ability on ball, and we're pretty set when it comes to HBFs and I think the wingers role these days has moved on from how he played there back at the Suns. Definitely wouldn't back him to have the tank to keep up with modern wingmen.

I don't really see a spot for him now.

 

[Jimmae]

Couldn't agree more.

I want to drop Fisher and Martin for the next game and people are saying "it's only one game" but it's not, particularly in Martin's case, it's a whole career.

I'm long over being mesmerized by the one or two freaky things he does now and then and I absolutely can't see how the MC justify Martin's selection over a Carroll for example or even someone like Honey, it's purely perception of a quality contribution and not based on any factual evidence.

Fisher has given a lot more than Martin but 6 disposals in 1 quarter and then 1 for the remaining 3 from an experienced player should draw scrutiny. Of the two I could live with Fish going around again but not Martin.

Personally I'd like to give Cotts a go at HF when he's fit but for the next game why not give JC or Honey a shot, in all seriousness what would we lose?

My take is that neither Fisher or Martin were fit enough to play that game, but Martin ran it out better. Fisher should go back to the VFL and likely be pressing for selection after 2 games, probably replacing Martin.

Owies needs to go back there and find a position where he isn't left so exposed at AFL level.

 

[Burgers45]

Cats supporter/caller to SEN, from inside info, told Dwayne, as well as Stewart, sdk & Hawkins are doubtful this week. Let's hope it's good mail.

 

[JustaBattler]

Dow is surely in the team this week and not just as a sub, they can't be that belligerent. It was an easy opposition at times, but he did a lot really well and he did it to a good standard. Physically he seems to have reversed out of the bulking they tried to get him to do under Teague while retaining some of the upper body strength.

The zip is back in a big way, and he wants to work on his forward craft. That's huge for us.


Ah, clearly not given those names arrived between 2015 and 2019, and I'd like you to highlight where you feel I've stated this.

I'm also happy with all of those names under the right circumstances, but right there you've got 10 players we wanted to play as stoppage mids, including 6 inside mids, and yet we don't have a gamestyle to deal with the inevitable consequences of that.

So off we sent 7 of those players to different parts of the ground, of which only 1 ever came back. For example, in what ******* world do you genuinely believe that we couldn't convince Stocker to try getting leaner to enhance his game?

There is a few shocking takes spiced into what is the weak justification for a series of risk averse and self-loathing list management strategies, most notably under the current recruitment regime. The more influence Agresta has had, the more we've tried to reinvent the game to pick those who win the things we want to on the averages, without any regard for how that performs under elite pressure/in finals, or what that is surrounded by that could potentially be enabling it.

And in an ironic twist, we are looking decidedly average.

But beyond that I'm going to refer you to an early comment you made in this thread 2 pages earlier:

Once again wrong thread and this time my 'bad'- I thought I was posting in the LM thread- this is somewhat wasted as I personally think a number of your points ( sans hyperbolic prose license) are interesting. Basically, what kind of game plan is more likely than not to win against who and when - and what does that imply about the current player resources available to execute same.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Cats supporter/caller to SEN, from inside info, told Dwayne, as well as Stewart, sdk & Hawkins are doubtful this week. Let's hope it's good mail.

Caller's name was Andrew from Parkville

 

[carlton_99]

 

[Benaly28]

Rumour mill is in overdrive, hearing that G Hewitt has a busted hand, possibly a break but a watch this space…. anyone heard anything? Would give Dow an opportunity if this is the case.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Looked fine on Friday morning having breakfast in Altona.


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[Pommylovescarlton]

Thanks ladies and gents. Hope you enjoyed! Tried to add a "wittle" Pommy flair to the preview!

Also important to note I included Dow as my super sub, so should end the rumours that I hate my son's favourite player

Go blues excited for this one. As I don't know about anyone else but I'm hungry for footy

 

[TENACIOUS]

Have we ever actually played TDK as a primary KP forward that 2nd rucks?
Forward 60% - Ruck 30% - Bench 10%

From my memory seems we've always played him as a ruck that rests for small periods forward.
Forward 25% - Ruck 50% - Bench 25%

I'd like to see Pittonet come in and TDK take JSOSs role for a few weeks...

TDK & Harry can push up the wings and Curnow can stay forward...

HF - Durdin - TDK - Martin
FF - Curnow - Harry - Motlop
7th F - Fisher/Honey

SUB - JSOS

 

[thebluenewdeal]

Rumour mill is in overdrive, hearing that G Hewitt has a busted hand, possibly a break but a watch this space…. anyone heard anything? Would give Dow an opportunity if this is the case.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I saw the incident in the game, I think it was in the third quarter. Was grimacing and checking his hand out after trying to win a free kick. If it is broken then he’ll be out for a 3-4 weeks I presume.

 

[Burgers45]

I saw the incident in the game, I think it was in the third quarter. Was grimacing and checking his hand out after trying to win a free kick. If it is broken then he’ll be out for a 3-4 weeks I presume.

Can't be too bad if he can have 4 tackles in the last quarter. Hopefully it's not broken.

 

[Countryblueswitnotattoos]

What other role could we play Jack Martin in to get him going? I've mentioned before that at the Suns he wasn't a forward but rather a loose intercepting HB/Winger & impact on baller/forward for stints. We've obviously pushed him forward but he's shown over a fairly long period of time now that he doesn't have enough impact up there.

I don't really know of a position on our team now where we can throw him. He seems to have lost his impact ability on ball, and we're pretty set when it comes to HBFs and I think the wingers role these days has moved on from how he played there back at the Suns. Definitely wouldn't back him to have the tank to keep up with modern wingmen.

I don't really see a spot for him now.

Tactical Sub? Throw him forward half-way through the 3rd.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Tom Stewart is a massive loss for the Cats. He always carves us up.

 

[Blue since 72]

My take is that neither Fisher or Martin were fit enough to play that game, but Martin ran it out better. Fisher should go back to the VFL and likely be pressing for selection after 2 games, probably replacing Martin.

Owies needs to go back there and find a position where he isn't left so exposed at AFL level.

Strange for Fish, I hadn't heard of any issues during pre-season to suggest he hasn't done the work? Perhaps someone was sent to him after his fast start but I wasn't at the ground so wouldn't know.

Martin needs to go now and I'm hoping Durds comes in for Owies, don't believe we need 3 smalls in the same team.

HF is a problem that needs to be sorted pronto and at the very least some other option tried (for more than 1 or 2 games) instead of the same old names.

And while I'm at it can they leave Harry and Mots closer to goal please. Must have been a coaching directive for H to get up the ground because he did it all game but it was a **** up. Send JSOS if you want a tall taking marks on the wing.

Both Harry and Charlie need to stay closer to goal where they scare the shit out of oppo defences. Poor use of our main goal kicking targets.

 

[Benaly28]

This must be the game we beat them,never get a better chance need to be mentally switched on from the beginning or we’ll get mauled.


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[Beyond Blue]

SPS DOW LOB FISHER CUNINGHAM PHILP STOCKER KEMP SETTERFIELD KENNEDY CARROLL

not a great ROI is it? Who was the main architect of this 'investment' ? - Voss?

The Club was able to secure the services of Hewett and Cerra - one a developed genuine AFL midfielder and the other a developing midfielder to plug the hole that sees so many vaunted high picks not cut the mustard in AFL for one reason or another.

Poor Kennedy - cops a bollocking from Jimmae at every opportunity - for being last man standing out of that lot ( I still have hopes for Cuningham and Carrol) and Fisher is being given every opportunity to become a running linking high half forward...


So it seems that the ordinary ( me being generous here) return on investment from the above list of names is all on Voss according to Jim - because he hasn't shown the players any video footage...

I am not a buyer of the argument.

Austin has been on teh back foot since he arrived trying to plug holes in the list sans the draft/trade collateral that the previous bloke got to splash around.

Saad and Williams were about covering for Docherrty's two ACL's and other health issues- a bonus that Docherty has come back - in line with Charlie making it back from 3 years off.

McGovern isn't on Voss , Marchbank and Cuninggham isn't in on Voss- the latest Cuningham set back is just a poke in the eye to coaches and supporters and team mates. Durdin/Walsh isn't on Voss - both valuable starting players...

I find it a tad strange to see a creeping blossoming of anti Voss feeling in the pearls of wisdom thrown around - as if game plan sans personel to execute is viable. Equally strange is the lack of perspective and context around some of the draftees some of the trades and the current list portfolio.

For the sake of continuing debate- I would have given Murphy a fond farewell after his 250th ie two years before he finally retired on 300 games because that was the agenda for Teague - 300 games to Murphy - all that time lost to developing younger players for AFL duties and the cap that could have should have been better spent elsewhere. Perhaps Eddie Betts another Teague call along with McGovern were also big reaches- especially given contract lengths...

The move from lower middling bottom 4 wasn't achieved on the back of SOS list management as far as mids goes - that is for sure. Where Carlton is at right now is on the back of Cripps /Hewett/Kennedy and Cerra - nto a bunch of phony 'better runners' that don't exist.

We have a platform to build on from here much more solid than it was even two years ago.

Good post. I completely agree. Our biggest area of improvement at the moment is development of younger players and our reluctance to turnover injury prone and underachieving players. IMO the coaching is fine. If Thursday was anything to go by Voss has added new elements to our game plan, most notably we are actually capable of defending opposition rebound and working the ball down the ground once the opposition have got numbers back.

On the weekend Carlton v Richmond was the best contested and most tactical of all the games -I watched them all - much to my family’s dismay. Richmond tried to take our preferred game plan away from us and we tried to take their preferred game plan away from them. The Tigers couldn’t score nearly as heavily as they have against us in years gone by from transition and they denied us scoring as heavily from stoppages as we did round 1 last year.

This week is another challenge against a seasoned well drilled team who will try to do the same and did so successfully last time we played them. Of course there will be some tweaks required because Geelong have historically relied on controlling possession more than Richmond have, although again we saw Geelong evolve their game to be more attacking last year. I’m hopeful we will see the players and coaches with a plan to combat and exploit Geelong.